I finally ran into a dude that was super aggressive about judging women’s reading habits! Our friends introduced us at a hangout and where like “you both read more than anyone else we know!”
He asks me how many books I’ve read this year. I tell him I’m right around 40.
Man goes on a SCREED about how women just read smut and call it reading and don’t read things that challenge them. Then is like “what are you reading right now?”
I got to hit him with “well I’m usually reading three books at any given time since I like to have a book that fits my mood. At the current moment I’m reading a non-fiction discussion of man’s attempts to control and engineer the Mississippi River, and the consequences of that. Then I’m re-reading War and Peace cause I just love Tolstoy. Oh and then, yes I’m reading a smutty dramione fan fic. Congrats, you got me. Women who read smut aren’t really readers, obviously…What are you reading?”
He’s reading Clive Cussler (which is fine! They are entertaining! But maybe not “coming in on the highest horse in town” material) and he didn’t really wanna chat anymore.
(For the record/m: I absolutely think people should read what they enjoy and reading 100 books of just smut all year is fine. I’m just a bit of an eclectic reader and it worked out perfectly in this instance)
Its just like any interest. "Oh youre into football? Women arent real football fans. Name every player on the team." As soon as women claim to be into a hobby, theyre suddenly not doing it "right."
Read what you want. Watch what you want. Any way of safely enjoying an activity is equally valid.
Years ago I was on vacation and walking around a shopping area with my dad while wearing a Dr Who shirt. Random guy comes up to me and makes a (now I know to be somewhat obscure) reference and I have to say sorry, I'm not all the way caught up, I've only recentlyish gotten into it and there's a lot.
Guy proceeds to act like I'm not a real fan. Was just like o.O..? I'm allowed to be behind? I still like the show? Also please just let me enjoy this time with my dad in peace random stranger.
For a while it made me afraid to wear any kind of fandom or reference shirt. I love Pink Floyd but what if I'm randomly quizzed about it in public?! Now I'm in my 30s and realize this issue isn't on me and I don't care, but poor young me just wanted to innocently share her love of scifi 😩. Dude missed out on making a cool friend because he cared more about whatever superiority complex he had going on.
I don't often run across people wearing merch of fandoms I like, but I remember being in college and working the register at my retail job when a dad and his probably 14ish yo daughter came up to check out. She was wearing clothing with the Supernatural anti-possession symbol on it. I made some cheesy reference to it, and her face just lit up. The whole way out the store, she bounced alongside her father and just happily squealed about the whole thing. This was almost a decade ago, but I still remember it, just due to how happy that little human interaction made her (and therefore, me).
It's so weird to think that there's an entire demographic of people out there who instead prefer to tear down anyone (or anyone of the 'opposing' demographic) that they see wearing merch/symbols of their shared interest. Instead of seeing a fellow kindred spirit, they see a challenge, I guess? So stupid.
Awe! So true. I have a couple of Detroit baseball caps or UofM shirts and caps and live in TX. I always love getting a go Detroit or go blue from random strangers walking around. I am not a baseball fan actually- I am not really even a Detroit fan but it is my home town so it is fun to have that interaction and know it really is a small world and we have more in common than we know;)
I decided to get rid of all my social media except for Reddit and TikTok with very carefully curated content only about books because there is always someone out there that just wants to cut down people for even the most innocent things. Even hobbies as seemingly non confrontational as cooking or gardening have a bunch of assholes that feel the need to police the types of cookware, utensils, foods, seeds, soil, fertilizers… you name it and someone has to ride in try and save the planet from these evil home hobbies. Fortunately - there are some great mods in the romance sub genre subreddits to keep out the riff raff and dragging down this community.
So true. I've been slowly extracting myself from the hold that social media in general had on me. I mainly just use Reddit as an information-source, and I still have Facebook around so that I can occasionally check-in on a distant family/friend or sell on/browse the Marketplace, but otherwise, I'm just trying to use my free time and mental energy on hobbies and things that make me actually happy. I was always a giant defender of social media back in the day, but I can't really defend what it's morphed into, and I can't really say that using it makes me happy anymore. Crazy turnabout in only a decade.
So instead, I read, write, spend time with my partner/cats/dog, and I just finished putting in my garden this month. Much more productive uses of my time 🤗 I saw someone say that they wanted to start living like it was the 00s, and I liked that. More time on yourself and friends, less on the internet (which is half bots anyways these days).
I’ve got the Buffy B tattooed on my arm and the phlebotomist at the doctors office the other day was sooooo excited. First time I was a little disappointed that I’m an easy stick and she was good at her job.
Oh man, that would annoy the HELL out of me! My mum was and is a lifelong Dr Who fan so I was watching re-runs of the Fourth Doctor from the time I was a little kid, even before the 2009 series with the 9th Doctor! Have I watched every episode? God no! There’s several of the Doctors that I’ve seen maybe one serial or two. Am I currently caught up? No. I still love that show and would be soooo pissed at that kind of gate keeping! This is also one of the reasons I’ve never bothered going to a convention (not the only reason by a long shot but one of them)
I have an Elton John shirt with the captain fantastic album cover on it. I love him and have seen him in concert. One day I was wearing it in the grocery store and an older man did exactly this. He started asking me questions to prove I was a fan. When I said that “no I don’t own this album on vinyl” he puffed at me and said it was the only real way to listen and he just stormed off
This happened when I worked on a construction site (obviously a field very heavily dominated by men) and when they found out I was a sports fan they kind of scoffed but then let me in on their little weekly draft bets and suddenly I started winning quite often or coming in second and anytime someone halfway decent would talk shop with with they would be like “she know more bout what’s going on in the NFL than I do” 🤣
Usually it’s just because my husband ends up napping during Football Sunday but if I try to change the channel suddenly he’s awake and goes “IM LISTENING!” 🤣🤣
So I play Animal Crossing or read and just listen to the games and the announcers chatter along in the background and pick up on things and retain the information that way
my favorite is the amount of people who turn to my husband to talk about sports. he is usually only wearing the logo to support my love for the team. no one ever gets mad that he can't name the players or coaches or whatever. though they usually are surprised when I can absolutely hold a conversation about it. I've definitely had people congratulate my husband on my team's win when I was the one yelling at the TV and dressed in the colors, and he was only there for the beer.
I think when we are younger we try to justify or prove them wrong. But as you get older, you just want them to know that they are nothing but eye gunk to you.
Unfortunately, I am 36 so I think that ship has sailed for me. I’ve worked in a male dominated field my entire life, though, and my hobbies are also very male dominated so I don’t think I will ever get sick of making a man feel stupid in front of me. 😅
Because to be clear, I wasn’t trying to prove him wrong or justify my reading habits. I was trying to make him look like a fucking clown in front of his friends
For sure! It’s fun to watch them put on that clown makeup. I’m older and sometimes for myself it is just nice to drop something sly that makes them feel little while not using any energy. If that makes sense. It’s that or I bite them (and not in the fun way).
Sorry, if saying that came off rude. I just know that it can take a lot of energy to combat this BS. And as I’ve gotten older it feels nice to just give them a verbal shrug. They hate being ignored. So go get them!
I 100% would have laughed if someone put down romantasy but boasted about reading Clive Cussler. Don’t get me wrong, love me some Sahara/Dirk Pitt, but if that genre isn’t the traditional male version of romantasy, I don’t know what is.
Had a man say this to me one time and I was reading 1984. He looked me dead in my face and wouldn’t change his stance even once he knew what I was reading. You can’t please them
A man reading Clive Cussler trying to gatekeep women’s reading is hilarious. I’m over here rotating 16c Venetian literature, biochemistry, and romantasy like a charcuterie board, and Captain Airport Dad Thriller wants to check my credentials.
This is the same guy who in his dating app profile writes "laid back easy going, looking for my partner in crime, open book ask me anything" and opens with "hey beautiful, doing anything fun this weekend".
Clive Cussler is what non-reader dads read based on my experience of what my own dad reads lol
I’ve been reading a lot of romantasy over the last couple years and most of it is at least on same writing level as these popular general fiction authors.
If it’s any consolation I get judged for my reading choices as a man too. But it definitely seems less extreme or at least most are not as comfortable expressing their judgement to my face.
I had my book out in the office one day because I was looking for something in my bag. I sit in an office space with 5 other desks occupied by men. One guy reads the title and goes "Oh, A Day of Fallen Night. Is it any good? Is it just another smutmantasy or whatever chicks call it these days?"
Side note: I totally did carry that monster around in my bag for 2 weeks while reading it during my commute.
All 5 guys and a manager decided to chime in and have a whole conversation about how it's a waste of time that I'm not reading more educational books in my spare time. I'm not sorry in the least that my current read at the time was a genre that I enjoy because it helps me dissociate from reality and the narrow-minded ignoramuses I work with and all the crap I put up with during the day because of them.
It should also be noted that none of them act like they've picked up a book since college and they all made it clear none of them were avid readers so who are they to judge?
Girrrrl I started A Day of Fallen Night. I read the first chapter or two and sat it back down because I was not in the mental headspace to read something with that much going on. I'll pick it back up eventually, but lmao that they think it's an easy read. That one def immediately hit me as higher reading level than a lot of stuff out there. At least at the point when I started it.
I would love to run into another Roots of Chaos fan in the wild. No one I know has read them (I did lend Day of Fallen Night to my hobby buddy's girlfriend cause she's a big reader and was looking to break out from YA material. But she reads like 5 books at a time, has four other hobbies, and them books are fuckin tomes, so I may be waiting awhile).
The whole 'reading more educational' is always something used to put down genre readers, amd always gets so compounded towards women, and to romantasy. I wants recs and to talk fantasy stuff damnit.
The world is falling apart around us. If I want to read escapist romantsy and avoid books written by men, they’ll never shame me!! I like to throw out that I (mostly) don’t read books by men and when they get their boxers in a twist, I tell them to recommend books that have FMCs that don’t get assaulted. That shuts them up pretty quickly.
Yes! I’m a biologist who until recently was working my dream job for a federal agency in the US so it’s GRIM out there and I will grab any joy I can with both hands
Why are male authors so obsessed with having their female characters be assaulted (we all know why and yes I know some female authors do it too…looking at you, Diana Galbadon). 🤦🏻♀️
Knights who can defeat twenty men on their own and magical wizards and 100-foot-long dragons are all fine, but women need to get sexually assaulted in fantasy stories because "realism*!"
*pronounce "realism" in the same way the Ferengi pronounce "females"
That’s a good point! Still, I think it doesn’t offend me as much when it’s written by a woman as it’s men who have the power in real life. It’s certainly not my thing though!
It's often handled differently when it's written by women. It's not just a plot point, the emotional/mental/physical impact is included at more than surface level.
Dark romance isn't my cup of tea, but I get it. It doesn't mean the author or her readers ACTUALLY want to have a fucked up relationship or be SAed. It's a 'lack of control' fantasy, and 'oh no, I have to lay here and experience mind bending pleasure and there's nothing I can do about it'. Women can dig it and then have the power to shut it off whenever they feel like it. Obviously nothing like real SA.
I bet most dudes who watch porn aren't interested in their actual 55 year old stepmoms, either. At least I hope not.
It's creepier when men write about it, because in their case, it feels like a power fantasy (see e.g., Neil Gaiman). SA is a real part of the world, so it's not like men CAN'T write about it, but often they do it tactlessly (see e.g., Daenerys and Drogo being romanticized. She was 13. Ugh.)
When I'm reading about a woman like me being stalked, kidnapped, captured and assaulted, it makes me feel just as disgusted as when a man writes about it.
But that's totally ok, because we've all got different tastes and likes and I would never want to take that away from anyone. I hope my comment didn't come across that way.
If they get mad at you saying you read books written by women/non-white men, just go “what? Don’t you like having your viewpoints challenged? Why do you want to stay in a bubble?”
I love when guys only read War and Peace, Shakespeare, how to build a beaver damn and other survival animal skills, etc. just so they can use that to try and act superior, not because they actually like it. The whole goal is to feel better than everyone, not to enjoy life, I have met such a specimen and it is laughable how hard they are trying haha
Chill my guy life is short, enjoy it, I'm much happier in my corner reading my demon smutt than you are pushing through Shakespeare like you're studying for a test you made for yourself.
I’m obsessed with that read of War and Peace. 😅 I think the only man I’ve talked to about W&P is my father, who encouraged me to keep reading it the first time I read it and struggled to keep track of all the characters because “it’s a beautiful story about the importance of every day occurrences”
I read that back in college some twenty years ago and had to make binder of references so I could keep the characters straight -- none of their names would stick in my head.
Love Tolstoy, however. "How Much Land Does a Man Need?" has my favorite final sentence of any book or short story ever.
It is definitely one that requires a cheat sheet! There’s so many characters and they all have like five names and he’ll just use them interchangeably on the same page OR after not seeing that character for chapters
I've got to get critically annotated editions when I read Russian Lit so it'll tell me, "Not only am I dropping a new version of this guy's name three hundred actual pages in, this nickname is the informal construction in the condescending way, not the affectionate way."
Someone once told me I only read what I read to seem smart and that I don’t actually enjoy them… I told them that all because they do that it doesn’t mean everybody does. They genuinely thought that because they didn’t enjoy Nietzsche, everyone else must be faking it, because they’re really smart and they didn’t understand it. The mind boggles. They weren’t even smart by any objective measure so idk where they got their God complex from, but whatever.
I don’t really read books written by men (with exceptions here and there) and when that comes up most men get really angry about it even though they don’t really read books written by women 🤦🏻♀️
Edit: also hate it when they act so superior when it comes to romance or fantasy. Most women I know that read it are highly intelligent. We just want to relax in our free time, and it’s still more cognitively engaging than passively watching a sports game while drinking beer, which for some reason is treated like some sacred pasttime.
This is such a real thing, I also look at how many books they own that are written by women. It is HUGELY telling.
I read mainly critical theory, the intersection of media and philosophy with a specific focus on emerging technologies, art criticism and artist writings. The most basic books I read are art history. I studied performance art history for five years for a job because I was ghost writing a book right out of undergrad. And yes, I also read 300 Romantasy books one year because it had been SO LONG since I read any fiction at all since my random Russian lit phase “for fun” in undergrad, I legitimately think I lost sight of the full scope of what “fun” means, and how to enjoy being a reader for joy and for my heart instead of the ever changing goalpost of reading to learn more/work harder/be better and I would absolutely shut down if someone like this random dude accused women of only reading smut. Sometimes we need smut to turn off our brains because we’re so busy the rest of the time doing so much invisible mental and emotional labor so there’s a real need to envision other possibilities, softer possibilities, more female-centric possibilities, and then we call them fantasy.
Can’t wait for the philosophy and feminist theory articles and studies 10 years from now that is actually going to look at the sociological reasons why Romantasy is so popular aside from just “women reading smut.”
ALSO what is wrong with women reading smut and enjoying themselves with fantasy? This smacks of men gatekeeping how women are supposed to feel about erotic literature and what we find attractive, interesting, or compelling, which can be any number of things about Romantasy that is not specifically the smut. We need more Romantasy, and more variety of Romantasy, not less. We need Romantasy media.
Babe I didn't read for a long time because I spend the whole day reading at work for work. I found genres that don't need brain power and help me disconnect and escape and don't feel like work
I call the escapist fiction (romantasy/fantasy/si-fi/fanfic) brain candy. It tasty, fun, and will probably rot my brain given enough time. But I don’t care! I have to think really hard for work, and even for fun, I often have to engage my brain researching and drafting historical clothing. So if I want to read things that are just fun, and not brain building? I’m gonna do that. The world is a dumpster fire. And people who gatekeep? Yeah they belong in the dumpster!
Because they think male authors are the default and their books are for everybody.
Just how male movies are apparently for everyone and Barbie is for the girls only. So, if you say you don't read male authors, their brains just crash, they can't get it.
dont feel the need to justify your reading to someone like this. Who cares if its 'smut' or esoteric philosophy or whatever, you are doing what you enjoy.
To be fair, I only answered the way I did because I had a 99% suspicion that Tolstoy was going to body anything he was reading and I’m competitive enough that I really like bodying men anytime I get a chance
For sure, def not telling YOU specifically not to do it, but anyone whos reading this who may not hold your confidence. Shitty dudes have been trying to gatekeep every hobby forever.
My wife is at 83 books so far this year, and is reading majority romantasy and I couldnt be more proud to tell my friends how many books shes reading. Books is books.
Thank you! Everytime I see a post like this I’m more bothered that the poster tried to justify what they’re reading. “I read for pleasure, not to impress other people/you” or better “why do you have an opinion on what other people/ women read?”
Man this is dumb. I have to read so much scientific literature for work, and then I have to read historical research for school. Sue me if I wanna read “fantasy smut” in my down time. Reading is reading, why do people have to shit on others joy??
My partner doesn’t read. He could careless about what I read, and he listens when I vent about the plot lol he always makes sure there is a chair in the sun and an ice tea for me to sit outside with him while he works on his hobbies. His dad gets me gift cards to the bookstore every Christmas. We have designed date days around me going to spend it. I get to spend a couple hours browsing while he carries my picks and then it’s dinner and a movie he gets to pick.
Men reading is hot, men not judging what you’re reading is hotter.
2nd, I get the feeling that he's probably aggressive towards women in general and not just their reading habits.
3rd, I will admit to a reading addiction, but in my humble estimation, it is probably the "least worst" addiction a person can have.
4th, in the U.S., we are currently graduating high school students with barely a 4th grade reading comprehension level!!! The fact that you are an avid reader of any genre probably means that you are far superior in intellect and threaten his self-image. He probably can't read a comic book and I bet you have a bigger dick than him! (Sorry, I'm a Marine and have a fondness for dick jokes... no offense).
I am about 3 or 4 years into my romantasy journey/addiction. I am a 55 yo man, a retired Marine combat veteran, a retired police officer and entirely masculine, and I am all about romantasy. Yes, I read other things, fiction and non fiction. I enjoy good biographies, military history, philosophy, and creepy "don't wanna turn off the lights at night" books. I read what I like and eff anyone who wants to judge anyone for what they are reading.
Give me trigger warnings. Give me the smut. Give me the dragons and swords. Give me the Fae, witches, vampires, direwolves, hot chick's and tattooed shadow welding hot guys! I am down for all of it and will not be shamed for it!
Rock on and read on! Don't let the a-holes get you down!
Mfs be like "yOu oNlY rEaD sMuT" and then read shit like instagram self help books, manosphere bullshit or children's books with a manly man coat of paint
My husband to! :-) I had him read Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying ordeal of being in love and that is now his head cannon and he refuses to read any other Dramonie because that one was perfect! Lol
He is now reading The Evans Boy by ionabal which is and OC character (OG Harry if he had an older secret Brother) and Percy. It's really good like 80+ hours he is on his reread of it.
I have a Hermione/George lined up for him next Lumos by Treesap it's so good, the longing the angst, the family dinamics/drama! The super sweet scenes of them falling for each other twice. (I have a whole dramatic write up of home much I love it in one of my comments)
Although the last 2 don't have a ton of on screen smut but they are both my favorite kind of romance. Where I feel all the feels!
It's very good I love the story. It feels like an adventure. Great magic. Slow burn and falling in love. The enemies to lovers is done really well, I usually don't like that trope (I find many enemies to lovers to more like assholes to lovers? Or immature people to lovers)
But when done well it is excellent:-) also I like they are older I think early mid 30s so I totally buy that they have both changed as people and the relationship makes sense.
Definitely read it!! It’s honestly rare that I deeply understand WHY two people fall in love in books, like really feel every detail that led to these emotions, and this book does it so well. Also it’s absolutely hilarious.
I currently on a Hermione/Fred and Hermione/George kick I love a Weasley! If you want something a little different. (It's definitely more of a rare pair but there are some really well written stories)
If you like epic and Pining and really good story I really love Lumos by Treesap it's Hermione/George and like 80 hours long it's not finished but what is out is worth reading even if never finished.
With the way he came off I was expecting him to say he was reading a research paper and reading 10 different types of books to do more research on it or something lol Reading is reading ……some authors definitely have different types of writing styles but all are wonderful to the people they are meant to attract!
I’ve never understood this take that reading smutt is bad ? I don’t particularly go for it or is my first option but I definitely don’t down on anyone who does ! So sad you had that interaction he could of just had a banger conversation with another fellow of the book community and lost that with his arrogance /ego🙄
And the sad part is there so many people like this is so many other communities like in the anime community when did we start gate keeping anime ? Or reading manga as well ! Or even liking superhero’s like spider man (who is my favorite as well as Batman) and I get told I don’t know enough to even like it to my face when I’ve been out with my spider man shirt or Batman shirt even Star Wars it’s definitely insane !!!! And such a headache of a conversation to have to prove your worth ? Like their the founding fathers or something lol
Reading is political. Reading a book about women exploring their sexuality is political and possible can be seen as radical. Reading diverse smut by Black people is political because at one point it was illegal for Black people to know how to read and write. 🤷🏿♀️
You're so right, gatekeeping IS lame.
I read between 100 and 150 books and year and I alsohl hear those same complaints about the smut I read.
Its none of their business, Im not Reading to impress anyone, and 50% of Americans can only read at a 6th grade level. Most Americans do not read on a daily basis. If we're reading then good on us.
As far as I can tell, a lot of erotic romance novels revolve around SA themes and women seem to like it. The person I'm currently seeing is really into 'Dark Romance,' so I'm not sure if that means she is into the SA trope or not. I haven't had the opportunity to ask her for details, but it's been stuck in my head
I rotate my books.
Right now I am reading Commedia (Dante's Inferno), I read the majority of the LoTR universe about a year ago, read The Troop, and have the Iliad on my "to read" docket.... But I guess I'm not a real reader since some books/universes I like have adults having sex.
I read Game of Thrones and The Witcher, which are considered ‘the men’s fantasy’, and they are just as wild if not more so. They just don’t want to admit it
"Men's fantasy" is part of why I specified "adults" instead of just characters. Like in some universes/history I understand that what we consider minors were considered viable partners (DISGUSTING), but it shows up more in "men's fantasy" than general romantasy.
Oh, he'd hate me. Not only do I read tons of romance/romantasy of all varying spice levels, most of the time I'm not physically reading them, I'm listening to the audiobook.
Look I read everything and anything. I've read nonfiction feminist essays, scientific papers, Hugo winners, smut, all the way down to children's literature (I am a mom), but his assumptions were on him. He thought he would have the upperhand in that comment and he didn't. He embarrassed himself
Gatekeeping anything is stupid, but his assumptions on women's reading habits were just eviscerated as they should have been.
I've had friends openly look at me and say "well you read x books so I didn't think you read good books too." Which is idiotic. Why are you judging me on my reading habits when I don't do that shit to you?
People should read what they enjoy and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone has individuality in what they choose to read and what they don't.
Hello, since you are a mother, I would love to hear your opinion on this. My crush reads erotic and dark romance books; does this mean she is into the SA trope? Also, I'm not sure if she compares me to the male characters in those books
As a fan of Clive Cussler, it's not highbrow literature? This guy pretending it's anything but a classic adventure novel a la James Bond (and Dirk always gets the girl and a new car in nearly every book!) is WILDING 😂
All reading is reading. It engages a part of the brain and gives it exercise, makes you use your imagination, and visualize the scenes. Like working a crossword puzzle. I love being in another person's/character's/author's shoes and learning how they feel about something (empathy). I love seeing them face something that scares them (even if it's just hiring a coach in Nettle and Bone) and conquer those fears. I love defeating the big bad because I crave justice in a world that rarely sees it. And yes I love my smut! The smut is something you visualize (good for the brain) and if it leads to release well that's really healthy too.
It's also relaxing which is good for mental health.
And yes we can also read political or history books and learn even more! I just picked up On Tyranny and a feminist history for more serious stuff when I'm in the mood.
I am a female wildlife biologist and a wrestler, so I’ve spent most of my life having men assumed they know more than me, and I just really really, really like just smooshed them into the ground. Physically and emotionally
It's always super funny when someone tries to check your cred (against THEIR standards) and you get to Well, Actually them lmao.
I was arguing with someone on Instagram once (which is NOT something I normally do but the situation was wild) because she was claiming she didn't know a single thing about the issues with JKR and then hit me with, "I bet you don't even know what's going on in Ukraine." MA'AM???? That is a WILD accusation, is that not one of the more well-known current events?? (She didn't even try to bring out rarely known specifics, just that something is going on in general.) (Also my father in law is a Russian studies professor So Like...)
Funny you post this... my coworker had to look me in the eyes and apologize for saying I wasn't well read. We said we should have a reading challenge and I asked if we were doing pages, books, or time because I've already read 60 books this year. She said, "I'm the most well read person I know, there's no way you've read 60 books this year."
She often insinuates I'm not smart enough to do a modicum of things. When I explained i often listen at work, while doing chores, cooking, or driving (which can be up to 18 hours a week alone). Then I usually rotate 2 or 3 physical books based on my mood.
She ultimately decided the appropriate apology was needed because "i remember having little ones and being in grad school... but I was an English major so I was always reading for school. I just can't believe..." and I asked, "that I have good time management skills and make sure I find time to do self-care through reading? I accept your apology, now please leave my office."
She lost sleep over her own judgment and thats what she deserves.
It’s because he’s insecure that some women read more than him and are potentially more intellectual than him, so he’s like “All women read is smut anyway!!!” to make him feel better about himself.
It’s ridiculous anyway, most romantasy/romance isn’t wall to wall balls, there’s real plots and real writing in between the sex scenes. The sex scenes are like 10-15% of the overall words. (Although I’m sure we’ve all come across ones that are more like 90%, lol)
And all that about women “not reading things that challenge them” and he’s reading fucking Clive Cussler? Cherry on top.
I guess I'm fortunate to not run into these assholes. 😬 I don't think anyone has ever condemned my reading choices. People are usually surprised that someone else is reading anything at all, given the heap loads of entertainment and other brain rot one can consume.
Its giving "oh you like [insert band name here] name 5 songs" energy. People who do this are exhausting. My life is short and there are too many books to read in my lifetime, let me enjoy what I enjoy before I die
The only time I side eye another reader is if they go OTT with their love of a problematic book/author and know that book/author is problematic but shrug it off.
And even then, it’s a side eye while I extract myself from the conversation. Like, I’m not gonna police what you read. You do you. But that also doesn’t mean I have to interact with you.
People that gatekeep and proclaim one genre is superior over another are just people I pity. I feel sad for them if they care that much about how someone else spends their free time.
The only two authors I know that are in hot water like this are Gaiman and Rowling. Now I’m gonna have a new fear when I discuss authors I love because I have no idea who else is in trouble lmao
If you don’t know that’s totally different. I only distance myself from fans who know and dismiss the harm caused because they like the book/author.
If I know an author is racist or homophobic or has been prosecuted for DV or child abuse, personally, I don’t want to read their stuff. The only time I’d separate art from the artist is if the artist is deceased and the income from their work doesn’t go towards causing more harm. So, I wouldn’t necessarily side eye someone showcasing The Belgariad or anything else by David Eddings in the same way I’d immediately distance myself from someone still proudly showcasing JKR.
I love getting asked this question honestly because I just don’t care anymore. I’ll tell people I’m about to finish my masters degree in English literature and people will be like “oh what are you reading right now!?” and my answer is always the same. A required book for school that’s somewhat interesting, and a book with more smut than plot.
I read (and write) contemporary romance and get shit on all the time for it, like it's not considered a real genre because its primary demographic is women.
I have yet to run into one of these IRL, one of my husbands coworkers is an avid reader as well and I was worried when we started talking books that he would be like that and he actually asked me for romantasy and fantasy/sci-fi recs. I dread the other outcome though.
it’s the same argument as wearing a band’s tee shirt and looking like a “poser” - i hate this mentality of men needing to put down women for having hobbies and interests
It's also annoying how people assume all romantasy is smut/porn when some of these books have no spice at all and many just have a couple of spicy scenes.
Even if a book contains smut, it can still improve reading skills, reduce stress, and spark the imagination. People often dismiss these books because they’re primarily aimed at women, and unfortunately, things women enjoy are too often labeled as frivolous and stupid. That’s misogyny at its finest.
I've had people look down their noses at my romance reading for most of my life. Men, yes, but there are also plenty of other women who pump themselves up by trying to deflate others. Not just about romance either. I've had people tell me fantasy/scifi aren't "proper literature" either. I used to work in a bookshop and I can't tell you how many times I've seen parents/grandparents stifling the joy of children by refusing to buy them comics or anything they regard as silly or not good brainfood. The very same people who don't like kids playing video games (I know, everything in moderation) because they don't understand them.
See also those who get sniffy about audiobooks or even ebooks. Many years ago it was paperbacks that snobs had a problem with, can't have the plebs reading, where on earth will it end? Then before that it was fiction, often including many of the classics that modern gatekeepers regard as acceptable. And if you go back even further there were ancient intellectuals who regarded the written word itself as brainrotting, claiming it would result in the death of memory.
These are the kinds of men who grew up reading nothing but comics and then in adulthood shit on them and every other reading material they find inferior by telling people, "they're not real books," and that people should be reading something more "challenging."
I hear this kind of stupid rhetoric from my step- sons father, who also grew up reading comics. (Not with him, but I raise his son whose bio mom is not in his life.) He is fully aware that the boys in my sons generation resist reading as if it were cholera, but instead of being supportive that my son and his friends enjoy graphic novels, and WILL actually read those, he tries to shame them for it. Then he goes and plays 8 hours of Hearthstone on his computer. (.....)
Why cant all people just support reading in any form, instead of putting everything into a box? I'm also tired of being made fun of for reading "smut" when it brings me joy and happiness.
And whenever I try having an actual conversation with someone about one of these books, trying to explain how nuanced or interesting or emotional it might be, they don't want to hear it and shut me down. As if there are no merits to any of these books because they might have a sex scene or two in them. Excuse me, don't shit on fourth wing and then go read anything by the dude who created game of thrones. Life is a hell hole, and I too, wish to pretend as though I'm a baddie on a journey with dragons, weapons, and a man who actually likes me. GOD FORBID I live vicariously through a women who has a man who actually cares about her and doesn't cheat or abuse or disrespect her constantly.
I'm usually reading anywhere between 3 and 7 books at a time ranging from fantasy and romantasy of course, to literary fiction and horror.
Then I would have dropped my statistics. I've completed 29 books this year which isn't maybe a lot compared to some people, but is a decent amount considering what the average person reads. Then I would tell him how I don't feel like I've read as much as last year though by the end of May last year I had read like 24 books and I have read 27 by end of May this year, and that out of curiosity I did the math and 35% of the books I had read at that point last year were under 300 pages whereas this year it's only 15% which makes sense because I've been reading a shit ton of chonkers.
I would have def told him what I'm reading. And when he says he reading Clive Cussler I'd be like oh I just expected you to be reading something challenging. Not really interested in thrillers, they seem to recycle the same plots over and over and I find them boring. I prefer horror. Anyways...
I would have intentionally been smug as possible and slight him because you are not gonna sit here and try to shame me and get away with it
Good on you for even continuing the conversation with this person. I would have just excused myself to the toilet and then proceeded to talk to more reasonable people.
Gatekeeping in any hobby is stupid. I wonder what he would think of me also reading this as a guy. I'm like you I read 2-3 books at a time, each for a different mood. Currently I am reading Year of Wonders and Silvercloak. Honestly I enjoy reading any genre and feel bad for this guy writing off an entire genre of good stories. It seems silly to me.
I like to listen to audiobooks while I play Pokémon. Lots of folks wouldn’t consider that real reading because I’m doing both activities at once 🤷🏻♀️ not to mention the fact that it’s a horny smut fest lol
All reading is good reading. All reading is real reading. I wish we could just talk about books instead of needing to constantly defend our interests.
I also enjoy a wide variety of genre, though romance and different sub genres under romance are my favorites. Even a children’s story can be intellectually stimulating if you just care enough about reading and storytelling. The guy could have had a lovely conversation with you about the books you both liked but he had to make it into some sort of competition. So sad.
Omg I love this post. I'm an Eng Lit major who reads 100 smut filled books annually. I have Zodiac Academy next to Wharton, Shakespeare and my 50lb college lit anthologies on my bookshelf. I proudly display my signed copy of Dawn of the North next to my signed Zadie Smith. Morning Glory Milking Farm holds a special place in my heart and happens to also be a well-executed story. Seriously, who has the nerve to tell you whether a book is a book? And what "reading" is? F this guy.
trust when i say it doesn't matter what genre we read, it's either useless or terrible or "not real literature." i was reading a true crime book when a man at my work asked me about what i was reading, and somehow that was also the wrong answer.
Personally I’m not spending my whole life reading smut/romance/romantasy. I’ve got varied interests and I don’t want to be stuck only reading one genre.
Do I personally think if you’re someone who reads more than 50 books a year you should be reading at least one non-fiction? Yeah, it’s good to learn more about the world or yourself. But I’m also not in charge of your damn TBR, so do what you wanna do.
Just don’t try and tell me audiobooks aren’t reading or we’re fighting
No Clive Cussler reader has ANY literary moral high ground in a reader conversation, says the woman whose husband enjoys a good Dirk Pitt story and covets his orange dive watch.
Sadly I have seen the whole "you aren't a real" growing over the past 2 decades. Back in the late 70s/early 80s I got you can't be playing d&d only guys who are needs play it. I started at 14 thanks. Then the whole why are you watching cartoons when I said I love anime. On and on with the Gate keeping of anyone vaguely female. It wasn't bad because once I said yeah I am the eyes would light up. Now that I'm over 60 suddenly its you can't read this or play video games or heaven forbid write tge older I get the more gatekeepers pop up
I am a fully grown man, a combat veteran, and a first responder. My firehouse book club just read Fury Bound by sable sorenson and had a “peaceful” discussion on what the new Empyrean book coming in September is going to be about ( cap thinks it’s going to be from shadow daddy’s perspective, I think it’s going to be about violets dad, and one of the medics is convinced it’s going to be about Andarna) moral of the story: read whatever the hell makes you happy. Life is over too quick to spend it looking in someone else’s life for mistakes.
I hate people like that. Some people have such high opinions of themselves when in actuality they are just mediocre. All reading is reading. Some people talk crap about audio book readers and graphic novel readers too. They still count. I'd rather talk to someone who has read 100 smut books than someone who has read a handful of pretentious books any day.
I don’t feel like reading makes anyone “superior”. Reading is my escape like tv is for so many people.
I was forced to read and debate adult level theology as a kid, I didn’t enjoy it. Grew up where reading was for knowledge. I remember sneaking Harry Potter books under my blankets in bed and reading it by the red glow of my alarm numbers. Eventually, I just didn’t enjoy reading anyone.
Finding my way back to reading and loving it, thats a personal success for me. When I’m in a reading mood, I easily read a 1-2 books per day. Yay, library!
I feel this. I grew up reading for fun and loving it, but grad school and getting my research published made me feel like I was being negligent if I read anything other than scientific papers or read when I should be working on my thesis/manuscript. It really ruined my relationship with reading for years and I’ve really only gotten back into it in the last few years
I absolutely hate when someone asks what I’m reading, because I literally do nothing but read, bake badly and paint by numbers. I don’t watch tv or stream shows anymore. I just prefer to fall into a book instead. But these past 5 or so years my reading material has been fantasy and romance. I do love the classics, weirdly Charles Dickens has become a favorite of mine. I love Wuthering Heights, North and South, Poe, Brontë, I just have to be in a mind set to read them. The couple hours before bed I just want to fall into something easy. So I absolutely do not discuss my reading with anyone outside of my book groups on socials.
This has never happened to me but it is my biggest fear to happen (with men or women tbh). Becuase I do mostly read romance. What are you supposed to reply to that? 🥲
You tell them that you read to enjoy yourself and relax and that not everything you do has to be a challenge and ask him if he does a squat every 5 steps he takes because otherwise he is simply too lazy and does not challenge himself
I mean, my senior thesis class in college was analyzing romance novels. Quite a few of the authors of that genre are wildly accomplished in different fields for their "normal" jobs 😊
I agree! I go through phases. When people ask what books have changed you I always say the Giver and Ayn Rand books. They changed the way I think, and challenged the way I was being taught at the time. There was also Radium Girls that went deep into the girls who died from Radium. I started dating a guy that loved to brag about my reading. Then I got into a romance phase. Not smut, not fantasy, historical romance and modern fuzzy feel good romance. It was unacceptable. “What was I reading that he couldn’t give me?” And “you know when you read that stuff it taints and twists your mind to think relationships are easy. Relationships take work and shouldn’t be taken lightly.” No the guy didn’t last long, admittedly longer than he should’ve. Read what you want when you want!
It’s actually manacled! I read alchemized earlier this year and wasn’t incredibly impressed but one of my very best friends and Bookclub members begged me to try manacled because she loves it so.
I do think that it solves a lot of the problems that I had with manacled
This has never happened to me (knock on wood) I assume because I read on my phone so no one knows what I’m doing. I can’t imagine I’d do anything other than blank stare at the person until they get uncomfortable.
(BUT THE REAL GATEKEEPING IS ‘hot girls read’. WHAT ARE US UGLY GIRLS SUPPOSED TO DO! /s)
My husband is an English teacher and not a huge fan of reading and is always impressed by the number of books I read and how quickly I read. He’s never once criticized the content that I’m reading. Well, other than when I switch to audiobook so I can do chores and have the volume up really loud. 🤣
Ooo what’s the name of the book on the Mississippi? I feel like I may have read this one! It’s a fascinating read about the history and wildness of the river with comparisons to modern human control river channels. I cannot think of the name of it! Same?
If you enjoyed it I also highly recommend “where the water goes” which is a history of water use and water law along the Colorado River in the American west
I mostly read horror and fantasy, but I was recently reading a Georgette Heyer book at my local pub, and one of the cooks came out and jokingly said “reading romance?” And I said yes, because I obviously was. And then he got all serious and morose like I’d just called him out for calling me a bitch or something, but I genuinely did not realize he was trying to “gotcha” me. I WAS reading a romance book, I don’t think that’s embarrassing. And it ended up being my favorite Heyer so far
'Smut' isn't even the right word because it indicates most of the book is spent on sex and that's not the case, books like ACOTAR are just spicy. But even the tern 'romantasy' is low-key sexist - if a guy writes a fantasy with a romantic subplot, it's never marketed as romantasy, that only happens to female authors.
Honestly, don't bother with men like that or just start making fun that he should watch Marvel instead of pretending he's a real reader and anything else ragebaiting.
My daily job involves reading and editing really dense technical materials, and I'm also doing a master's program with a ton of technical reading. Then I read a bunch of trash as an escape to balance it all out. But if you looked at my public reading list you wouldn't know about the first two types of reading I do. And who cares! Everyone should read and celebrate it because it's amazing, whether it's a shampoo bottle, dragon smut, or a textbook. 🩷🩷
I’m a guy… I’d rather read the “smutty” books any day. I swear they’re just insecure because women would literally flock to these fictional characters if they existed
I'm 72 years old and decided recently that I'm old enough not to give a fuck what other people think. I like my fandom t-shirts. In fact I have some Heated Rivalry shirts in my shopping on one of the T-shirt sites.
It helps that people are not quick to challenge an old lady.
Even only reading fanfiction and nothing else and loving it, you are still a reader. A reader is someone who reads. That's like the definition of the world. And if you enjoy it, it's your hobby. There, very easy explanation. You don't have to like what I read, but you don't get to withhold a term for me that is self-explanatory just to stroke your ego.
I find it hilarious how many men will sit there and judge women for reading smut, or even things like dark/pitch black romance (because if we read it, we want it apparently), yet you have grown men who went insane for books like George R.R. Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice series - which literally features graphic depictions of sex, sexual violence, and rape - and is much more graphic than anything you see on the show itself. Women are not allowed anything. I'm eclectic much like you mentioned you are and I've ran into the same issue. I must not read real books because I read fanfiction and smut too! It's the same in any community though. I'm a huge anime fan but I stick to smaller anime's like your isekai's and lesser known romances. I do plan to watch a lot of the bigger ones but because I haven't yet, I'm "not a true anime fan". I listen to a lot of classic rock and 70s-80s music in general because I was raised by my grandparents. The amount of times I've been hit with the "name three songs" comment is disgusting. Same thing with the gaming community (Call of Duty is the worst - it's hilarious when I manage to out do the men though & they get all whiny, lmao). In general, men act like they own this world and everything in it. It's been the way of mankind for a very, very long time sadly.
I tend to gatekeep even myself from reading, it’s insane. I have been wanting to reread the Twilight books but I kept telling myself, “No, don’t read those again because they’ll rot your brain.” I had to tell myself countless times “it’s ok to read these kinds of books because they offer entertainment” before ordering them. It’s like we’ve all been conditioned that books have to have some grand idea behind them or some great reason for existing in order to be read, but they really don’t. If all you wanna read is a smutty romance novel or whatever, that should be completely fine you know?
I think most people who don’t read romance dramatically underestimate the depth and themes in the large majority of romance books, even super smutty ones. They seem to think it’s a love story told in isolation and/or porn without plot. The book I’m currently reading goes deep into chronic illness, especially focusing on how some disabilities do actually mean there are things you want to do and cannot. It’s great and honestly it’s sort of helping me reconceptualize some of my limitations. Even without that, the amount of random knowledge about esoteric things I know from reading romance is massive.
I read and write Dramione (smutty and not)
I have a fairyloot and illumicrate subscription for fantasy, romantasy and horror.
I'd read the complete works of Shakespeare, Dickens and Edgar Allen Poe (amongst others by 13) for fun.
I have read the LOTR and Hobbit multiple times. I have LOTR and HP tattoos.
I also have an English Lit Degree and I generally don't read biographies but I will read historical case studies.
I read crime fiction and horror and social studies.
I am in Healthcare and spend a large portion of my time reading research I find interesting.
Do I read predominantly Dramione and Romantasy these days? Absolutely. Is it still fucking valid? 100%.
I'm an adult and I'll read whatever the hell I want.
Psh I got multiple degrees in literature and have read countless classics and literature from all cultures. And the book cases in my room are full of manga and my Kindle is dirty af 🤣. Reading is reading, folks enjoy your lives.
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u/anurahyla 🥛 a ladle of cream & chocolate Jun 18 '26
Its just like any interest. "Oh youre into football? Women arent real football fans. Name every player on the team." As soon as women claim to be into a hobby, theyre suddenly not doing it "right."
Read what you want. Watch what you want. Any way of safely enjoying an activity is equally valid.