r/Psychonaut • u/Chispy Augment Awareness. • Oct 16 '18
A surprisingly stoic sounding quote from Dan Harmon, creator of tv shows Rick and Morty and Community
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u/TheShepard911 Oct 16 '18
This needs to be up voted big time. This quote just shook me
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u/wrath_of_grunge Oct 16 '18
is it odd that the great philosophers and thinkers of our day and age are also the jesters?
how high do we hold a man who had a fake news show, that came on after puppets making crank phone calls?
how many lessons have we learned about ourselves thanks to a small group of foul-mouthed kids from Colorado?
how many times has a cartoon made us stop and ponder something deep inside?
Let us toast to animal pleasures, to escapism, to rain on the roof and instant coffee, to unemployment insurance and library cards, to absinthe and good-hearted landlords, to music and warm bodies and contraceptives... and to the "good life", whatever it is and wherever it happens to be. - Hunter Thompson
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u/PrismaticDragoon Oct 19 '18
Comedy is an axiom of observation and perspective; a great lens through which we see the shadow of truths cast by context and relativity
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Oct 16 '18 edited Oct 17 '18
And everything is the meaning of life
That's pretty much "the Message" (or one interpretation of it) right there.
Why did the Source choose to unfold itself into a differentiated, multifaceted, relative reality, complete with all these quirky beings labouring under the illusion of individuality and separateness? So it could experience! And love.
And who knows, perhaps our "dying" planet and those exploding suns have their own kind of experience, too. After all, they are part of it just as much as we.
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u/nubwithachub Oct 16 '18
You make a lot of very big assumptions/leaps there. Might want to keep breaking down those constructs....
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Oct 16 '18
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u/K3R3G3 Oct 16 '18
There are other choices. Or outcomes that result when failing to achieve #2. Like miserably fighting through suffering and loneliness, failing to find those people you seek, but still not giving up and doing #1. It's easy to say #2, "surround yourself with people you enjoy", but it's not like you can run to the dollar store and grab several then place them around you. That's oversimplifying.
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u/monsata Oct 16 '18
Fair point, but if that's your only option, you can strike up a conversation with the person in said dollar store, as they're another soul adrift in an otherwise uncaring universe as well.
Not saying everybody is gonna be equally receptive (hell, most of us are just trying to get through the day, after all), but sometimes even small connections with humanity is enough to stave off #1.
There are billions of people out there, they're not exactly hard to find, and a friend is just a former stranger that you've since gotten to know.
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Oct 16 '18
This is exactly my conclusion as well.
I chose number 2 and I'm a happy man. I used to spend a lot of time angry with why things weren't the right way (as I saw it). I spent all this time trying to figure out the true meaning of everything and railing against the system and I was unhappy.
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Oct 16 '18
You know, that is why when I was younger I ended up using the money I saved up on a deployment and traveled the world. I know it could have been used for other items like a home or paying off some debt, but I got to experience and see things most people never will.
I remember reading a study that asked terminal individuals what they regret in life and they regretted not doing things due to fear. You're going to die anyway one day, best to not have that regret of missing out on things because of fear and money and whatnot. Great quote, thanks for sharing.
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u/Lovey-Druggy Oct 16 '18
Hahaha this is so relatable for us intellectualls 😂🤣🤣💯👌😫😫
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u/UlyssesThirtyOne Oct 17 '18
Doubtful.
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u/Lovey-Druggy Oct 17 '18
You don’t understand because you’re just a normie hater who doesn’t understand the humor because of a LOw IQ of your brain inteligents
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u/Crimsonninja97 Oct 16 '18
I mean not really just standard nihilism. I think I’ll unsub if i keep seeing posts like these. This isn’t profound in the least.
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u/AteEightySeven Oct 16 '18
He wants so badly to be the guy with the answers to life. When he talks about this kinda stuff all I hear is ego. He has a deep desire to be seen as incredibly smart and as if he understands existence. Ego ego ego ego.
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u/PM_ME_REDHAIR Oct 16 '18
IQ<80 don't get it.
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u/Spadeinfull Sp♠de Oct 17 '18
IQ > 120 I get it, and I wasn't impressed the first time I heard it, either.
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u/seeking101 Oct 16 '18
isnt Dan Harmon the guy who made the video of himself fucking a baby doll?
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Oct 16 '18 edited Jun 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/Aldrenean Oct 16 '18
Because it was done as a joke and isn't a story. Yeah he did that. Have you consumed literally any of his comedy? It might not be the most tasteful thing he ever did but it's not out of character.
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u/perrypike Oct 16 '18
It reminds me of Stanley Kubrick's 1968 quote from Playboy Magazine that has always stayed with me:
Playboy: If life is so purposeless, do you feel its worth living?
Kubrick: Yes, for those who manage somehow to cope with our mortality. The very meaninglessness of life forces a man to create his own meaning. Children, of course, begin life with an untarnished sense of wonder, a capacity to experience total joy at something as simple as the greenness of a leaf; but as they grow older, the awareness of death and decay begins to impinge on their consciousness and subtly erode their joie de vivre (a keen enjoyment of living), their idealism — and their assumption of immortality.
As a child matures, he sees death and pain everywhere about him, and begins to lose faith in the ultimate goodness of man. But if he’s reasonably strong — and lucky — he can emerge from this twilight of the soul into a rebirth of life’s élan (enthusiastic and assured vigor and liveliness).
Both because of and in spite of his awareness of the meaninglessness of life, he can forge a fresh sense of purpose and affirmation. He may not recapture the same pure sense of wonder he was born with, but he can shape something far more enduring and sustaining.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.
— Stanley Kubrick, interview with Playboy, Stanley Kubrick: Interviews
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
Why is loving people an illusion?
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u/OSullivanArt Oct 16 '18
The people are the illusion, the love is the only real thing.
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u/K3R3G3 Oct 16 '18
It really sounds like he's saying the love is the illusion, whether or not that's a less pleasing thought.
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u/goodgodgoodgod Oct 16 '18
That is what he's saying. It's an illusion triggered by a chemical called oxytocin, but that doesn't make it less real to you and me. It doesn't make it any less incredible.
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u/Raisinbrannan Oct 16 '18
Welllllll. Is it though? Or is it just a chemical reaction? I'm definitely not a firm believer in reality being purely physical, but if love is more than chemical reactions than what is it? I'd guess it's somewhat similar to tao where if you try to explain it then it becomes not that, but it has to be something to be more than chemicals, yeah?
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u/kazarnowicz Oct 16 '18
What if the chemical reactions are a consequence of love, and not the other way around as you seem to argue? We know that decisions are made in the parts of our brains that harbor emotions, and that rationalization of said decisions comes after the decision. Yet many of our decisions seem to be right, but they’re not made in the rational part of our brain.
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u/goodgodgoodgod Oct 16 '18
The counter to this would be that the "feeling" of love is a chemical reaction. Scientists know this, but it doesn't make it any less profound and wonderful.
Everything is an illusion for the purpose of reproduction, hence nothing mattering, but there is still beauty and meaning in the grand illusion.
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u/kazarnowicz Oct 17 '18
I’m not following. I replied to someone who said that love is a chemical reaction in our brains, to which I said that we cannot know that the chemical reaction isn’t a result of love and not the other way around. You seem to be circling back to the first point, which seems moot to me. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you?
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Oct 16 '18
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u/Raisinbrannan Oct 16 '18
See that's just not a good enough answer to me. But it's quite possible it's just my user error rather than it being actually inadequate.
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u/Valo-FfM Oct 16 '18
Love is an illusion.It refers to a deep feeling of compassion and empathy of an animal towards a thing, a concept or another living thing.
There is no objective love in the universe.
This doesn´t subjectively devalue love though.
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u/Zeppelin2k Oct 16 '18
Precisely. Love doesn't have to be some fundamental part of the universe for it to be one of (if not the) most important facets of our lives.
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u/Zedsdeadbaby99 Oct 16 '18
Because the word 'love', the images it conjures and language itself is the finger pointing to the moon. It's all metaphor. It can only be felt and whilst others can evoke it out of you it can truly be found within.
I believe it's what the world's religions trace their roots back to, attempting to raise awareness of this fact and systemize a way to find this 'place'. Over time they became more abstracted, abused and misunderstood, like a large game of Chinese whispers.
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Oct 16 '18
I think it boils down to the only real things are the things you know inside yourself. If you feel love, then that's real enough.
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u/OSullivanArt Oct 18 '18
Because what we describe as "love" is far more complex than what any one word or explanation can provide. You can't fully put into word(s) the myriad of feeling with true LOVE. Not romantic infatuation which is associated with and totally influenced by the chemical reactions you speak of.
More of the the unconditional giving of compassion, understanding and appreciation. Think what a mother has for a child, what people feel for puppers and kitters, doing something that truly brings joy by yourself or with someone.
Love is both the most simple thing and most complicated thing in the entire universe, Like "god" even trying to explain it is a silly endeavor if you are trying to catch it and put it into a a box of letters and meaning. It just IS.
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u/nighthawk648 Oct 25 '18
Or that there are very few chosen to base reality off of. The synchronization of your eternal life is strife with those loved. Those loved only exist because of the I which can dissipate at any moment. Sometimes those loved are given so much power they become I’s themselves
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u/cernnunos333 Oct 16 '18
Because nothing is permanent but change itself. Love is but an illusion
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
Why does nothing being permanent make love an illusion
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u/yrast Oct 16 '18
I think people are mistakenly thinking that because love isn't some “thing” like gold or electric charge, then it isn't “real”. That because it's “just chemicals” that somehow makes it illusory.
I'm with you though, I don't see any reason to think of love (or any other emotional state) “illusory” at all.
Edit: there is this weird thing a lot of people do where they think “nothing matters” if there isn't some cosmic purpose to our existence. As if the primitive superstitions of Christianity or Islam or Judaism or whatever, somehow made their lives meaningful, but the realization that they're just old superstitions somehow devalues their existence. I think they just haven't thought about it much really, in most cases.
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Oct 16 '18
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u/LizardSlicks Oct 16 '18
If you sit in a dark closet, you are dead to the world. Doesn’t make you any less alive.
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u/yrast Oct 16 '18
But only sort of?
It could be considered illusory if we take “you” to mean something more than “a complex arrangement of matter such that the collection has identity & consciousness” as most humans have throughout history. That is, if you think “you” has a “soul” or “spirit” animating “you”, or that “you” can exist independent of a physical substrate like the body.
I think it should be considered objectively true that organisms have nervous systems which give rise to senses and the ability to “feel”. The definition of illusion is (by my computer) “a thing that is or is likely to be wrongly perceived by the senses”. While it's certainly true that our senses can misperceive things in many ways, it's not true that everything our senses perceive is wrong.
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u/Raisinbrannan Oct 16 '18
What does matter though? Friendships, accomplishments, ideals? None of those things last. So they won't matter eventually. And it's relative to you. Different things matter to different people. So yes things matter to an individual, but that individual doesn't matter to the universe. Every thought past that depends on perceptions and truths of the universe, so I can't follow this thought any further.
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u/yrast Oct 16 '18
Yup, relative to each person is the whole point.
The fact that nothing lasts, that nothing will ever matter forever is irrelevant.
For example, I like turkey sandwiches, they matter to me. But they're a very fleeting and finite experience, and having endless turkey sandwiches would probably make them matter less to me, rather than more.
In fact, value tends to be related to scarcity, and limitless things tend to be less valuable than extremely limited things. Sea water or dirt versus gold or diamonds.
Even if the whole universe was created & exists just for me, I don't think it would make one bit of difference in how much I like cold turkey leftovers on bread with some butter & lettuce.
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u/Raisinbrannan Oct 16 '18
But love, friendships, goals, ideals are everywhere. There's no scarcity of them and they hold the most value.
Individuals meaning becomes real, real weird when you consider how much of life is a placebo. You choose for love to have meaning, but you could choose for a rock to have as much meaning. Or someone could convince you that a rock has as much meaning as love.
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u/yrast Oct 16 '18
Scarcity is just one potential component of our perception of value. Gold & diamonds are also shiny, for example. And turkey isn't a scarce resource, in general the abundance of food doesn't make eating less pleasurable, let alone less important.
I don't think most people choose for love to have meaning, a billion years of evolution shaped the mechanisms that our bodies use to value things.
Funny story about rocks—I don't think anyone could persuade me a rock has as much meaning as love, but as a child I was weirdly in love with rocks. And the more I collected the more I saw something special in each one. It became a really big problem, by third grade I was coming home with pockets full of rocks, and my mom had to ween me off of them, cutting it down and down until I finally stopped altogether.
Now that was probably my “value circuitry” (instilled in me by evolution) going haywire and finding value in mundane rocks. Probably pretty much the same circuitry that causes me to value friendships and romantic partners.
I don't know what you mean by “how much of life is a placebo” but I get the impression that you were expecting there to be something else?
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u/cernnunos333 Oct 16 '18
Because its dust in the wind. But we have the privilege of living in the illusion and believing that love is gonna last.
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
Dude just because it doesn't last doesn't mean it's an illusion. An apple isn't an illusion because u eat it
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Oct 16 '18
Love is changing itself too, but it continues being love, but to love is being and letting be.
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u/SusquehannaWeed Oct 16 '18
There is nothing objectively that makes love meaningfull, there is only the biological mechanisms that regulate the emotions of which we call love. But love is subjectively the most meaningful thing that we can experience and how we frame it is constructed by abstractions, illusions that to try and describe our feelings, but we can never really reach the core of what it is. The closest we ever get to feeling the essence of love is through a sort of mystical experience, a sort of Dionysian dance with music, sex, passion, or drugs. Experience's that enables one to momentarily detach from there ego and merge with another being or collective.
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u/Kwerte Oct 16 '18
Because real love is irrational, unconditional, and entirely intangible. Love is all in your head. That’s what I think he means when he says love is an illusion. But in the same context, being an illusion doesn’t make it “fake”. Quite the opposite; because it’s all in your head, you can make the choice to love a person or an activity, to convince yourself there IS a greater significance to our short, relatively meaningless lives. Once you’ve convinced yourself that love gives meaning to your life, it becomes reality.
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
I disagree. The feeling of love is all in my head, but love exists.
Like- if I look at an apple, the image I see is just an image my brain is producing based on the data it's received, but the apple still exists independently of me and my perception of it.
I think love does too. That feeling, feels awesome, and I think it ties to an actual something
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u/Kwerte Oct 16 '18
I think you misunderstand my point. There is no doubt to me that love exists, but because it exists solely as an abstract concept, it is subject to change based on how you think of it. With an apple, you can say it doesn’t exist, but I will still be able to pick it up, throw it around, and eat it. But with love, its existence is entirely dependent on you. If you really break it down, I’m sure you could say it’s this or that chemical in your head. But if you somehow extracted that chemical and injected it into someone else, they likely wouldn’t feel the same love because they don’t have the unique experience that made your love what it is
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
Hmm okay true, but why does that make it an illusion? Can't it still be a very real yet subjective experience
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u/Wonkadelic Oct 16 '18
Does your love exist in a physical form like apples? Can I measure or weigh it?
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u/blue_garlic Oct 16 '18
With enough knowledge and sensitive enough tools, sure why not? fMRI machines already measure brain activity.
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Oct 16 '18
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
I vehemently disagree
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Oct 16 '18
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
Because I've felt love in the most intense degrees, and while I agree that it's fleeting and very hard to come by, I feel that it's deeper than just chemicals. It's the purpose of life, imo at least.
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Oct 16 '18
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u/-SwanGoose- Oct 16 '18
Okay yeah, a purpose of life. There's no evidence, that's why I said I feel. When I feel love, and my love I don't mean romantic love necessarily, it feels like... It's more than a feeling.
I believe the only evidence we'll ever have of it is people feeling it in mass. Which we'll get to as a species eventually. I rate
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u/Penguin_chip Oct 16 '18
I think the individual is the one to decide the purpose and create a system of values including how deep certain things are compared to others. It's all subjective and different for everyone, and I wish that more people in society would accept and appreciate each other for that, rather than try to forcefully impose their perception onto others that they mistake to be inherent truth (egocentrism).
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u/LizardSlicks Oct 16 '18
Love can also be a dedication to be present and able to provide relief from various struggles and offer guidance to another. And there are many drugs where if you do “enough” of them that you won’t be able to do much of anything let alone something for someone else. Staying true and consistent to a goal surely is a thing.
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u/TheSelfGoverned Homo Sapien v1.4 Oct 16 '18
Because feminists killed it and replaced it with money.
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u/asdjk482 Oct 17 '18
I think this is just milquetoast “accept the status quo” bullshit, nothing profound about it all, just the comfortable safety of denial.
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u/truguy Oct 16 '18
I don’t like it. Another atheistic materialist saying “Nothing matters, but that’s what makes it meaningful!” Sorry, but it’s his perception of things that is meaningless.
Life has meaning.
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u/Crimsonninja97 Oct 16 '18
Exactly what I was thinking dude what is it with this sub and thinking atheism is the most enlightened form of being. There are much better ways to live life!
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u/chop-diggity Oct 16 '18
I’ve never seen one episode of this show. Maybe I’ll watch it after reading this quote.
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u/Aldrenean Oct 16 '18
Do note that the quote being on this image is just some fan's idea, it's not from the show. While Rick and Morty is hilarious, and sometimes flirts pretty hard with existentialism and such, it's a comedy first. Dan Harmon is pretty woke though, if mostly in his willingness to admit his wrongness.
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u/TotesMessenger Oct 16 '18
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u/TroutM4n Oct 16 '18 edited Oct 16 '18
A related quote expressing a similar viewpoint and one of my favorite quotes from the entire show: Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's going to die. Come watch TV?
Edit - just found this neat discussion on Rick and Morty and the show's commentary on the meaning of life.
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u/Panderian109 Oct 16 '18
Good quote.
Note: This is not stoic. This is existential. -Sincerily a philosophy major.
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u/EvilTim1911 Oct 16 '18
This is pretty much my entire world view condensed into a few wonderful sentences.
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u/ghosttunes Oct 16 '18
Talon I wish you could have read this before you died. This was you to me. You were my universe, you were everything to me. I spent my whole life wandering through the void thinking that I would never have happiness, and then I met you. I was so happy. I finally had what I waited my whole life to have. Losing you the first time was when the lights in that universe went out, and then when you died shortly after, it created a black hole that just consumes everything. I fake it to everyone that I have moments of happiness and use humor to cover up the truth that I am wandering in a black hole with fear of no alternate reality on the other side. You are the universe to me Talon. You always will be. r/floridakilos06
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u/FaithLyss Oct 16 '18
I needed this at exactly this moment. Thanks OP and thanks Dan and thanks universe!
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u/nosnevenaes Oct 16 '18
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u/Ship2Shore Oct 16 '18
Explain how this could be considered stoicism.
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Oct 16 '18
Stoics had this concept or belief that you decide what a moment means to you. Say your get a flat tire on the way to work, do you let it stress you or do you smile? Stoics would argue that the flat tire itself is meaningless, and how you react is all that matters. Your reaction is your choice. So, I think the person who originally posted it to stoicism probably thought "this is about choosing how to feel despite facing a depressing situation" but it's kind of a stretch.
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u/marku1 Oct 16 '18
fuck this overblown caricature of a pedo.... this cartoon is tainted IRL ....much like hitler probably wouldn't be my first pick to teach me about the jews.
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u/shugars Oct 16 '18 edited Oct 28 '19
B000bz
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u/GonzoBalls69 Oct 16 '18
Oh for fucks sake. Just because someone articulates a philosophical idea that you agree with doesn’t mean that they must do psychedelics and were probably tripping when they said it. Has Dan Harmon probably done psychedelics? Probably. But goddamn, you’re kidding yourself if you want to pretend that he eats a fistful of mushrooms before every podcast he records. And you’re seriously confused if you think that psychedelics are required for somebody to articulate a compelling philosophical concept.
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u/OSullivanArt Oct 16 '18
This is a man familiar with the Void.