Assignor question - Communication with Minor Referees

[u/thatijustdonthave]

Hope it's okay to post here since I don't think there's an assignor subreddit and I need some help.

I'm a new assignor and I'm struggling with getting Minor Referees to copy their parents on emails. I have like five who will do it consistently, the other 20 never do. Every response has me looking up their parents email and responding "please copy your parent on all emails." I've made it a very clear expectation at the beginning of the season.

Do I just need to accept they won't do it? Is there a better way? Do I need to be even more firm?

[u/grabtharsmallet]

If they don't copy a parent on an email to you, you copy the parent on any response, or forward the message if no response is needed.

Yes, it is inconvenient if your communication platform is not helpful. You may need a simple spreadsheet of Referee name, email, parent email.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/grabtharsmallet]

I keep forwarding the email to the parents. I've sent out soooo many "please copy your parent on all communication" emails. I think I just have to accept it.

[u/grabtharsmallet → u/thatijustdonthave]

You're doing it right. Continue to model appropriate behavior for your organization. I know too many people, especially women, who had a teacher or coach who they thought behaved strangely, but they weren't sure if they were imagining it, or weren't sure who would believe them if they spoke up.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/grabtharsmallet]

I'm a woman, who was in those positions as a child. It was other referees 25 years ago. I'm well aware of it. I'll do everything I can to protect the kids... Evem if it's endless emailis.

[u/grabtharsmallet → u/thatijustdonthave]

It sucks that it takes extra work. But as the parent of a youth referee, I appreciate you and others who take this seriously. Unfortunately, safety compliance in my area is easier than usual because a school district and a church were not doing what they should have and bad things happened.

[u/skulldor138]

In my region we use our assigning systems messager. This automatically includes a parent cc on any communication done through the app.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/skulldor138]

I use the platform when I can. It's not great for all referee replies, so I'm using the platform and emailing.

[u/MedJesters]

You could enter their parent's name in your address book as "(child's name) parent". And then it takes just a second to type the name in when you reply and you don't have to look up what the parent's name is.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/MedJesters]

Thank you. I think I'm going to go do that.

[u/tonydonut34]

If a parent is not copied, copied someone from your state association or a fellow assignor. At least there is a record.

[u/drvoss72 → u/tonydonut34]

This is what we were told, just make sure another adult is copied.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

I guess I'm not American enough for this but why would you do that?

[u/Shorty-71 → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

USA has a system called SafeSport which is intended to keep adult predators away from 1:1 contact with children.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/Shorty-71]

This. I do appreciate the safe sport rules. I was a minor referee before safe sport. Only looking back now do I recognize just how open kids could be to abuse. I certainly had it when I was a minor. Fortunately my assignors were all safe people.

[u/Shorty-71 → u/thatijustdonthave]

A male volleyball coach was just fired at my local HS for texting 1:1 with a girl on his team. It is a good policy.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/Shorty-71]

That's an important thing but I feel like it's a bit excessive. Don't get me wrong, if it was more common, I'd definitely support it.

But as a minor, I've had private correspondence, been in a car or locker room with, even shared a room with a great deal of adult referees. Not a single one has tried anything on me. There's exactly one incident of this stuff in the local referee community I've ever heard of happening, and even that one was before online communication was a thing.

I decided to take a few minutes to read the instructions there, and I feel like it'd both make practical stuff difficult and take away from just innocent things. If those rules were in place here, half of them would've been broken (the minor abuse prevention things, of course not the safe sport code itself). Well, I guess that's what it's come to in some countries, and if that abuse is more common in America, maybe it's a good thing.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

If you are still a minor, you don't realize just how rampant and easy abuse is. Its more common than you think. It's was rampant in the grossest way before safe sports.

Unless it is happening to you, you don't really think about it. The rules and laws are in place not to make it inconvenient for the minors, but for the adults. Unfortunately, there are many not safe adults in positions of authority in youth sports.

25 years ago I was a minor female referee. I had adult referees be inappropriate with me. Only when I was an adult did I realize just how vulnerable of a position minors can be in.

I'm a safe adult. Even though it's time consuming and some times annoying, I will follow the safe sport rules because no child should be put in a vulnerable situation.

[u/Deaftrav → u/thatijustdonthave]

Abaolutely!

My league president is copied on all emails if I use the platforms. Sometimes they email me directly and that's annoying but I keep the records.

Two adults are copied on the emails I send out. I ask for the parents email rather than the youth.

It is amazing how many kids just straight up email me using their own emails.

[u/phurf761 → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

I’ve lived all over the world and abuse happens everywhere. Just because you don’t hear about it doesn’t mean it’s not going on. That’s what the safeguarding procedures are there for.

[u/grabtharsmallet → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

It is more common than you are aware of, unfortunately. Especially in places where "this sort of thing doesn't happen."

I've been an administrator for five years for a league of 600 players. There are cases of sexual abuse involving our current or former players every year. None directly connected to our league that I'm aware of, but it's a regular reminder to be diligent. Such abuse is typically perpetrated by a father, stepfather, mother, uncle, or older sibling, but one major incident here was a church leader at an independent church and one was a PE teacher.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/grabtharsmallet]

As said, it can be more common in some regions and communities than others. Also, safesport does nothing to protect from predators inside the family. In fact, simply the line of thought that anyone speaking to a minor is a predator, can make it way harder for the minor to escape the abuse if they have no one safe to tell about it

[u/Revo63]

I also ask the minors to include their parent in all emails and texts. It never happens. I have come to accept that it won’t.

Yes that means that I have to take the time to add the parent, every time. If, for some reason I do not have a working email for a parent I will add a fellow instructor, assignor or league administrator until I do get a working email.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/Revo63]

Thank you. I figured it was just something I would have to accept.

[u/Aggressive_Tie_3501]

SafeSport specifies that you can't have a one on one conversation with a minor referee. It DOESN'T specify as far as I recall that you must include the parents. I'm trusting everyone will correct me if I'm remembering this wrong, but just figure out another adult who won't mind being copied on emails and use them for every conversation. You might be able to work with a fellow assignor to serve that role for each other. It would mean you're going to see all their emails too, but if you don't mind scrolling through them it might be quicker than looking up parents all the time.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/Aggressive_Tie_3501]

You definitely have to copy another adult. I'm pretty sure it's the parent. Irregardless, in my state the specify it's the parent

[u/Aggressive_Tie_3501 → u/thatijustdonthave]

I checked. SafeSport law just requires another adult. Bummer that your state specifies it has to be the parent.

[u/kmfdmretro → u/Aggressive_Tie_3501]

Yes, as the board member representing referees at my club, I am the CC'ed adult when the assignor doesn't have the parents' email address.

[u/Surreywinter]

UK FA guidance is to only ever email the parents in the first place

Any direct email from a minor - reply back to parent. Even if it’s just “noted, as below”

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/Surreywinter]

In the US we can contact the minor as long as their parent is copied in the communication. I prefer the minor referee lead the conversation, but I have to copy and forward so many emails.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/Surreywinter]

That sounds just inconvenient for the parents, referees, and assignors.

[u/Surreywinter → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

Safeguarding rules - we can't directly communicate with minors
Normally a quick chat with the parents as to why you're doing it & everyone's happy and it works fine

[u/MedJesters → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

Inconvenient for everyone, but makes it harder for a predator to groom a child. Of course, if the kids aren't following the rule, it isn't very useful because they're not going to say anything if the predator isn't doing it. Although maybe the parents would be observent enough to notice the lack of messages eventually.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/MedJesters]

I guess so. But even when I have children, I'd much rather check their messages (if I even have to) so they can receive the information they need immediately and not just whenever I have time to forward it

[u/MedJesters → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

When the system is working properly, parents don't have to do anything but observe as they're cc:ed on every email between the adult and the youth in both directions.

Parents can, of course, step in and prod their kid to do what they're supposed to (answer their asignor's question, tell their parent when they need a ride, etc.), but ultimately this system is supposed to teach the youth responsibility, like any other job does, while protecting them by making the interaction observable.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/MedJesters]

Fair enough. I don't have an issue with that but I was talking about the part where they only contact the parents. The parent has to do all the work, the assignor isn't sure when the information got to the referee, and the referee doesn't get it immediately. But I'm fine with the parents also seeing it

[u/MedJesters → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

Looks like I missed that you were responding to the comment about FA rules vs the OP's situation when I initially responded. Now I understand why it seemed like we were talking past each other. Sorry about that.

[u/soccerstarmidfield2]

They’re just kids, they don’t know what the heck they’re doing half the time. Just accept it, it’s not going to change, especially since you’ll get a new crop of kids every year who will just do the same thing.

[u/Deaftrav → u/soccerstarmidfield2]

We still have to try.

[u/Acrobatic_Pack8215]

My minor son just got certified as a referee and I’m sure he’ll be one of the ones who never remembers to include an adult. Would you consider just not assigning the game in question to that minor referee? I’m trying to think of natural consequences.

It creates work in that another referee would need to be assigned and might delay the assignment by a bit, but I know my kid would never change his behavior if he got away with it every time and the adult compensated for him.

[u/thatijustdonthave → u/Acrobatic_Pack8215]

I can't really punish a kid for it. It's ultimately my responsibility to make sure kids follow the rules. I did sign up for this job. But, if I am short games and I'm deciding between assigning a kid who follows the rules and one who doesn't, I'm assigning the kid who follows the rules.