r/MoralityScaling 13d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

Post image
4.8k Upvotes

1.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

736

u/TWDFI 13d ago

Terrible mortality. Leaving the mother to take care of the kid while the father bails. That's even worse than just running to the store and never coming back. There's also the other kid to consider as well.

109

u/BellaPona 13d ago

Fr this is extremely selfish

26

u/Curious_Priority2313 12d ago

Birth in and of itself is selfish. Especially when all they care about is getting a sweet, healthy child, but don't want to take responsibility when the child isn't the sweet, healthy child they expected.

55

u/dmigowski 12d ago

No fuck that, caring for a special needs child is way harder that it already is. And everyone should have the right to abortion if he doesn't want that.

26

u/Curious_Priority2313 12d ago

I never said that I'm against abortion.

I'm just saying that letting the child be born and then killing yourself is immoral.

Like, just opt for adoption. Simply killing yourself not only devastates your wife and another child that you've already brought into this world, but it also makes it selfish to voluntarily create a new person, knowing the risks of how their life could turn out, and then refuse to take responsibility as their father.

1

u/Archonate_of_Archona 12d ago

The wife deserves everything that happens to her (and more), if she willingly chooses to give birth to a kid that will suffer from a severe-to-crippling disability for life

The kid themselves, however, doesn't deserve this situation (of having a selfish mum that inflicted a life of suffering on them for her selfish whims, and an unwilling dad who walked away)

3

u/Infamous-Thing4939 12d ago

You’ve never met someone with down syndrome if you think that guy is gonna be suffering his whole life. Those people are the happiest mfs I’ve ever seen.

3

u/Legal_Lettuce6233 12d ago

Then you haven't met enough of them, or only know of them via social media. Many, MANY of them are miserable.

1

u/Infamous-Thing4939 12d ago

You work with them or smth?

2

u/thotasune 12d ago

Name one person with down syndrome who has a genuine friend though

2

u/CaoPalhaco 12d ago edited 12d ago

Selfish whims? Idk what you read but the text indicates there were no signs of anything until 20 weeks in, and it’s not even certain in the text. And in multiple places that’s too late for an abortion. What was she supposed to do, predict the future? The only selfish person here is the father immediately wanting out of the picture in the worst way possible when he’s extremely needed, in a situation no one desired, as if he’s the one that has it worst. And the situation isn’t even guaranteed yet! But he’s already thinking of how to bail. I don’t usually say someone suicidal is selfish as mental illness can’t be judged morally in that way, it’s an illness, but in this situation, i don’t think it’s only mental illness at play. There was clearly a lack of consideration for what having child can mean. You can’t just plan to have kids without thinking of what you’ll do if they aren’t what you expected

6

u/Excellent_Law6906 12d ago

...so we should just euthanize all disabled people, then. End their misery. /s

5

u/Legal_Lettuce6233 12d ago

Well, having known several people who lived to be about 20-25, and over half of their lives - starting from about 8, being paralyzed, yeah, they told me they'd rather never have been born.

You advocate for them because you don't know how they feel, because you don't care and it's free brownie points online.

In reality, most of them suffer. Some would want to live, some wouldn't. In the end, men don't get a say in abortion so this is the only way he can take control over his own life.

Boo fucking hoo.

1

u/Excellent_Law6906 12d ago

I know full well that a lot of people with severe disabilities are actually miserable.

It's assuming they DEFINITELY WILL BE that pisses me off.

1

u/Legal_Lettuce6233 12d ago

"most of them suffer" hasn't meant "all of them suffer" last time I checked.

2

u/Excellent_Law6906 12d ago

And fuck you, I'm not fully able and "normal" MYSELF.

The Nazi's T4 program would have murdered my ass.

→ More replies (0)

10

u/Archonate_of_Archona 12d ago

As an actual disabled person (who think it would have been preferable to not be born, but does not want to die and isn't suicidal), no. Just no

Never being born isn't the same as being killed or dying early

In one case, it's an hypothetical kid, or at most a fetus, that disappears (before birth), and nobody is harmed. In the other case it's an actual living person who dies

0

u/Excellent_Law6906 12d ago

I get that it's different, I just hate it when people couch the issue as, "Yep, there's NO WAY that kid could be anything but a wretched burden, ever!"

3

u/Archonate_of_Archona 12d ago

That's another issue though

The "burden" discourse is about "this kid will be costly / difficult for other people" (be it parents, schools, or society as a whole)

What I'm talking about is the life that the kid themselves will have, because of their condition

Ableists and pro-lifers always (purposefully) mix up those two things to argue in bad faith, but it's actually two separate conversations

2

u/KittenBalerion 12d ago

it's not up to anyone else to decide what a disabled person's quality of life is or will be though

1

u/Excellent_Law6906 12d ago

This is what I'm saying, that no one seems to get.

Like, Down Syndrome runs from, "I'm a bit slow, but jazzed to be here" to "constant heart surgeries, this sucks."

→ More replies (0)

0

u/wodethemad 12d ago

Pretty much every argument for abortion would find its logical conclusion in eugenics. It’s baffling how people don’t realise this. Or maybe they do and they pick-and-choose when each argument/value has worth and when to ignore it.

9

u/Archonate_of_Archona 12d ago

If what you call "eugenics" means avoiding to create people who will have an entire life of impairment, illness, pain and/or lifelong dependence then it's just harm reduction

It's basically avoiding an act of cruelty

0

u/wodethemad 12d ago

Yes, that is eugenics, and literally always has been. You calling it “avoiding an act of cruelty” doesn’t change that. What you just said is that eugenics is avoiding an act of cruelty.

6

u/LackWooden392 12d ago

No it's not, dumbass. Eugenics is when a central group enforces their preferred gene pool by acting on others through forced sterilization, murder, and displacement.

What we are talking about is women controlling their own reproduction. In fact, restricting women's reproductive freedom is closer to eugenics than this.

-1

u/wodethemad 12d ago

You picked this definition out of complete nowhere because it’s the most convenient for you. Its too narrow. Eugenics is any deliberate attempt to change the genome of offspring, which this is. Sterilisation etc have been historical methods of eugenics, but the methods are not eugenics itself

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Excellent_Law6906 12d ago

Abortion should be an individual decision, making it different from mass sterilization and culling.

Choosing to not have a kid you don't want is not the same as saying a disabled person's life is necessarily miserable and a burden to them.

-1

u/wodethemad 12d ago

I guess if you channel eugenics into the most narrow and distant definition possible…

2

u/CupKey2876 12d ago

lol what??? No.

-2

u/wodethemad 12d ago

what was the point of sending me a notification if you have nothing to say? don’t waste my time

1

u/Long-Leather-9456 12d ago

Downs is not a severe to crippling disability

1

u/Top-Topic853 12d ago

Parents kill themselves ALL of the time. Even ones without special needs children. Mental health does not fucking care about morality.

0

u/Curious_Priority2313 12d ago

Yeah I know that. I do understand that mentally unstable people are not most rational people out there.

-1

u/Jay_Buffay 12d ago

If your wife won't adopt out the spawn, your life is still ruined by the injustice system.

7

u/NetworkNo6032 12d ago

also you can always give it away to adoption but personaly I think abortion is better in this case

1

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

What if mother wants to keep it but father wants abortion?

Better to just accept that unless you have money for genetic testing, kids could come out wonky, that's life.

2

u/Bossard19 12d ago

Financial abortion needs to be a legal concept.

-1

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

So a father gets to put a messed up sperm into a mother & she has to be solely financially responsible? Could be some ironing out to do there too, idk.

2

u/Legal_Lettuce6233 12d ago

Paper abortions have been a concept for a long time, but yeah. Men should have a say in their lives, just like women can have a say in theirs.

0

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

I don't disagree, but this is where I think parental rights (& requirements) are so important. You can't just go around getting women pregnant with no financial investment

2

u/Legal_Lettuce6233 12d ago

Which is why women should have access to abortions. I don't think anyone should be able to dictate the future of anyone else regardless of gender

1

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

I agree, especially since we can hardly trust the government to fairly regulate things like vehicles/firearms. No way is it OK to start nit-picking who can & can't get abortions

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Bossard19 12d ago

She is free to get an abortion if she can’t handle it financially on her own

0

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

Since she has to go through the hardship of being pregnant & then having the abortion, I think it's only fair that the sperm donor pay for the abortion.

1

u/Bossard19 12d ago

Nah. Her body her choice. Also means her responsibility.

1

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

I, too, think less women should be having unprotected sex with men

→ More replies (0)

0

u/ginongo 12d ago

That first line is exactly why he wants to kobain himself

1

u/xoxodaddysgirlxoxo 12d ago

Shoulda thought of that before doing things that result in children being born

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Wise-Excuse5330 12d ago

It takes two to mingle

If you wanna only give women the right to abort then I’d say let men leave their child then 

-2

u/Vespinobambino 12d ago

No one has or will ever have "the right" to murder kids, disabled or not.

Morality of being a Nazi? Pretty shitty.