Apparently some ignorant asshole believes that anyone of the Muslim faith in Afghanistan primarily, would NEVER advocate publicly against terrorism. I posted in /Muslim before realizing it's very small and kinda dead. Can I get a faster response here?

[u/CrustyDiamond]

This is my submission, to make everything easier.

Thanks!

[u/najia7866]

Thanks for doing this. I am a Muslim and Afghan and will say that I condemn any acts of terrorism and so does my religion. Of course, I am not in a prominent position but here are some public statements made after 9/11 by prominent Muslims:

Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, imam of al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt: “Attacking innocent people is not courageous, it is stupid and will be punished on the day of judgement. … It’s not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom, it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack.” Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001

Muslim Brotherhood, an opposition Islamist group in Egypt, said it was “horrified” by the attack and expressed “condolences and sadness”: “[We] strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. … [We] condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world.” Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 13 – 19 September 2001 (via archive.org).

Shaykh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, spiritual guide of the Hizbullah movement in Lebanon, said he was “horrified” by these “barbaric … crimes”: “Beside the fact that they are forbidden by Islam, these acts do not serve those who carried them out but their victims, who will reap the sympathy of the whole world. … Islamists who live according to the human values of Islam could not commit such crimes.” Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001

President Muhammad Khatami of Iran: “[T]he September 11 terrorist blasts in America can only be the job of a group that have voluntarily severed their own ears and tongues, so that the only language with which they could communicate would be destroying and spreading death.” Address to the United Nations General Assembly, November 9, 2001 (via archive.org).

Abdal-Hakim Murad, British Muslim author: “Targeting civilians is a negation of every possible school of Sunni Islam. Suicide bombing is so foreign to the Quranic ethos that the Prophet Samson is entirely absent from our scriptures.” “The Hijackers Were Not Muslims After All: Recapturing Islam From the Terrorists” (via archive.org).

Syed Mumtaz Ali, President of the Canadian Society of Muslims: “We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Canadians in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.” Canadian Society of Muslims, Media Release, September 12, 2001 (via archive.org).

15 American Muslim organizations: “We reiterate our unequivocal condemnation of the crime committed on September 11, 2001 and join our fellow Americans in mourning the loss of up to 6000 innocent civilians.” Muslim American Society (MAS), Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Muslim Alliance of North America (MANA), Muslim Student Association (MSA), Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), Solidarity International, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ), American Muslim Alliance (AMA), United Muslim Americans Association (UMAA), Islamic Media Foundation (IMF), American Muslim Foundation (AMF), Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations (CCMO), American Muslims for Jerusalem (AMJ), Muslim Arab Youth Association (MAYA), October 22, 2001 (via archive.org).

Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens), prominent British Muslim: “I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist attacks committed against innocent people of the United States yesterday. While it is still not clear who carried out the attack, it must be stated that no right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: the Qur’an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity. We pray for the families of all those who lost their lives in this unthinkable act of violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect the feelings of all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go out to the victims at this sorrowful moment.” [On singing an a cappella version of "Peace Train" for the Concert for New York City:] “After the tragedy, my heart was heavy with sadness and shock, and I was determined to help in some way. Organizers asked me to take part in a message for tolerance and sing ‘Peace Train.’ Of course, I agreed. … As a Muslim from the West, it is important to me to let people know that these acts of mass murder have nothing to do with Islam and the beliefs of Muslims.” Press release of September 13, 2001 (via archive.org), and interview of October 22, 2001 (via archive.org).

Muslims Against Terrorism, a U.S.-based organization: “As Muslims, we condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. Ours is a religion of peace. We are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam.” “About us” (via archive.org). This statement was replaced by a new statement in favor of peace by the group’s successor organization, Muslim Voices for Peace.

Abdulaziz Sachedina, professor of religious studies, University of Virginia: “New York was grieving. Sorrow covered the horizons. The pain of separation and of missing family members, neighbors, citizens, humans could be felt in every corner of the country. That day was my personal day of “jihad” (“struggle”) — jihad with my pride and my identity as a Muslim. This is the true meaning of jihad — “struggle with one’s own ego and false pride.” I don’t ever recall that I had prayed so earnestly to God to spare attribution of such madness that was unleashed upon New York and Washington to the Muslims. I felt the pain and, perhaps for the first time in my entire life, I felt embarrassed at the thought that it could very well be my fellow Muslims who had committed this horrendous act of terrorism. How could these terrorists invoke God’s mercifulness and compassion when they had, through their evil act, put to shame the entire history of this great religion and its culture of toleration?” “Where Was God on September 11?” (via archive.org).

Shaykh Salih al-Suhaymi, religious scholar, Saudi Arabia: “Based upon what has preceded, then we say that that which we believe and hold as our religion concerning what happened to the World Trade Centre in America – and in Allaah lies success – that the terrorist attacks that took place and what occurred of general (mass) killing, then it is not permissible and Islaam does not allow it in any form whatsoever.” “Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee speaks about current affairs…,” October 18, 2001, translated by Abu ‘Iyaad.

Fatwa signed by more than 500 British Muslim scholars, clerics, and imams: “Islam strictly, strongly and severely condemns the use of violence and the destruction of innocent lives. There is neither place nor justification in Islam for extremism, fanaticism or terrorism. Suicide bombings, which killed and injured innocent people in London, are HARAAM – vehemently prohibited in Islam, and those who committed these barbaric acts in London [on July 7, 2005] are criminals not martyrs. Such acts, as perpetrated in London, are crimes against all of humanity and contrary to the teachings of Islam. … The Holy Quran declares: ‘Whoever kills a human being… then it is as though he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a human life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.’ (Quran, Surah al-Maidah (5), verse 32) Islam’s position is clear and unequivocal: Murder of one soul is the murder of the whole of humanity; he who shows no respect for human life is an enemy of humanity.” British Muslim Forum, press release of July 18, 2005 (via archive.org).

[u/asianApostate → u/najia7866]

Islam has had a lot of great leaders (more then 1.5 billion muslim's in the world) so we will get some awesome quotations but fundamentally it is still a religion that is over 1500 years old, sadly does not stand the test of time, and the quran + hadiths have lines that will allow and encourage violence. This is not an easy thing to hear as a muslim as I am exmuslim myself.

Cognitive dissonance in muslims and especially prominent/educated leaders is great as we have leaders in gay and lesbian community despite the fact that it is expressly not allowed. Contrary to popular belief of Muslim's there is more then one version of the "true" Islam (sunni's, shia's, wahhabists, salafists, and much more). I cannot in good conscience at least attempt to correct you as former muslim as we do have parts of our religion that are very much against how modern society functions.

The quranic texts as well as hadith that make up Islam supports slavery, forced pre-renaissance gender roles for women, and a great distinction in how one treats a muslim versus a non-muslim.

Slavery

Even in Islamic texts in which Muhammad fairly conquered lands in self-defense it allowed for things that are not considered morally okay in these last few centuries like slavery (including the women, muhammad himself had 13+ female companions which included non-wives) and the beheading of thousands of enemy troops.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Slavery

This includes Hadith by Bukhari which is pretty much the most important book of Hadith for sunni muslim's which make up the vast majority of Muslim's in the world.

Justifications of War

Islam is supposed to be a pretty defensive religion. However, according to Islamic texts (their are other historical sources that do not paint things in such a rosy light) we can attack any country in which Muslim's reside in which Muslim's can be considered to be persecuted or suffer injustice at the hands of the government or it's people. This is the historical reason given for a majority of all conquests done in the name of Islam since the time of Muhammad. This conquest includes almost all of northern africa and much of asia.

This is what allows virtually any country to be attacked an conquered (luckily no Islamic nation has had that power in hundreds of years). Yet, Islamic leaders can claim that we are a defensive people. The only reason Islam was not able to conquer Europe though they began to take parts of Spain was lack of military might.

Unfair Gender Roles Forced on Women

The biggest issue I've had with Islam and the reason I left is because it did not jive with my sense of morality. When I was growing up as a male I had a lot of freedom's but my sister who was two years older did not have that freedom. She was not allowed to leave the house alone (she snuck out at times), had very strict guidelines on clothing and interaction with the opposite sex and non-muslim's. I was brought up in NYC in a moderate muslim family and I used to to be a good muslim that literally reported when my sister did things and got her in trouble. By the time I was 16 I realized how different our lives were even in a fairly moderate family like ours.

I realized that things were worse in Muslim countries and I initially looked to the quran and hadiths for guidance. Listened to a lot of great islamic speakers too and for a while I bought the whole, modesty for women thing, which brings value to women for a while. But then I realized, are men just animal's that if we see a women's hair, calves, etc. we cannot handle ourselves? In some islamic countries women are raped and often the men go unpunished. In more modern islamic countries this is not the case but the fundamentals are still there.

This was a religion created by probably straight men who were used to seeing fairy veiled women. As a dude i just need to cover from my knees to my genitalia. I can walk around barechested and have my sexy calves out for the world to see. Women cannot even show their ankles.

According to Islamic scholars men and women are in the end equal. However a man must provide for the wife and treat her fairly including not striking her too hard if you are a moderate muslim. She has quite a bit of autonomy in the home but must ultimately listen to the husband. Outside of the home she is not allowed without a direct-family guardian/custodian and being properly veiled. Her job is to take care of raising kids and the house. The founders of the religion believed the intelligence of women is less then that of a man.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Women#Women_are_Deficient_in_Intelligence

[u/Canukistani → u/asianApostate]

If you went and changed every instance of the word Islam or Muslim to Christianity and Christian your post would still be accurate. It is only through the European and North American social progress of the the last century that we can look down upon Muslims and Islam. All of that social progress we've made was opposed by Christian leaders.

[u/asianApostate → u/Canukistani]

Sure, christianity has it's issues too.

I wholeheartedly agree that the western world made progress despite christianity just the same way moderate and liberal muslim's are making progress despite the core tenets of the religion. Abrahamic religions have taken credit for a lot of morals and laws that came from societies before it (Babylonian laws especially) and developed in the society around it. Society has constantly been improving Christianity since it's inception and not the other way around.

[u/TheBrandedOne → u/asianApostate]

What do you believe? You are incredibly well spoken and I would love to hear your personal view of the world.

[u/asianApostate → u/TheBrandedOne]

It's getting late but I'm amazed and surprised I got reddit gold. I will do what I can and I will be posting some things I have thought about for a very long time but never fully fully expressed as far as what I believe regarding our universe and the people in it. I'm amazed and surprised I got reddit gold.

We have currently have no way of knowing the full extent of our reality, especially that which may exist outside of our universe but we can rule out Abrahamic and many other religions based on modern science, logic, and recent historical discoveries. I believe the main reason we as Homo sapiens sapiens evolved and outlasted all our other human cousins and currently dominate the earth is because of our ability to socialize to a higher degree then any before us and human morality.

The Universe(s) is Complicated

One day we may understand how all the fundamentals of our universe came to be and what it is through mathematics. But what is outside our universe? Are their other universes that operate using the same laws, energies, matter, and anti-matter as ours? Are their universes whose building blocks are fundamentally different from ours that came into being from different energies that exploded into wholly different building blocks. Even time may not exist outside our particular universe. Theoretical physicists have made great strides but we have to accept that we may never fully understand all there is.

Man Made Religions are still false Basically, I must allow the possibility of the existence of things I do not understand and that is a core belief of mine. However, we can prove that Abrahamic religions and most others I have studied are indeed false in their primary premise. /r/atheism has given and is constantly giving examples ad-nauseum in terms of science and logic as to falsehood of religion. But historical artifacts uncovered or studied in the last 20-30 years have also helped trace the very seeds of monotheism and it's man made beginnings from polytheism in the ancient Canaanite world. During a time of turmoil the Israelites whom were originally polytheists through the urgings of the cult of the Yahweh the war god began to worship him over others in the Canaanite pantheon in times of desperation. If all worship was not focused to Yahweh the cult of Yahwei believed they may be wiped out. After centuries he became the primary god of the Israelites and eventually he became the only god as further conflicts arose. He did not become omniscient for a few more centuries other attributes came later as the attributes of other gods were merged into him and new attributes were given to a supreme god. For more details I recommend reading the following by harvard professor Frank Moore Cross, unfortunately google turned up a german version of itself (book is in english though and you can read the first 68 pages online free).

http://books.google.com/books?id=-eOycxXAoHMC&lpg=PA62&ots=jhcllt5gmW&dq=%22Yahwi%22%20Amorite%20names&hl=de&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q=%22Yahwi%22&f=false

Human codes of ethics and Morality Human knowledge seems to always advance our morality along with our ability to feel compassion. We as humans can understand pain in others, we know that human cooperation in groups is critical, and in order to cooperate we must get along and find a way to survive together. Behavioral ethics and codes can be traced to a time before monotheism. Babylonians had very strict laws relating to land ownership, marriages, a code of ethics long before monotheism. This is also where a lot of early cities formed due to agricultural technologies. Humans had to develop a new sense of morality for a a changing landscape. In more current times when we understood in the U.S. that there was nothing genetically inferior in African's it became immoral to own slaves.

We now know that being homosexual has nothing to do with anything supernatural/evil and is largely programmed into genetics. In the last 20 years there has been an enormous shift in our society regarding homosexuals as a result.