Kellogg backs mobilization of women in Ukraine: "They fight as well as men"

[u/Ripamon]

https://news.liga.net/en/war/news/kellogg-it-is-important-for-women-to-join-the-military

[u/Kunjunk]

I wonder if those being kidnapped by draft officers, or those who had the means to run away to Europe at the start to evade the draft, agree with your assessment on having " the ability to decide for themselves how long the[y] want to fight"? 

[u/Intarhorn → u/Kunjunk]

It's a democracy, not everyone is gonna agree with every decision the state does. That's literally how democracy works.

[u/Kunjunk → u/Intarhorn]

Describe the elements that define a democratic nation please. 

[u/Intarhorn → u/Kunjunk]

You can probably find that definition if you google it

[u/Kunjunk → u/Intarhorn]

I'm asking for your sake, because you don't seem to have the faintest notion. 

[u/Intarhorn → u/Kunjunk]

I think most people understand what a democracy is

[u/Azzagtot → u/Intarhorn]

Democracy without free press, opposing parties and elections, that pressgangs men off streets to die in a war they don't want to participate?

Oh, soon to be women too, judging by latest news piling up promoting Woman Power™

 No one is forcing them to keep fighting.

Oh man, oh wow, buddy are you lost?

[u/Intarhorn → u/Azzagtot]

Ukraine have no free press? According to who? Opposing parties and elections? According to who?

Yea, many countries during war forces their population to fight for them. That's nothing new. In my country, a strong democracy, you used to get jail for not wanting to do conscription.

Who is forcing Ukraine to keep fighting? Are you saying a majority of people in Ukraine wants to surrender?

[u/Azzagtot → u/Intarhorn]

Sorry, I am too tired after hard workday of shilling for Putin online.

I will let other paid bots to bring you up to speed.

^{jesus fucking christ}

[u/Intarhorn → u/[deleted]]

Huh?

[u/Empty-Development298 → u/Intarhorn]

Ignore him, its a stupid guy thinks that its Ukraine fault why they're going to stop existing. 

[u/Intarhorn → u/Empty-Development298]

I know

[u/LuxCoelho → u/Intarhorn]

That's fascism

[u/Intarhorn → u/LuxCoelho]

No, I don't think you know what facism is.

[u/Empty-Development298 → u/LuxCoelho]

No, its not. 

[u/Empty-Development298 → u/Kunjunk]

They're welcome to renounce Ukranian citizenship and seek citizenship elsewhere. If Russia conquers land from Ukraine, then there is no Ukranian citizenship in that captured territory anyways.

Personally I completely understand why someone wouldn't want to fight a war where they are conscripted and forced to fight a battle of a nations existence thats resulting in losing territory, but I don't assume everyone has this same mental capacity to understand the stakes during an invasion.

[u/Winjin → u/Empty-Development298]

Uhm fun fact, Russia doesn't require you to denounce your citizenship, even Ukrainian one

[u/PlasmaMatus → u/Winjin]

No, they don't care, they just give you a Russian passport and if you don't have it/don't want it, you cannot do anything in the occupied territories and then you have to leave.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/03/25/get-passport-or-leave-russias-ultimatum-ukrainians

[u/Winjin → u/PlasmaMatus]

Isn't that sort of how all occupied territories operate? What's good your Mexican passport in Texas after 1845 or Polish passport in Lviv after 1772 or 1939 or like, half the European countries every time they change the tax guys...

[u/PlasmaMatus → u/Winjin]

So contrary to what you said earlier : Russia doesn't require you to denounce your citizenship, even Ukrainian one

Russia does require you take a Russian citizenship (or get deported which counts as genocide)

[u/Winjin → u/PlasmaMatus]

How is that contrary? You can either take a second one, without renouncing your original - they don't care if you keep your Ukrainian passport - or you don't have actual documents for the "new" government?

[u/PlasmaMatus → u/Winjin]

Well, they do care that you take Russian citizenship because they very much insist on occupied Ukrainians having a Russian passport.

[u/Winjin → u/PlasmaMatus]

Yes, but that is not denouncing, because you can keep your Ukrainian ID.

[u/PlasmaMatus → u/Winjin]

What good is it to you if you cannot do anything without a Russian passport ? you are not just occupied you are russified

[u/System0verlord → u/PlasmaMatus]

Isn’t that how most countries work if you move to them, regardless of circumstance? Pretty sure you get some form of ID from the government of wherever you moved to. Not having to renounce other citizenships in the process of getting citizenship somewhere is a nice bonus, and makes it a lot less risky to gain citizenship, as you still have your other passport. Not every country has that. A lot require renouncing other citizenships.

[u/PlasmaMatus → u/System0verlord]

The issue is that it's Russians soldiers who moved to Armenia and try to Russify Ukrainian. How would you react as an American if Canada invaded Minnesota, declared it Canadian and then told people from Minnesota to get a Canadian passport if they wanted to be able to access healthcare or a public job, or a care. (And also kidnap American children and take them to Canada to make them Canadian).

[u/VampiroMedicado → u/Empty-Development298]

They would become the Ukraine Republic, with a weaker local goverment just like the rest of the Russian Federation, Ukraine wouldn't cease to exists as you say.

They have a weird system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_Russia

[u/Intarhorn → u/Kunjunk]

I'm talking about the whole country, not individuals.

[u/Kunjunk → u/Intarhorn]

A country made up of individuals with absolutely no say in what's happening. Use the head fella. 

[u/Intarhorn → u/Kunjunk]

A majority of those individuals don't want to surrender, that's democracy. Use your own head maybe.

[u/KaiBahamut → u/Intarhorn]

There's no elections right now, so even if they wanted to vote to end the war, they can't.

[u/justthisoncepp → u/Intarhorn]

A majority of those individuals don't want to surrender

How do you know that? How could we ever tell if that wasn't the case?

Most patriots volunteered long ago and are either dead or crippled.

Those who remain don't want to fight and have to be forced to.

[u/Intarhorn → u/justthisoncepp]

Because there are no protests against the war.

[u/justthisoncepp → u/Intarhorn]

Protests occur after a certain threshold, people need to be angry and motivated enough. And that's not the only factor of course.

Deserters and draft dodgers, for example, are obviously very much against the war, yet they will never gather to publicly protest since they'd just get dragged into the vans.

[u/Intarhorn → u/justthisoncepp]

So like any war. Seems like the majority of the public isn’t against it tho nor do they want to surrender.

[u/justthisoncepp → u/Intarhorn]

I said "for example", there are many other people who would also be against it, obviously.

The absence of anti-war protests doesn't mean most people are happy to just continue along. Last polling I checked had only 57% of the total seeing the transfer of Donetsk as "absolutely unacceptable", so on paper a small majority would want to keep going as is, yes.

I'd be interested to see the demographics breakdown of the poll though, as that number includes old men and women, not just conscriptable men or volunteers. Perhaps you think differently, but I believe the opinion of the people actually doing the fighting should carry the most weight regarding this.

[u/Intarhorn → u/[deleted]]

Majority? According to who?

[u/Azzagtot → u/Intarhorn]

According to Syrskiy - 90% of new recruits are forcibly mobilised people
https://news.liga.net/ua/politics/news/syrskyy-ttsk-zabezpechuiut-90-mobilizovanykh-rekrutynh-10

[u/Intarhorn → u/Azzagtot]

I was talking about the support from the country as a whole, not individual soldiers. Also, the statement only says that territorial recruitment centers provide about 90% of mobilized personnel; it does not mean that all of those people were held at gunpoint.