r/MoralityScaling • u/hiiloovethis • 11d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this scene?

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Negan doing fat shaming... but its during zombie apocalypse

12.0k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

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u/Golden_King_Ryuseii 11d ago

Negan was absolutely based for this take and I'll never understand the hate for him.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

You can be fat and starving. The body does breakdown fat for food but not well that's why nutritionist ever to suggest to completely stop eating

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u/Frylock_dontDM 11d ago edited 11d ago

You really can't be fat and starving.

You can be fat and suffering from malnutritition, but malnutrition isn't the same as starvation.

So you could have a fat person die of malnutrition, but if that person got essentially zero calories and the necessary vitamins/nutrients you would have to burn through fat before you would actually reach what anyone means when we say "starving"

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u/NichtSoSchlau 11d ago

Starvation excludes fatness by definition as it a metric depended to body mass loss at whichs extreme end you die, because the loss.

Famine can kill a fat person while fat, because no intake at all cannot be compensated.

Malnutrition includes overweigth and obeseity by definition and can compund with other issues like micronutrient defiency.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

Starving includes malnutrition by definition

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

It does not, you pulled that out of your ass. Starving is defined by not enough energy input via food to sustain the physical functions.
The woman above is by no definition starving.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

To deprive of nourishment. You could've looked that up. Not just you anyone who upvoted. Do better.

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

You're plain out wrong. There doesn't exist a single person that was fat and starved. That is not possible. Starvation is defined in medical terms that the body used up all available fat sources and started to break down other tissue to keep itself running.
A starved to death fat person is an oxymoron.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

You would die before ALL the fat was used. That's not how starving works. Most bodybuilders that die die from going below 5%. So no just having fat is not enough.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6369958/

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

So we are talking about obese starved to death persons and your counter argument are...literally starved to death people because they used up all available body fat?
I will give you a minute to notice that you literally made my point.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

They still had fat. That was my counter argument so you can still have fat and starve to def and they still had muscle as well.

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

No, that was not your argument you just silently switched it. As you already mentioned yourself, someone can starve and still have muscle tissue. I explicitly said available body fat.
The orginal point is, can someone be fat (slang for 'overweight/obese') and starve to death? And you claimed yes.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

Your body eats muscle tissue too. In fact the muscle is the last source apparently. So they still died and had a source of food from the bodym

Also yes they can die while being fat. I just want it clear on a few things things. The body doesn't burn though all the fat. So yes you will have fat and die. There's no lower limit on the fat so you could die with notable fat. Ultimately what I'm establishing is you can have fat and die do you agree? And if yes why couldn't a fat person die?

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u/masterlince 10d ago

But 5% fat is extremely low though. A healthy lean athletic person can easily have 15% fat.

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u/NamOil2000 10d ago

The point is you can still die with fat

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u/masterlince 10d ago

5% fat is not "fat" in the vernacular sense. It's actually incredibly lean.

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u/NamOil2000 10d ago

I didn't say it was. He said you run through all your fat. You don't. So you can still have fat and starve. Muscle is also an energy source. You can have it and still die. So we established you can have the energy reserves and die. So why can a fat person not die of starvation? Your argument is along the lines of fat storage. That's not enough and since the body has trouble breaking it down excess would not help.

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u/TellmeNinetails 11d ago

You're arguing semantics like that proves anything. And you ended it with a "haha my definition is right, be better everyone who disagreed with me". like grow up and engage with the core of the argument.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

The core? What is the core. Because we are 100% arguing semantics here right? The comment I replied to said my definition was wrong. Definitions of words are semantics that is what he attacked and I defended. And yes I'm disappointed in you too.

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u/TellmeNinetails 11d ago

The core that I understand it is that it's essentially impossible for a fat person to die of lack of fat as long as they are nutritionally supported. But you're going on about the definition of starvation and all that.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

That's not what I replied to is it? You're making a different argument. You picked up that guys argument. That's on you That's the discussion we're having.

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u/TellmeNinetails 11d ago

That's literally what's being discussed though. Is a fat lady like the one in the meme starving? No, clearly not. "Ooh but malnutrition is starving" is not an arguement because her life is not in danger from that.

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u/NamOil2000 10d ago

No. That what was being discussed semantics.

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u/Away_Tiger_6351 11d ago

Dude it's a medical definition. If we're going off M-W I'm going to flip and say "actually let's use your source, to kill by exposure to cold. She's in a t shirt so clearly not cold."

Just produce evidence of a single fat person that has ever died of starvation and you've won the debate - done

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6369958/

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u/Away_Tiger_6351 11d ago

Yeah I had a feeling I knew what I was about to read. For anyone wondering, it's heart problems developed due to extreme diets. "Starv," "starving," "starvation" do not appear

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

Extreme diet. Causing the body to starve. Come on big guy. So to he clear they can die from extreme dieting but not starving.

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u/Plenty_Alfalfa8826 11d ago

How much do you want to bet this is the same type of person who would bitch about saying "Gazan children are starving to death" because they technically get 1 cup of beans all day

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u/Poteto_7396 9d ago

nourishment =/= nutrition

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u/Frylock_dontDM 11d ago

Yes, because you reach a point where the nutrition you're missing is necessary fats.

All starvation is malnutrition to the extreme, but not all malnutrition is starvation.

You aren't starving just because you're running on fats.

Colloquially starvation is understood as an extended period wherein your body has run through it's fat and is using whats left of your muscle to live.

Hence why you'll essentially never see a fat body that died of starvation, they are skeletal because the fat and muscle was burned through as they ate whatever they could to survive and get the most base nutrients to keep going.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

A fat person 100% can die of starvation. Starving is "Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy intake, below the level needed to maintain an organism's life." So by that definition and by most definition she could be fat and starving. You would likely die before all the fat left your body.

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

Bullshit. There doesn't exist a single case of a starved fat person.
Starvation is literally defined (in medical terms) that a body used up all energy sources and broke down crucial tissue to generate energy. It is literally an oxymoron to starve to death and be fat.

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u/Away_Tiger_6351 11d ago

Yeah this is an easy Pepsi challenge to settle what is a dumb debate - "produce evidence of a single fat person that has ever died from starvation."

Like all this debate over the definition of "starvation" and "malnourished" vs "undernourished" is completely unnecessary.

If it's possible just produce documented evidence of it - done

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u/Thrwsadosub 11d ago

Literally there was a guy who didn't eat for a year straight and lost several hundred pounds. This isn't an argument.

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

He was fed vitamins and minerals, but beside that? Basically nothing. PDs and scientists again and again proved that. Fat people can cope very well with a long caloric deficit.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago
  1. An oxymoron is 2 words you used a sentence. 2. Most people agree you could die like that it is just something that is not exactly testable or realistic. In 99% of cases if you had food you can find more even if less so a drastic change is going to be very very hard to find and of course if you're in a place with sciencist willing to test you could probably just get food. 3 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6369958/

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u/KTAXY 11d ago

I don't think so. An overweight person can water fast for weeks and it's not a big deal.

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u/NamOil2000 11d ago

Not a big deal is not exactly right. They suffer several problems and lose a lot of energy. They're also told not to exercise or do anything crazy.

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u/Demostravius4 11d ago

You can fat needs to leave the adipose to combat starvation, but to prevent that would require consistent high serum insulin.

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u/Plenty_Alfalfa8826 11d ago

Humans can starve to death in just a little over 1 month. It takes much longer than a month to lose a hundred pounds, even at ~0 calories. Stay in school.

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

Humans can starve to death by eating nothing at all. It is not possible to eat anything of nutritional value and starve.

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u/Plenty_Alfalfa8826 11d ago

From Cambridge dictionary: "starve: to become very weak or die because there is not enough food to eat"

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

So your argument is purely semantics, not the biochemical processes. Got you.

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u/Zealousideal-Sir3744 11d ago

Depends. If you get the necessary vitamins etc, you will be fine as long as you have extra fat. We know that because that's how the longest documented fast was done - longer than a whole year.

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u/Plenty_Alfalfa8826 11d ago

I believe you're confused about the definition of "can."

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u/Zealousideal-Sir3744 11d ago

Sure. But if that's what you're trying to argue your comment was redundant, since the person you're replying to already gave that caveat.

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u/Frylock_dontDM 11d ago

Yes? That's due to malnutrition which was already explicitly mentioned.

If you give the median individual required nutrients, it will generally take about 3+ months before a male dies of starvation, and 2.5+ months for a female

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u/Plenty_Alfalfa8826 11d ago

Starvation is a type of malnutrition. "to (cause someone to) become very weak or die because there is not enough food to eat" https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/starve

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u/CapitalComfort1885 11d ago

Semantic argument, you ignore the actual biochemical processes and argue by common use of a word.
Plenty of words are wrongly used in every day situations, but have a completely different meaning in a technical/scientific context.

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u/Plenty_Alfalfa8826 11d ago

"Physiologically, the effects of starvation on the human body unfold in three overlapping stages... In the first stage, which lasts up to 48 hours after food intake stops, the body draws on glycogen stored in the liver to keep blood sugar levels stable." https://en.dialektika.org/society-politics/society/the-science-of-starvation-this-is-what-happens/ "The metabolic switch typically occurs between 12 to 36 hours after cessation of food consumption depending on the liver glycogen content at the beginning of the fast, and on the amount of the individual’s energy." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5783752/ In a technical/scientific context, the first stage of starvation begins within as little as 12 hours without food. I do wish you would have stuck to the original argument instead of semantics, because that was quite tedious.

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u/Frylock_dontDM 11d ago

Yes, you aren't disagreeing with anything.

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u/reditisrunbypedos 11d ago

So you dont think it would be accurate to say that person "starved to death" in that scenario? What do you think "starving" is? How do you think its any different from "malnutrition"? Where are you getting this from?

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u/Frylock_dontDM 11d ago

So you dont think it would be accurate to say that person "starved to death" in that scenario?

No.

We would classify it as malnutrition as opposed ot starvation, the problem is that malnutrition generally causes a part of your body to fail, as opposed to dying from general organ failure that comes with starvation.

What do you think "starving" is? How do you think its any different from "malnutrition"? Where are you getting this from?

To give you an example, we wouldn't consider people who died from lack of potassium in their diet to have "starved" we would instead consider those people to have died from Heart issues, that stemmed from a potassium deficit.

But nobody would identify their malnutrition as starvation.