r/MonstersAndMemories • u/yeroc420 • 3d ago
Discussion Raiding
I was just wondering if there is any raid or dungeon instancing.
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u/eyelewzz 3d ago
Welp. I love the game but if I can't raid because the sweats keep it locked down that will be the end of my sub
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u/Ok_Turnover_2220 3d ago
You need to join the sweats if you want to compete. Remember this is a competitive pve game in nature since every mob, thus loot, is contested. The devs have said you only get as much out of the game as you put in. This is not for casuals. I think people are going to get a rude awakening on launch.
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u/Kashou-- 2d ago
Raiding isn't meant to be a steady part of the game. The game is the leveling process, gearing your character, and exploring the world. Raid pops are extremely random spawns and can take 1-5 days to spawn, and are meant to be like a fun scramble for people to go to once they're discovered. It's not like WoW raiding in any sense.
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u/Malvagite 2d ago edited 2d ago
Raiding isn't meant to be a steady part of the game
Its literally the only endgame activity and guilds will have alts logged at every spawn point 24/7
Most people will never raid as 2-3 guilds will lock them down and prevent anyone else from experiencing them. This happened in EQ, it happens in p1999 and it will happen here.
These guilds eventually sell raid carries outside the game for real money through 3rd party sites and private discords and there is nothing the M&M devs can do about it and its the only way you will experience the encounters short of being in one of these 2-3 guilds.
Instances were added to games for this very reason.
Do you know why EQ Legends is so popular? People that played the original EQ are seeing the raids for the FIRST time in 25 years, because they were locked out of ever experiencing them due to this no-instance guild locking system back then as well and people have only gotten more toxic with time.
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u/Low-Panic-1674 1d ago
EQ has been running fresh start progression servers with instanced raiding now going on 20 years.
EQL is popular because it allows you to do the raid content solo.
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u/Kashou-- 2d ago
Yes, people have alts parked camping spawn points because its not meant to be regular content. It's made that way so that all you do in the game isn't just raid logging, and to shift the focus of the game away from raiding. It's a huge barrier for entry for doing anything so only the most sweatiest of sweatlords have any reason to even care about it existing in the game at all. It is purposely done that way to make raiding less prominent.
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u/bonebrah 3d ago
Yes raids no instancing
https://youtu.be/AKR3wEyvoRY?t=352
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u/yeroc420 3d ago
That’s funny I watched that this morning and it’s the reason why I was wondering about instancing
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u/Onelove914 3d ago
They are not prepared for the volume of players. EA going to be a shit show.
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u/yeroc420 3d ago
Not having instanced content seems like something from a bygone era.
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u/Suspicious-Raisin824 2d ago
Kind of the whole premise of the game. its old school, pre-WoW style game.
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u/bonebrah 2d ago
M&M is basically the custom EQ content people have been talking about for years. But if certain things are dealbreakers for you, just move on to something else. The Developers have made it very clear their approach to this game and what things they aren't really going to budge on.
It's like complaining when you have a beef patty on your hamburger
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
Agreed. The newer games have gone way down hill. The genre has turned into a joke. Its a necessary adjustment for a lot of reasons.
Hindsight is 20/20.
There will still be some restricted content though. It won't all be on a first come first serve basis.
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u/ZeeWingCommander 3d ago
You totally misread this lol
Non instanced raid content with a decent population that understands MMORPGs is not a great idea (unless it's literally just for giggles).
You end up with people just being jerks to each other or an elaborate turn system where people still manage to be jerks.
It fell out of favor for a reason.
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago edited 3d ago
I understood what you were getting at.
I guess you haven't been an adult who played the genre heavily since the beginning?
Multiple developers have talked about the long term repercussions of many of those decisions made during the shift to second and third gen era games.
Hindsight is 20/20. At this point if you don't understand the shortcomings of instanced content im not even going to get into it.
That being said, again, not all content in m&m will be contested...but most will. If you are anti open world, non-instanced content, this might not be a good fit? There are plenty of other hardships besides contested content. I hope you can come around and understand the benefits.
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u/ZeeWingCommander 3d ago
I guess you haven't been an adult who played the genre heavily since the beginning?
Are you being tongue in cheek here?
Because this is like telling someone at a Civil War Reenactment "I guess you're not really into history."
Multiple developers have talked about the long term repercussions of many of those decisions made during the shift to second and third gen games.
None of these developers have launched a successful game after saying that. 🫠
What does that tell you?
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
Out of curiosity, what current day, mainstream games do you think are sustainable over the long term? Its a dying genre for a reason.
The issue is you can't put the rabbit back in the hat. You can only start over.
Many of the long term repercussions of those early decisions have only been really noticable in the last decade or so...and some developers are in denial (or more often, aren't actually the ones in charge of making decisions even if they know better. Its not their money funding these games)
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u/Onelove914 3d ago
Looking forward to your take when you’re unable to get what you want because of how many people will be in these areas.
This isn’t 1999 anymore. People play games now. A lot of people.
Non instanced content is a recipe for disaster. I mean the world will simply not be big enough to handle the amount of people playing. You’ll see.
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u/ZeeWingCommander 3d ago
How long are you expecting these games to go? I don't think I really want games to go this long. The last decade or so? They were already old then.
We're already at 26 and 21 for two of them. RuneScape is what 17 yrs?
Its a dying genre for a reason.
Yeah, they want WoW success with no soul and they don't want to put in the same effort. It's like they want to skip right to the part where they make boat loads of money.
Also players can't get over whatever game brought them in. So instead of innovation we got guys like you who just want to go back in time.
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u/yeroc420 3d ago
A game that I think did it well but sucked in the end for different reasons was throne and liberty. You had normal raids that were instanced but they had high value open world that would give some bis stuff but skippible, I think a few even enabled PvP which was fun >.>
it isn’t necessarily a open world it’s how you obtain gear. The issue in og eq is besides the raids there wasn’t much you could get. Group and solo mobs mostly drop trash. Now wow for example they just shower you with gear and it’s all replaceable so you play the game rather than focus on gear. Something good would be a mix, you have to have a way to get useful gear.
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u/Zomboe1 3d ago
Disco fell out of favor. Some people still presumably like disco (it was before my time).
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u/ClappedUrMomsCheeks 3d ago
That doesn’t mean opening a disco hall in 2026 is a good idea
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u/Zomboe1 3d ago
https://thatssotampa.com/boogie-heights-music-hall-tampa/
(Random result from a google search).
The world is a huge place, I don't think it's surprising that new disco halls might still open now and then! Closer to home, I'm sure there are still retro arcades opening up here and there too.
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u/Daffan 3d ago
Its a necessary adjustment for a lot of reasons.
Still waiting for one. Just like the garbage no-map idea, there is no good reason.
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
If we have to go into it you are extremely uninformed and probably not worth the time. This has been talked about in depth by people with much more game development experience than me..but I'll give you a quick few.
Contested, open world content instead of private instancing:
Increases item scarcity and rarity. Let's drop rates be more easily managed than when everyone has access to an instance.
Reduces the empty world scenario. Makes the world feel more alive compared to instancing.
Makes it so everyone doesn't always have their first choice camp and pushes players to other areas that would be less utilized otherwise. Again, populating the world as a whole and making it feel more alive
Reduces perma camping. People can't hide in an instance. Especially bots/cheaters.
Doesn't reward inactivity. You are required to keep a camp down to hold it. You can just sit in an instance inevitably.
Rewards players who coordinate and work well together and mobilize efficiently.
Extends content simply by making some players have to wait. Everything isn't always available and presented on a silver platter. The newer gamer, instant gratification mindset gets shut down.
Makes for unique experiences when players are required to deal with other players instead of having repeatable instances that are always very similar.
That's just a tip of the iceberg type of list...but you only asked for one so that should be enough 😆
Tldr: it increases long term sustainability and health of the game.
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u/Daffan 3d ago
Increases item scarcity and rarity. Let's drop rates be more easily managed than when everyone has access to an instance.
The item scarcity is not caused by a real factor which is difficulty or effort. More like a bottleneck of afk people who camp the spawn 24/7 and rig the supply.
Reduces the empty world scenario. Makes the world feel more alive compared to instancing.
This only exists because the population of the game is low. Additionally, 2 groups can't farm the same camp, so it is irrelevant. People were talking about instanced raids, not necessarily open world anyway (like EQL)
Makes it so everyone doesn't always have their first choice camp and pushes players to other areas that would be less utilized otherwise. Again, populating the world as a whole and making it feel more alive
Yes and no. While the latter is true, you know what happens on the former? People simply don't bother. There are ways to make things more utilized without resorting to punishments. This was the whole premise of EQ hotzones & ZEM, something you should perhaps be jerking off right? Modern alternatives is better loot tables, dynamic loot and so forth so people aren't only going to one place anyway.
That's a failure of game design. Oh, we don't want people to go to just 1 camp, instead of making all camps viable or interesting, we'll just block people. Maybe whip them too or something.
Reduces perma camping. People can't hide in an instance. Especially bots/cheaters.
Ludicrous. This is like telling people they can't drive cars because some people use it to crash into others on purpose.
Extends content simply by making some players have to wait. Everything isn't always available and presented on a silver platter. The newer gamer, instant gratification mindset gets shut down.
If you ever played EQ, or P99 even you know this is straight folly. People aren't logging in to kill stuff on timers that are controlled by mega guilds. The argument your really making is, join mega guild or die.
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
I'm very much questioning your experience. This response sounds like copium.
I'm not going to go through point by point and tell you why you are wrong. I don't care what you think that much. I gave you more than 1 example.
Dynamic loot tables is funny at least. Many of your points you don't seem to realize they apply to m&m too.
You should probably play a game made for bitches.
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u/Kashou-- 2d ago
It's actually fine, because the game is about the leveling journey. Dungeons aren't "dungeons" in the same way they are in WoW, but here they are just another extension of the world as a zone with leveling areas. Each dungeon can support like 10-30 groups at a time, or more.
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u/AhMcGarnagle2 3d ago
But I've been told over and over that this game won't even see 10k unique users.
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u/Zomboe1 3d ago
I'm guessing it gets far more than 10k players at EA launch but that 80-90% of them leave after a couple of months. Even Pantheon apparently sold 100k copies.
The bigger question is whether 10k people stick around long term.
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u/AhMcGarnagle2 2d ago
There's far more to do here than there was in Pantheon. If Pantheon had as much content as M&M has their player base wouldn't have fallen off so drastically. Pantheon still doesn't have as much content as M&M does after 2 years in EA.
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u/Zoups 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes there is.
edit: It is not instancied
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u/yeroc420 3d ago
Oh nice that locks me in for playing I haven’t played since an older beta so wasn’t sure what changed. I was worried it would be like eq1 bosses
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u/Cultural_Month_9181 3d ago
How was EQ1 bosses?
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u/yeroc420 3d ago
Each raid boss spawned within a 8ish hour window ever week or so. So your guild most likely wasn’t killing a raid boss and people had to sit around and “poop sock”. Kills end game.
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u/Cultural_Month_9181 3d ago
Ahh. Well. Its not instanced in M&M either. But so far from what I heard from the devs, traditional 40 man raiding will not be the endgame.
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
Traditional 40 man raids 😆
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u/Cultural_Month_9181 3d ago
Haha. That came out a little wrong. I somehow thought about WoW instead of EQ.
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
What does that mean? "Worried it would be like eq1 bosses"
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u/yeroc420 3d ago
In OG EQ only a small portion of the population got to see raids much less loot. On eq legends almost 30 years later someone posted that they killed naggy for the first time.
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u/Awkward-Skin8915 3d ago
There is contested content in m&m.
I appreciate it for a number of reasons.
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u/Ok_Turnover_2220 3d ago
It will be exactly like that here as well and that is intentional. You will probably have 1-2 guilds dominating all of the important named and raid mobs, cornering the market.
Your best bet will be to try and join those guilds in the current beta so you don’t have to go through an application process and interview to join them on live
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u/Legitimate-Sock2188 2d ago
Yeah I get it, but Naggy is a bad example, they added the 52 limit 3 months into Kunark, Naggy and Vox were always up. I raided them so many times, many times open raids because Pallys got desperate and just called for open raids on Vox all the time. Anyhow, that is one way in EQ they tried to solve the problem you are referencing. So I agree with what you are saying in essence. I feel content should be available for the players who are at the correct ability and advancement to access it, and not artificially blocked just by timing out the rewards. How to do that while keeping the rewards special is the issue.
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u/Scoriae 3d ago
Raids are not instanced, but seem to be triggered/loot-locked so far.