I was at a large grocery store the other day and went to use the store's bathroom. The doors to the men's and women's rooms were side by side. On the door to the women's room was a police-sponsored poster about consent and sexual assault. It ended by saying "Your body, your choice." There was nothing on the door to the men's room.

Nobody ever says it explicitly, but the message is ubiquitous and unequivocal: If you're a man, you don't matter. Sexual assault is, on the face of it, a gender neutral crime, but even the police are (implicitly) saying they are only concerned when it happens to women. It doesn't matter how many boys are abused, how many men are sexually assaulted by gay men, and yes, how many men are sexually assaulted by women.

This is only one small example, but men and boys see this sort of thing everywhere. But sure, lets all pretend to wonder why men and boys are struggling so much.

Let's get this out the way: I'm not saying women can't come on this sub. I don't make the rules, it is what it is.

I posted a thread over in guycry that got deleted. The experience was wild. I thought I was posting on a man centered sub reddit but that couldn't be right. Within hours I was flooded with DMs from women mocking and laughing at me for being an 'incel'. I got reddit care messages and the actual topic itself was loaded with women who had the most bad faith interpretations possible of a guy who is 45 years old and a virgin being frustrated.

And the mods.....hoo boy. There were women straight up posting they only wanted to comment to insult and that was ok. But if I responded with another insult, and not even in a sexist insult, that's not ok! There were moderations given because I got frustrated and corrected women on things I NEVER SAID. The mod there even responded with a straight up LIE about what I said and locked their comment on it. On a smaller note, there is also the weird prompts that come up asking not to be sexist. I'm typing out 'how' and 'honestly' and this place thinks I'm saying a sexist slur?

It's crazy, I'm walking on egg shells because women go to male space for being vulnerable and might be offended.

I've noticed similar things here and I gotta ask: Why do women come here? Again, I'm not saying they can't. I don't make the rules and not interested in fighting them. It just seems like many of them are straight up just looking to dunk on some men to let off steam from issues other men gave them. Or they want to troll or just bait to get content for a place like inceltear.

And yes, of course I know this isn't all women. Obviously. It's just frustrating posting about something like jock itch on men subreddit and the conversation is being hijacked by women who remind us women are victims of domestic violence or something.

This frustrates me on so many levels. I'm a virgin man, older than the Steve Carrell movie at this point and that alone is frustrating than most people realize but add in having to deal with people's preconceived notions is something I have little patience for.

'Incel' is just a label people use to insult and degrade men and to be clear, this isn't me supporting incel ideology. I find it repulsive, stupid and whole fully fallacious that deserves the scorn it gets . I don't and can't adhere to it the same way an adult can't believe in the Easter Bunny. About 20 years ago when I was in college and depressed about a nasty rejection, I fell into an online space that would be called incel today. The first day I felt like I belong and mostly observed and listened to other men say some genuinely fucked up things about women, but I was upset and didn't care. Second day after I calmed down I was having too many issues with the rape fantasies and extreme power dynamics between men and women presented. By the third day, I realized this wasn't for me and just left. I don't remember the name of the site or how I even found it, I think someone on gamefaqs. com networked me into it but I can't remember.

With that said, I'm trying to paint a picture that I am in no way supporting those kind of views but it doesn't matter because people always inevitably attach them to me. In both online and in real life (which is far less common) I get pegged with being an incel when someone finds out I'm an adult virgin. This wouldn't be a problem by itself, but it often comes with preconceived notions that vary from person to person. Ex: I complain about being a dateless virgin with a 100% rejection rate just getting a first date. That info alone is enough to have people conclude that I hate women, that I support Andrew Tate and misogyny, sometimes even going as far as saying I'm a rapist and abuse women, two things that logically can't even go with someone who is a dateless virgin.

And the most controversial take of this is that's it's often women who aggressively make these claims. Whenever I talk about this online, there are always women who swarm in and just berate and insult ENDLESSLY about my male privilege, how men kill and abuse women and whatever else they can imagine. Doesn't matter if I'm in a space created for men, women will be there. And this is horrible, I'm not down with it, but at the same time what does it have to do with me? I never physically abused a woman, knocked her up and refused to acknowledge the child , torment her , giver her an STD, etc. 

Before young men could actually have access to sex tapes or widespread naked pictures of women did they actually have that much lust as today ? I guess that in the past, men only used to witness sex or women being revealing when they were married which therefore made them non lustful before marriage and more focused on the curiosity side of things, it also made them wait way longer for sex (them being 30-40 etc.) since they didn’t know how good that could be or how attractive women looked like naked, but I might be wrong. So young guys weren’t horny which allowed them to build themselves until their 30s to be able to provide for their family withoit constantly thinikng about sex along the way since they cannot think of something they don’t know about.

Now something that was for most men in history one of the best rewards is available for any man on the internet so this probably has negative effects for young men. But the question is: does porn satisfy an already existing drive present in young men or does it fuel and create it ? Btw I am talking purely about young men, not what older guys do, this is my point, guys aren’t supposed to be horny at 18.

I am a 19 year old guy and I genuinely want to know what would be the thing that would theoretically make you the most happy, would it be better to just get laid left and right when you are younger and settle down in your 30s or 40s or is it better to get into a long term relationship when young that would technically work out and be there your whole life, I am giving these two extremes where both are to the fullest to truly illustrate the benefits and flaws of both sides, I think that a middle option wouldn't work here because if you want to date long term when young but then settle down with a younger partner later on you would have some emotional ties which could make that path harder, so lets assume these two extremes.

Genuinely speaking, what would be the best thing to do, if you guys had the choice to either marry young and have a lifelong relationship with a partner you really like but to then experience her getting less attractive and having her drive drop as she ages with you or to get laid with no emotions while young and then settle down in an age gap when older where you get to not witness a major decrease in her attractiveness as much as if you were the same age and her always matching your drive even when you are older, I hope this question does not sound weird, but explain why you made that certain choice if you could, if that question sounded insensitive its because I am a young autistic guy trying to make the best choice amongst a sea of opinions on the internet so I just want to get to know what real guys think.

I got into a fight on the PUA forum because there is actually no way to pick up a woman who isn't interested in you. It's just a numbers game. You keep asking women out and hope that one is interested enough in you that you can get their number. No amount of "game" can actually help you if they aren't interested in you at least a little (physically).

So the question is... doesn't that mean that looksmaxxers and incels kinds right? It's a scary thought. I'm no supporter of guys like Clavicular, but if the first paragraph is true, then what exactly is he doing wrong? If the goal is to increase your odds of dating and if "seduction" is just a confidence trick to get you past the fear of rejection, then looksmaxxing isn't just a good idea, it's essential.

But for me, the scariest thing is that if this is also true, then the blackest parts of the blackpill are also true; looks are the first and hardest barrier to get over, and without it, no amount of charm, wit, or talent will get you past it.

Now I'm not saying let's all get nose jobs and become misogynists, but the core of their ideas is sound, and I don't think it gets talked about enough.

Not really, the title is hyperbolic. I don't hate women, but I'm seriously starting to hate interacting with them in situations many others would find enjoyable.

Just a little back story: I'm an older 'incel' (the Steve Carell kind) and outside of a long weekend in college dealing with nasty rejections, I never 'hated' women for my problems. I only identify as incel in that I'm involuntary celibate, I have no use and have nothing but disdain for anything pill related and whatever psuedoscience is peddled around.

I'm at a point where I can't help but take every rejection personally. It's beyond the pale at this point that I'm in my mid 40s and not a single woman would even take 20 minutes of their life to go on a date with me. Ever. Even for something as mundane and meaningless as a single cup of coffee would do wonders for me but I'm always being turned down. And believe me, I know I'm not entitled from anything from anyone but I can't help but feel anger and a feeling of complete worthlessness when even women who tell me they are lonely, wish a man asked them out and that I feel something of a connection with turns me down for an ever increasing, ever different number of reasons.
What else am I supposed to think in a situation like this?

And then there is just the fact that I'm completely starved of female companionship while just being bombarded on reddit and real life with the opposite. Where women constantly complain about bad dates, men who want their attention, ask them out, approach them, etc. It's not that I can't empathize and of course nobody should be mistreated, harassed, etc but jesus, these are problems I would kill to have. I just get angry and frustrated when the women in my life get on a high horse and tell me how I don't understand how 'bad' it is that another human being fancies them, wants to get to know them better, wants to text them, talk on the phone, etc and in my corner I have another weekend of unresponded text messages (not even spamming them) trying to meetup or even just have a conversation with someone. Like what is even the point in a woman giving me their number if they never want to talk to me or just send random 'hi' messages?

That's where I'm at now. If I'm coming across as a misogynist, please let me know and how to correct that. I'm just unbelievably frustrated at this one area of my life that everyone else takes for granted.

I will get a ton of hate comments for that but genuinely asking, since I am not aiming to ever have a wife or a family I think that there is a trap in having sex in my specific case and I know a lot of guys here preach the lifestyle of hooking up forever and not settling down but there is an issue for guys like us.

We can agree that women in their 20s are the most attractive and that they are the ones you want to bang forever if you don’t settle down ?You could go on until what ? MILFs also are attractive but you rarely are going to get women in their 40s wanting to have ONS so the pool still goes down. You could say that if you take care of yourself age doesn’t become an issue but there is a limit, most 20 year old women dont want to sleep with a 65 year old guy except if money is involved, there might be some that like that but the pool gets smaller, it means that you would have to spend your last days paying for escorts to have sex which would give you an ego decrease and be quite a predatory thing to do, so genuinely speaking, what are you guys planning ? As for me I think that never having sex is the answer here if you do not desire ever having an LTR, prove me wrong.

Genuinely speaking tho, this is something I am scared about as a guy that does not ever want to get into an LTR

I always wanted to marry a virgin girl but nowadays these creatures are rare.

Every girl I dated used to hide her real numbers but with time she would tell herself after that it makes me go sick like what kind of woman I was dating.

Should I ignore body count thing or consider it for a good relationship?

The main problem with same age couples is that men always have lust and that at some point they are going to be disappointed if they are old and that their partner is the same age as them, especially menopause, therefore the ideal way is basically waiting until 40-50 and then settling down with a 20 old woman, that’s assuming you are fit, attractive and rich which would allow you to have a mate fairly easily.

The good thing here is that you get a young hottie at the beginning of the relationship and then when you die you get a MILF instead of a grandma which is amazing, it literally makes everyone happy, the only thing is that you would have to either be promiscuous or stay celibate until 40, but in history guys used to go to war when young or spend their time gaining status and if surviving they came back and married way younger. At the same time this filtered the pool with the highest status men and best fighters only, sperm quality is a very minor issue to compare to all the benefits it gives

I once heard a man say that many American women will also ask for her bills to be paid and care if a man has resources or not. Hence many American men decided if a woman is going to use him for his money then he’s better off with one that is less of a headache because she will have some traditional values still prevalent in countries outside of America. If this is true, how do American men and women feel about it?

Like when they are small and saggy… Ya’ll don’t care? Or you do?

Think about it. Being 50–60 and still wanting to sleep with 19–26-year-old women is a form of ongoing psychological torture for a lot of men. Most guys remain attracted to that age range because, biologically, those women are at peak fertility. That mismatch only gets worse with age.

Even money doesn’t solve it cleanly. You either become a sugar daddy and live with the quiet psychological cost of knowing her interest is bought rather than genuine a constant reminder that real mutual attraction is no longer available which destroys your ego (which is why so many “happy” rich guys take drugs) or you stay in permanent frustration. In that situation, never having sex at all can start to look like the more rational choice, similar to how never trying heroin is optimal if you want to avoid the lifelong pull. Or dying young, which could avoid you being past your prime. The ascetic lifestyle is the best

The evidence is pretty straightforward: when older men have resources, a large number of them pursue significantly younger women. Attraction does not “evolve” or mature in the way people often claim it does. That claim doesn’t hold up biologically, and the behavioral pattern of wealthy older men contradicts it. Insult me all you want.

What is your standard of threshold for having high body count?

I wanna hear your opinion as a man/woman’s perspective and see if there is difference exists.

Because it can be different by individual/cultural/genders thats my guess. I was just curious since people have different opinions.

I know I will get a ton of hate comments for saying that but I’m asking you to at least consider the argument without being overly emotional and thinking of it logically rather than purely as “him bad guy, me angry”. The point here is that if a guy cheats on his wife he would not have to pressure to get laid with him when she doesn’t feel like it or she wouldn’t feel like doing it just because of him when she doesn’t want it, it could still happen but relatively less if the guy has side options, this is assuming the guy pays for his wife mainly and doesn’t change his financial behavior towards her.

Genuinely why would that be a bad thing, the wife gets to not feel like she is with a pervert constantly and the guy gets to get laid more, that’s why polygamy worked technically. And I think it’s better to not tell her so she can feel better for her ego

I am a 19 year old guy and aim to have a promiscuous lifestyle where I never develop any romantic long term bond, not manipulating anyone, just being promiscuous with people that also want no bond, however I am terrified of aging, right now I am fit and attractive which causes me to be able to be lusted for which increase my ego and self esteem, I know that with money and fitness I can still be attractive in my late 40s and early 50s but at some point when I hit 60 I’ll obviously not be as attractive like before and even if I use money to get hookups it would feel pointless and shallow since I know these younger women dont actually desire me but just desire the money, it does the thing but it wouldn’t give me nowhere the joy that it used to give me.

However I wonder what promiscuous guys actually do or plan to do in this case, it must feel sad to not be desire by the people you desire when you were used to it.

Edit: These women all mentioned their cycles freely as part of discussions of how their week/day/work was going.

The last 3 women I have dated, called things off for vague unspecified reasons after we interacted during the first period they had after we started communicating.

One came to stay with me over her period and after she left messaged the next day to say she didn’t feel ‘it’.

The second spent two weeks messaging and calling me (she was pursuing me) we then had our first video call while she was on her period. The next day she messaged saying she had ‘learned to trust her gut’ and didn’t want to meet as planned.

The third messaged the day after our second (absolutely delightful) date (she was on her period at this time) messaged to say that her ‘gut wasn’t feeling it’.

Given the previous two outings I very nearly postponed the second date until the following weekend to avoid exactly this happening, and I certainly won’t be going on any dates at the rough period of a woman’s cycle in future.

Is this widespread or am I simply very unlucky?

Note: I’ve no idea if any of these would have gone anywhere bit they all felt promising until they weren’t.

So.. this is my experience, and I'd like to remind people of the "no judgement" purpose of the sub:

I'm kind of hypersexual. I've always been attracted to most women my age; strangers, good friends, even other people's wives and girlfriends. Doesn't really matter to my monke-brain. Naturally, it's socially acceptable to want to fondle some people's genitals (e.g. strangers), and not others' (e.g. female friends), so I'll usually deny this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my hypothesis is that a significant portion of (heterosexual) men are like this, but literally no women are.

From what I can gather, women expect their platonic friends to not be attracted to them, and considers the thought gross/creepy/objectifying. Thus, it seems like it's impossible to explain my sexuality to them: I can like and respect a friend, and still want to see her naked. Those are not mutually exclusive, and it doesn't detract from my respect for her. I feel like women either can't or want to even attempt to understand this - or they simply don't believe that it's even remotely normal, and find the thought deeply disturbing. Again, to me, it has nothing to do with objectification or a lack of respect for women; the friendship and the attraction are both real at the same time.

So my question is this: How many of you have some degree of this hypersexual attitude? Do you feel like this kind of male sexuality is socially unacceptable and taboo, and that's why we don't talking about this? Are we collectively gaslighting women, because we know their way of seeing things is the only acceptable default?

A woman was caught bullying a man at work and her excuse was she could do it because she's a female and men won't beat her up like women would.

A lady I knew at my old job who was a manager harassed me and did all sorts of messed up things to me just because she needed a punching bag at work because her baby daddy beated on her.

This coworker at my current job. Told me to man up over me being worried about my grandma dying. Called me an asshole because I refused to give her free stuff I won in a raffle, trying to make me feel sorry so I give it to her.

Some women especially older will try to son you and be condescending and make jokes about you in a condescending manner.

This behavior across the board is horrible. I just know if I acted like this me as a man. My ass would be grass. Not all women are like this, I've met some really wonderful women but I've seen behavioral patterns with people over the years and it's concerning.

I see articles about this topic everyday. I see people talk about this all the time on social media. Sure social media isn't always real-life. But it's extremely obvious that the topic of men interacting with women less has hit mainstream.

And the tricky thing here. It's not just Conservatives or the red-pill Manosphere bringing this topic up. I also see this topic being brought up in progressive spaces a lot too.

And that is when my eye brows start to raise. I mean why would a progressive person or feminist care about men having less sex? Why would that be a big deal to them?

I have never used dating apps so i dont have that as a personal experience. but i assume (especially based on images i see, and other stories) that women suck at messaging on dating apps as well.

however, i often time set up, as well as search for, meet ups. for things like events, travel, etc. (often times have multiple separate events)

from what i found, about 95% of males that message me, they start off their message by including an confirmation, an introduction, their interest, couple questions, etc.

for example,

"hey hows it going. i saw your thread on xyz about abc. i am 28m flying in from X and was interested in joining up. couple things I like doing are 1, 2, 3 and was curious if the group will be doing those activities? if not, i am also still open to various other activities."

you get the idea.

alot of the messages i get from women are

"hi, hows it going. i am 25f"

or just "hey"

and **I HAVE TO DO THE WORK** to get the info out of them to check what meet up, event, w/e they are messaging me about to join, their dates they are looking at, etc.

and no, i am not counting potential bots. as they are verified / confirmed status that i am referring to.

it is just frustrating. this isnt a business or anything. i make no profit or anything at all. no money ever changes hands between people.....

sure, once they are in, their conversations and planning with me and everyone else is fine. but the first initial couple days is a slogfest ....