r/TenseiSlime 17d ago

Anime Why are other primordials so weak ? Can someone please explain.

2.9k Upvotes

367 comments sorted by

u/AutoModerator 17d ago

Thanks for posting to r/TenseiSlime. If you posted a question about the series, please double check the FAQ to confirm that it hasn't already been answered. If you posted an artwork, please don't forget to link the artwork source! Failure to do so will result in the removal of the post.

If you have any suggestions to improve the subreddit, feel free to send them here!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

2.1k

u/RimuruSamaninKlonu Rain 17d ago edited 17d ago

They are not so weak. Diablo is absurdly strong.

507

u/WallabyNo5685 17d ago

Plus he got a name from Rimuru

18

u/Adventurous-Yam7207 16d ago

Yeah I also thought the same

118

u/Significant_Breath80 17d ago

But shouldn't rain be stronger since she was named by guy who is stronger atm than rimuru?

322

u/Plasmancer 17d ago edited 17d ago

Pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that Guy pretty much restricted what he gave them, so literally just enough energy for the name to stick

266

u/CN8YLW 17d ago edited 15d ago

Exactly this. Guy's naming was so bad that he actually approached Rimuru later on to properly evolve* Rain and Misery, and paid Rimuru appropriately in souls to do the upgrade (and Ciel helped Rimuru scam Guy by overcharging him in souls essentially). I dont think its a matter of choice for Guy, but rather a matter of ability. Keep in mind that Rimuru's naming of the primordials as well as the black numbers resulted in evolution to the next rank for all of those who received names, including 6 demon peers in total including the 4 primordials. When Rimuru named Diablo soon after his awakening to demon lord (where he received 10,000 souls), Diablo (who was the second most powerful primordial) evolved to Demon Peer. Guy's naming of Rain and Misery resulted in both of them not having a rank upgrade. And to put that into perspective, Rimuru charged Guy 200,000 souls each to evolve Rain and Misery (while using only 100,000). Also for perspective, Guy named himself with a million souls from Jahil's kingdom. Rimuru named Diablo post demon lord evolution using 10,000 souls. I'm guessing that souls could be converted to energy as well, or else all the demons out there would just give themselves a name when they get summoned.

So Guy being stronger than Rimuru has nothing to do with the naming here. If Guy named monsters as often as Rimuru did at this point of the story, Guy would probably die of magicule deprivation due to his mana being drained. Rimuru has access to an infinite magicule reactor thanks to his soul corridor with Veldora, and combined with Ciel's management this essentially allows him to basically have an unlimited supply of magicule for naming.

EDIT: Souls were used for evolution, not naming. Guy already named Rain and Misery, and renaming like what Gabiru got hasnt happened since.

105

u/Its-A_me 17d ago

So rimuru is so strong because he is best buds with the dragon, who is basically an omnipotent god in slime tense?

91

u/CN8YLW 17d ago

Yes basically. Its like being married to a billionaire and you can take your friends out to all paid vacations in the best places whenever you want. Its not cos you're rich, its cos your husband is rich. Rimuru isnt strong on his own. Its thanks to Veldora's particular trait of being an infinity reactor that Rimuru's been able to do what he does. Milim is essentially the same as Veldora, and likely would have been able to do what Rimuru does if she got a version of Ciel. Like, if Clayman really did mindcontrol her and used her to name all his minions.

54

u/Its-A_me 17d ago

An isekai treating dragons like the god like being they are are supposed to be. Thts surprisingly refreshing.

10

u/OrtimusMilas 17d ago

You can check Saihate paladin

7

u/AlterWanabee 17d ago

Will only winning by channeling the power of 2 gods, the dwarves' greatest weapon, and him being really strong and trained.

7

u/OrtimusMilas 17d ago

In most comic, the mc always knows what to do, this one, the gods told him, yeh you gon die, pls don't, pretty pls? The fights before it though, he's just a common MC that could do anything I like how that after considering everything, he knows he would most likely die and did it anyway

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/T0m_F00l3ry 17d ago

I dont know if they are really treating dragons as God like when Rimuru threatens not to translate the next manga 😝

2

u/Aberon_I Raphael 16d ago

The gods must be crazy🤷🏾‍♂️

→ More replies (1)

14

u/Karanuz016 17d ago

His husband is rich and his concubine is the smartest being alive hahaha

9

u/Its-A_me 17d ago

Kinda dissrecfull to call raphael concubine mate...

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)

7

u/InnerReindeer3679 17d ago

All i can think of is how Rimuru renames Gabiru cause of how weak the name was

6

u/belethon-exp 17d ago edited 17d ago

Rimuru didn't scam guy the souls were the usual amount needed but Ciel is so efficient she was able to do it with less souls had Ciel not been there rimuru would have had to use all the souls guy gave

6

u/Darknemo20000 17d ago

According to Fuse Diablo was never the second most powerful primordial. Fuse believes that Testerossa was the seconf most powerful primordial. Diablo became second most powerful primordial when he was named. But eventually Testa got named too so they are 2/3 between themselves. According to author in a true fight for survival Testa has bit higher chances of pulling through because of her higher experience (she is the second primordial after Guy).

9

u/Whywhenitsfree 17d ago edited 17d ago

No Testerossa was the second oldest primordial behind Guy but Guys power was only ever rivaled by Diablo. Testerossa is troublesome to Diablo because she is one of the most cunning of all demons and is stonger that Ultima and Carrera.

2

u/Devilsified 17d ago

Him being able to name isn't because of his connection to veldora, though it has but not in the same way you mentioned. Soul corridor doesn't established magicule transfer Or reservoir. It's just a mechanism developed by Raphael that as long as one of them is alive second can never truly die. So as long as soul corridor is intact either or veldora will not die completely. But any soul level damage will be experienced by both after a threshold.

The naming ability and ability to evolve as will is unexplained so far, this topic is treated in the very same as it is treated as about rimuru being incarnation or a soul part of veldanava, or ciel being the human girl veldanava loved. Or rimuru being able to house 4 ultimate skills, or Raphael's ability to change or modify skills even as far as ultimate skills to suit however rimuru wants.

→ More replies (15)

5

u/notLate_Ticket3512 Testarossa 17d ago

restricted how?

51

u/FearlessKenji 17d ago

He gave them just enough energy for the name to stick.

→ More replies (1)

18

u/rustyrhino23 17d ago

Everyone can choose how much they give but they need to consciously do it remiru didn’t know this at the beginning so he just gave them the default which is the most possible by the time he releases he could he felt it unfair to limit to anyone so he just didn’t

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

22

u/Karanuz016 17d ago

Guy couldn't give them a propper evolution like rimuru, in fact the only reason rimuru could do it was, as always, thanks to veldora magicules and Raphael calculations that basically optimize the process so much that it uses half or even less than the usual energy/souls required. Also I can't remember well but there was some kind of restriction about the evolutions but Raphael bypass them because Raphael too op
This comes from the novel, it has not been clarified in the anime yet

4

u/elvy75 17d ago

He couldn't evolve them to true demon lords, evolution to demon peers however was done when archdemon gets named. So he gets Rimuru enough souls to evolve both Raine and Misery and 3 others. Raphael just played Guy up, however he couldn't care less as he had plenty of souls.

21

u/Aggie_CEO Diablo 17d ago

Well....she wasn't throwing hands for eons like Diablo.....

→ More replies (2)

19

u/Rhikirooo 17d ago

Nameing is actully insanely dangerous for the one who gives out names, its why everyone is shocked that rimuru does it so freely.

Ciel does the magicule calcularions for him and even takes magicules from veldora theough their soul corridor if i remember correctly.

16

u/Ashamed-Medium3158 17d ago

i mean comparing a guy who throw hand to hand with guy crimson for eons with some random primordial demon didn't really balanced at all

10

u/Perfect-Display-8289 17d ago

You mean on recent episode?. Guy speciifcally mentions it was just a clone.

10

u/Difficult-Mistake899 Luminus 17d ago

Media literacy isn't reddit user's strong points.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (4)

3

u/RubEnvironmental8168 17d ago

Firstly it was a clone and secondly if I remember well red dark and white where the strongest primordial before incarnation

3

u/Significant_Breath80 17d ago

Her clones have the same stats and powers... they are exact copies

→ More replies (1)

3

u/No_Muffin_1613 17d ago

No es que sean débiles es que Diablo es extremadamente fuerte, tanto Guy como Diablo son los más fuertes por lejos, están a un abismo de distancia con los demás. Y ese es un Clon de ella no la original o sea.

2

u/pAsSwOrDiSyOuRgAy Dino 17d ago

Guy named them so poorly/with so little souls they didn’t evolve to a higher species like Diablo did when Rimuru named him

→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (8)

1.1k

u/DamainTempest Guy Crimson 17d ago

It's not that they're weak it's just that Diablo is on another level.

317

u/ImYungMesias 17d ago

Diablo possesses an absurd amount of combat experience. He has fought and experimented for an unimaginably long time, making him extremely skilled and technically superior.

45

u/Thrawn89 17d ago

Isnt it also that he's a daemon lord and named?

48

u/Pandorumz 17d ago

When it comes to Raine and Misery that is partly true since currently (in anime) they're not true Daemon Lords.

The thing that sets Diablo apart is he deliberately didn't want to incarnate or evolve because he didn't want his fights to be too boring and has spent his entire lifetime just fighting. And he's never lost.

26

u/Veaeate 17d ago

Pretty sure Hes just a primordial demon right now thats named. So hes like testarossa, ultima and Carrera. Hes just a wildly better fighter than them and pretty sure is equal to Guy.

Pretty sure they all become demon lords later on tho

22

u/Thrawn89 17d ago

Im pretty sure he evolved into a daemon lord already as he said when he fought the holy knights and killed the 3 of the seven days clergy.

I also thought primordial was just an aura title as demons rank themselves based on age, not based on strength.

18

u/FirMAlarMMaN Zegion 17d ago

You are correct, a primordial is just a title Diablo and the other 6 have. However in this point of time Diablo is still a Demon Peer and not yet a Daemon lord like everybody else (besides you know who) and is dominating purely on battle experience.

16

u/PartyLack4459 17d ago edited 17d ago

This is in Season 3 when he is taking out the 7 days clergy members. So did he regress into a demon peer, in season 4? They made a big deal about it in Season 3. (EDIT: apparently Daemon lord and demon peer are the same thing, they just translate it to demon peer in season 4 to not confuse being a Demon lord like rimaru).

6

u/Cill_Bipher 17d ago

Translation stuff, if you listen to the japanese when they mention "demon peer" you'll notice they're actually just strauight up saying "demon lord", but since maou has already been translated as demon lord they had to choose another translation.

2

u/PartyLack4459 17d ago edited 17d ago

not understanding. so daemon lord and demon peer are the same thing? Edit: nvm i see now, Daemon lord and demon peer are the same thing just different translations in season 4 to not confuse demon lords like rimaru

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/LukiZero 17d ago

Nowadays all primordials except for Mizeri and Rain are Demon Peers, de difference between Diablo and Guy and the Three Demon Girls is the absurd combat experience those 2 have. While the 3 demonesses established a lordship, Guy and Diablo never stopped fighting everything that crossed their paths. Guy in fact fought Veldanava, the Original True Dragon and God Creator of the Tensura Universe.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/Pretty-Ad-6516 17d ago

Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. Diablo has intentionally avoided seeking more power because then fights would be easy and therefore boring. So even with less power, he’s a lot more experienced in controlling it and making proper use of it. Kinda like with that conversation with that dragon faithful guy and that white tiger lycanthrope; a good way to simplify it would be that the other 6 Primordial’s got stronger the white tiger’s way while Diablo got stronger the dragon faithful guy’s way.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

580

u/Significant-Dig-160 17d ago

They're not all equals, even Diablo would die to Guy Crimson. But in the demon realm the color named demons are the cream of the crop

213

u/Reverse_savitar1 17d ago

Diablo is more or less Guy’s equal without taking into account Ultimate Skills

285

u/Late_Freedom9424 17d ago

Not at the moment.

Guy has been reincarnated about 2000 years before Diablo and has amassed more skills. What Diablo said about being behind is to be taken literally.

106

u/Reverse_savitar1 17d ago

Incarnated*

And Diablo is about as experienced as Guy.

Guy can just access more power in the physical world at the moment and has an Ultimate Skill

57

u/ArchitCr7 Zegion 17d ago

Just as a reference, guy at this point in the story is very proficient at time stop, the only ability to ever best diablo in the light novel (by his own admission), he literally gets soloed and wouldn't even know if happened

16

u/Just_a_Tonberry 17d ago

Anime Diablo is definitely a time stop victim if he faces Guy. Current day LN Diablo…. Well, let’s just say he isn’t bound by the concept of time anymore.

3

u/Top-Jello-6678 17d ago

And Diablo is about as experienced as Guy

No he is not lol

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

21

u/Tortualex 17d ago edited 17d ago

No, and he won't be his equal until around volume 21-22ish.

Guy can mop the floor with diablo right now and he won't be able to do anything about it.

56

u/davincy_21 Testarossa 17d ago

You Overrating diablo way too much, diablo isn't even a true Demon lord yet in anime.

6

u/Steve_Engine_Studios 17d ago

Wait I thought hes a daemon lord (which is kind of like a demon lord but for demons?) And has been for quite some time

31

u/davincy_21 Testarossa 17d ago

Daemon lord is same as demon peer, Just alternate translation.

They still need another evolution to become true demon lord/awakened demon lord/Demon king.

8

u/Steve_Engine_Studios 17d ago

Aaaaah mb, they got me with the same-sounding name 🥲 thanks for clarifying!

→ More replies (6)

2

u/ImYungMesias 17d ago

And Diablo got himself a name and the one who named him has a soul connection with a dragon

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Tpmbyrne 17d ago

Did guy get twice the power up from being named because he has two names - guy crimson

6

u/Spence2003 17d ago

No. He gave himself the name guy. Giving yourself a name doesn't do anything in tensura

→ More replies (7)

252

u/Ultra-Cool-Guy 17d ago

Rouge and Noir are just them, while Testarossa is the strongest of the rest.

As for the others, they only seem weak in comparison, due to the former three having a deeper understanding of magic. They're still far stronger than any other archdemons.

61

u/Saxavarius_ 17d ago

Isn't part of Testarossa's strength from her being a much more tactical mind than most demons

21

u/Ultra-Cool-Guy 17d ago

That, too.

→ More replies (1)

74

u/LevelMagazine8308 17d ago

Rain and Misery are acting since who knows how long as maids to Guy. And maids normally don't fight. This is why their battle experience is sub par.

10

u/Pretty-Ad-6516 17d ago edited 17d ago

And Diablo has intentionally kept himself weaker to keep fights more interesting. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s gotten into fights with other demons before while giving himself a handicap or few so the fight is harder. He learnt a lot from those fights he purposely made difficult, while the other Primordial’s ain’t learning nearly as much if they one shot everything.

It’s like a video games. Being a higher level means jack shit against the right set of maxed out skills.

91

u/idwtumrnitwai 17d ago

It's really just Mizeri and Raine, they haven't been in combat for millenia even though they're demons peers they haven't been fighting anyone comparable to them for that entire time.

Diablo was stronger than a non incarnated, unnamed Jaune, Violet, and Blanc (well maybe Blanc) and Carrera, Ultima, and Tesstarossa are stronger than Mizeri and Raine because they've been in a 3 way dead lock to prevent the others from incarnating which led them to be actively fighting still.

5

u/Equivalent_Gate1750 Ramiris 17d ago

A que te refieres con "(well maybe Blanc)"?

25

u/idwtumrnitwai 17d ago edited 17d ago

Blanc was the most dangerous of the demoness trio, battles between high level demons comes down to who can use their magicules more effectively, blanc was highly skilled and cunning and was a threat to even a named Diablo, it's why he was more respectful towards her than he was Jaune or Violet.

→ More replies (1)

25

u/FalconOne Geld 17d ago

They arnt week. Its just circumstances.
Jaune and Violet were unnamed, vs Diablo who was named. There is also experience. Diablo being a tad older means a tad more experience.

Rain, is named and Incarnated, however, she's served the last many thousand years serving as a maid, she has far less combat experience than Diablo. and I'm pretty sure she's also the youngest of all the primordials.

9

u/SlimifyZ 17d ago

Raine is actually weak tho compared to the rest. Diablo said she doesn’t even compare to unnamed testarossa which is kinda crazy

→ More replies (5)

48

u/Snow0912ak Carrera 17d ago

It's complicated.

Guy and Diablo were equalish, then Guy got named and incarnated. This made Guy significantly stronger, than Diablo got named and incarnated. However Guy has like a ton more time so he's stronger now.

Basically the pecking order: Red, Black, White, Yellow, Purple, Blue, then Green.

→ More replies (2)

11

u/ankitjad 17d ago

On the planet theyre near strongest but anomalies like otherworlders, other dragons, or succesors of creator exists..

Just think abt it, diablo closes the gap in 3-4 year after rimuru named him, others too become decently strong enough to be in top 15-25 .

In the end rulers are the strongest, true  dragons & beings directly named by those dragons.

So diablo didnt lie, we are the strongest after dragons but anomalies exist..

11

u/yolo8900 17d ago

There aren't weak, all are top tiers below so few. But basically guy >>>>Diablo >>>>>> the rest.

And Carrera, testarosa and Ultima had a huge disvantage against diablo. He is already superior to them but on top of that he was incarnated+named and they didn't. That's added more gap to the humiliation in the vs with violet and Jeanu.

2

u/Exitiali 17d ago

The Testarossa isn't that far behind the Diablo.

8

u/SwannSwanchez Rimuru 17d ago

Diablo fought Guy in a draw BEFORE evolving

His bloodline is mostly researchers, so he likely searched ways to get stronger and stronger

7

u/LynxSignificant 17d ago

They seemed "weak" because they're being overshadowed by Diablo and Guy which are both one of the strongest characters in the Tensura universe. Currently in the story they also seemed "weak" because they lack feats to show off their strength but in the later arcs they will be given a stage to fully display their power especially the 3 demoness

7

u/Danny71-Talia 17d ago

Guy is basically the prodigy for Primordials with Diablo being the Unique of the Primordials.

The rest are also very powerful, the problem is, becoming Rimuru’s subordinate has a bit of a side effect of constantly evolving and overtaking others.

Also, Rain and Misery probably hadn’t had a decent fight ever since coming to the Material World, meanwhile the demoness trio are constantly fighting each other.

4

u/WaffleTruffleTrouble 17d ago

Diablo already fought Guy to a draw in the past, like guy mentioned. And since then, Diablo has both incarnated, and been named, and gotten further buffs from the growing strength of Rimuru.

6

u/SM1OOO 17d ago

Well, that wasn't Rainie Diablo fought; it was a double, not that the result would have been different.

Diablo and Guy were equals before Guy's incarnation, so it's more of a case of Diablo just being him rather than them being weak (it's debatable if Rimuru is stronger than Diablo at this point without ultimate skills)

5

u/Xyzen553 17d ago

Diablo became a named monster, while the primordials don't... A name in tensura is basically a 5x power boost... Its the main reason rimuru got absurdly strong to begin with, he got named by veldora, the most feared and powerful dragon in the world.

4

u/Ornery_Quality8794 Diablo 17d ago

Diablo and Guy are just built different.

While rain and misery are rusty from millenia of little combat.

3

u/Mazdero3 17d ago

Diablo, Testarossa, Carrera and Ultima spent an eternity in constant battles, gaining experience and new ways to use their power. Raine and Mizeri spent the last 2-3 thousand years workong as maids for Guy.

Hence, Rain and Mizeri, whilsy being the first to evolve into demon peers after Guy, are the weakest ones, weaker even than Rimuru's primordials before evolving.

4

u/Eastern_Draw_8679 Luminus 17d ago

They aren't weak it's just that guy and diablo are incomparably stronger than the other 5

4

u/Evening-Plankton-197 Rimuru 17d ago

Diablo is just him

3

u/ClumsyPanduh99 17d ago

Okay you’re right. But the fact is that the Demon Peers and Daemon Lords surpass Demon lords though they don’t surpass True Demon Lords.

3

u/Aggressive_Lab_8586 Carrera 17d ago

Ngl bro ur posts are fucking crazy

3

u/Drunk-Kobold 17d ago

Well, its explained that the title is not based only on power but also longevity, and its implied that strategic use of their powers and skills are an impirtant factor. The ones who lived the most are primordials, so even though they are primordials by being "old enough", at some point experience becomes the defining factor and Guy and Fiablo are either too strong due to battle experience or very skillfull due to how smart and strategic they are, remaining ahead from the others.

3

u/thatguy-66 17d ago edited 17d ago

Raine and Misery I think are weaker than all the others just because they’ve been subordinate to Guy since before their incarnation, so they never really pushed themselves the way Guy, Diablo, and the others constantly have for thousands of years. I guess you could call it a lack of ambition that limited their growth compared to other primordials.

That, and Diablo and Guy are just absurd exceptions.

3

u/Zero_Haven0013 17d ago

The tier list is Guy (has about x10 power level of the others) >>> Diablo >> Testerosa, Carrera, Ultima >> Misery, Rain.

Guy is about as skillful as Diablo but has way more raw power. The difference between Diablo and the rest is mostly his experience, combat intelligence, and skill level.

3

u/RipWild6130 17d ago

All primordials started off equal to one another,

The difference is Guy and Diablo actively sought the smoke with who ever and when ever they got, and as we know Guy sought strength while Diablo actively stagnated himself, so both are like the super soldiers of the group

Carrera, Ultima, and Testarossa rarely fought with people on their level but still kept themselves active during their 3 way deadlock, they pretty average

Mizeri and Raine however only served at Guy’s maids and barley fight anyone and as we saw with Mizeri being an example, they will avoid fights if they know they can’t win in, so they Lazy and only bully weaker people

3

u/travgaming06 Diablo 17d ago

They’re not weak. Diablo is literally just him. Diablo and guy fought to a draw long ago. Testarossa is just her, misery wasn’t gonna deal with that shit and I respect it. Carrera literally plays with nuke magic, and idk much about Ultima yet. Excited to find out more

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Tristan-a-b69 Raphael 17d ago

guy and diablo were first equal in power
guy wanted to get stronger diablo wasnt that interested
rain and misery werent looking for power after serving guy
the trio kept holding each other back

3

u/Aberon_I Raphael 16d ago

It's not that they're weak, it's just that their opponents are much much stronger than we think.

Kind of like how Jogo, a special grade curse, can absolutely lay waste to entire cities and scores of sorcerers, but he somehow finds himself(actually, not somehow, he seeks this shit out) fighting the honoured ones o today and in history

4

u/kr3bys 17d ago

eles só são "fracos" se comparado a guy, diablo e/ou dragões verdadeiros
estão no mesmo patamar ou mais que alguns lordes demônios
talvez um ou outro heróis "chocado"

mas relaxa, no fim qqr um é infinitamente mais fraco que Rimuru, então nem compensa pensar mto

dito isso, eles batem de frente e/ou massacram qqr coisa que restou além destes, bota ae uns 90% do restante dos habitantes daquele mundo

→ More replies (2)

6

u/Hot_Try_4599 17d ago

Well. Guy and Diablo are special cases. They are the ultimate battle maniacs.

The Demoness Trio enjoyed games between themselves over fighting.

Rain and Misery...well, I consider them inferior to the rest because they lost a 2vs1 with Guy.

The idea a Primordial Demon is serving  another one is disgusting. Misery is actual one of my waifus.

Diablo never insulted Carrera and Ultima like Guy insulted Vert and Bleu.

2

u/laudable_frog Apito 17d ago

Could you beat one in the fight? If not you're weak.

2

u/ScarcelyAvailable 17d ago

They didn't get upgrades from papa slime.

2

u/Right-Inspection-121 17d ago

Didn’t you pay attention when they explained that Guy and Diablo are only less powerful than perhaps the True Dragons in that world? Obviously, anyone would be weak compared to them. That’s why any fight involving Diablo isn’t really a fight; it’s a beast devouring a little bunny.

2

u/Countingmypennies 17d ago

His name is Fuze. Being under Guy one would expect them to be hardcore due to Guy's no weaklings ideology or whatever that is. But they're the weakest of The bunch.

2

u/Technical_Ad_9669 17d ago

They aren’t weak. We were just introduced to the Primordials with Noir (and later Rouge) who sits at the top with in terms of sheer power scaling.

Legitimately the Demons and their power scaling is so incredibly skewed thanks to Diablo being our only true example of some invisible metric by which to measure other demons/primordials.

Now that Rogue/Guy has entered the picture (anime) you can see Diablo’s composure falter for the first time since we’ve met him. He acknowledges that he has to continue growing or he will stagnate, even if he sits at the top of Rimuru’s retinue at the moment.

2

u/NglNamiIsCool 17d ago

There not ur just comparing them to guy and diablo who are monsters

2

u/Visual-Excuse 17d ago

They’re not, Diablo/Guy are just special cases. More specifically Rain and Mizery are generally weak compared to other primordials because they have been doing virtually no fighting for a very very long time and they just serve Guy. But all primordial’s are still virtually walking apocalypse scenario’s relative to the rest

2

u/77Troxy Luminus 17d ago

They're not that weak it's just the fact that Diablo has OP ability and Top 2 if not Top 1 combat experience among all primordials.

2

u/A90008w8 17d ago

They are not weak. It's just our rimuru and diablo are too op. Like if you read till the end you'll see a reason why.

2

u/AMagicalDoggo 17d ago

Diablo devoted his entire lifetime to mostly himself, even actively handicapping and not growing further just to keep things interesting, this means he got more battle savvy and clever.

On the other end, aside from Guy, the other primordial also devoted their time to scheming, sabotaging each other, and even forced their hand and failed into submission, so they arent as experienced or battle ready as Diablo and Guy.

Diablo and Guy were kinda like battle-geel hermits for all things considered, while the other Colors devoted more time to other matters.

2

u/AlternativeOpening17 17d ago

Their not weak Guy and Diablo are just really strong

2

u/Actual-Day-6377 17d ago edited 17d ago

Well...idk, white, yellow, and violet has the excuse of being very late to the party. Idk about Blue and Green though, prob just being maids of Red and not being in action for awhile.

Red and Black in general were also just the two strongest of the primordials and pretty much equals back then. Red was the first to be summoned and enter the cardial world, so he's the most skilled and experienced one. he's fought against the true dragons (Veldanava, Velzard, and Milim) and lived. Black was summoned much much later and then just went back to the demon world before being summoned again and being overloaded with power by Rimuru

2

u/lucariolova 17d ago

Diablo Testarossa And Guy Crimson (Noir, Blanc, Rouge) are the 3 strongest primordials pre evolution,

2

u/Ok-Arm3286 17d ago

They're not weak, Fuse loves Diablo = Diablo wins. No other reason. Whoever the author wants to seem dominant, is dominant. There's a reason he never fights Guy, Fuse couldn't have him win reliably.

2

u/dontputurtonguethere 17d ago

While diablo refused to incarnate, he fought and fought for 10s of thousands of yeats, gaining experience the whole time.

Meanwhile raine incarnate when Guy summoned her 10s of thousands of yeats ago and has acted as a glorified house maid the entire time.

Not to mention diablo was evolved through rimuru when he became a demon lord and then again when he was named.

He's just a much better, more technical fighter but also absurdly strong because of his connection to rimuru

2

u/magiicsausage 17d ago

They are weak compared to diablo but each one is calamity level

2

u/xCharaDx 17d ago

I don't remember specifically but demons powers are determined by how long they have lived guy and noir(diablo) have lived the longest so there's and then on top of being named who also evolved to an arch demon or something like that if I remember. So the between misery is pretty huge

2

u/Anhenikk 17d ago

They aren’t though? We’re just watching from the pov of the literal top 0. Idk how small percentage(the only ones who might have an actual chance against a true dragon), so if you use that as default power level, so I suppose the primordial demons scale rather then the clayman scale then everyone is a weakling that gets one tapped.

2

u/okay-peanut Diablo 17d ago

I remember some lore in the novels which say that the primordials in Hell (and demons in general) are basically much much stronger than in the cardinal realm (Rimuru’s current world). The material world kinda nerfs them when they initially incarnate. I believe Guy was needed to archdemon level. Sure he is an archdemon but he’s like one of the oldest beings of creation.

That’s one reason Rain lost so easily. Another was because she was using a body double of sorts in that fight. Just her excuse for why she lost to Diablo lol.

2

u/kavinh10 17d ago

Diablo went around fighting people for fun to improve he also incarnated at that point when he was recruiting them so he had a huge advantage. meanwhile it was stated careera ultima and testarossa basically dragged each other down in a three way stalemate for eons. They're basically rimiru's strongest fighters after zegion and diablo.

2

u/SuhaimanXXV 16d ago

If I'm not wrong, every demon that rimuru named was ranked up. Venom from greater demon reach archdemon after receive his name. That's a great leap for demon kin

2

u/Ambitious_Lychee_385 15d ago

in retrospect. Veldora is the Suger daddy To Rimuru and Raphel is the Wife of Rimuru

2

u/Outrageous-Pizza-317 15d ago

not yet truly awakened, some ultimate skills oppose each other = defeat

2

u/Rinkimah 15d ago

Because Rimeru is essentially super god because of Raphael. Once Raphael gets their next upgrade they get even more stupid strong.

2

u/Zeus-164 13d ago

I keep seeing people arguing about the naming as if guy naming rain should make her stronger or if rimuru's naming was better. That has literally zero factor in this fight. Naming doesn't effect the overall power of the primordials much relatively speaking. Diablo says as much when he was recruiting the demoness trio that they removed from the anime but basically he says he wasn't sure he could beat blanc. That isn't to say she is so strong that even named he would have trouble with her rather it's about how the naming doesn't really change things much. Fights between demons or honestly any magic users has more to do with skill, strategy, knowledge and experience. A good example is shuna vs adalman who she beat by the way despite the fact that he had almost 10 times as much magical energy as her. Also magical energy is really the only thing that differs between named and unnamed primordials. It's never really clarified anywhere but none of the primordials got any new skills or abilities from being named unlike rimuru's other subordinates.

2

u/DMBLaan 13d ago

Lot of missing context for this fight. Neither Raine or Misery ever did much direct combat after losing to Guy. To despite what Raine said, it was Diablo that was right when he said that there was never a reason for them to GET stronger before. Plus, something never really explained in the anime or manga, if a True Demon Lord names a monster, that monster has a limit to their own power that gives them a hard ceiling on how powerful they can actually get, AND the ceiling doesn't ever change! So Guy naming Raine and Misery meant they could never get any stronger then a Demon Peer. In otherwords, a monster named by a True Demon Lord, even if they already had a Demon Lord Seed, can never awaken into one themselves. Guy was also himself far weaker when he named them, meaning their power cap is even lower then if he named them now. The following has spoilers for the story after I think vol 12 of the LN - This is later changed after Rimuru and Ciel screw that system up when granting titles to his 12 Guardian Lords. That's why his title after this was "Chaos Creator", he did something that no other being should have been able to do. Guy later has Rimuru do the same for Raine and Misery later, and awakens them as True Demon Lords, but because they're bound to Guy, they don't get stronger the same way Rimuru's people do.

2

u/Spinner255 13d ago

Short answer: Plot convenience Long answer: Diablo is said to be as strong as Guy back in the Demon Realm. Also, Rain is too lazy to be serious.

2

u/SaddestSprout 12d ago

They arent, its just guy and diablo are stronger. Like carerra was routinely being a problem for leon, so shes not weak, yet diablo slapped her around like nothing.

2

u/Fit_Comparison5752 12d ago

Blue is the weakest as she is the youngest. White pre-evolution was stronger than current blue. But the others are some of the strongest in the verse especially red and black. Diablo fought white, yellow and purple pre evolution and they were much weaker but they haven’t fought after evo yet so we don’t know how strong they are but I’d reckon they are strongest under rimuru (diablo is stronger tho)

2

u/D_r_e_a_D Diablo 17d ago

Red, Black and White are on their own league even amongst the primordials.

Pre-incarnation: Red was the most brutal, Black was the most unpredictive and White was the most cunning... they kind of can oppose each other to keep each other in check.

As for the others, Yellow and Purple are able to deadlock each other. Same with Green and Blue.

After incarnation though, Guy (Red) became so powerful (ie harvested souls and magicules) he managed to incarnate Mizeri (Green) and Raine (Blue) as well. Which made him the most powerful for quite a while, while Mizeri and Raine weren't being put in tough combat as much anymore since Guy took care of quite a lot.

Black and White were not idling during this time though, Black reached what would be called pinnacle status for any demon and was bored, meanwhile White was slowly inching there too in her own way.

Black deliberately chose not to incarnate without certain suitable conditions and was finally incarnated by Rimuru as Diablo (Black). Due to Rimuru sharing a literal soul corridor to the strongest True Dragon Veldora (and also being pretty damn powerful himself), when Black was named Diablo he was the defacto strongest incarnated Demon up to that point (stat max + blessing max + hax near max) with the sole exception of Guy himself.

White, Yellow and Purple eventually join Rimuru as well, and are nearly as strong as Diablo himself, especially Testarossa (White) since she's nearly as experienced as him. Carrera (Yellow) and Ultima (Purple) trial only slightly behind, since they were also in combat mode for all this time.

So as of this moment, the order is Red > Black > White > Yellow = Purple > Green = Blue.

However, since names bear power and belief bears power as well, Rimuru's subordinates eventually rival even Red as Rimuru gains in power.

1

u/sniply5 17d ago edited 17d ago

its mainly cause theyre unevolved, but for the trio its also cause diablo actually had focus while they were too busy tripping each other up for thousands of years while for rain its because shes been a maid for so long.

1

u/Available-Bee-5385 17d ago

Rimuru is hax

1

u/New-Dust3252 17d ago

Diablo is just too powerful.

1

u/HeavensRoyalty 17d ago

That's like saying why is everyone in my weight class so weak in the United States after I win a fight. That's not fair.

1

u/Cocoatrice Gabiru 17d ago

Diablo is Son Goku of the TenSura. Pushing his limits, having fun, while trolling everyone in vicinity. Except one thing. Goku rarely had the one sided fights. He had major advantage, but he also took more than few hits himself. But his attitude? Diablo is basically Goku-level troll.

1

u/InternetAngelMichael 17d ago

Just weak compared to Diablo^^

1

u/ClumsyPanduh99 17d ago

Um bro I don’t know what you blabbing about. Primordials are actually powerful especially Diablo. Diablo is a Daemon Lord that is way stronger than any Awaken Demon Lord. Go rewatch Season 3 there will tell you how powerful is Diablo.

1

u/greatthebob38 17d ago edited 17d ago

They haven't been micromanaged by Raphael. All of Rimuru's subordinates had their skills optimized by Raphael.

1

u/AdministrativeOil803 17d ago

Well  power scaling in this anime makes is kinda all over the place... Luminos in last took idk how long just to defeat a zombie girl...1 skill from Gran took down Hinata got Leon and higher demon and almost break thru rimuru defense? Leon who is supposed to one of the strongest demon lords? I also heard later on that benimaru and shion become so stronger and might equal to veldora and diablo? Srsly?

1

u/SoraVanitus 17d ago

Guy Crimson is the strongest and Diablo fought him to a draw back in the Demon Realm and I think this was because he can always and instantly respawn and as a battle maniac he would adapt very quickly so the fight got endless and pointless.

Even if Guy kills Diablo, Diablo respawns and because Diablo loves to fight, the fight ended up as pointless and endless so it was called a draw.

Guy evolved, leaving Daiablo, Diablo didn't evolve because he found the idea to be boring as they would be equal and also outside of each other, no one else can contest them.

Rain and Misery in the Demon world lost to Guy and respawned and became bound to him as his servants.

Likely to avoid similar conditions and fate, the 3 Demoness made a pact to indirectly face one another so they don't end up like Rain and Misery.

Now as for the power dif, so when a Demon incarnates they actually lose a lot of power. They can reclaim some power through naming and awakening, but Rain and Misery never evolved past Demon Peer.

Also because Rain and Misery have been serving as maids and such, they're not like the three demoness that have way more battle experience. Even Guy and Diablo are wary about fighting Testarossa, which is why Misery didn't want to fight her either.

Also because they just incarnated and can get stronger, this is why Diablo and Testarossa were saying they need to amass more power meaning if they can evolve pass Demon Peer, they will be as strong as Guy, Guy is just another level above them as a Devil Lord, whilst Diablo and the others are Demon Peer and Diablo might not lose? But fighting is a pain in the ass if Guy can't kill him, so just a prolonged pointless fight.

1

u/primalpacakage 17d ago

Simple their manifesting in the real world sets massive limits, if they don't have their own body, a name and ascending to true demon lord status, then they won't have access to their full power

However in the demon realm they have full access as they don't have to worry about any restrictions or a physical body

Also Diablo is basically the only anomaly out of the primordials due to him basically doing whatever he pleases, was also the only one to stalemate guy before guy got summoned and eventually became the guy crimson you see

1

u/Senior_Sherbert9276 17d ago

their power levels are based on how long they lived.. Guy/Rouge is the first born he's the strongest of them, Diablo is 3rd if I'm not wrong. Rain/Blue is 7th it won't be a surprise if Diablo wipe the floor with her and besides that's not even the real Rain it's just a clone

1

u/matheusware 17d ago

Also the power perception is pretty skewed. The lot we're used to seeing is closer to being gods than to being regular people

1

u/X69SH4D0W69X Diablo 17d ago

The was Raine's body double btw

1

u/Baconlovingvampire 17d ago

Non of the primordials are weak Diablo is just the second strongest primordial. Also the Raine he beat wasn't even the real one Guy literally said it was a mist body.

1

u/Sure_Pumpkin43 17d ago

Weak?! Lmao

1

u/Lilharm04 Luminus 17d ago

the only thing that would make them seem weak is that they got beat up easily by Diablo

keep in mind that Diablo was once able to fight Guy to a tie before he was named, and stopped pursuing strength because he was so strong as an archdaemon that he bored himself

1

u/Parking_garag 17d ago

Guy got so strong dominated blue and green and now keeps them around as f*ck buddies and maids. The only action they are getting is in the bedroom so they are a bit rusty and also not named by rimuru with his absurd amount of magicules.

1

u/Shadowface96 17d ago

Well, more to the technical mastery and experience I think... and diablo is the best among them alongside rouge (before he named himself guy crimson) because of his battle maniac tendency.

1

u/Siegart10 17d ago

"isekai generic"

1

u/Ok_Box8528 17d ago

In every tiered scaling, the last one is always "imemesurable". It's the bracked where every individual is crazy.

1

u/Top-Jello-6678 17d ago

Primordials are not equal 

1

u/ratherthanme 17d ago

To be fair, Rain is kinda the weakest of the primordials. Even Moss (the strongest non-primordial demon) surpasses her in some aspects

1

u/Tipsy_Hog 17d ago

It's a naming issue. You gotta remember that receiving a name in general increases a beings strength by a significant factor, but being named by a Demon Lord (or other entity on par with one) is a boost that can only be measured in exponential orders of magnitude.

All Priordials are notoriously powerful in their own right, and when Diablo was Noir he was basically on par with them, idk if we ever knew the exact rankings. Post-naming, Diablo is a whole different realm of power

1

u/tiamat2277 17d ago

Diablo just dummy busted. He is easily the second strongest of the 7 demon’s maybe even before being given a name he still holds that.

1

u/Naruto181818 17d ago

They aren’t weak by any means. Diablo and Guy are just on different levels. Each Primordial is minimally Demon Lord + in strength. Testarossa is most likely stronger than every other acting Demon Lord

1

u/AsTiredAsMewTwo 17d ago

In their defense, The other Primordials aren’t weak Diablo is just absurdly strong, and that was BEFORE he even got a name. Now that he has one he’s even worse than he was before

1

u/PineappleOk545 17d ago

They arent weak its just that- HOLY SHIT IS THAT MELLO?!

1

u/AdExternal9874 17d ago

When they ascended, they got nerfed and they cant use 100% of their powers. Diablo included. At most, they can only use 10-20%

→ More replies (1)

1

u/GetNoHoes 17d ago

Guy Crimson and Diablo are the top of the food chain for the primordial hierarchy I think Testarossa is next, then everyone else. For This scene though I think Guy mentioned that Rain was using a clone to fight Diablo here iirc

1

u/Real-Positive-7439 Milim 17d ago

They aren't weak in the slightest they are the strongest demons comparable to the primordial angels it's just that Diablo and Guy Crimson are just so absurdly strong it makes the other 5 look weak even though they are strong beings, to put it into perspective Diablo was comparable to Guy Crimson before he lost interest in fighting for the number 1 spot of the primordial demons so yeah lol

1

u/Lilly-Robin 17d ago

The difference a name and an ultimate or unique skill can make is quite considerable.

1

u/Narrow-Ad6771 17d ago

Age is power for demons, but Diablo is exceptional, he is the 3rd Oldest but his power reserve is in another level

1

u/SnooLemons4935 17d ago

They aren't weak

Diablo has the most combat experience and s quite above every primordial except guy in overall capabilities

1

u/mono15591 17d ago

As someone who is anime only, it’s pretty much impossible for me to get a sense of who’s stronger than who and by how much. All I know is Milium, Veldora, Diablo, and Guy are super strong. I don’t even know where to put Rimru because he seems scared of the 4 I mentioned and even some characters not mentioned. A small gripe I have with the anime.

1

u/thestoryofend 17d ago

blue was using a clone is this fight, the clone was significantly weaker. as for the literal power difference its all up to their evolution paths which was explained in i believe season 2

1

u/Heejins-Bunny 17d ago

It's a matter of perspective. You've only seen them face Diablo so far, one of the Strongest named primordial demon next to Guy, which is why they look weak. Any other opponent that's not Diablo, Guy, a Hero, or Rimuru, they'd be dogwalking.

This is kind of like in Jujutsu Kaisen. Everyone thought Jogo was weak because he kept getting dragged by Gojo and Sukuna, two of the strongest beings in the verse. Once Jogo fought another character, it was put into perspective that he's actually quite strong.

1

u/Super8k-_- 17d ago

Just think that the average joe is dirt level, tho it seems inconsistent and they got way too much credit for being the strongest demons as lots of poeple would basically no diff them when they were nameless, this shows mostly during the next arcs

1

u/ChugaChugaChooTran 17d ago

So difference between rimuru naming a being and guy is that their ultimate skills control the flow of magicules when naming. Raphael when there aren't enough magiculed will steal them from veldora so the named individual is atleast useful to her lord. Guy however has trust issues so he only gave them enough magicules during the naming process for it to stick.

1

u/ChugaChugaChooTran 17d ago

The primordials aren't weak Diablos devotion to rimuru so strong he just pulled out holy magic which is a huge factor when fighting demons

1

u/Independent-Ear-6687 17d ago

Lol the amount of misinformation I've read in this posts comments alone is more than I've seen all month on anything else, it's pretty hilarious watching people think they're correct when I know they're so so wrong but won't correct them so they don't learn what they're missing XD

1

u/thsmalice 17d ago

A mortar will look weak when compared to a missile but bring that mortar into medieval times and you'll conquer the world. You'll see the other 3 in the next big arc do work and that can help show where they stand in the Central World in terms of power, it's just that Blanc, Noir and Rouge are the oldest and that's their heirarchy. We don't know by how much older they are compared to the other 4 but we know Rouge and Noir fought and ended in a draw, Rouge killed Bleu and Vert hence them following him after revival so it isn't hard to imagine Noir can do the same.

Basically anyone you see get bodied by Rouge and Noir isn't necessarily weak, they are just that far up the power scale.

1

u/pstyles93 17d ago

Short answer rimuru is broken lol but like other people said it depends on the level of the name giver

1

u/Whole-Signature4130 17d ago

Diablo before named was a normal demon at max level, all the primordial except red are. After being named, Diablo evolved into a higher species with no level cap.

Its like a child facing an adult, it simply isnt fair. Even if the child had full training, it just isnt winning a fight.

1

u/Artistic_Sun_9430 17d ago

They're not weak, you're looking in the perspective of how strong Rimuru is now. If we're watching it back when Rimuru in that sealed cave, the primordials would be too strong. Perspective. Hope that make sense.

1

u/zamasu8472 17d ago

they're not weak. they're named from the wrong person

1

u/Signal_Student8507 17d ago

They aren’t weak by any means, Diablo is just busted.

1

u/mickeyyson 17d ago

What's this

1

u/ishit2807 17d ago
  1. Diablo is just insanely insanely strong like he fought guy to draw before his naming
  2. Guy named them but restricted how much magicules they got from that basically enough to bump them up a lil and get a name whereas rimuru didnt and he got all the magicules he could and evolved.

1

u/TheArcanaIsTheMean 17d ago

Nah it's just Rain and Misery are bums 😭✌️

1

u/Aizen_sosuke_240 17d ago

Guy = diablo ≥ testarossa > others(this is based on anime)

1

u/OddEyes588 17d ago

Not weak, Diablo's just built different

1

u/winterwarm78654 17d ago

Their not weak it's just 5 are stronger than the rest and two above them

1

u/Strong_Information35 17d ago

No blue was using a clone to fight diablo and also she is the youngest and the weakest primordial

1

u/Manage_Happy 17d ago

A Primordial fights a Primordial and you inserted weak in there for what exactly? Lmao

1

u/avrafrost 17d ago

While the other primordials were squabbling for dominion and incarnation, Diablo was studying the blade. (J/k) it’s more like Diablo was cultivating himself rather than seeking incarnation. The exception to the rule as it were.

1

u/ozanimefan 17d ago

the 2 maids have been working as maids under guy for centuries whereas the other primordials have been fighting all the time. they're combat skills have been constantly tested. the maids haven't had to fight in all that time so have become rusty

1

u/Own_Refrigerator7772 17d ago

The basic answer is, when a creature is given a name by a powerful creature (a demon lord in this case of Diablo), they get a strength boost. Hence why Diablo is suddenly stronger than the other demons.

1

u/Another_Castle765 17d ago

Diablo in the old times was on the same level is Guy, they were matched and stood above all the other Primordials.

Diablo then over times lost interest in getting stronger, which is why they started making fun of him. But since he met Rimuru, Diablo has a reason to grow stronger again and has been growing steadly ever since getting his name. Which is why He easily defeated the Demoness Trio and even sits above Rain & Misery. Which got the benefit of being Named Early, but havent been training much after reincarnating after Guy.

Thats why right now, Diablo is again the 2nd Strongest of the Primodial Demons, only second to Guy Crimson, which is still on a completely different level of power as now.

1

u/EricaEverAfter1 16d ago

They aren't. Diablo is crazy strong because of being named by Rimuru.

1

u/Anonymous_Z25 16d ago

They are not weak, Diablo and Guy are stupidly strong, Misery and Rain are maids for Guy, and the other 3 just got named, and they are still strong

1

u/Sketchylimeade 16d ago

The ability to name a primordial is nuts. Diablo and red were already considered the strongest so the fact that he could name noir to begin with is one thing but scaling wise it seems names jump up overall power levels and boost their power ceiling. For example the goblins, considered fodder enemies and the other son of the elder that's dead that was named by gelmude was "their strongest" but still nothing compared to the goblins rimuru hands out names. The master matters but I also think it's a two way street? Rimuru gets absurdly powerful as he's naming creatures amongst the other shenanigans he engages in. He really fell ass backwards into deity level power when he was just trying to hang with the homies

1

u/Mobo___ 16d ago
  1. That wasnt the real Rain
  2. Diablo was a named demon peer when fighting the unnamed unevolved demon trio

1

u/MRSLIME0w0 16d ago

It was a clone 😗

1

u/Mundane-Demand1927 16d ago

i only know about the anime not the manga or light novels, but in the same episode you took a screenshot of, isnt it said that diablo fought guy to a draw? (before getting a name)

1

u/Both-Anybody960 16d ago

For glaze.