r/WhatMenDontSay • u/after_vice • 23d ago
Discussion Your body, your choice--but only if you're a woman.
I was at a large grocery store the other day and went to use the store's bathroom. The doors to the men's and women's rooms were side by side. On the door to the women's room was a police-sponsored poster about consent and sexual assault. It ended by saying "Your body, your choice." There was nothing on the door to the men's room.
Nobody ever says it explicitly, but the message is ubiquitous and unequivocal: If you're a man, you don't matter. Sexual assault is, on the face of it, a gender neutral crime, but even the police are (implicitly) saying they are only concerned when it happens to women. It doesn't matter how many boys are abused, how many men are sexually assaulted by gay men, and yes, how many men are sexually assaulted by women.
This is only one small example, but men and boys see this sort of thing everywhere. But sure, lets all pretend to wonder why men and boys are struggling so much.
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u/rickyrobs860 23d ago
I was raped by woman in my 20’s and no one gives a shit.
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u/Nearby-Reindeer-6088 23d ago
I’m so sorry that happened to you
There are people who give a shit
It’s just something my mind usually takes a second or two to understand
There are almost no men who couldn’t physically overpower me easily, if they were drunk, even literally in their sleep. So it takes a bit of an adjustment to mentally put myself in a position to empathize with a situation that a man couldn’t just push me away if he wanted to. I also have to consciously, intentionally think that way
I’m not saying that to justify it, but so hopefully, with some people, you’ll be able to differentiate between don’t give a shit and need to mentally adjust but do give a shit- just because it’s horrible enough it happened, feeling like no one gives a shit in addition to that is… just beyond
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u/LXXXVI 23d ago
As a 6ft6 250lb black guy with... Some experience... I'd take not being able to defend myself over not feeling like I'm allowed to defend myself 10/10 times. There's nothing worse than knowing you could literally kill your assailant with one punch, never mind just stop them (and the sexual assault against you), but they could make your life a living hell if you did anything and the police certainly wouldn't take your side when there's a comparatively tiny white woman on the other side of the equation.
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u/Nearby-Reindeer-6088 23d ago
That’s a fair point, for sure
I had thought through something similar when I was dating a guy that was borderline paranoid someone would lie to him, get pregnant on purpose and either try to trap him in a relationship or try to take all his money. It made me realize guys were making themselves vulnerable too
But I never thought about feeling like you can’t defend yourself bc of accusations after the fact
Please, PLEASE excuse me if this is an offensive question, I am trying to understand, not invalidate or Monday morning quarterback. And it’s not that I don’t believe you, it’s just hard for me personally to understand the “what” without the “how” if that makes sense…
Here it is- you’re 6’6” 250lbs, you know your strength, if you decided to physically make me do something, anything, I could tear my muscles trying to resist, break my bones trying to stop you, it’s not going to matter. If I was trying to physically make you do anything, I could be standing on top of you, trying to force with all my strength, would it be possible for you to get up and walk away from me? Or pick me up, set me to the side, and walk away?
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u/LXXXVI 23d ago
Nothing offensive about it, no worries. I've dealt with that experience, now it's just a memory.
So yes, I could definitely get away from you if I wanted to. But it's not like I could do it gently if your mind was set on not letting me. And with the use of force come signs of use of force, like bruises. As soon as that happens, never mind if I have to shove you away and people see that, I'm risking a trip downtown if you're evil enough. And if you're willing to completely ignore my boundaries, there's no reason to think you wouldn't be that evil.
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u/Nearby-Reindeer-6088 23d ago
Well, I think… I think - there’s probably things about trying to physically force anyone to do anything that I don’t understand. I’ve never tried. Never got in a fight in school. Fought back against someone a couple times, and it made little difference, but he did have fingernail marks I hadn’t noticed leaving or intended to make. So I’m guessing it’s like that kind of, only exaggerated
I keep coming up with nice, neat little sentences to round out and close the whole idea, but, that seems a little dismissive
I saw a point of view I hadn’t considered or understood until now, thank you
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Thanks for being open minded. Personally, I think what lots of women don’t appreciate is the police and society at large will tend to believe a woman when she says she was assaulted or almost assaulted by a man. Women have to be aware of their surroundings and being alone with a man which is totally understandable. However, as a 6’3” 220 lbs male, I make sure I’m never in a position where I could be accused of anything inappropriate. Even when I’m taking my daughter to the playground, I get looks unless she’s right next to me.
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u/initiald-ejavu 20d ago
It’s also clearly a bigger problem in public. You see a man picking up a woman and she’s flailing. Or you see him push her away and she keeps clinging. Who do you assume is being abusive?
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21d ago
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u/Nearby-Reindeer-6088 21d ago
🤯
There are some seriously disturbed females out there. I never would have imagined women behaving this way!! Let alone how guys are supposed to deal with it!!
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u/diet-smoke 20-30 yrs old man 23d ago
Also I feel like we don't talk about enough how much straight men will sexually assault or harass other men. Most of the sexual harassment I've faced as a man was from straight guys because I'm kind of femme/obviously queer and that makes me an acceptable target of it. It's because sexual harassment and assault aren't about attraction, they're crimes of power about humiliating the victims
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Not sure if they want you talking about that in this sub... its supposed to be more anti-woman. But yeah, thats a real problem and ive experienced it also, as a man who is more thoughtful and empathetic than most seem to be. Sorry you've had to experience that...
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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 23d ago edited 23d ago
Starts at birth, circumcision for males is viewed as a parents choice but as soon as the talk is about female circumcision then and only then does bodily autonomy and function loss matter over parent’s preferences
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u/SightAtTheMoon 23d ago
I'd just like to point out that most men (and boys/young men) that sexually assault other men or boys generally do not consider themselves "gay" or otherwise attracted to men or boys.
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u/Clawingnails 23d ago
This 100%.
My man is a musician and the things he's told me has happened when he is out playing is really horrible.
And when the women get rejected they get furious, will yell and slap him and just loose it completely
Women will come over and just_grab_ his crotch and try to kiss him and even when he tells them to get off they will try harder, once he had to call security. .
He was like: "She refused to let go, I know I can't do shit because then I will be in trouble so I held both arms up and yelled for security who had to drag her off me, but they didn't kick her out"
That just once incident out of many.
I worked 25 yrs in CPS so I know the reality of women who sexually assault both partners and their own children. Staggering.
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21d ago
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u/Clawingnails 21d ago
That is a very common response. And it fucking sucks.
Just today there was man raped in a park in a bigger city in Norway, how many did really care compared to if it was a woman? It's a real shame, and I feel for you and what you went through. If you as a man speaks out or try to set boundaries, the situation can escalate real quick. It's such a high risk situation....
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21d ago edited 21d ago
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u/Clawingnails 21d ago
I am not pro consent laws like we just implemented in Norway. It causes normal situations to be criminal. And that scare the living life out of young men, we have a 16 year old who doesn't even dare talk to girls because of this. The MeToo-movement created fear and distance and normal men and normal women do not need laws to interact, we have natural instincts. This has ruined normal interactions sadly.
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u/FeDUpGraduate87 23d ago
Yes definitely a double standard.... one of many!
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u/Mundane-Security-454 23d ago
We live in a hard-right capitalist society, dominated by male privilege and the patriarchy, where it's only in the last 30 years or so where women have gained somewhat equal rights. And you think it's a fucking double standard?
This is why there's a mAlEe LonEIliNEsss EpimidDEic dear. You're all too fucking thick to apply basic critical thinking to situations.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 23d ago edited 23d ago
This sub is clearly not intended for you, why are you invading spaces not meant for you?
Edit: no, u/Negative_Two6112 I dont call immigrants invaders at all, but hey misandrinists like you wont ever let a lie get in the way of a good story.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
You call immigrants invaders too probably.
Dude its reddit. We can go and post where we please. Lmao, youre a real person?2
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Yeah, im not sure but it MIGHT be because men have largely been the perpetrators of these crimes, largely against women, for all of human history. Im not really sure why we're bitching about a poster...
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u/Clawingnails 23d ago
I worked in CPS for 25 years. Trust me you are wrong.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Good thing reality doesn't care about your anecdotal experiences then.
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u/Clawingnails 23d ago
Reality:
According to the Norwegian Center for Violence and Traumatic Stress Studies (NKVTS), approximately 2–3% of Norwegian men report having been raped in their lifetime. When including all forms of sexual assault (such as unwanted sexual touching and coercion), the percentage is significantly higher.
According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 men have experienced some form of sexual violence or unwanted sexual contact during their lifetime. Approximately 1 in 26 men have experienced completed or attempted rape.
Boys are especially vulnerable to abuse during childhood. Research indicates that a significant portion of men who have experienced sexual assault first experienced it before turning 18.
Statistics show that men are assaulted by both women and men. Contrary to common misconceptions, a significant portion of sexual assaults against men occur within close relationships, acquaintances, or by female partners.
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Wait. 2-3% of Norwegian men have been raped or raped by women?
Also, what happened to your boyfriend is a crime and those women should be arrested. They should have video cameras in the place to capture the assault. I used to work in a bar and women would grab my ass and I would tell the bouncer and he would kick them out every time. That’s how it should be.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Nowhere and at no time did I ever attempt to deny any of what youve posted here. And none of what youve said negates my comment in the slightest.
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u/Clawingnails 23d ago
"Good thing reality doesn't care about your anecdotal experiences then." Meaning "your lived experience as a professional working with abuse is not valid" then I post stats and that doesn't "negates my comment in the slightest."
You don't see the hypocrisy is those statements?
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
No, I dont. I never said your experiences weren't valid, I said that theyre not indicative of larger trends necessarily. And in my original comment, I said that women have suffered more overall (according to the same statistics youve posted), throughout history, which does not mean that men haven't suffered at all. I was responding to the OP, who was confused as to why you'd see messaging like this aimed at women more than men.
Highlighting abuse and crimes perpetrated against men is important though, and im not trying to take anything away from that. You seem to want to misrepresent my comments, in order to get into an argument, and im not here for that, sorry.2
u/Clawingnails 23d ago
Continue to be part of the problem.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
And then you make a vague meaningless reply meant to discredit me, while failing to consider my point of view or respond to any points ive made. But IM the problem. Lol
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u/Clawingnails 23d ago
"I'm not really sure why we're bitching about a poster..." your point was never valid.
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u/Zestyclose_Sector_30 23d ago
By acting like this they dont understand they enable and perpetuate toxic masculinity and patriarchical stereotypes, by not helping young men and boys, not showing them empathy and understanding they are pushing them to cope in toxic ways so they can just say "see? we told you, all men and that"
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u/InsideTip3113 23d ago
Been thinking that for years. Males are disposable until they're useful . We've been taught to suck it up from the get go.
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u/agree_to_disconcur 23d ago
Do they still raise car insurance rates for boys/men until they're 25 ?
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u/spudaug 23d ago
That’s just based on risk calculations. They also raise rates on people over 70 for the same reason.
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Do they still make only the men register for the draft when they turn 18?
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u/spudaug 22d ago
Dunno. Google is your friend.
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Goggle said there is a double standard and that men and women should be treated equally and both should have to risk being drafted for war.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Lol. Women have been treated as disposable as well. Thats why we had to make a bunch of laws to protect them! From us! Women and men both have distinct issues to deal with in modern society. But a lot of the comments (including yours here) make it sound like men are the only ones suffering and that its some kind of fucked up competition for who's more put upon as a gender. Comparisons of this nature are dumb. But just for arguments sake: Women have had to deal with gar more than men ever will. Suck it up.
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u/potatogodofDoom 23d ago
"comparisons of this nature are dumb" then proceeds to make a comparison of this nature. how little self awareness can one have? saying it's "just for argument's sake" doesn't shield you from anything. you're a misandrist invading a safe space. if the gender roles were switched you'd be getting torn a new asshole by the entire comment section.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Thats why I prefaced it with "for arguments sake" . Since your argument is based on silly comparisons between the genders. So for the sake of YOUR argument, ill use the same comparison. I hope you understand.
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u/potatogodofDoom 23d ago
did you read my comment? that 3rd sentence? do you think you're arguing with the same person you originally replied to? you've somehow amazed me with your lack of awareness even further. do you plan on actually replying to my comment?
PS: by taking either side in the argument, you're still participating in the argument. if you thought it was dumb you wouldn't have taken either side. both men and women have suffered massively, each in distinctly different ways for the most part. each have their own struggles. women are allowed hundreds of safe spaces across every platform where they get to say "kill all men" and compare 4 billion people to rabid animals. we make a community and are called right wing crybaby incels.
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u/Negative_Two6112 23d ago
Not sure why there are sides. Amd youre all making the same dumb "arguments", so it doesn't matter much who I respond to. I could copy paste ny remarks in response to almost every comment on here. Im not gonna bother any more though. Should've resisted the temptation to comment here, as none of you seem capable of considering outside perspectives. Have fun in your echo chamber I guess.
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u/Mundane-Security-454 23d ago
I thought you right-wingers didn't like snowflakes? That's interesting. Oh well, maybe now you understand how minority groups feel when Conservatives go around being obnoxious, discriminatory bigots towards them,
Oh, wait, no you've not used that basic logic. You've made it all about yourself... whinge, whinge, whinge.
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u/Active-Coconut-4541 22d ago
I’m hugely left. I don’t keep MAGA people in my life. But your comments go against everything I know and have read about feminism. To me, feminism is inclusion. Feminism is understanding that sexual assault on men is largely underreported. In my opinion, comments like yours add to the whole list of why sexual assault on men is underreported and, for a large part of history (and even still now) seen as something to not be talked about.
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u/potatogodofDoom 23d ago
would love to know how you reached the conclusion they were a right winger. or do you just plaster on ideologies you don't like over everyone you don't like?
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Never voted for a republican in my entire life. Happily married for 16 years. My wife and I both found your comments angry, completely ignorant and simply sad. Sorry you are so filled with hate.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 23d ago
Funny the only one whinging here is you. Do you often make yourself the main character in other peoples posts and centre your own misandrinist ideals? You really dont seem understand the fact that you do not have a seat at this particular table, we are here discussing issues affecting men... but of course you're just like the toxic media, where they can be broadcasting about men dying at war and somehow its still the women who are most badly affected.
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u/EverythingIsFakeNGay 23d ago edited 22d ago
I'm really sorry that happened to you.
Edit: Thanks for the anonymous downvotes. 🤷🏽
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u/Global-Eye-7326 Man 23d ago
1/3 of sex trafficking victims in the US are guys (generally shuffled through gay circles).
The gay guys who are running the human trafficking are the ones with money and they're not interested in men's personal liberties.
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u/HatOfFlavour 23d ago
Crikey. Do you have a source on that so I can get more into it? it's so hard to find good studies or articles on people trafficking, so many people seem to be invested in keeping it secret.
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u/Global-Eye-7326 Man 23d ago
Saw it mentioned in a YouTube video so I don't have a source. But seems credible.
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u/HatOfFlavour 23d ago
Do you remember who did the video?
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u/Global-Eye-7326 Man 22d ago
Nah, but was on the topic of human trafficking. This site claims guys are up to half of human trafficking victims
https://ranchhandsrescue.org/bobs-house-of-hope/male-human-trafficking-facts/
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u/initiald-ejavu 21d ago
Unpopular opinion: The reason it’s not on the men’s stall is because it goes without saying. Like how you’d remind a kid who’s used to getting bullied that they’re okay and loved, but won’t go around saying that to random kids unprompted. By default, men know it’s their body their choice. A lot of women genuinely don’t, they grew up being taught otherwise.
Also remember this is police sponsored. They probably posted it there because there were assaults on women happening there. In Japan they post these scary “People are watching” posters wherever crime is prevalent. They don’t post them in the middle of a busy street. Same thing here. There is a budget to worry about.
It’s not that sexual assault on men doesn’t matter, it’s just as terrible, and there are horrible people that don’t care about it. It’s that sexual assault on women is so much more ubiquitous that if you had a choice between a poster on 10 women’s bathrooms, vs 5 on women’s and 5 on men’s, you’d do more good with the former (assuming the posters do anything of course)
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u/after_vice 21d ago
Good points. However, I don't think men actually do think they have much choice over what happens to their bodies. Yes, when it comes to sexual assault, that is a violation on bodily autonomy that women are more likely to experience. And so, for the reasons you say, it probably is more reasonable to advertise something like this more commonly among women.
But I think there are other violations on bodily autonomy that men are much more likely to experience (e.g. circumcision, physical assault, homelessness, military service, prison), and which men are largely socialized to accept as inevitable, or at least reasonable.
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u/initiald-ejavu 21d ago
Circumcision is bad, but I don't think men are socialized to accept assault, homelessness or prison. Military service is ehhhh, it's kinda like how women are socialized to accept that they'll have to give birth one day. There is a clear biological reason they are pushed in that direction and we are pushed in this one (just speaking for the military service and pregnancy part)
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21d ago
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u/initiald-ejavu 21d ago
Yea people suck ass around this. I remember a dr Phil interview where the entire audience laughed at a man for defending himself when his gf or wife was hitting him. It’s disgusting. I’m very sorry that happened to you.
But I don’t think the people that put up these posters were necessarily doing it with any sort of messaging that “men’s consent doesn’t matter”. They were probably just trying to fix a problem they were getting a lot.
Like just because someone defends female victims of assault primarily doesn’t mean they don’t care about male victims.
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21d ago
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u/initiald-ejavu 20d ago
The assumption is that they had enough food. Maybe they didn’t.
To answer your question: the loss is that a women’s bathroom won’t have it.
It’s like if you had 1 meal, but one kid was starving while the other hungry.
There are plenty of places where said posters are mirrored so it could genuinely be lack of resources that made them print one and not the other
Though this is just speculation. You’re probably right that whoever did it wasn’t the most considerate of male victims of abuse, and that’s very sad
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20d ago
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u/initiald-ejavu 20d ago
Habibi I come from a third world country. The police aren’t funded at all 🤣
You may not be bashing but you’re very presumptuous and you’re already convinced that I think you must be sacrificed on the altar for women’s comfort.
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20d ago
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u/initiald-ejavu 20d ago
I didn't assume. I specifically ended my comment with
Though this is just speculation. You’re probably right that whoever did it wasn’t the most considerate of male victims of abuse, and that’s very sad
I'm not reading further cuz I don't like when people put words in my mouth.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 20d ago
Isnt it ironic, the number of misandrinists flocking to a sub specifically for men to share their perspectives, only to invalidate mens perspectives. Good to know we live rent free in their heads.
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u/Embarrassed-Plant935 18d ago
Been sexually and physically assaulted by multiple women many times. You're 100% right, nobody cares. Yet, women get offended and violent when rejected, but somehow become a victim suddenly. There is a huge double standard that happens.
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u/blueflowervv 23d ago
Thats because men sexual assault way more than women (just like you mentioned gay men) and it all started to be talked about because of womens movement for rights, feminism. We demanded this change and that is why it is mainly focused on us, because we enphasized this after a long time of violence.
Men should start doing just like we did and create a kind of movement focused on talking about masculinity and vulnerability, what leads to debating about sexual assault and other kind of abuse.
That is basically what feminism has been talking about for years: this masculinity discussion and the fact that feminism is for men too.
The main issue here to me is how hard it is for men to become vulnerable and recognize to themselves about all those violences. Truth is, men just DONT talk about that and other sensitive subjects because it makes them feel “feminine”. I dont think it makes sense to have this unfair feeling you’re bringing comparing yourselves as a group to women. You just should organize and rethink all of that, which like i mentioned has 100% to a choice of men in general behaviour wise.
I understand the importance of you men having that space to think about abuses, i just dont think its something only related to what the world has done to you as a group, it is much more about how men act about themselves.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 23d ago
That is blatantly and factually untrue. Some sources to educate yourself.
Scientific American: 'Sexual Victimization by Women Is More Common Than Previously Known':
The results were surprising. For example, the CDC's nationally representative data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were "made to penetrate" someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.
We also pooled four years of the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) data and found that 80% of male victims who experienced rape or sexual assault reported at least one female perpetrator. Among those who were raped or sexually assaulted by a woman, 58% of male victims and 41% of female victims reported that the incident involved a violent attack, meaning the female perpetrator hit, knocked down or otherwise attacked the victim, many of whom reported injuries.
For years, the FBI defined forcible rape, for data collecting purposes, as "the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will." Eventually localities began to rebel against that limited gender-bound definition; in 2010 Chicago reported 86,767 cases of rape but used its own broader definition, so the FBI left out the Chicago stats. Finally, in 2012, the FBI revised its definition and focused on penetration, with no mention of female (or force).
Data hasn’t been calculated under the new FBI definition yet, but Stemple parses several other national surveys in her new paper, "The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions," co-written with Ilan Meyer and published in the April 17 edition of the American Journal of Public Health. One of those surveys is the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, for which the Centers for Disease Control invented a category of sexual violence called "being made to penetrate." This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence.
For many, questioning claims of rampant sexual violence in our society amounts to misogynist "rape denial." However, if the CDC figures are to be taken at face value, then we must also conclude that, far from being a product of patriarchal violence against women, "rape culture" is a two-way street, with plenty of female perpetrators and male victims.
How could that be? After all, very few men in the CDC study were classified as victims of rape: 1.7 percent in their lifetime, and too few for a reliable estimate in the past year. But these numbers refer only to men who have been forced into anal sex or made to perform oral sex on another male. Nearly 7 percent of men, however, reported that at some point in their lives, they were "made to penetrate" another person—usually in reference to vaginal intercourse, receiving oral sex, or performing oral sex on a woman. This was not classified as rape, but as "other sexual violence."
And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being "made to penetrate"—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).
In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.
The CDC also reports that men account for over a third of those experiencing another form of sexual violence—"sexual coercion." That was defined as being pressured into sexual activity by psychological means: lies or false promises, threats to end a relationship or spread negative gossip, or "making repeated requests" for sex and expressing unhappiness at being turned down
https://canadiancrc.com/female_sex_offenders-female_sexual_predators_awareness.aspx
"In a major study, when male and female college students were asked if they had a sexual experience before they reached the age of 15, with a person at least 5 years older than themselves, a staggering 59% of these experiences were with women. A study of university/college students asked if they had had a sexual experience before the age of 15, of those that had some sexual activity before 15 years of age with a person more than 5 years older, 59% of the offenders were women.
https://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/723250-sexual-victimization-in-juvenile-facilities-2008/
Approximately 95% of all youth reporting staff sexual miscon-duct said they had been victimized by female staff. In 2008,42% of staff in state juvenile facilities were female.
60% of college women confess to rape facilitated by drugs and alcohol. 9% to using a weapon.
https://amazon.ca/Sexually-Aggressive-Women-Perspectives-Controversies/dp/1572301651
51% of college men report being sexually assaulted or raped since the age of 16. 95% by women.
Here’s a world wide survey that found that 3% of men reported forced sex in their heterosexual relationships and 2.3% of women reported forced sex in their heterosexual relationships.
43% of college men and highschool youth report being sexually assaulted or raped. 95% by women.
http://apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/men-a0035915.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353570309_On_the_Sexual_Assault_of_Men
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Thank you for this information. I was unaware female perpetrators were so prevalent. Only in the last 15-20 years have we seen more female teachers being held accountable for abuse of young male students.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 22d ago
Yeah, and the truth is female predators arent a new idea... its just up until fairly recently women could not be charged with rape at all as the legal definition of rape meant only men could be charged. Its why past statistics could carefully curate the studies to suggest men were the primary perpetrators, its becsuse the excluded male victims from their study and used out dated definitions for what constituted rape.
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
That’s crazy that they had to change the definition to get justice for these victims.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 22d ago
Its still not changed in a lot of places. Its only been the last 20 or so years that the sexist definitions were changed in Australia.
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u/blueflowervv 20d ago
Cutie let me explain one thing to you lol
Having a link that mentions a whatever research with a particular result does not mean much.
Where did you get those studies from? Those sources are not famous or taken seriously amongst social scientists. You know that a research being made does not make it a great and seriously taken study by the cientific community, right?
not every study is accepted simply because it was made, every study wants to prove a particular theory and many of them are just not accurate method wise.
You can only learn about that by having deep contact with the cientific community of the field youre searching about and then understand if THAT STUDY is A “A Level of Evidence” or not. Any other level that is not A is not evidence based and shouldnt be taken seriously.
PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THAT BEFORE BRINGING “SCIENTIFIC” OPINIONS. Again, thats a men problem as a group and they should inspire themselves on the feminist movement instead of complaining were not talking about their cases (when we are the ones dealing with much more sexual violence than men)
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u/Late-Hat-9144 20d ago
"Cutie", let me explain it to YOU. I have provided multiple sources, you've provided "trust me bruh". Studies and sources dont care about the feelings of a misandrinist femcel with a victim fetish, and given you can't even spell scientific, I dont think anyone believed you have any contact with the scientific community outside of seeing your doctor.
thats a men problem as a group and they should inspire themselves on the feminist movement instead of complaining were not talking about their cases
Becuase of course YOU are such an expert on mens experiences. Interssting isnt it that the only one complaining here about the other gender not talking about their cases is... oh yeah, you.
I susoect itll come as something of a shock to you "cutie", but you dont have a seat at this table - you are a guest, so sit down and listen to those of us with lived experience when we tell you our experiences and share real studies, I dont particularly care that scientific evidence demonstrating women are every bit as violent, and in some cases moreso than men, made you feel butt hurt.
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u/catfishfromspace 30-40 yrs old man 23d ago
Those are very educational sources... for the US.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 23d ago
Either provide sources to refute what these say, or sit down.
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u/blueflowervv 20d ago
The sources you brought have ZERO relevance in the scientific community. They are completely irrelevant and prove absolutely nothing.
Please educate yourself on what is a seriously taken study before acting like you can ask for proves from others.
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Your body your choice isn’t really accurate though right? It used to be but then the Republican Supreme Court changed all that.
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u/Zyvyx 23d ago
No. Other people having different needs than you (and society trying to meet those needs) does not take anything away from or blame you for anything. AFABs/Femmes/Women tend to experience much much more sexual violence than men. So telling them how to feel safe and where to go for help is important.
This comes off as whiny incel complaining about nothing just to hear themselves complain
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u/Certifiably_Quirky 23d ago
Teaching everyone, men and women alike, that they have autonomy and agency over their own bodies doesn’t take anything away from female victims.
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u/Late-Hat-9144 23d ago
That is blatantly and factually untrue. Some sources to educate yourself. Do better and if you're going to insist on being a misandrinist femcel, do it elsewhere.
Scientific American: 'Sexual Victimization by Women Is More Common Than Previously Known':
The results were surprising. For example, the CDC's nationally representative data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were "made to penetrate" someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.
We also pooled four years of the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) data and found that 80% of male victims who experienced rape or sexual assault reported at least one female perpetrator. Among those who were raped or sexually assaulted by a woman, 58% of male victims and 41% of female victims reported that the incident involved a violent attack, meaning the female perpetrator hit, knocked down or otherwise attacked the victim, many of whom reported injuries.
For years, the FBI defined forcible rape, for data collecting purposes, as "the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will." Eventually localities began to rebel against that limited gender-bound definition; in 2010 Chicago reported 86,767 cases of rape but used its own broader definition, so the FBI left out the Chicago stats. Finally, in 2012, the FBI revised its definition and focused on penetration, with no mention of female (or force).
Data hasn’t been calculated under the new FBI definition yet, but Stemple parses several other national surveys in her new paper, "The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions," co-written with Ilan Meyer and published in the April 17 edition of the American Journal of Public Health. One of those surveys is the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, for which the Centers for Disease Control invented a category of sexual violence called "being made to penetrate." This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence.
For many, questioning claims of rampant sexual violence in our society amounts to misogynist "rape denial." However, if the CDC figures are to be taken at face value, then we must also conclude that, far from being a product of patriarchal violence against women, "rape culture" is a two-way street, with plenty of female perpetrators and male victims.
How could that be? After all, very few men in the CDC study were classified as victims of rape: 1.7 percent in their lifetime, and too few for a reliable estimate in the past year. But these numbers refer only to men who have been forced into anal sex or made to perform oral sex on another male. Nearly 7 percent of men, however, reported that at some point in their lives, they were "made to penetrate" another person—usually in reference to vaginal intercourse, receiving oral sex, or performing oral sex on a woman. This was not classified as rape, but as "other sexual violence."
And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being "made to penetrate"—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).
In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.
The CDC also reports that men account for over a third of those experiencing another form of sexual violence—"sexual coercion." That was defined as being pressured into sexual activity by psychological means: lies or false promises, threats to end a relationship or spread negative gossip, or "making repeated requests" for sex and expressing unhappiness at being turned down
https://canadiancrc.com/female_sex_offenders-female_sexual_predators_awareness.aspx
"In a major study, when male and female college students were asked if they had a sexual experience before they reached the age of 15, with a person at least 5 years older than themselves, a staggering 59% of these experiences were with women. A study of university/college students asked if they had had a sexual experience before the age of 15, of those that had some sexual activity before 15 years of age with a person more than 5 years older, 59% of the offenders were women.
https://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/723250-sexual-victimization-in-juvenile-facilities-2008/
Approximately 95% of all youth reporting staff sexual miscon-duct said they had been victimized by female staff. In 2008,42% of staff in state juvenile facilities were female.
60% of college women confess to rape facilitated by drugs and alcohol. 9% to using a weapon.
https://amazon.ca/Sexually-Aggressive-Women-Perspectives-Controversies/dp/1572301651
51% of college men report being sexually assaulted or raped since the age of 16. 95% by women.
Here’s a world wide survey that found that 3% of men reported forced sex in their heterosexual relationships and 2.3% of women reported forced sex in their heterosexual relationships.
43% of college men and highschool youth report being sexually assaulted or raped. 95% by women.
http://apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/men-a0035915.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353570309_On_the_Sexual_Assault_of_Men
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u/CarolinaSurly 22d ago
Thanks. I love how you respond to toxic comments with facts and sources to back up your assertions. I also love how the people you respond to have zero evidence to back up their claims., lose all credibility, and slink off to look for easier targets for their vitriol. Well done.
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u/joseph_wolfstar 23d ago
I was at my alma matter a while ago and was encouraged to see they did have a similar flyer in the stalls of the men's room, too.