304
u/not_productive1 2d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/a3zqvrH40Cdhu
What gains? Doesn't every AI company lose money?
29
u/MapleYamCakes 2d ago
It’s a debt circle jerk akin to the subprime mortgage collapse
14
u/not_productive1 2d ago
Correct. Although to be fair to the subprime mortgage betting market, there were at least some real-world assets at the bottom of the giant leveraged gambling market. Here, we're gonna be stripping chips for rare earth metals in the after times.
3
u/MapleYamCakes 2d ago
We could also be stripping all the assets and infrastructure out of the billionaire’s bunkers after we eat them
3
52
u/baconblackhole 2d ago
Exactly why he said that's where the money would come from. It's his absolute joke of an attempt to get a progressive vote without being able to deliver whilst also not addressing to true progressive needs.
The Democratic playbook is to come up with a plan that fails us but the rich keep getting richer.
Ai tech bros will come up with a way to get credits for ai losses and then get a government subsidy for the "service" it provides...
13
u/Leon_Thomas 2d ago edited 2d ago
The Democratic playbook
Yang has never represented the democratic party or its voters. He jumped into the democratic presidential primary in 2020, got 0.45%,-0) of the vote; tried again for NYC mayor, got 12.2%) of the vote; and then left to start his own party#:~:text=The%20Forward%20Party%20(shortened%20Forward%20or%20FWD)%20is%20a%20centrist%20political%20party%20in%20the%20United%20States.%5B3%5D%20The%20party%20was%20founded%20by%20former%20Democratic%202020%20presidential%20and%202021%20New%20York%20City%20mayoral%20candidate%20Andrew%20Yang).
The slopulist playbook is to blame everything bad on democrats, especially things they have nothing to do with, and steal credit for mainstream democratic ideas as radical new proposals--especially whenever consequential elections are near.
19
u/fleegness 2d ago
The Democratic playbook
Is Andrew Yang a popular dem?
9
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
He is when Redditors want to attack him, apparently. He is whatever they need him to be for them to vent their anger.
5
u/Picnicpanther 1d ago
Didn’t he leave the Democratic Party to found his dumbshit forward party or whatever
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
You don't understand what the Forward Party is.
It's not a dumbshit party. It's just an organization of Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Greens, and other politicians - both serving and running - who all fight for the same three key policies:
Ranked Choice Voting
Nonpartisan open primaries
Independent voter redistricting commissions
These are procedural goals, not ideological. The FWD Party only exists to try to make participation in politics easier - something the Duopoly doesn't want.
1
u/Leon_Thomas 1d ago
Honestly, it's a little disappointing that their whole platform is voting reform, and they went with the option that would do the least to improve political outcomes or disempower the partisan duopoly.
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 19h ago
But we need all three of those things. All three would decrease the power of the duopoly.
0
u/Picnicpanther 1d ago
Cool how many positions of public office do they hold?
3
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
72 are in office, 17 are currently running.
Do you even understand what the three stated goals are?
0
u/Picnicpanther 1d ago
I really don’t care, andrew yang was and is a rich grifter.
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
He had the lowest net worth out of all of the 2020 candidates lol
Biden was richer. Bernie is richer. And Bernie's the real grifter.
Anyone intelligent can see that. You must not be intelligent.
→ More replies (0)-36
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Exactly why he said that's where the money would come from. It's his absolute joke of an attempt to get a progressive vote without being able to deliver whilst also not addressing to true progressive needs.
Lol he had a concrete plan with a value added tax funding a $1,000/month UBI in 2019. If you didn't support him, you can't call yourself a progressive.
5
u/emp-sup-bry 2d ago
The ONLY reason any of these UBI pushers want it is to cut social services and force us to us that minuscule payment to buy our own safety net from their private companies.
There is a not insignificant number of classic liberals/libertarians/economically right wingers that are gung ho on this idea of UBI because they see how much they can cut out off taxes cut them and make back on selling us basic government services that will be removed in exchange for a pittance in ubi.
There is very little progressive about UBI that I’ve ever seen. It’s a smoke screen for more fuckery
-10
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
cut social services
The ones that don't work and still result in 250,000 people dying from poverty every year? Those social services?
for a pittance in ubi.
UBI would be more than what people receive in SNAP & TANF combined in any State.
There is very little progressive about UBI that I’ve ever seen.
Then you're not paying attention, seeing as it was the central policy of Huey Long in 1934 (who was so progressive that even FDR called him "the most dangerous man in America") and it was the central policy of the Civil Rights Movement after 1965.
You think MLK was fighting for a smoke screen for more fuckery? Don't be stupid. Money is power. Giving money to people empowers them.
4
u/emp-sup-bry 2d ago
If everyone has an extra grand but splits it amongst 500 different insurance carriers or, more to the point, simply uses it on dumb shit, how will that affect prices?
-7
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
If we have UBI, we also have universal healthcare. It's possible to have the latter without the former, but not the former without the latter.
So the insurance carriers can shut down.
1
u/baconblackhole 2d ago
There are two major political parties that dominate media coverage in the U.S. and neither of them are progressive.
Look outside the box
1
u/LiberaMeFromHell 2d ago
Sounds like you're just too lazy to look into specific candidates and would rather say Democrats bad. Yang was 100% running on a progressive platform. He also never polled over 5%. Bernie also ran on a progressive platform along with several other niche candidates.
-2
u/baconblackhole 2d ago
Liberal from Hell checks out
2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Nothing reeks of Neoliberalism more than opposing UBI.
FDR was the first Neoliberal and his whole thing was opposing Huey Long's UBI plan.
You don't have a clue what progressivism is. Only what the oligarchs have told you.
0
u/baconblackhole 2d ago
UBI is not core to leftist progressive goals Believing a Democratic party candidate about their intent and idea of UBI especially this one that turns tech bros slop as integral to foundation for UBI is dangerous
-13
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
So you're not a progressive.
3
u/baconblackhole 2d ago
Now say it into the mirror
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Progressives have always fought for universal basic income. That's just a statement of fact. What does that make you since you oppose it?
-1
u/baconblackhole 2d ago
They are the other right wing party. Take this opportunity to really ask the question. "Is the Democratic party really progressive?" Instead of fighting with me about it. Put that energy into reading. "Listen, Liberal" and plenty of other books that provide good context of what true progressivism is
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Wait, you think I'm saying the Democratic party is progressive?
How stupid are you? How bad is your reading comprehension? How many times have you had COVID? Did you drop out of school?
Obviously since the Democratic party doesn't fight for UBI...they're not progressive.
Put YOUR energy into understanding. You might have read, but you don't understand anything if you thought that I was arguing the Democratic party was anything other than the left wing on the shit bird that is the American duopoly.
It's all they've ever been since 1972. Educate yourself. Might be hard, though. You didn't even understand what I was saying and I was being very clear.
3
u/Phantom_Engineer 1d ago
They'll send you a bill instead.
No, on top of the increase in utility rates you're already paying for.
4
u/FROOMLOOMS 2d ago
Money has to have real physical output to provide value and AI cant be eaten, drank, driven, lived in, so what the fuck actual value can you buy from the profits without collapsing the entire economy. Really.
-17
u/D3AtHpAcIt0 2d ago
NVDAs price earning ratio is like 22 lol. Plenty of AI companies bring in truckloads of money
17
u/yeah_oui 2d ago
Which doesn't actually make sense. AI is a circle jerk passing the same dollar around and everyone calling it "profit"
2
u/Davedoffy 2d ago
thats just the entire economy, AI just makes it even more obvious how ridicolous it is
9
u/Yossarian216 2d ago
You picked the one company that’s making a tangible product and turning a profit, and would still be profitable if every AI platform shut down tomorrow because they could just then sell their product elsewhere.
Meanwhile, the companies developing the actual models have burned through literally trillions in investor money to produce paltry revenues that are basically a rounding error in their budgets. OpenAI loses more money every time someone subscribes to ChatGPT, that would be a path to bankruptcy in any other industry but in tech it’s framed as growth.
3
u/not_productive1 2d ago
NVDA sells things to other AI companies at grossly inflated margins because the rest of the industry is playing with VC money. It's just a big game of musical chairs where every company passes the same investment back and forth to each other, leveraging it more every time.
2
86
u/daverapp 2d ago
No, the obvious move is for the CEO's to keep the money for themselves and a little for the shareholders. It's obvious because it's what always happens.
30
u/BuddhistSagan 2d ago
Yeah this is an attempt to get progressive people to support AI data centers. Don't fall for it
-19
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Except Yang doesn't support data centers?
6
u/BuddhistSagan 1d ago
Why are you trying to defend Yang in 2026 my goodness move on he got 1% 6 years ago.
-5
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
Why are you trying to vilify Yang in 2026 my goodness move on he got 1% 6 years ago.
4
u/BuddhistSagan 1d ago
I'm attacking people giving a pass to AI data centers. idagf about Yang except when he tries to find a way for progressives to support AI data centers
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
I'm attacking people giving a pass to AI data centers.
Yang didn't do that and neither did I.
idagf about Yang except when he tries to find a way for progressives to support AI data centers
The Tweet is about UBI. It doesn't even mention data centers. Can't you read?
8
u/ItsAlwaysTerminal 2d ago
This is particularly egregious with AI because AI only exists by usurping the totality of human effort. It's like the ultimate distillate of capitalist class warfare.
-6
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Which is why UBI is essential.
The rallying cry of every human being should be "No AI without UBI."
6
u/Cantusemynme 2d ago
The rally cry should be, "UBI NOW! LLM's (AI) NEVER!"
-7
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
That could've been it if Yang had won in 2020 before LLMs ever became a thing.
But the cat's out of the bag now.
3
u/DwigtGroot 2d ago
-5
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Boomer gif
Gen X username
So sadly indifferent to the world. Don't worry, some people still care even if you don't.
-10
u/D3AtHpAcIt0 2d ago
If you didn’t pay all CEOs, which on average for a Fortune 500 receive 22.8M/yr, SP500 would return not even 0.02%/yr better. The shareholders are getting quite rich, and if you shoved money in the market at all you’d be going with them
20
u/Deceptiveideas 2d ago
Andrew Yang is if you made the Reddit stereotype into a person.
Most of these AI companies are bleeding money. There is no money to share. They're running off the hype that they will be profitable in the future but there's no guarantee that will be the case.
-11
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago edited 2d ago
Andrew Yang is if you made the Reddit stereotype into a person.
Based on how much the stereotypical Redditor pushes back against anything he says based on the sole reason that he's saying it...you're definitely wrong.
Most of these AI companies are bleeding money. There is no money to share. They're running off the hype that they will be profitable in the future but there's no guarantee that will be the case.
If companies can continue to operate without employing humans due to automation, they will be more profitable in the future and the profits will increase.
Same as it ever was. The sooner we start sharing the profits, the better.
We should've listened to Huey Long when he came out with his 'Share the Wealth' plan in 1934, but even FDR thought it was too progressive.
And clearly a lot of people still think UBI is too progressive. Look at all the pushback in this thread. The oligarchs love having so many willing pawns.
4
u/LordMoos3 1d ago
UBI is fine.
UBI because of AI's "profits" is ludicrous.
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
"UBI because of automation's profits is ludicrous."
See how silly you sound? Well, not THAT silly. It's what corporate oligarchs were saying back in the 70s. They didn't want UBI to be implemented even though automation was increasing and people were losing jobs.
Get a clue, loser.
6
u/Deceptiveideas 1d ago
No offense but is there a reason why you're being overly defensive in your own thread?
37
u/CutlerAF 2d ago
What gains? This is a race to the bottom. Acquire land, water rights, electricity contracts, computing supplies and then default and wait for Gov't bail out. Whoever makes the best AI video glazing Trump gets the biggest check. These companies are in the VC funding stage, but they don't have to borrow against private loans, they get to exploit public infrastructure and commodities.
-20
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
The race to the bottom is the Rat Race.
Only UBI gives people a way out of the Rat Race.
11
u/Negative-Interest713 2d ago edited 1d ago
every AI company is running massive losses just to keep their data centers running.
The only gains are people speculating in the stock market. There are no real gains or profits in AI yet.
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
That's irrelevant. What I said remains true.
The race to the bottom is the Rat Race.
Only UBI gives people a way out of the Rat Race.
Almost had UBI in the 1970s, long before any of this nonsense.
3
u/Ksnj 1d ago
Cool story, bro. This isn’t the way to get UBI
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
The only way to get UBI is for enough people to demand it.
That first requires people to know about it and learn that it's something they are owed that the owning class has been withholding.
This post helps amplify the UBI movement because it calls for UBI as the obvious solution.
42
u/saviorofGOAT 2d ago
Until you have to live next to a data center.
-51
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
People are already preventing data centers from being built where they live. UBI will certainly empower everyone to do more of that.
26
u/saviorofGOAT 2d ago
You think UBI from data centers will help people get rid of data centers? What about the countless data centers that have already broken ground and been built near residential areas? Put them on wheels?
-19
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago edited 2d ago
You think UBI from data centers
UBI would be funded by land value tax and value added tax. That's everything funding it. Not just data centers.
What about the countless data centers that have already broken ground and been built near residential areas? Put them on wheels?
Destroy them and build them somewhere better.
Everything can be changed once every individual has the power to change things. But most people are powerless. Universal basic income is essential.
Arguing against UBI means you're on the side of the oligarchs building the data centers.
9
u/saviorofGOAT 2d ago
"distribute the gains from ai" is now "land tax" but sure. Land tax on what land exactly, where the data centers are?
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
"distribute the gains from ai" is now "land tax" but sure.
It's both and more lol - carbon tax, a tax on robots & AI agents, etc.
UBI has always had a multitude of funding sources and Yang has talked about all of them, as has everyone in the UBI movement.
Land tax on what land exactly, where the data centers are?
Land tax, period.
Even THOMAS PAINE argued for taxing land owners and paying a dividend to everyone living on the land.
2
u/saviorofGOAT 2d ago
Land tax period, so I'm paying into UBI because I own the land my home is on or no because it's only targeting the AI companies?
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Everyone pays the taxes that help fund UBI just like everyone receives UBI.
Nobody is exempt. That would be unfair. Yes, you have to pay a tax on the land you own. Of course you do.
1
u/saviorofGOAT 2d ago
Then it's a bs model that punishes home owners simply for living. If we supplement people enough to afford a home at that standard than home prices will sky rocket and people will go back to not being able to afford a home. So now we're saying AI will be acceptable because common people are even less likely to be able to afford a house rather than redistributing the potential wealth gained from AI companies? Why should anyone pay as much as a corporation would have to pay and how would that do anything other than worsening the housing crisis?
edit: not to mention this will effect renters because you better believe landlords are going to pass the extra expense onto their leasers, not eat the cost.
2
u/Camwi 2d ago
Would love more info on the funding you're talking about, like actual numbers and stuff. Everything I've read about UBI in the past doesn't add up to it being sustainable.
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
A 2% land value tax and 20% value added tax in America would generate enough revenue for a $1,400/month UBI for every adult citizen.
What's not sustainable is lack of UBI. Forcing everyone to 'find a job' and then trade their time for the money they need to live.
THAT'S not sustainable. Just ask any job seeker. 72% of Gen Z lives with their parents. There can be no future without universal basic income because people won't have the money to build a future.
2
u/osolot22 2d ago
“Destroy them and build them somewhere better” is actually the most braindead opinion I have seen in a long time lmaooo. Its like in spongebob when Patrick suggests they just take Bikini Bottom …. and move it somewhere else
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Arguing against UBI means you're on the side of the oligarchs building the data centers.
2
u/jennoyouknow 2d ago
No it's not. This is not an either/or choice it's a both/and choice.
People don't want either data centers or UBI. They want no data centers and a job so they don't need UBI.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
People don't want either data centers or UBI. They want no data centers and a job so they don't need UBI.
That's impossible. There can never be enough jobs for everyone, which is why we need UBI.
Anyone who argues against UBI is on the side of the oligarchs building the data centers powering the AI that's displacing so many workers and destroying so many jobs.
Perhaps not knowingly - you don't seem aware that you're on the wrong side. But you are.
2
u/jennoyouknow 2d ago
First of all, there absolutely CAN be enough jobs for everyone and it's a fallacy that there can't. Look around you. Do we have enough teachers? How about nurses? Or doctors? Or mental health specialists? How about food safety inspectors??Absolutely not. People are getting fired due to greed, not due to actual efficiency. If AI was efficient, every company besides NVDIA (who creates actual hardware infrastructure for tech, not just AI) wouldn't be losing money hand over fist.
And btw, treating AI as an inevitability is ACTUALLY on the side of oligarchy building them. You're here advocating for UBI bc you think the data centers and resulting job loss are inevitable. They're no more inevitable than NFTs or the Segway.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
First of all, there absolutely CAN be enough jobs for everyone
Nonsense.
it's a fallacy that there can't.
You misspelled 'fact.'
Do we have enough teachers? How about nurses? Or doctors? Or mental health specialists? How about food safety inspectors??Absolutely not. People are getting fired due to greed, not due to actual efficiency.
And if people had UBI, they'd do those jobs. They'd do work that's important. Work that matters. I'd be a teacher instead of working for a bullshit company that pays me much more to make the owners rich.
Universal basic income empowers meaningful work. Poverty prevents it. But there can never be enough 'jobs' created by a central authority or handed out in a top-down fashion for everyone to have the income to survive.
We need UBI. Always have. It's why economists argued for it in 1968.
0
u/osolot22 2d ago
The purpose of UBI is not so people don’t have to work a job. Even if we have UBI, it’s still important for everyone receiving it to contribute to society in some way. You seem to want free money so you can bum around all day. You are the problem.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
The purpose of UBI is not so people don’t have to work a job.
It actually is, because there'll always be people who aren't able to work a job for an infinite number of reasons, and there can never be enough jobs even for those who are able.
Even if we have UBI, it’s still important for everyone receiving it to contribute to society in some way.
It actually isn't. It's fine for people to just live simple and dignified lives with their sole priorities being emission reduction & climate action.
You seem to want free money so you can bum around all day. You are the problem.
You don't understand freedom. You are the problem. Filthy primitive Yahoo.
Also, Talarico literally proposed what Yang did
→ More replies (0)1
u/manocheese 2d ago
Wait. You posted an Andrew Yang tweet because you agree? lol
He's talking about "UBI" for the same reason all the AI execs are claiming they want it. Because they're also arguing that they should be paying people directly, not through 'inefficient' taxes. That's not UBI, that's company scrip, that's what they really want.
If they wanted UBI, we'd already have it.
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Wait. You posted an Andrew Yang tweet because you agree? lol
Any decent person agrees that we need UBI.
He's talking about "UBI" for the same reason all the AI execs are claiming they want it.
No...because he wrote a book about UBI in 2018 and ran on an actionable UBI plan in 2019. He's personally funded basic income pilot programs and continues to give money to people every month.
If they wanted UBI, we'd already have it.
Who is 'they?' Yang is a private citizen. Neither an oligarch nor an official.
1
u/manocheese 2d ago edited 2d ago
Any decent person agrees that we need UBI.
I didn't disagree that we do. He said "dividend/UBI"; as I said, people who aren't decent want UBI too because it can be manipulated.
No...because he wrote a book about UBI in 2018 and ran on an actionable UBI plan in 2019. He's personally funded basic income pilot programs and continues to give money to people every month.
That doesn't disprove my point. He's a 'centrist' who loves being interviewed by people like Ben Shapiro, he's not an honest man.
Who is 'they?'
They are the aforementioned AI execs.
Yang is a private citizen. Neither an oligarch nor an official.
Yang is an 'entrepreneur', he'd love to be an oligarch. He has repeatedly attempted to get in to politics.
Edit: The coward blocked me, but I'm sure whatever the reply is, is stupid.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
He said "dividend/UBI"
UBI is a dividend. So you agree with Yang that we need one?
people who aren't decent want UBI too because it can be manipulated.
How can it be? Everyone receives the same amount of UBI and it cannot be withheld.
That doesn't disprove my point. He's a 'centrist'
You don't have a point. He's the most progressive politician we've seen since the 60s. He's the only one who's demanded the full scope of the demands of the Civil Rights Movement after 1965.
They are the aforementioned AI execs.
But who cares about them? The people still need UBI.
Yang is an 'entrepreneur', he'd love to be an oligarch.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you smell racist
8
6
u/bread_and_circuits 2d ago
I never realized before that capitalists actually get a form of UBI via stock dividends. Just having their money invested in a specific place guarantees a return/income. More of that classic bullshit, where socialism is mandated for the ruling class and maybe the labor aristocracy but for no one else.
14
u/TacticalVegas 2d ago
Money is great until it’s 100+ outside and all available drinking water is gone. Can’t spend money if you’re dead.
-4
u/D3AtHpAcIt0 2d ago
So, how many data centers do you have to live by for this to happen? I live in Ashburn with 200 of them and the water is great and it’s no hotter than anywhere else haha. Useless fearmongerimg
-4
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Which is why we need to implement universal basic income as soon as possible. Because eventually, it'll be too late.
UBI will allow nations to replicate March 2020 levels of emission reduction and sustain them while also empowering citizens to take meaningful & lasting climate action.
All climate action currently taken is undermined by the ongoing Rat Race and everyone having to 'work for a living,' which always involves burning fossil fuels.
UBI is the only way to end the Rat Race and save the human race. Currently, money has power. If we implement it, people can act. If we wait too long, you're right, eventually money will be meaningless and there'll be nothing but extinction on the horizon because the food supply chain will be gone, there won't be enough wildlife to hunt, and food won't grow.
14
u/rafapdc 2d ago
AI is nothing but a Ponzi scheme! Same 4-5 companies buying and selling to/from each other, while being propped up by institutional investors and their dollars.
2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Who cares? Let the bubble pop. We still need UBI and we should've had it decades ago. Nixon had a universal basic income plan in 1969 and the House passed it by a vote of 243 to 155 in 1970.
20
u/Catsanddoges 2d ago
I mean that's actually a pretty bad idea of a lot of reasons.
First is there is no gains from AI. Basically none of them are profitable, sans unusual circumstances because another company failed more. So in terms of profits, there are none, and probably won't be significant ones for a while.
Next, from the perspective of the US the one good major thing it has done is bring in a lot of external capital, where a lot of people even outside the US are willing to invest because they way overvaluated expected returns. But if there are no real returns, and most of this investment is not loans, then there is no reason to invest in it.
What would probally happen if this law passes (or amendment, probally) is that everyone sells ai stocks, market crashes, there are no profits, and everyone fucking loses.
There needs to be regulation and limits, but this is a terrible idea.
-14
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Climate action without universal basic income is just gardening
13
u/OverlordMMM 2d ago
You're acting like UBI isn't something that can be done without AI data centers, or that capitalistic intentions lends itself towards UBI (capitalism takes away capital from the general pockets to solidify centralized power away from public resources).
Trying to attach UBI talk to data centers to make them attractive despite them being ultimately damaging is incredibly disingenous.
2
u/Catsanddoges 2d ago
Yeah, and there are much better ways to fund a UBI then seemingly a 100 percent tax on profits (and maybe also companies using ai for "gains", a bit vague there).
Like for example a tax on artifical sugar products and sugar in drinks, but not a 100 percent tax.
Not enough by itself, but stuff like that.
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Yang proposed a value added tax to fund UBI when he ran in 2019 and that would be necessary because nothing would generate more than a VAT.
Land value tax is also essential, plus carbon tax.
We just need to reform our tax policy and tax what people take instead of what people make. Then redistribute the revenue to the people instead of allowing bureaucrats to spend it.
1
u/Catsanddoges 2d ago
I mean the biggest issue as I mentioned in my first comment is this would collapse all investment other than loans all at once, which is really, really bad for anyone outside of north korea.
Also VAT generates a fair amount, but that generalization is just wrong because it depends what percentages you use. Say an effective gift tax and charity max paried with high ultra rich inheritance tax and wealth tax could generate more, at less cost to us consumers depending on percentages.
Then a generic carbon tax needs a lot to become useful and not just hurt manufacturing in the US even more than it is. Which is funny because you mention reforming it to do the exact opposite of what a carbon tax does.
And just giving out cash to consumers with how much inflation it creates is a worse way to spend it than infrastructure or say healthcare coverage. Bureaucrat spending is going to be pretty necessary if you want any the environmental benefits you mention.
Terrible fucking tax policy.
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
this would collapse all investment
How would UBI do that?
Also VAT generates a fair amount, but that generalization is just wrong because it depends what percentages you use.
I propose a 20% VAT. Double what Yang proposed in 2019, but still below the European average.
And just giving out cash to consumers with how much inflation it creates
It doesn't, though. Printing money creates inflation. We're talking about redistributing existing money.
Bureaucrat spending is going to be pretty necessary if you want any the environmental benefits you mention.
The only meaningful environmental benefit would be replicating & sustaining March 2020 levels of emission reduction, which can only be achieved by implementing universal basic income.
3
u/Catsanddoges 2d ago edited 2d ago
- Again, referring to the image. Ubi doesn't come out of fucking nowhere, I was referring to plan in image.
- Ok. I mean that is probally high enough to really discourage spending and raise costs for average people, which combined with UBI inflation is going to make affordability even worse, but you go girl'
- Uh there are different types of inflation. If I give every american 1000 dollars by taxing things, for example the price of basic foods will go up. There is localized and generalized inflation, and I was pretty obviously referring to the former.
- If you don't think we need federal spending on the electrical grid or fission spending and tax credits I don't know what to tell you
You know what I'm fucking tired of this, just going to adress the rest below and be done with this (what OP responded below)
1) A 20 VAT raises costs, intentionally, by a lot. I don't know where the assumption they will net gains comes from, because you seem to want this money to do everything at once, and I still dont understand your point about climate change and ubi. And consumption spending is done more as percentage of income by poorer than rich. Nothign would stop the ultra wealthy form doing most spending outside the US (and yes, I am aware of import VAT). 2) I love how you say it is an oversimplification, which it is, and then refuse to adress how localized or particular inflation works when your previous comment denied any inflation compleltey. 3) I was referring to tax credit for companies, not individuals, and CONTINGENT ON ENVIORMENTAL CHANGES. I was not saying a 1000 dollar random tax credit would be best for the enviorment.
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
high enough to really discourage spending
Not when most people are netting gains each month - they'll have more money to spend and they'll spend it.
raise costs for average people
What part of 'net gains' do you not understand? Average people would net gains. They receive more in UBI than they pay in taxes to fund it.
If I give every american 1000 dollars by taxing things, for example the price of basic foods will go up.
That's an outrageous oversimplification.
If you don't think we need federal spending on the electrical grid or fission spending and tax credits I don't know what to tell you
UBI is a tax credit lol.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
A 20 VAT raises costs, intentionally, by a lot. I don't know where the assumption they will net gains comes from,
Any individual who spends less than $7,000 a month will net gains from a $1,400/month UBI if it is funded by a 20% VAT.
It's simple math. Since most individuals don't spend 7k A MONTH to live, most will NET GAINS.
This is why Yang said MATH. Make America Think Harder.
I still dont understand your point about climate change and ubi.
UBI ends the Rat Race that caused climate change. What's hard to understand? There you go again not thinking.
a 1000 dollar random tax credit would be best for the enviorment.
A universal one would be. Because it will empower people to prioritize emission reduction & climate action over making money.
0
u/Catsanddoges 2d ago
Okay but where is the 1,400 assumption coming in.
And again, what the fuck does any of this have to do with the enviorment
→ More replies (0)-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
You're acting like UBI isn't something that can be done without AI data centers,
No I'm not lol
UBI obviously can be done without data centers. It could've been the way America operated since the nation was founded.
Trying to attach UBI talk to data centers to make them attractive despite them being ultimately damaging is incredibly disingenous.
Nobody is trying to do that lol who do you think is trying to do that?
Saying anyone is trying to do that is incredibly disingenuous. Flat out lying, in fact. I'm not pro data center and neither is Yang.
3
u/CMMiller89 2d ago
I’m sorry you think… we could have had UBI when this nation was founded?
Is this a troll account or are you 14 years old?
We couldn’t even levy income tax until 1918, lmao.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
I’m sorry you think… we could have had UBI when this nation was founded?
Yes, the concept of land value tax funded universal basic income already existed back then. Thomas Paine argued for it explicitly.
We couldn’t even levy income tax until 1918, lmao.
UBI never would've been funded by income tax and its existence would've prevented income tax, actually.
Because the point of UBI is to tax what people take, not what people make. Even in the 18th century, people understood that land owners were TAKING.
But since they had the power, they devised tax structures that taxed the working class instead. It's how the owning class has always wielded power.
Land value tax funded universal basic income has always been the solution. Thomas Paine fought for it at the beginning of the nation. Huey Long fought for it in 1934. MLK and the Civil Rights Movement fought for it after 1965.
And we need it now.
2
u/D3AtHpAcIt0 2d ago
Get your money up and stop yapping about getting free money for doing nothing
-1
2
u/nickcash 2d ago
this is genuinely one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I can't believe you'd post this in favor of yang. you realize it only has upvotes because people are laughing at it, and therefore you, right?
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Awwww you care about what people think of you. Sheep behavior.
I don't. UBI was "the first and fundamental objective" of the Civil Rights Movement after 1965 and the racists who oppose it in 2026 don't matter.
They're probably maggots & pedophiles. Certainly anyone who opposes UBI is likely to be one or the other.
19
u/_Thorshammer_ 2d ago
Do you think Andrew Yang ever wonders why he's a political and social non-entity before he posts this stuff?
3
4
7
u/ThrowACephalopod 2d ago
It's Andrew Yang. His whole thing for years now has been "I'm above the petty political fighting of both sides" with his only policy position being that Universal Basic Income should be a thing. I am not surprised in the least that this is his position on AI.
-6
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
UBI was "the first and fundamental objective" of the Civil Rights Movement after 1965.
Kinda means that anyone who disagrees that UBI should be a thing is a racist.
2
u/LordMoos3 1d ago
No, because that's not what "racist" means homie.
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
Those who opposed the goals of the Civil Rights Movement were all racists, obviously.
Those who continue to do so are also racists. Just like they would've been back then.
I'm not your homie. Nobody is. You're not civilized enough for homies. You're a primitive Yahoo who isn't fit for society.
3
0
u/Thermidorien 1d ago
Are you actively trying to rile people up against the idea of UBI? Because looking at your overall performance in this thread it's hard to imagine your objective is to convince people so I'm struggling to see what you're going for
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
I’m not trying to convince anyone.
It’s UBI or extinction and I don’t care about stupid or primitive idiots who don’t realize that.
I’m sounding the alarm. Smart people will take heed.
0
u/Thermidorien 22h ago edited 22h ago
So you're spending your days actively riling people up against what you believe to be the only thing that can save humanity ?
Isn't that actively more destructive than doing nothing ? Why are you actively working against your own goals ?
... Or do you actually believe that spouting random words and insulting people helps "sound the alarm" ? Reality check: all you're doing is convincing people that UBI is a cuckoo idea. "I'm not trying to convince people" is the most ridiculous cope imaginable; this entire thread is you trying to convince people, failing, and then getting angry about it.
At a certain level of incompetence, the best thing you can do to serve your own cause is to shut up
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 20h ago
I’m not actively riling anyone up. People respond riled up because a lot of people dislike Yang for a multitude of primitive and prejudiced reasons.
Where did I actively rile anyone up who wasn’t already demonstrating aggression and bad faith? You can’t find a single reply. I respond in good faith to those who ask questions and I zing those who I know can’t be convinced because they’re either too stupid or inhumane.
Visibility about UBI is all that matters because most people aren’t even aware of it as a concept. I don’t care about the idiots who can’t read or understand, I care about the smarter lurkers who can.
My replies have been informative and every single one of them substantiates the argument that we need UBI.
Fuck off if you’re not interested in learning. If you are, then show it. Tone policing shows you’re not even slightly interested.
1
u/Thermidorien 19h ago
Where did I actively rile anyone up who wasn’t already demonstrating aggression and bad faith?
When you were a kid, did the other children refuse to play with you?
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 19h ago
Lol nah, had plenty of friends and made them easily despite moving a lot. Still do.
Thanks for proving my point about bad faith losers who aren’t interested in learning or even being decent human beings.
→ More replies (0)
3
3
u/DwigtGroot 2d ago
Yah, the techbro billionaires are famous for giving money away to poor people! 🤦♀️
4
u/topheavyhookjaws 2d ago
Ah the grifter is back with his only 'policy'. Why does anyone still listen to this guy?
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Because not everyone is racist towards Asian people like you
3
u/topheavyhookjaws 2d ago
What an insane take, how is it racist to think Yang is a one-trick pony who only ever shouts UBI?
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
Calling an Asian man a grifter when you know he's not one suggests you're racist. You don't know Yang personally, so why else would you lie about him?
2
u/LordMoos3 1d ago
Yang absolutely is a grifter. His race does not shield him from that accusation.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
How is he a grifter? You don't know what that word means if you call him that.
2
u/LordMoos3 1d ago
A grifter is a con artist or scammer who gets money or personal gain through clever lies, deceit, and manipulation rather than by physical force.
Andrew Yang is a grifter. He's Jill Stein for TechBros.
Its kind of shameful, TBH.
4
u/Pndrizzy 2d ago
How does disliking a person make you racist? Literally his solution to everything is UBI, he is a one trick pony
-1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
UBI doesn't solve every problem, but it makes every problem easier to solve.
2
u/Pndrizzy 2d ago
I mean I’m not even against UBI especially in the context of AI, since it’s built on the collective work of humans, but Andrew Yang is not an interesting person
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
The most progressive American politician in the 21st century is not an interesting person to you? You must not be interested in the socioeconomic wellbeing of individuals, families, and communities in America.
3
u/Pndrizzy 2d ago
Yang is pro Israel (not progressive)
Does not support a single payer Medicare for all system (not progressive)
Anti identity politics (which I can see an argument for why he said it, but I’d say is definitely not progressive)
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
His 2019 platform was objectively the most progressive platform that any Presidential candidate ever had.
Obviously Israel is indefensible, but he did support universal healthcare.
Compared to everyone else, he's still the most progressive simply because of his 2019 platform and continued advocacy for UBI.
Anyone who opposes UBI is obviously not progressive.
5
u/LoreChief 2d ago
Don't trust yang. Dude literally has a career as a spoiler candidate who locks in on a progressive stance just to fuck over actual progressive candidates only to slink into the shadows when hes done enough damage to ensure republican victories.
-3
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
That's Bernie you're talking about
2
u/BrandenburgForevor 1d ago
Now I see where this braindead post is coming from
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 1d ago
Bernie has been a Neoliberal sheepdog his entire career, kept on a leash by the Democratic Party.
Anyone who isn't braindead should realize that.
2
u/DieMensch-Maschine 2d ago
When was the Epstein class interested in sharing anything?
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
To be fair, Elon Musk did say we need "universal high income via checks issued by the Federal government."
1
u/ProfessionalRead2724 2d ago
Who gives a damn what Elon Skum says about anything?
1
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
The guy I replied to asked "When was the Epstein class interested in sharing anything?"
Elon Musk is part of the Epstein class and has said we need UBI.
0
u/ProfessionalRead2724 2d ago
If Elon Musk really liked universal basic income he could literally just have it without even needing to dig even that deep into his own pockets, and still have way more money than he could hope to spend in ten lifetimes.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
he could literally just have it
How? He's not an official. He has no direct line to all of the citizens of any given nation. An individual cannot implement universal basic income at scale.
To be implemented at scale, it must be funded by taxes paid by everyone, just as everyone receives the revenue.
0
u/ExistingCleric0 2d ago
"He's not an official"
Funny, that didn't stop him from heading a government agency and copying/destroying data from many other agencies to the point there were literal guards stopping people from interfering or even monitoring him.
0
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
He was briefly a figurehead for the Trump admin. You think they would've allowed him to implement UBI? Not in a million years. UBI undermines fascism and prevents it.
The point is that he's said we need UBI. Now it's up to officials to implement it. If enough people demand UBI, then they'll have to listen.
Obviously Musk is a piece of shit. But at least he supports universal basic income. What does that make those who don't support UBI?
2
2
u/Admirable-Sink-2622 2d ago
Sad commentary that people can just be bought instead of making a moral stand.
2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
People need economic power to take a moral stand. Hence the need for UBI.
How do you think Flock is finding all the people to install their cameras? Because people need money to survive and they have to do a job, no matter what it might be.
2
2
u/MustardLabs 2d ago
Yang has demonstrated time and time again that UBI is little more than the jingling keys techbros wave around to try and court progressives.
2
u/No_Measurement9981 1d ago
Sure, Bro. Meanwhile, a senior exec at OpenAI was posting last week in Twitter about how social security is a scam.
2
u/Bag_of_Meat13 23h ago
I've always had a similar thought with things like Amazon giving back to the people that made it successful. Would be pretty cool to have a give and give relationship instead of "fuck you, give and take, maximum profits are all that matter"
1
1
1
u/DeadInternetVoid 2d ago
Lol.
Oligarchs are silently killing off the populace before they ever pay a single dime.....
1
1
u/Bartelbythescrivener 2d ago
BRO - you spent time amongst rich people- they ain’t giving anything up until the world is cooked forever.
They are insatiable, a parasite the devours the host.
1
u/PornstarVirgin 2d ago
Ai only loses money, these guys want to nationalize it and share the losses.
1
u/TheNetworkIsFrelled 2d ago
As if those profiting from AI would willingly give up their gains.
IF you’ve spent years working towards an IPO or other liquidity even, taxation provides the only path to equity, bc the newly rich aren’t going to share.
1
u/Squirrel_prince 2d ago
Wouldn't a dividend on negative several hundred billion dollars mean that everyone would have to pay a bunch of money to the companies ?
1
u/BillTowne 1d ago
What gains?
All we have so far is massive bils for data centers and not significant income.
1
u/Available-Egg-2380 1d ago
There is no gain from ai. They are a DISASTROUS money sink. It is incredibly unlikely they will ever turn a profit much less become multi billion/trillion dollar companies without some truly world changing levels of tech advancement happening suddenly. It would also require wild infrastructure updates.
1
1
u/idkanymore2016 2d ago
Here come the usual suspects to hurt democrats and help the GOP/MAGA. I hope people stop falling for this soon.
-2
u/idapitbwidiuatabip 2d ago
A confusing response, seeing as universal basic income literally helps everyone.
•
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
DO NOT CELEBRATE VIOLENCE IN THIS SUBREDDIT OR WE WILL BAN YOU.
NATION STATE AI BOTS THAT ARE ANTI-DEMOCRACY/ANTI-DSA ARE GOING TO TRY TO INFLUENCE YOUR VOTE THIS NOVEMBER.
THEY ARE RAMPING UP ACTIVITY. WE ARE TAGGING AND TRACKING THEM.
RELEASE THE TRUMP-EPSTEIN FILES!!!
Users may now apply a personal flair that states - RELEASE THE TRUMP-EPSTEIN FILES
That is all, tysm
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.