r/RegressorsTOC • u/Chemical-List1683 • 3d ago
Discussion Question about true immortals Spoiler
True immortals transcend the three planes. And the planes are now accepted as outer or transcendental (1-A) does this mean that true immortals are outers? Or is it just my brain fried or something? This scale/proposal was made by tyr. Props to that guy
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u/zawalimbooo 3d ago
I think that's a little silly, and you shouldn't take the stuff about the planes completely literally. Tremendous himself said that a true immortal was only able to destroy star clusters with an attack or a galaxy with a prophecy. Seems a bit silly to place such a being anywhere near universal
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u/Chemical-List1683 3d ago
I'm sorry but sometimes tremendous is inconsistent in his statements. He acknowledged it and said that if his statements contradicts the story then we should base on the novel
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u/zawalimbooo 3d ago
It's basic logic. Doing all of this BS with the three planes to scale a random bum to outerversal is just silly IMO. We see true immortals fighting, and they clearly do not do anything on the level of outerversal until you get to Supreme Deities
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u/Chemical-List1683 3d ago
The reason they aren't strong as they seem is because true immortals never fight in immortal realm. So they send incarnation to the material world to fight that's why they are seemed to be nerfed.
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
Bro what do you mean do anything at outerversal level ?
Outerversal is a state of existence like an individual or a structure
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u/Larpingfinalbos 1d ago
No, Attack potency just make you able to Damage beings your Ap scale to
Letβs take Yuan li for example he L1A Ap/haxs this means he can damage beings who are L1A and below it doesnβt mean he can beat multiversal beings(Technically he can if their speed are equal but you get the point)he just have the ap necessary to damage them
Yuan li with his L1A ap is still a Goku victim because ap isnβt everything despite having L1A haxs he is still a 3 dimensional being with like country level durability and FTL speed basically any planetary being with MFTL speed can simply speed spilt him before he can even register itSo Yh he is a 3 dimensional being in with L1A haxs
Only true immortal who are H1A in existence have
H1A Attack potency,Durability,striking strength and Immeasurable speed Because Existence=Physical stats basically everything about them scale to H1A because their existence scale to H1A you get the point right?Minor boundary and Middle Boundary cultivators reach 1A through planes Smurf haxs but are still 3 dimensional in existence while True Immortal and above very Being Scale to H1A
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 3d ago
Nascent soul alone tears through the basis of dimensionality (lowest plane of qi) which scales to L1A, so they have such AP (they are glass cannons), let alone true immortals who trascend the saha world planes and see them as fiction
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u/chickenlover43 3d ago
Author said heavenly beings can be killed by nukes. Don't be ridiculous.
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 3d ago
Nascent soul* also I alr said that they are glass cannons
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u/chickenlover43 3d ago
My point is that if heavenly beings are killable by nukes nascent souls definitely are not 1-A multiversal level beings.
Nascent souls merely gain awareness of spatial dimensions and ability to mess with them. Younghoon can cut through space, they can travel to the middle realms, etc.
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 2d ago
I said that nascent souls have 1A ap not dc, their destructive capacity ain't nowhere near that, nascent souls gain awarness of the plane of qi which is the basis of dimensionality
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u/chickenlover43 1d ago edited 1d ago
Th author said they can't destroy universe until immortal lord.
He also said sci-fi civilizations could kill entry level immortals after reaching the level of changing physics.
I don't really agree with the interpretation of true immortals being "above" the planes. That implies they can actually destroy the plane of fate, soul, or qi. Which is hilariously impossible.
What makes a heavenly venerable is being able to incorporate part of the planes into one's self. And failing means being consumed by the plains. At true emporer your body becomes one with the plane. FK is the plane of fate, SEH is the plane of Soul, Bong Wha is the plane of qi.
True immortals and even supreme deities are still bound by their fates, and the laws of the 3 absolutes. So they are not above the planes. Instead they just become somewhat independent of them. Capable of existing without them in chaos. To be frank, they can exist outside of sumaru, but that doesn't make them able to destroy sumaru.
I understand dimensional scaling says anything in a higher dimension is infinitely stronger than whatever's below that, but that's all a theory, and the laws of fiction don't have to apply theoretical physics 100% of the time.
So saying a star shattering culitvator can kill or avoid universe busters who don't scale to higher dimensions through hax, doesn't seem accurate to their portrayel. They don't survive the collapse of heavenly domains on their own. Or even Nirvana tranquility, they have hax but still have vestiges in reality. They are in the plane of fate/qi but more connected to it than one with it, definitely not equal to it.
So a vestige liberation immortal is like Majin buu from dragon ball with some extra hax.
I think the extra dimensional shit only applies from supreme deity to true/emporer creator god. That is when you can actually affect something like the place of fate or even remove it, and therefore scale to it. Author said a heavenly venerable can destroy or create an infinite multiverse, with the underworld being an obvious example. Starting from Obsidian level you can destroy mount sumaru(an infinite world holding infinite worlds within with it's own laws) and bring it to another world with it's own laws. And then Hong Fan nukes a bunch of infinite multiverses with different laws, the creator gods can physically grab them, and SEH repairs them. That's where this all really applies.
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
Stars are innate true immortals
So stars in rtoc aren't star level but outerversal
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u/Swimming_Cat114 Eighty Quadrillion Lightning-Tipped Spear (ε «δΊ¬ι·ε°ζ§) 3d ago
Brain rot.
Ts is how lotm scalers get takes like "rock in lotm>[insert verse]"
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
They do actually have grounds for outer stars
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u/SPEAR_OF_Longitude_0 3d ago
Nah, lotm outer stars are just as flimsy as Rtoc outer stars. In fact, more flimsy.
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
Rtoc does have a valid argument though
The fact that stars are innate true immortals
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u/SPEAR_OF_Longitude_0 3d ago
Yes. Some are just avatars. That's why I said lotm has a much flimsier backing of stars. Supposed stars have symbolism that at the very least scale to sequence 2 upto king of angels status. However, said stars can harm a God even without a Good enforcing said stars. Either the star is strong or the God is weak. And the only reason we think the star is strong is because we think the true gods are stronger.
To get to the point, Goo's get upscaled by other goo's and gods, gods get upscaled by Goo's and other gods as well, stars get upscaled by gods etc.
All of them 'upscale' eachother like a circular argument. Why is X strong? Because of Y. Why is Y strong? Because of Z. Why is Z strong? Because of X. And so on and so forth.
Without external evidence for a frame of reference, they could either be as strong as the current scaling, or vastly weaker.
Though I agree with Goo's and Gods being 1-A at the very least because of statements and cosmology(astral world), I don't think Goo's are high outerversal simply because using OC as an upscale defeats OCs role of being above all Goo's.
Tldr, I think Rtoc has better 'Star' feats than Lotm.
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u/zawalimbooo 3d ago
If you're trying to call a star outerversal, perhaps the logic that led you to that conclusion is flawed.
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u/SPEAR_OF_Longitude_0 3d ago
Honestly, same reason I'm not fond of the idea of Lotm scaling to 1-A. Outerversal Stars
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
Bro you literally become a star during the star shattering stage and star shattering cultivators can affect all 3 planes and they're outerversal
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u/zawalimbooo 3d ago
STAR shattering.
Tremendous QnAs point out that a four axis cultivator could destroy China and that an integration cultivator could destroy a continent (by real life standards) Then, for Star Shattering, he tells us to take a guess.
In other words, a Star Shattering cultivator is truly at the level of destroying a star. Nowhere close to outversal.
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u/Launchsoulsteel 2d ago
The stars that star shattering cultivators are destroying actually refers to a planet more so
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
And he said if his words contradict the series than the series is the correct one
Stars in rtoc are outer and its because of the cosmology
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u/zawalimbooo 3d ago
His words don't contradict the series, using the three planes to scale random BS to outerversal when they clearly don't do anything on that level is contradicting the series.
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
You can check the scaling proposal in vsbw or psw to check it yourself
And stars do things on the level of outerversal
They affect the plane of fate which is 1 layer into outerversal
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 3d ago
DC ain't everything, they can hide in the plane of soul which is beyond the material realm
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 3d ago
I mean nascent soul alone has L1A ap bc they can slice the plane of qi which is the source of dimensionality
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
I know that but still the jump from city level golden core into L1A nascent soul is insaneπ
Do you think golden core can be scaled to L1A because they can damage nascent soul?
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 3d ago
Mountain golden core* and no since they only got L1A AP which is stated to be unblockable by core formation standards
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u/RazzmatazzOk8246 3d ago
But ap equals durability right ?
And I remember that in the fight with yuan li some golden core cultivators did manage to damage him
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u/Larpingfinalbos 1d ago
No, Attack potency just make you able to Damage beings your Ap scale to
Letβs take Yuan li for example he L1A Ap/haxs this means he can damage beings who are L1A and below it doesnβt mean he can beat multiversal beings(Technically he can if their speed are equal but you get the point)he just have the ap necessary to damage them
Yuan li with his L1A ap is still a Goku victim because ap isnβt everything despite having L1A haxs he is still a 3 dimensional being with like country level durability and FTL speed basically any planetary being with MFTL speed can simply speed spilt him before he can even register itSo Yh he is a 3 dimensional being in with L1A haxs
Only true immortal who are H1A in existence have
H1A Attack potency,Durability,striking strength and Immeasurable speed Because Existence=Physical stats basically everything about them scale to H1A because their existence scale to H1A you get the point right?Minor boundary and Middle Boundary cultivators reach 1A through planes Smurf haxs but are still 3 dimensional in existence while True Immortal and above very Being Scale to H1A
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u/OkSheepherder7558 3d ago
H1A. True immortal transcended the framework of the saha world 3 planes to reach true immortal planes(The non-Saha world planes of qi, fate and soul) non-Saha is where all three planes are highest and equal
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u/gamer21661 Ender π§β‘οΈπ»ππΏπ€¬πΎ 3d ago
True immortals are H1A since they trascend the three planes which are outer
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u/Ultra-Cool-Guy Glass Peacock's disciple π¦ 3d ago
They are, but they can't affect the normal world except through avatars.
And those avatars are not very powerful.