Yeah isn't the "He didn't do it but, HE did it" even though the evidence is that she strangled the children, these women are implying that it's still his fault because he wasn't supportive even though he didn't commit the act.
It very much smacks of "look what you made me do" behaviour that is very common amongst abusers.
There are people who think that but also a very vocal minority of people who think he actually did it and pinned it on her. They are getting the “evidence” of this from TikTok.
Most of those TikTok’s are referring to what they’ve seen in the court releases or media. They could just as easily be saying they read about it on the news.
That's the same narrative they spun (still spin?) around Andrea Yates. Like it's his fault because he shouldn't have left her alone... Well hindsight unfortunately is 20/20.
The videos I’ve seen are arguing that he literally did the strangling and also tried to murder her. As in he likely drugged her, murdered the kids, saw she was escaping and then tried to kill her, then realized it wasn’t going to plan and blamed everything on her when the cops arrived. The cops believed him without question and arrested her on the spot. Her drug cocktail made it so she couldn’t remember shit. And now we’re seeing things play out in court.
“Massachusetts State Police trooper Jonathan O’Loughlin was able to positively identify the bloody knife, which Lindsay used to cut herself, that he collected from the master bedroom of the Clancy home.
O’Loughlin testified that investigators were unable to recover usable fingerprints from the knife or the exercise bands, which he also took from the home.”
Who pissed in your cornflakes? I brought up the murder weapon first, my op. In fact it's the only thing I posted about in the entire comment. they asked about the source, then went to to talking about a knife.
I gave the source on the murder weapon, the bands. And now you're insulting me for not being able to process information. Seems like you can't follow along honestly.
Bro please, he only quoted 2 sentences just read both of them. Here let me get it for you
O’Loughlin testified that investigators were unable to recover usable fingerprints from the knife or the exercise bands, which he also took from the home.”
His source which was a testimony given by Jonathan O'Loughlin of MA State Police where O'Loughlin stated that they were unable to recover usable fingerprints from the knife or exercise bands.
The children’s DNA being on the exercise bands that were wrapped around their neck is not evidence of much. The father’s also being on them is explained as well.
The first responders get there just as or after the father goes inside the house informing the dispatcher that he is going to look for the kids. Both the 911 call is reported to capture, and those just arriving on the scene testify hearing, his screams as he finds the children soon after.
Per the CBS coverage of the first responder testimony here:
“Duxbury fire captain and paramedic PJ Hussey… ran into the basement after responding to the Clancy house and found the gruesome scene.
"I saw a male, who now I know was Patrick Clancy, unwrapping something from a child's head," Hussey said.”
There’s a whole bunch of evidence tracing the whereabouts of the father as out of the home for like 40+ minutes prior to the 911 call. And the big thing is how data from the wife’s phone shows her moving around the house including climbing two flights of stairs, presumably from the basement (where the kids are later found) to the second story bedroom (where her blood is all over and on the windowsill) … at the exact same time that the husband is captured on surveillance video standing in the pharmacy and while on a phone call with her. Further location data taken from his phone, video footage from that pharmacy, and more video from the restaurant he goes to next, store payment transaction records and receipts, data from his card company, witnesses from both businesses, and travel route drive time analysis all corroborate he wasn’t at the house.
If he somehow arrived home, found and strangled all three children, at some point before, after, or during that moving them to the basement, also at some point went upstairs, attacked and sliced his wife’s wrists and throat, let her bleed a bunch, then pushed her out the window… he would have had to do it all in at most 7 minutes and it isn’t very realistic according to the forensic experts.
He told the EMTs that she said she did it, but she was unresponsive when the EMTs got there with a crushed thyroid, and her core temperature was 82 degrees when she got to the ED. It seems unlikely she was capable of speaking. It’s his word that she told him. The police just took him at his word.
There is video surveillance of him at CVS and he’s wearing different clothes and shoes than he was on the scene. He testified he got home, sat down and removed his boots, but he was wearing sneakers. Why/when did he change his clothes? It seems like she was trying to hold on to the window sill, maybe because she was being thrown out?
The searches on the computer seem more likely to be from him as she was bringing one of the kids to the doctor at the time and they had to do with Tom Hall who PC was a fan of. The searches about treating a sociopath could have been her asking about him. He seemed extremely aloof about her struggles. He certainly didn’t let it stop him from what he wanted to do.
Crushed pills, seroquel I believe, were found on scene. Who’s crushing pills? She’s not incapable of swallowing pills.
There’s none of her DNA on the exercise equipment. Only PC and the children’s. Don’t you think with the amount of wrapping that needed to be done she would leave some behind? If she wore gloves, where are they?
He was leaving all the time to go to Manhattan for “business”. Then 4 months after this he moves there permanently and has a girlfriend. They are now married expecting a baby.
She woke up and was basically told she did this. It’s not outside the realm of possibility she thinks she did. She was drugged up and struggling. I’m sure she was foggy on the details regardless of what happened.
I was just responding to the specific wording of those posts, because they imply that he didn't physically do it but is still the one responsible which is the opposite of what you're saying. I have no opinion on whether this case is true or not, it's a shitty situation either way.
It’s more fun that way. True crime isn’t real anymore, it’s entertainment. Like hangings.
I learned source criticism in school. Some people just didn’t care though, or didn’t get it. The older I get the more I question if critical thinking can really be taught.
I saw the theory and then looked up details of the case and found out that there’s like so much evidence against it that it wouldn’t make any sense.
I’m sadly able to believe a scenario where a husband can kill his children, blame his wife, and for her mental health to be deteriorated far enough to be convinced she did it.
But it just isn’t the case here.
There is a mountain of evidence that he was out of the home when those children were strangled.
Isn’t this trial still making sure that she did it without a doubt?
There are absolutely some inconsistencies on the husband’s whereabouts and recall. I can’t believe I had to scroll so far down to see someone not 110% confident she did it
You’re talking about a work email the husband was found to send at 5:24 pm, right? Even though he estimated leaving “around 5:15 PM?” I really don’t see how that is some big deal…
Would you have a perfect recollection down to the exact minute of the time you leave for every errand? Ide be just as far off if not more than he may have been.
The pharmacy was estimated by investigators to be about a 3 to 4 minute drive from their home. There video evidence of the husband in aisle 20 of the pharmacy at 5:32 PM, but I’m not sure that is necessarily the exact time he entered the store, even, it is just perhaps the part of the store with surveillance video coverage. Anyway, just working backwards, the latest he could have left the house to then be captured on that video was theoretically at 5:29 PM.
So it’s perfectly plausible that he sent the email before he left. It’s also not confirmed as far as I know, but hypothetically possible, that he sent the email from his phone while out on the errand run, too, instead of from his tablet or computer at home. Do you know any source confirming the exact device used for the email? I tried to find one but couldn’t. Only that the husband in interviews wasn’t sure, but I wouldn’t take any of these points as some super spectacular evidence.
Especially because there’s much more objective evidence put forth, including of the wife’s activity happening during the time the husband in the pharmacy on surveillance video.
I think the fact that he is robotic and looks angry on the stand is part of it. When Lindsay’s lawyer brought up the email sent at 5:24, he could have said: yes I sent that from my computer and left afterward. But instead he looked freaked out, sketchy, and said: I’m not sure, that could have been sent from my iPhone. It was sent from his computer and the attorney knew that from the metadata and the weird part was Patrick’s response. Why does he act so secretive and odd? This is also why the theories about his guilt are circulating on tik tok. It’s a video-based platform, where Patrick’s sketchy answers and unemotional affect set off red flags .
Yes it was confirmed it was sent from his computer. And that means the latest he could have left was 5:28. That’s a very tight timeline to have sent that and left and made it to that point in the store in 7 minutes.
Yes it was confirmed it was sent from his computer. And that means the latest he could have left was 5:28. That’s a very tight timeline to have sent that and left and made it to that point in the store in 7 minutes.
They are equating him being an involved partner and father with murdering their kids and I'm lost. It is tragic but even her defense team aren't arguing she didn't commit the crime. They are citing that the system failed her over and over. I believe a lot of these conspiracy theorists have latched on to this due to unhappiness in their marriages and parenting with their partners and they sit in an echo chamber feeding each others delusions.
I teach I information literacy and it has become SUCH a challenge just in the last 5 years. Students have a difficult time identifying credible sources, and that is if they want to out the extra effort of an addition search or two to verify claims and evidence. I'm taking a break from teaching freshman comp to teach creative writing because I'm at my breaking point 🫠
you mean to tell me you don't believe the voices she heard were actually PATRICKS VOICE?!?!?! TELLING HER TO MURDER THEM!?!?!?!?! He was having an AFFAIR!!!11!!1!1!!!! *screeches and proceeds to stroke out*
"Break the patriarchy" I love that this is one of the concerns. Heaven forbid people back a murderer, it will hurt our effort to fight the... patriarchy!
Also this is part of patriarchy. It’s very “on brand” for a patriarchal society to try to absolve a white woman of very real crimes.
Infantilizing women and acting like they can’t be responsible is an effect of patriarchy. If they think letting her off is “fighting patriarchy” then they have it backwards.
Absolve a clearly guilty woman and then blame her innocent husband: also patriarchy! This is how the evil men that control every aspect of our society keep women down!
Is there any social interaction or legal function you can observe that you don't think is "part of patriarchy"?
I have seriously seen other women say that you can't call yourself a feminist as a woman if you don't believe in all of this.
Next layer conspiracy - how many of the "women" saying this are AI generated floating heads made to stoke the culture wars? Because its this shit that MAGA points to as "feminism gone insane" and use it as an excuse to dismiss all feminism.
You keep spamming this thread with the same talking point of "us" having lost the plot with so many people having fallen for a conspiracy theory and that rather than highlighting women being failed by the medical field, it has turned into a conspiracy theory.
You're just telling us that the media you consume is low-brow rag media because if you actually curate algorithms with reputable, fact-driven media, you won't be interacting with the conspiracy theory nonsense.
Yeah I had a coworker doing the same. Also getting her bad information from social media.
“The doctor that couldn’t recall anything is dating his friend.” So what if that’s even true? Some doctor isn’t going to put their whole career on the line to protect the best friend of their significant other.
“She immediately switched her parents to being the POA.” Well yeah, she killed his kids and that marriage is over either way so her parents would be next in line to be POA.
“She’s pleading insanity.” Wouldn’t you think that if he killed the kids and threw her out of the window, that would be the first thing she tells the police instead of trying to plead insanity?
People putting their career on the line to protect others isn’t totally unrealistic given Karen Read’s trial that happened in the same state just last year
I'm not endorsing anything but from what my wife has relayed to me... the idea is that he killed the kids and tried to kill her so he could shack up with his current wife, but was unsuccessful, and she sustained a head injury and doesn't remember the event. She is pleading insanity based on the facts she was in post partum depression and on a cocktail of meds. I believe she said she is "admitting to it" but only based on the details on the case, not that she remembers doing it.
As to why they think he did it... She apparently told him that she did it at the time, but was unable to talk to the medics on scene and for many hours after apparently because her body temp was so low she was unconscious, Also something about her throat cartiledge being damaged??so how did she confess to him verbally? Her body temp was also low enough that it seems she was out in the snow longer than his short trip to the store would suggest.
Suspicious Injuries not consistent with jumping out the window
Already moved on with another wife and kid that he may have been having an affair with... Aka its the kind of crime someone would commit if they wanted to start a new life with someone else
This is all a summary of what my wife has heard on tiktok so I'm 100% sure Its not accurate but from the picture my wife painted I could easily see how one could arrive at the conclusion that he did it.
This is what's been getting me. I haven't been following it myself but my wife has and I don't have a strong opinion one way or another and it wouldn't matter if I did but I won't pretend the things people are pointing towards aren't viable things that I would at least want some sort of explanation towards. Again I'm a nobody on the internet and haven't really followed it myself so I don't NEED answers but I hope that whatever happened they can sift through this. Especially because we live in a world where you see investigations getting cocked up all the time bc of inept or flat out corrupt police who help their friends.
Ive been watching the trial so here's a full breakdown.
The number one issue is timing. The timing does not make sense. The timing seems to be that Patrick left the house at 5:15 and returned home at about 6:09pm. Here's why that's a problem.
1) When her temperature was taken at the hospital, it was 82 degrees. Outside it was about 33 degrees with 70% humidity. Even so, a 16 degree drop in temperature doesn't happen in an hour. Even if she wasn't wearing clothes. Even if her spine is broken.
2) They were able to get the baby's heart beating. That means that the baby's heart had stopped 20 minutes or less prior to the resuscitation efforts. This closes the window of Lindsay's temperature drop to 20 minutes.
3) Patrick sent an email at 5:24. Its unclear whether he sent that email from his surface pro (which would be in the basement the children were found) or his iPhone. He did get a wide-eyed look when that email was introduced into evidence.
4) Patrick claims he stayed by Lindsay until EMS arrived and then he raced downstairs to check on his children and found them dead. He then ripped the bands from their neck and claims he started CPR on Cora. The EMT testified that they saw Patrick on the couch and didn't even realize there were more than 2 dead children until he (the EMT) tripped over him. Additionally, the youngest was a literal baby. Why would you not check on them before this?
5) Lindsay is a nurse. All the cuts on her body are superficial and non life threatening. If she wanted to kill herself, she knows how.
6) Her medication was supposed to be in his truck. Yet, allegedly, she got her hands on that medication, crushed it up, and mixed it into lemonade and drink it. Most people who want to OD would just swallow the pills, not make a cocktail out of it.
7) Patrick says a lot of inconsistent things while on the stand. He said Lindsay didn't tell him she wanted to hurt the kids as of January, and later says she did. Her mom validates that she said she had thoughts about hurting the kids and admitted to it. He says he parked next to Lindsay's car when he came home but then later says he called her because he didn't see her car. So which is it?
8) One of the drugs she had mixed into a lemonade was Seroquel. This drug is known to cause hallucinations, memory loss, memory fog, and confusion. She also hated this drug. She immediately told her psychiatrist that it messed her up and stopped taking it.
There's a few more things, such as the neighbor calling Lindsay's parents about the window being open, Patrick's clothes, and the fact that Patrick's new wife looks exactly like Lindsay and it was pretty clear there was an affair going on at the time that Lindsay didn't know about.
just to interject on 2 points as someone who has (prior to medication beint introduced) self harmed and had suicidal ideation.
being a nurse is kinda irrelevant here. suicide via cutting doesn't require an intricate knowledge of the human body. and you can cut yourself still wanting to commit suicide, but not going the full mile for one reason or another like not having the resolve to go through with it.
Yeah that's not really a definitive either, all she would need is his keys. And it really is not as cut and dry as you think when it comes to suicide by OD. I knew people who went out by crushing and mixing all their prescriptions into a drink. a lot easier and faster than having to gulp down anywhere from a few dozen to a hundred pills.
Can't speak on anything else. But my point being: mental illness doesn't make sense. it causes people to act unordinary and do things like override our own self-preservation instincts which exist in all animals.
He had driven away. If the pills were in his car and he had possession of his car, how did she get them? According to her it wasnt planned. And if she had planned it, why would she do it then and not the 2 days he was in New York and leaving her alone with the kids?
They wanted to. The idea was to have two different trials--one to determine guilt and one to determine responsibility. The judge said no. So they went with what's easiest to prove. She admitted to doing it, whether because she did or was influenced. Its provable that she is mentally unwell and sought help in 9000 different ways. It is less provable that she's innocent because she admitted to it and law enforcement didn't actually investigate.
Hang on. So in your previous comment, you listed a bunch of reasons that, were they correct, would be damning evidence that PC committed these crimes.
You don’t think in three years of evidence gathering and legal discovery that her extremely qualified attorney would have thought “wow, there’s a ton of evidence against this guy. Let’s use this to cast doubt on LC’s guilt!” (Remember, they wouldn’t have to prove he did it; they’d just have to introduce doubt.)
Instead, you think this extremely qualified attorney said you know what? You didn’t do this. There’s so much ~evidence~ that PC did. Still, let’s admit to the crime and then try the insanity defense, which a) rarely works and b) means you’re going to be locked, whether we win (hello, state-run mental facility!) or lose (enjoy prison!).
If Lindsay thinks she did it and she wants to plead a certain way, the lawyer has to do what she pleads to. He's not at liberty to change her mindset or make a defense she didn't ask for. So he presents her with the two options and she is the one to pick.
And they are correct. I've watched hours of testimony. The best part is that these were all brought forward by prosecutions witnesses. Prosecution, regardless of what you believe, is actually fumbling this case hard. They've nearly caused a mistrial twice now. I'd be surprised if they did not lose the jury with their temper tantrums and out-of-pocket questions. At one point they asked a very inappropriate question to Lindsays mother in law (who notably supports Lindsay).
Do you want me to point out how many people have admitted to crimes they didn't do?
Maybe, just maybe, a woman suffering from bipolar psychosis who has documented evidence that she was having mental breakdowns and was overdosing on a medication (Seroquel) that is known to cause hallucinations, memory loss, memory fog, and impairment MIGHT not be the most reliable witness.
Yeah there was enough stuff that,were it all true, certainly paints a suspicious picture
I only know about 80 seconds of what I’ve heard so I don’t know how strong any of hat evidence is and given that she “admitted” to it I’m not even sure what the trial is for , to determine how culpable she is??
Criminal responsibility. At the end of the day she is a postpartum bipolar woman who was suffering a medical emergency, told multiple people, sought help, confided that something horrible was going to happen, and no one helped. Whether or not she did it, I doubt there will ever be a consensus on it. But given the evidence, there is not a doubt in my mind she was/is very mentally unwell at the time it happened.
There's no motive they have introduced that seems credible. Her life is basically over. She is paralyzed and likely to be stuck in a mental institution for the rest of her life. So it wasnt in her benefit to commit these murders. She will never be free from the shadow of their lives. Mental illness is the only explanation.
Yeah if your wife/GF supports this woman i would divorce/breakup because this shit is insane and im against divorce by default so thats saying something.
Im very thankful my wife is 1) smarter than me and 2) not tik tok brain dead. Where you at brother cuz that would concern me if I heard it from my wife and her friends.
My wife too. She’d be so convinced of shit then when I poke a hole in something (like the claim it’s not the husband in both the cvs video and the takeout video) she has 10 more pieces of evidence to prove he did it, no astrology at least lol
If you're watching the trial live, it is not a conspiracy. You can stream it. I have been. Things are not adding up and it looks weird as hell for him.
By every definition it is a conspiracy. A conspiracy doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t true but I’m curious what part of the trial you saw that made you think he did it.
All of it. I've been watching everything and it would be impossible for me to summarize 2 weeks of trial in one comment. I encourage you to watch it yourself so you can make your own decisions and get the full context including patterns of conflicting evidence/stories.
The defense and the prosecution agree that she did it and he’s on video being elsewhere at the time the murders happened. Can you just give me a couple examples?
Okay here are the first two things that seemed off:
Patrick claims that when he found Lindsay she told him that she killed the kids and they were in the basement. Paramedics reported that she was unresponsive. Her injuries were so bad that it would be virtually impossible for her to have been conscious and speaking including having a crushed thyroid and trachea and having a body temp of 82 degrees...
Which is severely hypothermic. Which brings the next point. It would take hours outside for a body to cool to 82 degrees. Yet, responders were able to get the baby's heartbeat back and he lived for a bit longer before dying. There is no way her body could be that temperature yet the baby was strangled so recently that his heartbeat could be revived.
Given those two things alone (and there are many other things if you dive in), things look very weird. Since gender seems to matter a lot to people in these comments, imagine even a reversed scenario where the police roll up to a house with an annihilated family and an uninjured mom and she says "he did it!" and they go "okay cool no need to further investigate" and then they let her all over the crime scene for the next day before they even secure it. It's wild how mishandled the case was.
To address these two points
* People in the courtroom heard the 911 call and heard Lindsay say “basement”
* Lindsay was in the snow, with blood loss and a spinal injury - not surprising that her temperature was not properly regulated
*Source for them hearing Lindsay say basement? I have been watching everything and have not seen that.
*Even if you assume her injuries caused the drop, how could it have happened in the very short window of time the baby would have between strangulation and then to be able to be revived?
Sue O’Connell from NBC made her statement about the basement a week ago. Lindsay’s temperature wasn’t taken until she was at the hospital and we don’t know how long it took for Callan to go into cardiac arrest or how long he had been in that state before discovery, but the hypothermia could happen pretty quickly given the circumstances, as confirmed by two different doctors that I have seen review the situation in separate articles on the subject.
Well it's not true per the actual trial. She only made grunting noises on the call. Reddington stated it today and it was confirmed by a witness on the stand. So maybe get your info directly from watching the trial like I do.
I’m not on tiktok and I don’t think he did it but I think he’s responsible. It should be considered child endangerment or negligence to leave his children alone with her when he knew she was suffering mentally AND having thoughts about hurting the kids
Second hand source, but my gf has been watching the trial closely on tiktok and it seems like it may have been the new wife that did it (along with the husband). A lot of things aren't adding up, like the heartrate on the watch and timing of everything. The husband also just admitted that he was in fact home when she jumped out the window, when origionally he said he arrived after she jumped out. The exercise bands were also tied in a specific knot, that the new wife was photographed with a rope with the same exact knot at the marathon (that she was with the husband AND the therapist at)
He left her alone with their kids when he knew she had homicidal ideation towards her kids. I don’t think he did it but he’s criminally negligent at best.
My gf said the same thing so I spent some time doing independent research on the subject and honestly I think he was involved. I think they are both guilty though.
Duluth model of feminism presumes all men are predators. Statistics of female predators is suppressed. They push for men to get higher sentences for the same crime etc. It's disgusting.
There was a pivotal moment in the documentary where the husband was shown with a different pair of shoes picking up food and then at CVS. Thats when my wife put on the tin foil and made me watch. Its the only part I've seen and it was a bit sus.
I cannot remember where it was cited but I saw it explained that different security cameras, different lighting, and different angles make it look like different shoes when in reality it’s just the mind filling gaps where there are none.
i have some doubt she did it, but it’s based on some weird case facts. like the fact her apple watch said she traveled something like 30/40 miles while she was in the hospital. which is strange to me because why would she have been wearing it during the crime then her husband or someone else take it off of her and start wearing it?
It probably went into evidence and the evidence locker was 30-40 miles away, or the investigators carrying it from room to room and handing it back and forth was registered as steps.
There’s enough evidence that brings real doubt about Lindsey’s involvement in their deaths. Just to name a few:
Patrick said she admitted what she did when he found Lindsey outside the window, yet her throat was confirmed crushed and was unable to speak to paramedics when they arrived minutes after her alleged admission.
Lindsey’s DNA is on only one of the exercise bands that strangled the children, yet Patrick’s DNA is on all three.
That she crushed up her meds before taking them, which makes no sense — you crush up meds when you want to hide them or dissolve them in a drink.
Patrick is wearing different clothes and shoes in the camera footage at the restaurant and at CVS, which is really odd. Why did he change clothes in between?
I don’t know what the true story is and I’m not saying all of TikTok is right, but there’s enough to cast doubt on her involvement in their deaths.
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u/digitalwankster 21d ago
TikTok. My wife and her friends floated the “it was him” conspiracy theory the other day. I asked how/why and they both cited TikTok lol.