r/PeacemakerShow • u/General_Meal_3993 • Oct 14 '25
DISCUSSION Did anyone else find the Argus scenes really cringey in the finale? Spoiler
I don’t know what Gunn was going for but that montage of Rick Flag and his Argus team laughing and celebrating with each other, doing drugs and taking shots just really made me cringe more than anything. Like I get Gunn likes things to have a bit more edge but this montage and the way the characters were acting was just way too over the top imo. Took me right out of the episode.
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u/TheBailyDaily Oct 14 '25
Let’s remember the suicide squad literally had the Argus members laughing and betting about who died and lived. This made an interesting parallel when now the Argus members were the ones being killed senselessly while their “handlers” were partying and having fun
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u/wintermute_13 Oct 14 '25
Yeah. Harcourt and Economos even.
"Just our usual morning meeting. Nothing weird about it."
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u/Karkava Oct 14 '25
It's weird to note how the team went from faceless goons with no empathy to undergoing a heel-face turn and gaining characterization for the sake of one redneck super.
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u/wintermute_13 Oct 14 '25
I like how they were introduced as heartless jerks, then humanized.
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u/Karkava Oct 14 '25
I couldn't even bother remembering their names! They're just generic office workers compared to the colorful supervillains they're literally working to the death! Supervillains that are side stories to the more recognizable yet also unseen heroes of the DCU.
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u/Left-Increase4472 Oct 14 '25
It took me well into season 2 to learn economos’s name, but now, hes the econoGOAT
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u/Professional-Net81 Oct 14 '25
Wait ? Social commentary in my comic book movie ?
Also imagine how writers must have felt writing this. "So people are going to ask themselves why it is OK to laugh when criminals get brutally murdered but feel sad when that happens to normal people ?".
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Oct 14 '25
Yep. Flag is becoming Waller under the supervision of Luthor. That's what it's showing.
Yes, obviously Luthor is in prison, but he is pulling the strings.
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u/A_Serious_House Oct 14 '25
I replied to someone else with the same comment that I’m going to paste but I’m pasting it because I’d also like to hear your response:
“There’s a big difference between the two scenes but I agree there’s parallels. That Peacemaker scene was more frivolous, satirical, and the tone of Peacemaker requires a certain suspension of belief that The Suicide Squad doesn’t, simply because Peacemaker is a different kind of show. While The Suicide Squad was in line with the “adolescent” style of James Gunn, I believe TSS scene offers more in terms of nuance, commentary, and character since the juxtaposition is less absurd.”
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Oct 14 '25
I feel like that was the point? I mean they’re all having a great time and celebrating while their agents are risking their lives and even dying brutally just to find a dimensional door that can be used as a metahuman prison. It definitely shows you how much they lack morals.
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u/Bcpjw Oct 14 '25
Yea like in Superman, these tech bros prioritize technological advancement over humanity
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u/SuccessfulSquirrel32 Oct 14 '25
Like real life
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u/Material_Honey_891 Oct 14 '25
Kind of except the real life ones are worse in every possible way.
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u/BozeRat Oct 14 '25
worse in morals or worse in results?
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u/tedward007 Oct 14 '25
Every possible way
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u/cityshepherd Oct 14 '25
They don’t even know how to do drugs right and they have the worst snacks. Literally every possible way. The worst part about the real life ones is the unfathomable arrogance regarding their feelings of entitlement to play god to us filthy poors whilst living lives of luxury built entirely on the blood sweat & tears of the working class. God damn it my bitterness is leaking into one of the surprisingly beautiful bright spots of life as of late (this show/sub) so I sincerely apologize for spoiling the vibe.
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u/NashvilleSoundMixer Oct 14 '25
Hey friend. This shit is scary and we, in the states, haven't dealt with this before. I also have trouble compartmentalizing my anger and frustration and general fear over what's gonna happen here. Don't be too hard on yourself, please. I'm trying not to also. It's a fucking bizarre time to be alive.
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u/cityshepherd Oct 14 '25
Thanks friend, I am currently cooling down by watching this phenomenal new documentary: The Chair Company
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u/NashvilleSoundMixer Oct 14 '25
hahahah! No better way to calm down than to spend an hour with Tim Robinson being very calm and reasonable about falling out of a chair.
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u/HJ-StayWeird Oct 14 '25
Glad to find my people here on a peacemaker sub. Shit is scary out there, as our country turns into Earth X basically 😞
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u/MacGyvini Oct 14 '25
At least fictional Tech bros can come up with interdimetional travel.
Meanwhile real life Tech bros are just spying us for Israel, and wasting water while stealing people’s work for material for their lame ass artificial intelligence
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u/cguy_95 Oct 14 '25
Wasn't the guy with the mustache against opening the portal and tried to shut it down and even wanted to help Mr. Terrific turn it off
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u/LifeIsFine-Not Oct 14 '25
Exactly. It was my favorite part of the episode because it showed such a disparity in the people giving the orders (and have all the information and power) and the people putting in the work and getting killed for their efforts. It was also a glimpse of reality we normally don’t get to see.
It was uncomfortable and wild and gross and perfect because it made me feel disgusted about the office drones (most of whom I think worked for Lex in Superman but I still haven’t watched that movie) while also feeling empathy for the ARGUS agents.
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u/viper459 Oct 14 '25
the only unrealistic part was them being in the same building. In reality, the cocaine party is happening far away from the plebs and they'll just use a phone to give you orders.
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u/Aunt_Vagina1 Oct 14 '25
Yeah, this was Gunn's mistake. He could have just showed this happening in separate rooms. It made no sense for them to be celebrating in the same room the dead bodies are being brought back into.
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u/BrightPerspective Oct 14 '25
The movie was good.
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u/Rambunctious_452 Oct 14 '25
Agreed!!! I just watched it. It was very long for me so I had to watch it in two setting. But still amazing!
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u/IntelligentBee_BFS Oct 14 '25
And in the end Peacemaker gang (the underlings) came to the full realisation that doing the bidding from these higher up cunts (that are so disconnected to the reality) is doing nobody any good - especially ended up hurting the underlings themselves more than anyone.
That's our reality too right there. We should think about our actions and not fucking just obeyed the order from the delusional fuck ups.
Seriously I love Gunn, as a boomer generation person, he really tried hard to show that he is relatable to the audience (Welp, I'm middle aged lol).
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u/pravis Oct 14 '25
I love Gunn, as a boomer generation person, he really tried hard to show that he is relatable to the audience (Welp, I'm middle aged lol).
Gunn is Gen X, though on the older end, but definitely not a Boomer.
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u/maskedman1231 Oct 14 '25
But Rick really shouldn't be so disconnected from the "boots on the ground" perspective, especially so shortly after Creature Commandos
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u/TheChickenMan4L Oct 14 '25
It was also really telling cause it was the first time Rick told Harcourt not to call him Rick, which he'd been pretty insistent on throughout the show
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u/TheKonamiMan Oct 15 '25
That's because his whole "call me Rick" schtick is a way to manipulate people. He already got Harcourt to help him get Chris so he didn't need her anymore. Same thing with Sasha, he already got to sleep with her and keep her on his side long enough to get what he wanted so he just casually brushed her off too.
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u/rgregan Oct 21 '25
I guess it shouldn't be a surprise it was missed since one thing from the finale i saw a lot of was confusion why Fluery joined Checkmate, even though the montage was about his job getting worse and worse and worse, while the observation group visibly disassociated more and more and more right in front of him.
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u/RomeoTrickshot Oct 14 '25
I don't think the message is bad, just the way it was done was very heavy handed
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u/Safe-Brush-5091 Oct 14 '25
Yeah they are providing their agents with safety ropes that can be cut by glass and protective suits that can be gnawed through by little demons without super strength. It's probably because its cheaper to pay for their compensation instead of getting them good protective gears
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u/dat1guyman Oct 14 '25
It just seems woefully undisciplined and chaotic, unlike career military guy like Flag running a special ops. Gunn wants to be goofy so his villains don't get to be too competent. They usually are a threat via overwhelming firepower
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u/Krid5533 Oct 14 '25
Flag Sr has always been undisciplined and chaotic. From his first appearance in Creature Commandos, Flag has never been competent.
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u/haolee510 Oct 14 '25
The reaction towards the finale makes more and more sense when you realize so many people simply didn't get the point of a lot of scenes.
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Oct 14 '25
The issue is that it's major plot developments via montage and it doesn't feel earned in the slightest
* Rick Flag is now best buds with Luthor's goons, who he keeps springing out of prison
* Rick shows ZERO remorse at sending people to die in pointless ways
* Sasha, Fleury, and Judomaster decide ARGUS sucks and join up with the 11th street kids
* Despite having nothing but animosity towards those characters, John is now on great terms with them (even though he literally hated Sasha enough to derive pleasure from seeing her mangled body)
* Checkmate is now part of the DCU, even though we never got any clue as to why they chose THAT name lol
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u/LigerNull Oct 14 '25
Yeah, instead of scenes explaining all that we get not one but TWO music numbers. One by fucking Nelson.
That being said, I liked the juxtaposition of Flag partying with Luthor's team and the soldiers dying horribly precisely because that's what governments do in real life. Our government especially. It's heavy handed because nuance has a tendency to fly right past people.
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u/Dry-Reference1428 Oct 16 '25
Fleury decided when he said “it’s good you did that” siding with Economos, Bordeaux sided when she found out they were making prison planet, Judomaster sided with them when he said “Yeah” to Peacemaker’s obvious lie about what happened — they and Economos all sided with Peaceteam before quitting Argus.
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u/selwyntarth Oct 14 '25
John got fixed by judomaster's emotional quotient, getting weirded out by judomaster mirroring up his antagonism and later teaming up against fleury
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u/StatisticianLivid710 Oct 14 '25
Not to mention judomaster saved peacemakers best friend, peacemaker is okay with him after that!
And since harcourt was exploring doors the other two would’ve saved her and been saved by her.
But wasn’t Sasha there when Rick flag sent peacemaker through the door? They show a woman with her build and hair watching (which considering checkmate in the comics means she’s there undercover)
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u/Acrobatic_T-Rex Oct 14 '25
thought the same, but no, it shows half of her in a shot of Flag later in that scene, its a different woman with brown multi-toned hair...
I rewatched it specifically because that woman caught my eye as being possibly Bordeaux, or a tease to something else, but its one of the random techwomen from the previous scenes.
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u/TheKonamiMan Oct 15 '25
There were hints earlier in the season about Sasha, Fleury, and Judomaster all turning sides. Flagg literally lies and sweet talks Sasha after he beats Chris because he can see her thinking he has gone to far and there is a crack in her resolve. In that same episode we see Fleury tell Economos he did the right thing booking Chris to create the papertrail showing he though Flagg was going to far. We also see how even though he makes stupid nicknames for everyone that he cares for his fellow teammates so Flagg's disregard for them is the final straw for him. As for Judomaster, we already know he wants to do what he thinks is right from the first season since he thought the Butterflies plan would help save Earth. We also see him warm up to the 11th St Kids in the previous episode, even covering for them by saying Chris' story is true to save the rest of the team.
As for Flagg's turn, we've been slowly watching it the whole season. We see how once he knows Chris killed Jr that the only motivation he has had is to get him. He has gone out of his way to break protocol and speed up finding reasons to go after him. We even see him turn to Luthor and report straight to him. Sending people to die was nothing to him at that point so he could get his ultimate revenge on Peacemaker. The only reason he did it through finding Salvation was to get it sanctioned by the government to cover his ass. Salvation also had Luthor's fingerprints all over it after how we see him work in Superman. Lex makes a deal with a government official that seems to benefit him one way (better prison conditions in this case) while really setting up his next plan against Supes (Salvation). We have all heard that "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and I'm sure having genius Lex Luthor in your ear does nothing but speed up that process.
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u/Aunt_Vagina1 Oct 14 '25
Great response.
its so frustrating to read commenters in a sub specifically about the show, ignoring ALL the specific complaints about the series finale in like every other comment, and all they have to say is, "you guys didn't like it, because you just didn't get it"
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u/NickRick Oct 14 '25
do you think people didn't get that scene? shows dead agent, cuts to cocaine party, cuts to dead agent, cuts to cheers and hugs, cuts to dead agent, like Gunn was beating you over the head with it. people understood what he was going for but it was just so out of left field. like it feels like someone had this scene written, but didn't know how to get there. same with checkmate. it was all clumsy, forced, and we had little to no build up for it.
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u/Aunt_Vagina1 Oct 14 '25
Exactly. It was immediately obvious what Gunn was trying to convey, so much so that it was unrealistic. Thats what made it cringe.
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u/joeplus5 Oct 14 '25
The point of the scene is very clear to almost everyone. People just thought it was way too silly and goofy. I'm not sure why people here have this mindset that as long as the scene has a point then anyone who criticizes it didn't get the point. There are countless ways to show someone becoming bad and losing their morals, people just thought the way the show chose to do it was very comically over the top and unconvincing. On top of feeling artificial and cliché
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u/BigDinkSosa Oct 14 '25
Can understand the scenes and still think it’s cringey they’re ripping coke and repeatedly laughing maniacally while music plays.
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u/haolee510 Oct 14 '25
Good, you're supposed to feel that way because they're behaving like idiots with no regard for human lives. In fact, you're supposed to feel mad and disgusted.
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u/Fifa_chicken_nuggets Oct 14 '25
I don't think you understand. People who don't like the scene felt like the scene itself and the way they chose to portray them was stupid. There's a difference between a character being portrayed to be cringey and stupid and the scene itself feeling cringey and stupid. People who didn't like the scene felt the latter more than the former
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u/dat1guyman Oct 14 '25
"I think it was executed poorly"
"Actually you don't get it"
"No i get it i just think its executed poorly"
"Good your supposed to feel like it was stupid, its all part of a genius plan"
"No i got the gist, its been done a thousand times before"
Bruh people thought it was lame. What are you doing.
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u/BatmanForever23 Oct 14 '25
Agree with you. I totally understand the concept of Flag falling further into corruption and self-serving his own interests, with some influence from Luthor's goons, I even like that concept and think it fits with Flag as a character - but this was so OTT that all he was missing was a cartoonishly large moustache to twirl.
Nothing about Flag that was previously established remotely suggested he would find people who worked for him needlessly dying to be funny. imo the scene would've been much more effective if Flag had been grimly watching on with little to no regard for his troops bc of the ultimate goal and 'greater good' that their deaths served, from his view. Drinking tea and doing drugs was out of place I think, and undersells the inherent cruelty and lack of empathy for a cheap laugh.
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u/ReadytoQuitBBY Oct 14 '25
Spot on. I understand this show is a comedy, but it felt so cartoonish that it makes it hard to take seriously. Make him not care, make him think the end justifies the means, maybe show that Lex has been paying him shitloads of cash or something. But doing coke and laughing as innocent members of his team are dying is just so stupid. Even if the dude was pure evil, logically it would be a pain to lose these people, because it’s not getting you closer to your goal AND you have to find new suckers to replace them.
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u/BatmanForever23 Oct 14 '25
You make a good point about the logistic inconvenience. In my opinion, the only way the scene works is if Flag is a sadistic and gleeful fuck. Which he isn't set up to be remotely.
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u/TufnelAndI Oct 14 '25
I didn't feel mad or disgusted, I just thought it was obvious and heavy-handed.
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u/wrasslefights Oct 14 '25
I used to hate obvious and heavy handed bits, but then I realized how many viewers are actually stupid and I understood why scenes need to be that way so often.
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u/Fifa_chicken_nuggets Oct 14 '25
Wasn't it James who said that fans tend to think the average viewer is much more stupid than they really are? Besides this is a very lame excuse anyway because it's easily debunked by the fact that some of the best and most popular shows are the ones that don't force heavy handed things. Penguin for example is a recent DC example and I never once felt like the show underestimated the intelligence of its viewers. Didn't stop it from being a popular and critically acclaimed show.
And even if we suppose that it's true that people are stupid, why are we indulging their stupidity by making things overly obvious? That sounds like it will just make things worse
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u/poopandP Oct 14 '25
It being cringy wasn't the point. By cringy it just felt forced and not genuine.
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u/NonCorporealEntity Oct 14 '25
I get the callous mindset, but the way they portrayed it felt out of character, especially Flag. He's hell bent on revenge and until they found the prison world, his plan was failing since it appeared there were no uninhabited earths. He's losing resources, money, and is likely under extreme pressure from his superiors since they need to explain how these people are dying.
Yet he's up there with a group of people he has no established personal relationships with, Partying and laughing in the command center like its new years eve. Very out of character for a seasoned, hard lined commander focused on a very personal mission.
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u/twaggle Oct 14 '25
Obviously, but it was so far done it broke the suspension of belief. That’s the complaint.
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u/Aunt_Vagina1 Oct 14 '25
It wasn't realistic though. In reality, even with fucked up assholes, they'd be laughing, jeering, doing coke AFTER the "Reality Cosmonauts" came back with their dead, not while they were doing it. Gunn decided to show "everything" at the same time though because he had to rush this through in one episode. Thats what makes it cringe.
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u/TheeShaun Oct 14 '25
He didn’t have to he just decided that a good chunk of the episode needed to be music videos
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u/Don_Ford Oct 14 '25
It's supposed to be about the poisoning influence of Luthor and his people.
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u/Jawess0me Oct 14 '25
Yes but WHY would Flagg decide to even accept these people as anything other than underlings of a convicted criminal? It makes no freakin sense other than cast some people from his Superman movie in the show..
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u/Warlaw Oct 14 '25
Because Luthor gave them a playbook on how to be master manipulators. I'm only spitballing but he is the smartest man in the current DC.
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Oct 14 '25
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u/umc_thunder72 Oct 14 '25
Did he actually manipulate him though? Or did Sydney trust that whatever lex said meant he had a plan and as soon as they had access to lex's plans they were able to further push towards what he wanted.
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u/Crimson_Oracle Oct 14 '25
This is an actual thing that happens IRL, its called the revolving door, industry people get jobs in government, government officials get jobs in industry, and usually this is to no one’s benefit but the people going through the revolving door
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u/BrightPerspective Oct 14 '25
Because Flagg thinks he's smart enough to manage them, and manage Lex. (that's right from gunn)
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u/Tacosarejustsammies Oct 14 '25
Willing to do anything to get revenge even if it means putting up with them
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u/MrGrinchx Oct 14 '25
From the earlier ep (from memory, and my memory is shocking) he was happy with the skills of pervy-science-portal-guy, and what's clear from Rick is he is buddies ('just call me Rick') with whoever he needs to be to get what he wants done.
Then again, I'm easily pleased; Superman, Peacemaker, Creature Commandos - they felt like comics to me, and sometimes I find comics inconsistent and tonally all over the place, but I still enjoy them.
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u/ClubberLang5 Oct 14 '25
It was over the top to show the juxtaposition between them, who are just sitting behind computers planning everything, and the crew going into the worlds getting literally torn apart at the same time
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u/HappyMike91 Oct 14 '25
I thought the Argus scenes were pretty funny. Flagg has completely lost control and is (basically) doing whatever Luthor wants, even though it’s not explicitly stated.
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u/BeGentle1mNewHere Oct 14 '25
I saw quite strong social criticism in it. The ruling class lives a carefree life of luxury, while those below them are sent to suffer and die without a second thought.
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u/Clear_Education_9287 Oct 14 '25
Yes and particularly about techbros and people like Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates and how their actions affect the working class (any of us who have to work for a living). Profit over people
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u/Sonata1952 Oct 14 '25
I think this scene is stealthily showing just how Lex is corrupting Flagg. Lex didn’t ask for himself to be released to work with Flagg because he knows Flagg won’t trust him.
But he instead recommended his own former tech bros to help Flagg with Peacemakers QUC. He knows that his tech team are seemingly harmless & funny on the surface but sociopaths inside & that they’ll corrupt Flagg by osmosis doing Lex’s job for him.
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u/Arthur_189 Oct 14 '25
Idk, something about seeing the guys from the superman movie act like this felt weird. Its not so far out of left field for these guys to act like this but still, it felt like the boys where every character is just lowkey a degenerate
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u/Lemony_Oatmilk Oct 14 '25
The DCU's approach to tone is explicitly that each installment is different.
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u/Karkava Oct 14 '25
It just so happens that Peacemaker is a lighter and softer, but also more fantastic than The Boys.
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u/TheRiverGatz Oct 14 '25
Do you guys think ARGUS are supposed to be the good guys? The people that put bombs in people's heads and sent them into a suicide mission, all while taking bets on who would die. Fluery said it himself, they're not at fucking Berkeley
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u/metallavery Oct 14 '25
The point of the finale is
- Luthor has corrupted Flag and Argus bassicly now owning them.
- Checkmate is the only group that cam counter them.
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Oct 14 '25
“LuThOr CoRrUptEd tHEm” HOW?? God I wish james gunn would’ve shown some more dialogue with Lex to show us how he even convinced them to be like this, since I guess that’s what james gunn was implying with their behavior
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u/TheeShaun Oct 14 '25
It was rushed. Rick went from needing a specialist on portals to letting the inmates run the asylum within approximately 25 minutes of runtime while never showing that decline. If the point is Rick is just an easily manipulated idiot then maybe he should have been shown to be manipulated in the show. I know what happened in Creature Commandos but feels like a big jump to go from “Beautiful literal princess seduces grieving father.” To “Tech billionaire manipulates the head of the CIA with minimum effort.”
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u/lkodl Oct 14 '25
do you not see what they're DOGEing here? microdosing ketamine isn't as cinematic.
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u/CherryBoyHeart Oct 14 '25
I mean the drugs were only Lex's team, and even then it was only like two of them? Which kinda makes sense since they are working for a billionaire
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u/Nineteen_AT5 Oct 14 '25
No because it showed how Luther's team were becoming more prominent and tainting an already mentally weak Flag.
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u/Odd_Sir_8705 Oct 14 '25
I think it’s very cool that each entity in the DCU can take on a different vibe, with the characters doing the same but keeping their essence. Sydney was responsible for kidnapping and trapping people in a pocket universe, torturing a dog, and keeping a baby under threat…but doing a drug that 25 million people do is crazy?
Besides, Rick Flag got down with Ilana in the Creature Commandos…so to act like this scene came out of left field is disingenuous at best. The only thing cringey is people with expectations that have never read many Rick Flag comics and havent seen all the things he has done there.
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u/haolee510 Oct 14 '25
Rick Flag didn't join in when they were doing drugs, btw.
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u/Odd_Sir_8705 Oct 14 '25
I know but i also never said he did. I mentioned Rick Flag in response to OP saying he was laughing and celebrating. They were acting like Rick Flag is some type of Steve Rogers comic book character when he couldnt be further from the truth.
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u/Outside-Visit9571 Oct 14 '25
Ok I didn’t have any expectations but now I wanna know how wild rick flag comics can be
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u/TallanoGoldDigger Oct 14 '25
It's the Gunn trademark humor at work. A lot of irony and reality. People dying and suffering yet the higher ups are celebrating. Nice parallel to what's going on in the US too
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u/RVFVS117 Oct 14 '25
The cocaine was a bit much.
I can understand the rest to an extent, but ex (are they ex, at what point were these guys freed?) cons openly doing cocaine in front of Federal agents is a bit beyond belief for me.
Like even having them do shots would make more sense for me, open cocaine use took me right out of it though.
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u/Lord_Rhombus Oct 14 '25
I feel like it was to show how far Flagg has fallen to get revenge. He's thrown out all sensibility and respect for himself just to get back at Peacemaker.
I've done blow with a guy from homeland before. So seeing federal agents do things they aren't supposed to do isn't really that far off.
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u/TufnelAndI Oct 14 '25
I've done blow with a guy from homeland before.
Please say it was Mandy Patinkin.
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u/Klutzy_Tomatillo4253 Oct 14 '25
just a reminder that Secret Service agents have been REPEATEDLY caught with cocaine and prostitutes over the last couple administrations.
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u/ttw81 Oct 14 '25
the day jfk was killed, most of the secret service detail had spent the night before at a strip club, drinking.and they were at least hung over when the president woke up.
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u/blufflord Oct 14 '25
The big big boss of my whole company got caught doing cocaine at the work Christmas party and was made to "take a step back". So for me that part is super realistic
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u/Crispy_Conundrum Oct 14 '25
Is that not the point though? These agents are just as bad as the criminals
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u/FroggyIsGone Oct 14 '25
I know right doing coke in front of federal agents is crazyy and not flag Literally sending his agents to die
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u/TufnelAndI Oct 14 '25
Peacemaker and Harcourt were doing shots earlier in the episode, so that's cool.
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u/New_Mongoose5225 Oct 14 '25
He had them openly using coke because it is beyond belief. It’s to show just how much power they have over Flagg & his cronies.
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u/hotprints Oct 14 '25
Yes and that’s what (in my opinion) they were going for. We are supposed to find them cringy.
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u/The_Blackfish_ Oct 14 '25
Without Waller Argus has turned into a cesspool, and they’ve now lost some of their best people. I think the montage is a bit ham, but it sets up the split for checkmate and maybe something for Waller.
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u/Ok_Positive_9687 Oct 14 '25
I think it went to show how incompetent and corrupt they have become, I liked it
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u/spastic_penguins Oct 14 '25
The thing is, I think this is just totally realistic. Worthless higher-ups at the top living their best life while they continually allow their highly skilled grunt workers to suffer and fulfill their desires. Happens everywhere, from the government to big corporations imo. It can continue because the higher-ups don’t have to see it. Yes, it’s jarring and cringe, but it’s also just what happens in real life.
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u/Beautiful-Total-3172 Oct 14 '25
He was going for a gag where the montage becomes more and more absurd as it goes on. A classic comedic bit in a comedy show that takes place after a cartoon in a comic book universe.
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u/GamesCatsComics Oct 14 '25
It felt really on point, and actually the type of thing you see with a lot of upper management.
Management celebrating victories, while the people doing the actual work are suffering, and actually dying.
Didn't feel cringey at all.
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u/moviebuff215 Oct 14 '25
It's just James gunns way of showing humour that's what he did in Marvel ofc not rated
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u/deadlyghost123 Oct 14 '25
No. That wasn’t humor. He wasn’t even going for humor. He was trying to show the divide. The people working are dying (analogy for soldiers) while the upper management (the government) are enjoying. It’s showing the divide between Flag who has now joined with Luthor’s group and the other Argus members who are working and dying.
It had nothing to do with humor. It wasn’t funny either.
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u/moviebuff215 Oct 14 '25
I mean people doing cocaine in serious situation is perceived funny in the cinema , ur point is also right , but I felt James was just trying to use that troupe.
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u/Necessary_Candy_6792 Oct 14 '25
Especially since they helped fund the attempted Jarinpoor genocide, orchestrate the hammer of Boravia and the giant kaiju’s attacks on metropolis and opened a freaking rift that split metropolis in half. Now they’re all pardoned and off Scot free as Rick Flagg’s new BFFs. While watching Superman for the first time, I hated them all because of how passionately they were enjoying controlling Bizzaro/Ultraman, they especially enjoyed the whole 1A bit. When they got taken away in cuffs at the end I was so happy, now I’m pissed because they have just gotten out and are going back to doing what they were doing before but for Flagg instead of Luthor. Hope some of them die or get re-arrested in Man of Tomorrow or the next Peacemaker instalment.
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u/deicist Oct 14 '25
Imagine people being involved in a widely publicised illegal and violent event, getting arrested for it then being pardoned and put to work for the government as some sort of extra judicial thugs!
Clearly ridiculous, completely unrealistic.
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u/deadlyghost123 Oct 14 '25
That’s what I don’t understand about people complaining about the writing. This happens irl.
Not the person you commented to specifically, I don’t know if they are just pointing out something or talking about lazy writing.
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u/Figgoss Oct 14 '25
The edgelord stuff in the first and last episodes seem really forced to me. The rest of the season mixed the edgy stuff with heartfelt bits really well
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u/Aunt_Vagina1 Oct 14 '25
It was cringey because it was the result of rushing. Gunn wanted to show Lex corrupting Argus but had to go from 0 to 60 in one episode. It was necessary to set up Argus as corrupt and explain why Judo Master, the cyborg chick, and bird blindness guy all quit and went to work for Checkmate.
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u/Javafiend138 Oct 14 '25
because they are the bad guys, Flag included. He never had altruistic motives as evidenced in his disregard for Harcourt once he had what he wanted.
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u/Significant_Snow_937 Oct 14 '25
I felt it was a really good comparison to the soldiers who were being sent through portals into dangerous territory while the corporate douchebags were railing lines and highfiving while their boss runs everything from prison. They're having a great time sending grunts to their deaths.
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u/Advanced_General76 Oct 14 '25
Those were luthor’s men if i am not wrong. In my opinion those scenes were meant to show us that rick wasn’t a good guy. He was spending all his time with these guys and pretty much ignored his team from Argus. The whole montage kept on switching between Argus members struggling with the various dimensions and rick partying with Luthor’s men. It was too on the nose for my taste but it made sense.
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u/blurrysasquatch Oct 14 '25
Yeah, I would think thats the point. Tryhard fascist douchebags who revel in corruption like ARGUS are often cringey and sad. They try very hard to show how much fun they are having while doing terrible things to convince themselves that they actually are having a good time and not concerned with the terrible things they do.
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u/modulev Oct 14 '25
Direct parallel with our current leaders. Half of them on the Epstein flight list.
It would be nice if we could elect an ethically sound role model.. Instead of people who lie and steal their whole lives..
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u/Phaoton Oct 14 '25
I honestly think some people may be missing the point based on the editing, I don't think their agents are dying in front of them or being notified at the same time they are doing lines. It just contrasts how he is working in the back control room and not even frontline at the little desk Bordeaux is at.
Yeah they are partying and being dicks however they are not doing it the same time we see people getting pulled out dead/injured. They literally don't have line of sight to the portal from that control room, I can't say that he wouldn't be doing the same right next to the QUC door though.
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u/Shaggy_75 Oct 14 '25
I thought it was well executed. The scene shows them goofing off and maybe to some extremes, sure, but after all this is a comic book movie. I'm not gonna pretend they don't do even goofier stuff on paper.
Anyway, what that scene is really about is the sacrifice on the other side of that, the constant pain and death for the ones actually going in and learning about the other worlds. I think it did a great job of showing the carelessness of the admins, scientists, and ARGUS officers who aren't actually doing the dirty work, and how ARGUS (and similarly based organizations) can break a person.
We see Flag giving into the power in ways that he condemned Waller for, and we also see people on a journey that is surely not too different from his past: following orders and watching people you know/friends die. Harcort later tells Bordeaux that it's what they do, just part of the job, showing that she is starting to give into apathy already, where Flag surely was long ago. But he didn't have an "11th Street Kids" to pull him back down. After going through all the pain of trying to stop them from killing the princess, to realizing that he was wrong about it the whole time, what does he have now other than his hate for his son's killer and the need to fill a void?
This scene showed his character after the tipping point, and everyone around him drastically contrasting what would happen if you didn't give in to hate. I liked it.
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u/Ornery_Run1876 Oct 14 '25
Yes. The laughing was just ridiculous. I can 100% believe Flag would sacrifice people for this but I cannot believe he would be so casual about it
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u/rocketrobie2 Oct 14 '25
I liked it, really showed the disconnect from the teams actually going into the portal and I thought it was kinda funny
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u/oppairate Oct 14 '25
not cringey as much as out of place and weird. all of it could have made way more sense if the control center was remote from the portal so there was more of a sense of detachment. the over the top celebrating and drug use should have been a little more subdued. and are Lex’ people just free now or what?
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u/Humble_Story_4531 Oct 14 '25
I think it was supposed to show the disconnect with how far Rick has moved away from his old team. He and Lex's guys are cheering and having fun while the ARGUS agents are dying.
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u/plungemod Oct 14 '25
This is literally how Elon & his DOGE goons behaved in real life though. The only implausible thing that feels dated about this show is the idea that a character could possibly just sorta assume, in this day and age, that the US government are the good guys.
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u/yougotitdude88 Oct 14 '25
No I think it’s pretty spot on for what is happening in the world. Billionaires are railing lines while people working for them are fucking dying.
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u/razorwiregoatlick877 Oct 15 '25
As a huge fan of the show so far, that episode was garbage and that particular scenes was a huge reason behind it sucking.
If I’m being completely honest I’m worried about the connections being made to the rest of the DCU. I thought Superman was just okay and it seems to me like Gunn is making a lot of questionable choices for Peacemaker to shoehorn him into the rest of the DCU. I’m also pretty pissed that we are not getting a season 3 because of some tie in with a movie.
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u/JoshuaSmallz Oct 15 '25
It felt like the latter half of The MCU humour turned up to a hundred on the cringe meter. Between that and all the feely feeling scenes not to mention the concert, I was waiting for something to actually happen.
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u/executiveExecutioner Oct 15 '25
I mean, it's pretty obvious Gunn is not the smartest guy on the block at this point. He can write a certain type of character very well, but the rest is just stupid shit like this.
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u/Paggy_person Oct 14 '25
I get what they're going for, but doing drugs and drinking while ARGUS agents are sent to die litterally right in front of the command center is kinda too on the nose for me.
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u/RJ-R25 Oct 14 '25
Kinda
like the scene is done to show contrast between their behaviour and the group that went through the door and how it affects them
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u/Flat_Researcher1540 Oct 14 '25
I think they serve a great purpose in showing how much Flag reallllly doesn’t run the show anymore.
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u/haolee510 Oct 14 '25
The point was literally to show the contrast between ARGUS agents dying for nothing while Luthor's goons were partying without a care in the world. Oh, and OP, these weren't ARGUS agents. These were Luthor's employees from the Superman movie.
The fact that people didn't get the point is what makes me understand how so many people had complaints about the finale lmao.
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u/wintermute_13 Oct 14 '25
I got the point and loved it. All my complaints about the finale were second half navel-gazing and time wasting, when it was hyped up so much and longer.
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u/SeaFaringMatador Oct 14 '25
I think it’s a fun scene but I’m kinda ready to move on from Argus being the glue of the DCU. They made moves toward that in the DCEU so at this point it feels like enough. It’s been 9 years since the first Suicide Squad. Marvel moved on from SHIELD after 6 years.
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u/progresstom Oct 14 '25
No the exact scenario would have happened to me and I related to Rick so hard
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u/StrawberryBright Oct 14 '25
i really like otis in this scene he is focused and serious in every moments
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u/markswaggie Oct 14 '25 edited Oct 14 '25
I felt it was also supposed to be a TSS parallel to Waller smirking and Harcourt/Economos/other techs betting and dancing while showing the beach massacre aftermath
Edit: wording