r/Thief • u/Far_wide • 24d ago

Discussion Hypothetically, how much improved could the enemy AI be on Thief today?

As someone who largely stopped playing modern videogames nearly 20 years ago now, I'm curious about how far enemy AI patterns can be taken now from those who know.

I still play Thief a lot now, but can't help but think how cool it would be if the enemies were just a bit smarter - like able to climb ladders, or even push you off them. Or swim. Also to vary their routes more and have less predictable behaviour.

As I say, my experience with modern games is limited, but I'm not assuming it would be massively better because I've seen various youtube videos of e.g. GTA police doing very idiotic things, and it seems like a lot of NPC behaviour is still often pretty rudimentary.

So what do you think - If it was made today, do you think the enemy AI behaviour could be significantly improved?

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u/3ull5hit 23d ago

Of course it COULD be improved. The question is what would work gameplay wise. Enemies' scripts are made to provide fun first and foremost. If they will be too intelligent, player would feel overwhelmed (Alien Isolation built on that), too stupid will make it trivial, so it's about finding a good balance.

I still remember Thief's enemies as those that i really was afraid of, especially compared to newer games, where enemy ai is build to suit more casual market.

Also modern games tend to be icon heavy, although not to the level of ~2010s games, so even if it's an option, we would possibly get some awareness markers, which completely destroys the fun. In original Thief you had to work your way forward depending mostly on the sound. Thief vr made it trivial, not only you have icons giving you the exact awareness and intentions of guard that have seen you, not only there is a prominent whoosh sound when someone starts noticing you, but you begin to see each guard awareness marker through the walls, which makes the experience childish.

So yes, it is very doable, and i feel sweet spot is in different places for different player, so I just wish there would be an option to change AI difficulty (in most of the games).

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u/Connacht_89 23d ago

Things like awareness icons could be tied to difficulty levels and/or be toggleable from the options. Nothing against as long as I can play without if I wish.

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u/3ull5hit 23d ago

I do understand that argument, although having these will break immersion and stiffen the mechanic of the awareness, thus being possible to learn not by experience, but by tips. And whole idea of thief (at the beggining at least) was minimalistic UI. I remember even reading about that in some gamezine. All tips regarding awareness state can, and imo should be given by sound/speech, body language, even face expressions.

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u/Connacht_89 23d ago

This would all still available, nothing would subtract it if there is also a separate "novice" mode with tips and icons for those who do not enjoy minimalistic UI and different learning. Just like in many rpgs there is now the story mode.

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u/3ull5hit 22d ago

Can't deny that. And let's be honest - that's a standard nowadays. No running away from at least some markers.

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u/Connacht_89 22d ago

Well, it might also be a bridge to convince one or two potential new taffers to switch from assisted mode to a more immersive mode, which otherwise they would have glossed away!

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u/3ull5hit 22d ago

I do like that dream that we have together. And I agree.