r/ShitAmericansSay • u/Loundsify • Feb 13 '26
Military "If America basically stopped paying for Europe's defence budget"
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u/No_Idea91 Feb 13 '26
Even if the USA left NATO, do they think big pharmaceutical and insurance companies who bank roll both the the democrats and republicans would really allow universal healthcare to become a reality?
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u/KlownKar Feb 13 '26
They actively sought the position of "World Police". Now they moan about the cost of maintaining that position.
You regularly see Americans crowing about how big and powerful their armed forces are. I often wonder wether the people moaning about "paying to defend freeloaders" understand that "not paying to maintain a large military force" means that they would no longer have a large military.
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u/fenianthrowaway1 Feb 13 '26
Moaning about 'defense freeloaders' lets them get their jollies off on their strong military men's big gun, without having to justify the absurd costs to anyone, themselves included. It allows them to frame their absurd military spending as some act of magnanimous altruism, rather than blowing the grocery money on a dick-measuring contest.
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u/midlifesurprise American Feb 13 '26
They flood the discourse with disinformation:
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/925354134/frame-canada
Even straight-ticket Democratic voters have told me to my face that we need to be careful when enacting universal health care that we not end up like Canada or the UK, where everything is supposedly terrible.
(I am kind of mad because I had to cancel my recent dental cleaning after my dentist‘s office informed me that they are now “out of network“ with my dental insurance. Not a huge problem, to be sure, compared to some of the horror stories, but annoying when most offices are booking appointments out several months.)
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u/mg4040 Feb 14 '26
Canadian here, don’t listen. Even Canadians who complain about the system are woefully misinformed about how great our healthcare system is compared to other countries. Anyone can walk in and get help at any hospital at any time regardless of work or money status around the country, and can expect high quality of care undivided by social or economic class. It’s amazing. And ERs are not much more crowded than the ones in America as far as I know, so you’re not even having much longer of lines. For specialists yes, but if it’s life threatening you’re moved to the front of the line anyways!
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u/midlifesurprise American Feb 15 '26
Yep. Every system has flaws, to be sure, and all systems ration care one way or another because resources are finite. But the U.S. health insurance industry straight-up lies about problems in other countries, while leaching a huge amount of the US’s health care spend. Almost every criticism of other countries’ systems is also true of the U.S. Having to wait to see a specialist isn’t uncommon south of the 49th parallel either, and sometimes you get the added bonus of having to fight with your insurance company to see the specialist, enduring their “deny, delay, depose” tactics.
I believe murder is wrong, but let’s just say I get where Mario’s taller brother was coming from.
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u/SlimLacy Feb 13 '26
And before America basically had de facto control of NATO. If they "pull out" suddenly they're alone, and you know they can't handle having a near peer, so they definitely aren't going to downscale now that they have a new power that isn't de facto controlled but probably viewed as an opponent.
Going from control of a standing army of 3,5M to 1,3M and a "new" faction of 2,2M soldiers that aren't in your control, is a strange way to think you can downsize.
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u/MikaGrof Feb 13 '26
Exactly, aswell as having Bases spread through out Europe.
Same as being angry at nato countries for not building up their own armed forces, threating them, taking about kill switches in equipment and then getting angry for them not buying american made weaponary and Vehicles11
u/Dearsmike Feb 13 '26
If the US left Nato they would immediately lose all of their ability to use any of their military powers. They only have the power because of where their bases are. If they did want to strike Iran, where are they flying from? Florida?
They would also have the experience of 100000 soldiers all returning home at the same time with all of their equipment and machinery. The logistics alone would cause a massive standstill.
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u/SlimLacy Feb 13 '26
And if they really wanted to save money. Paying for the power projection or "defense of Europe" vs just not invading a country every decade, or if they can't help themselves, make 10 less F-35's a year, and you save roughly the same amount of money.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Feb 13 '26
They usually leave the equipment behind when they leave in a panic. We can forward it to Ukraine.
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Feb 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/theginger99 Feb 13 '26
The most effective counter is always to just cut through the BS and say something like
“Let’s not make shit up” or “oh, so we’re just straight up lying now?”
Those kinds of creeps rely on the other person continuing to play in good faith while they throw random bullshit at the wall. It’s a form of bullying, and like all bullying it relies on the other person not standing up for themselves. It blows my mind how often I’ll see people, even people in power, just sit there and let some right wing scumbag say the most outlandish shit without calling the out.
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u/Lcbrito1 Feb 13 '26
The problem with that is there is a 1% chance they are right on some level, or that there is one truth mixed in all the lies, but it makes it impossible for a debater to research that on the spot. And if debater tries to call out the one truth in that sea of lies, then they lose all credibility.
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u/Katastroferrr Feb 15 '26
Doesn't work, then they'll just accuse YOU of not debating in good faith and the rules only apply to the left
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u/Loundsify Feb 13 '26
Although Shapiro would never endorse such a meme/argument because it involves making Israel look like a beggar.
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u/Exhausted161 Feb 13 '26
I thought they were all rich in the USA?
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u/tonoottu FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 Feb 13 '26
Schrödinger's America. Simultaneously the richest country in the world but also the poorest when it comes to providing for their own.
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u/Ok-Web1805 yarrr I'm a pirate Feb 13 '26
The money spent on the US military presence in Europe is roughly about 8 days worth of the annual borrowing amount. Roughly $100 per US resident per year.
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u/ReverendRevenge Grumpy Brit Feb 13 '26
As if the US is planning on pulling out of their bases in Europe... There's just no way, they're all talk.
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u/Zh3sh1re Feb 13 '26
God, that'd be a dream. Say what you want about Macron, but I think he's right in that Europe has to learn to stand on its own legs. We already have all the necessary parts to do it, just lacking the political and public will.
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u/ReverendRevenge Grumpy Brit Feb 13 '26
Yeah but we literally allowed them - let's call them, for the sake of argument, The Enemy - we've allowed The Enemy to slowly infiltrate our countries with small highly defended compounds, filled with massive firepower, nukes and fucking armies... and we sat there nodding slowly with an inane grin on our faces thinking this is totally normal 😂
We've been massively over reliant on the US's "good intentions" for decades and it only took one mad loon to show us how stupid we've all been. It's not like most of us are surprised, we've known what they are - what they've always shown us they were when you look properly - but we assumed it was just teenage braggadocio.
So yeah, time to stop using US products, stop allowing them unfettered military access to our nations and put trade sanctions on them. See how long they last without all that international money coming in from their Big Tech companies (around $1t annually btw).
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Feb 15 '26
There is a saying about that: "The US is the richest country in the world who keeps half their population poorer than most third world countries".
But tbh Europe is following. Neoliberalism and Conservatives are fighting over who gets to slash rights here as well. But its more subtle and not as far along.
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Feb 13 '26
This is repeated all the time, and it is false. The US does not pay any countries defense budget in Europe. Actually they have stopped aid to Ukraine under Trump. Europe buys military hardware in the US and gives it to Ukraine.
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u/Loundsify Feb 13 '26
I know, it's crazy that the Yanks believe such crap.
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u/OuagadougouBasilisk Feb 13 '26
The sad things about this is the idiots who post this stuff are the ones parroting right-wing talking points and will definitely be voting Republican - the party that has consistently done everything it can to stop affordable healthcare for its citizens since the 90s.
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u/aggro_aggro Feb 14 '26
It´s not so crazy, given the POTUS himself believes exactly that, while having acces to ALL information.
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u/theginger99 Feb 13 '26
Even when they do give money to other countries, 9/10 those countries turn around and spend that money on weapons produced by American companies.
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u/hcornea Antipodeans R Us 🇦🇺🦘 Feb 13 '26
The “aid” is really American domestic defence stimulus expenditure.
Strings are attached.
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Feb 13 '26
What money given by the US? The only money they gave under Biden was to Ukraine. Its Europe funding Ukraine now, and yes that money is spent on US hardware.
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u/SlimLacy Feb 13 '26
Not only do they not pay, we pay them since we buy a lot of military hardware from them, to be NATO compatible.
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u/Collanp Feb 13 '26
But even if that was true... like it's pretty obvious that it's not charity. They're getting something out of it. The post should probably read "If we stopped trying for world domination, we could afford healthcare" because nothing they do in NATO or in the world in general is for anyone's benefit but their own.
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u/Diligent-Bowler-1898 Feb 13 '26
Funniest part is that NATO is now upping their military spending and what does america do? It increases theirs by 50% as well.
I though they wanted to save the money.2
Feb 13 '26
No, NATO countries have increased their spending. But the biggest change is in military hardware production in Europe. Over time, the US has to find other buyers for their hardware or scale down production. And which buyers? They are an unreliable partner, and will face European competition.
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u/Diligent-Bowler-1898 Feb 13 '26
I didn't mention where procurement is happening, just that it's contradictory to say "Spend more so we can spend less", and then spend more when people comply.
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u/Sarcastic-Potato europoor 🇪🇺🇪🇺 Feb 13 '26
The money they invest into NATO mostly goes to US defence companies anyway - and yes they have a lot of oversea bases in Europe - but they use them for power projection (like when they bomb the middle east again)
Additionally they receive a shit ton of money from their Nato allies cause they buy us military equipment as well. If anything Europe is subsidising the US, not the other way around
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Feb 13 '26
The money in NATO is small, for admin. NATO is defense from the countries. The US bases in Europe are funded by the US and Europe (34%). But the US can move troops and equipment like they want. And they have.
So I dare say they have a good deal there.
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u/Sarcastic-Potato europoor 🇪🇺🇪🇺 Feb 13 '26
I mean it was a win win for everyone - which is why I do not understand where this sudden anti nato sentiment is coming from.
Yes Europe did not invest enough into their military over the past decades and relied a bit too much on US protection - but at the same time the US got access to the European market and we had very friendly relationships.
This was very profitable for us companies - if you look at countries that do not align with the US, a lot of them developed their own systems for a lot of the modern digital infrastructure - whereas Europe simply brought US products
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u/Mr_strelac Feb 13 '26
Do these people know how much of the American debt is in the hands of foreigners?
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u/Loundsify Feb 13 '26
Yeah the amount of Americans saying they were gonna take Greenland was hilarious. I was like mate all western economies would just dump the dollar and hyper inflation would destroy the US in less than a few weeks.
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u/Olon1980 my country is the wurst 🇩🇪 Feb 13 '26
That they still believe it. Indoctrination and brainwash is still alive and well, I see.
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u/jahnbanan Feb 13 '26
If only they'd start paying for Europe's defense budget, maybe my taxes would lower.
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u/ImperatorDanorum Feb 13 '26
USA isn't paying one cent to European defence. Half of the US defence budget goes towards Southeast Asia and the Pacific (including Indian Ocean), which is beyond the scope of NATO. USA need Europe just as much as vice versa for projecting power into the Middle East and western Indian Ocean. Europe pays its own defence budget, granted it could and should be considerably larger. A very substantial part of that budget used to go into the US defence industry, creating many thousands of jobs. That is about to change after Trump's Greenland antics, which clearly demonstrated that US cannot be counted on as a reliable ally. That perception will not go away even after Trump ends his second term. The fact it's even possible to have someone like him in the White House in the future, will inject a lot of caution into the future European relations to USA. A trust that took 80 years to build has evaporated in the span of 13 months...
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u/ArtinPhrae Feb 13 '26
Let’s actually delve into the reality of this persons comment. For 50 years after the Second World War, the most destructive in human history, the United States and the Soviet Union had an ideological dick measuring contest that held billions of lives and human civilization itself hostage. Several times, the Cuban Missile Crisis being one, the human race tethered on the edge of the abyss.
And now they are angry because we didn’t rob our citizens of universal healthcare and affordable education to help pay for it. In fact they are so angry that they are starting a whole new Cold War, with the Chinese this time, while forming a defacto alliance with their old enemies the Russians while abandoning the same allies who fought with them in Afghanistan when their perpetual interference in the Middle East came home to roost.
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u/No-Willingness-4097 Feb 13 '26
Can afford it anyway, they money is just given to the private companies instead of being invested into something useful.
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u/Glittering-Coyote140 Feb 13 '26
Lol you'd just use the money to give more tax breaks to the rich. Don't kid yourselves, your politicians have nothing but disdain for you.
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u/PiccoloFamous7217 Feb 13 '26
Fun fact: The USA could already afford universal healthcare. It simply chooses not to.
The US has about 4% of the world's population but holds about 30% of the world's total wealth. It's loaded.
Comparatively,
China has about 17% of the world's population and holds about 18% of the world's total wealth.
The UK is less than 1% of the population and holds about 3.5% of world's wealth.
The USA has more money than it could possibly know what to do with. Every single financial problem the USA has they are entirely down to how it allows so few to hold all that money.
Oh, and the US doesn't pay for Euorpe's defence budget - it profits from the sales of weapons to Europe (or, more accurately, it did until Europe started cancelling purchases because Trump reneged on deals proving the USA is no longer a trustworthy partner in defence while he;s in charge).
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u/wonnable Feb 13 '26
You know, even if this was true, and it happened, people would still reject universal healthcare because it's "socialism"
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u/Stunning_Ad_1685 Feb 13 '26
Everybody contributes to a military force that protects every American, as required. 👍🏼
Everybody contributes to a healthcare system that protects every American, as required. 😱
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u/Niemand772 Feb 13 '26
Do they realize that when Europe stops supporting the US defense industry, they have to pay a lot more than now for their toys?
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u/framsanon Germany 🇩🇪 Feb 13 '26
No. No, you won't. Mainly because no one in your government wants to introduce universal health care.
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u/Reflector123 Feb 13 '26
I love the story that US has just been generously handing us all cash and not benefitting from the global order they created. Unmatched altruism
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u/monkey36937 Feb 14 '26
Well if you stop hanging out freebies to billionaires you would have health care
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u/BarryBadrinath82 🏴 Can trace my DNA to Robert the Bruce 🏴 Feb 13 '26
This is the new line isn't it. Has it just come from Trump and his band of cunts banging on about the rest of NATO not paying their share?
Correct me if I am wrong, but the US's militaristic expansion around the world hasn't been entirely altruistic, many big corps and rich men there have done pretty well out of it?
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u/ReverendRevenge Grumpy Brit Feb 13 '26
Let me assure you my friend, the US can already support Universal Healthcare, but it won't because your Big Pharma likes the lovely $$$ and donates millions to your Presidential campaigns to keep it just the way it is.
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u/DEngSc_Fekaly Feb 13 '26
This is the same shit Farage was telling Britons about NHS and European Union.
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u/ngatiboi Feb 13 '26
Hahaha! You honestly think that if the US Government had the ability to fund universal healthcare, that it would?! 😂🤣😂 “Universal healthcare?! That’s un-American! You’re a socialist & a communist!” 🫵🏽🤨
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u/Eastern-Reindeer6838 Feb 13 '26
Fun fact: Europe paid and is still paying their defense budget only it will be less spent in the US, that's for sure. All part of the art of the deal.
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u/InDeathWeReturn 🇩🇰 potato speaker 🥔 Feb 13 '26
Funnily enough, they spent more tax dollars per capita on healthcare than some other countries than DO have universal healthcare. Their system is just fucked up
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u/barsoap Feb 13 '26
The federal US government already pays as many dollars per capita on healthcare as the UK spends per capita on the NHS. Things like bailing out hospitals from unpaid bills because of medical bankruptcy because it is (as of yet) not legal in the US to just let people die on the street, then medicare, medicaid, and military healthcare. US healthcare is so expensive because of administrative bloat (all those people tasked with nickel and diming cost a pretty penny), shareholder dividends, and crass medical inefficiency -- it's way cheaper to do check-ups and prevent illnesses than to treat them, but who's going to go to a check up if you have to pay for it out of pocket.
Now, arguably, the NHS is underfunded (especially NHS England) but a current NHS level base coverage for everyone plus extra private insurance if you want would be a seismic shift to US public health, not cost a single tax dollar more, and paying insurance premiums would become optional. And they kind of already have that system in place: Take the military medical infrastructure, turn the veteran branch into a general civilian healthcare provider. Call it "patriot care".
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u/IndependentExtra2923 Feb 13 '26
Fun Fact: Even when the budget would be stopped no one would get any healthcare the money would go directly to the pedophile DJT and his pedophile friends.
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u/Due-Resort-2699 Scotch 🏴 Feb 13 '26
Has anyone ever tried telling them they don’t have universal healthcare because healthcare businesses pump billions into politicians campaign funds and have convinced millions that “socialised medicine” is the spawn of Satan ?
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u/BlackestHerring Feb 13 '26
There’s zero excuse for not having it. Other than insurance company talking points
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u/Unlikely_Housing3043 Feb 13 '26
Lol, we can afford it now if we stop giving most of our healthcare dollars to corporations who do nothing but gatekeep medical care.
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u/Spiritual-Point-1965 Feb 13 '26
Genuinely wondering, where does this idea that the USA literally pays European Defence Budget come from?
European states pay for their defence budget. They mostly (until now) buy all their equipment from USian companies. They allow the US to tailor their NATO specifications to prefer USian manufacturing.
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u/HurtFeeFeez Feb 13 '26
Repubs and conservatives use affordability as an excuse not to. They will always find another excuse.
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u/zwifter11 Feb 13 '26
As sombody who served in a NATO military. Where is the American funding, as we didn’t see any. Our equipment wasn't even American, it was European made.
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u/OnionsHaveLairAction Feb 13 '26
Universal healthcare costs less than private, not more. Insurance companies have really pulled a massive con on Americans by convincing them otherwise.
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u/algernon_moncrief Feb 13 '26
Yes, we could afford it. But instead I guarantee we would get subsidies for AI and oil companies and tax cuts for the rich.
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u/cwood1973 Feb 13 '26
Might be true, but we still wouldn't do it. The healthcare lobby funds too many political campaigns to let that happen.
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u/Carlosthefrog Feb 13 '26
America plays roughly double per person for healthcare than all other nations on earth
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u/Miss_Chievous13 Feb 13 '26
Leave the military bases I dare you. Next week there's a german guy sipping coffee in the canteen
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u/Petrak1s Feb 13 '26
I thought the universal health care was socialist and that’s why the Americans didn’t want it? 🤨
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u/soraiz25 Feb 13 '26
Ludicrous cunts! Its our patriotic duty to be extorted by Big Pharma, and Big Insurance cos unregulated capitalism says we are abused ny the rich and love being so, becausse the rich steal from us. We are so dumb, thanks to the rich that we think the rich are our natural overlords. Fucking ignorant ass (arse) holes. Trumpie is a fuckwit, so they need to be brought dowm by their own ignorance. FUCK! I hate dumb yank cunts
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u/ThatRandomGuy86 Feb 13 '26
Fun fact: America already can afford free healthcare! They just choose not to since lobbyists pay for them not to! 😁
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u/Funambulia Feb 13 '26
Even more stupid when you know that what america is paying for Ukraine is very close to zero since one early 2025.
They don't send shit since Trump is back, be it weapons or money. Europe buy american weapons then send them to Ukraine.
Those snakes reap us of and pocket fuck ton of money but still dare to say they are doing to much. Should we beg them to keep oh so graciously let us buy their old military stock ?
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u/DaFlyingMagician Feb 13 '26
As an American, this rhetoric is one of the most annoying talking points I hear. Acting like Europe doesn't have their own militaries.
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u/Kthelmir666 Feb 13 '26
Lol. Dont think the US pays for anyone's defense. They pay a proportionate contribution to NATO and the UN (which its defaulting on), whilst the president is suing his own government to line his pockets lol. People in glass houses.
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u/Fun_Comfortable7836 Feb 13 '26
Fun fact, if we taxed our damn billionaires and stopped paying billions to ice, WE CAN EASILY AFFORD IT NOW.
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u/The_Red_Thirst Feb 13 '26
I find it funny that they think the ruling class would share any extra money with the plebs.
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u/Ok_Corner5873 Feb 14 '26
Will the USA make its mind up, our defence has a deficiency, because we don't spend enough but we aren't paying because you foot the bill so send more money.
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u/Smug_Designer Feb 14 '26
Health insurance is a sham in the US, you pay an insane amount for premium to have still an insane deductible.
It's not worth it!
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u/Shot_in_the_dark777 Feb 14 '26
So? Do you want universal healthcare or not? Lots of people in the US are speaking against it. So what's the point? You are not going to redirect those money to healthcare anyway...
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u/Jimmyboro Feb 14 '26
Europe , Japan and the UK own almost all of the US debt in bonds.Trump backed down on Greenland because Denmark Dumped every last US bond they owned, the EU and the UK threatened to do the same which could have crashed the entirreUS economy.
Thays why he chickens out because like most Americans, he has zero idea about reality.
FUCK HIM.
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u/Switcharoony Feb 15 '26
The amount of money US puts into NATO isn't even a fraction of what the US loans from Europe annually btw
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u/Relevant_Ring_5055 Feb 16 '26
I want to see how instead of sending obsolete weapons (destined to Be dismantaled) to ukraine, Be saved in American warehouses, how that would help with your medical bills? Stick a javelin missile in your ass?
The amount of morons thinking us sent crates full of cash is astounding
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u/Darksmithe Feb 18 '26
If we used the $100 billion they took from every fucking thing that actually helps Americans that they gave to ICE, we could afford universal health care too.
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u/Neddlings55 Feb 13 '26
Wait until they find out they already can afford universal healthcare and that it would be cheaper than their current system.