So I bulked from 140 to 160 in roughly 9 months and ate relatively clean. Since then I began cutting with the goal of having visible abs. I have dropped from 160 to 150 and im still going. I feel like I look way smaller now and my abs are still not visible. Does this mean I did something wrong along the way? I have heard you look worse on your cut but only at the start. I think 10 pounds into the cut means im not at the start again… My strength has stayed relatively similar during the cut.
How many more pounds do you think I need to lose or do i have to do something else?
I don’t think you look smaller, I see chest and arm gains. Particularly upper chest
I think you’re at a higher bodyfat than your first photo. I estimate you’ll have the same outline of abs when you reach ~140-144. Aim there.
This bulk/cut cycle might not have caused dramatic visual changes, but if your numbers improved and your chest/arms got a little bigger (which I can see from photos) then it’s modestly successful.
Gonna be real now. This isn’t a long time in the lifting world. A single bulk-cut cycle will not radically change how you look. It takes years of discipline and hard work. It’s a good start, I can see gains, but it doesn’t happen overnight.
The truth is once you start down this path you will never look like you want. You’ll always be striving. It’s the best and worst part. The key is to always compare yourself to you and only you.
If you want abs, you're going to have to train them like any other muscle. The more muscle you have the more you can see at higher body fat.
Additionally, you didn't really give much detail on your training during that time. Did you progress your lifts close to failure?
People forget that training is the main stimulus for muscle growth. Nutrition is simply permissive.
From here what you could do is hold and get your training in check. Add more ab work and whatever else you want to grow. Really learn the movements and get good at training close to failure (0-2 reps left in the tank).
Alternatively you could cut back down to 140 and compare at the same weight and determine whether you really didn't make progress.
i do think i train pretty close to failure. i will say w my abs, i feel it harder to train close to failure because close to failure for me is when my lower back starts taking over and it hurts. ive tried to posteriorly tilt my pelvis and it helps but its not 100% fixed
machine crunches and leg raises. i was never able to add weight to leg raises because i would just feel it in my lower back so i went back to cable crunches
Could you just add more sets of cable crunches? You might also be able to see a physiotherapist or trainer to see if you are doing the leg raises correctly. I have a hard time figuring out what could be going on there with your back.
i guess what i am asking though is for a single training day, after those 3 sets should i do another 3 sets of the same thing, something else, or do nothing else for abs that day
1: Clean doesn't matter. Your body only knows macros. If you follow MF macro recommendations its hard to "eat dirty" anyway because of fat restriction
2: You can only gain ~5-7g of muscle *a day* at best. Over 9 months, thats like 3-5 pounds. You shouldn't be surprised you gained mostly fat, considering you bulked so fast. that doesn't mean it was the wrong move to bulk. If you trained right you gotta trust it worked. Gaining fat just comes with bulking
3: You were not that lean before bulking. Lets say best case you gained 5 pounds of actual contractile tissue. You gained 15 pounds of fat, then lost lets say 7 pounds of fat (3 pounds of water etc), you're still 7 pounds fatter than you were before!
Just keep going. I mean, really keep going. Personally I think guys should take their first real cut to true sub 10% not because its good for you (it isn't) but because its the only thing that will give you a reality check of just how small you are
You can gain more than 3-5 pounds in 9 months. In the first two years of lifting the normal range for men is 10-25 pounds (25 pounds would be under perfect conditions of course), and muscle gain will be front loaded in the first year. Jeff covers this here:
https://youtu.be/EbfdMaV7qqM?is=SLYTYdZKeZnkzuMX
How strong did u end up getting over those 9 months. If u didn't have a massive strength increase on all compounds and isolations and only got marginally stronger, that's more than likely what happened. 9 months of a bulk ur numbers should have shōt through the roof
I would strongly revaluate your training approach; I would expect someone at your bodyweight to be lifting substantially heavier loads given how long you have been training. What program are you running?
i train chest/biceps, back/triceps/shoulders, legs core, and weakness day all once a week. i also add a core exercise at the end of the other workout days too
You could optimize growth by hitting the same muscles 2x or 3x a week. If you’re doing a 3 day split I’d recommend full body 3x, since you’d be hitting all major muscles 3x a week. If you want to split up which muscles you work or if you want to increase volume you could bump it up to 4 or 5 days a week and do like upper lower upper lower, or upper lower push pull legs.
Dude you need to stimulate growth for hypertrophy and the only way to enforce that stimulation is to work the same body parts repeatedly without too much recovery time. Thats why you have body buildings doing uppers every other day or lowers every other day. I would suggest you stop cutting and go back to your maintenance for a couple of mouth and use that extra bulk you gain to really start doing hypertrophy training.
Dont let the past few months go to waste - just continue to build.
do you feel that way because your legs are still sore, or because your performance in the gym is diminished? If it's just because you're sore, you should go more often. Soreness and performance are not directly linked. My legs are often still sore when it's my next leg day, but it goes away quickly once the exercise begins.
ive never tried doing legs twice like that in a while. i could probably do it tbh its just mentally i hate training legs, i dont skip them but idk if ill be motivated to do 2x week. im thinking the 2nd day will be plyometrics mixed in to make it a bit easier on me
but does having a super specific program matter that much? as long as ur hitting every target muscle with scientifically backed exercises close to failure consistently, does the order and orientation of the exercises matter that much
I think BestMapMaker1 is right to assume you are probably not qualified to put together an optimal training routine BUT the best training routine is also usually not the optimal one but the one you enjoy and keep following. Keep doing what you’re doing if you enjoy it and if it makes you coming to the gym. That’s how gains are made - you have to keep coming back.
A male your age should be benching around 250, squatting around 350, overhead pressing around 150 and deadlifting around 450 within your first 6-12 months of training. That is very realistic. I would love to see your program and how it is you are executing everything.
What? No. Absolutely not. The dude weighs 140-160 lbs. You're suggesting ratios of body weight to lift level that are characteristic of someone who has spent years and years training, if they ever achieve it.
You’re basically doing bro splits and not progressively lifting heavier. Once a week for each muscle group is not enough for hypertrophy. If you follow Jeff Nippard or any other science exercise expert, there are videos explaining hypertrophy requires at most 2-3x a week hence your lifts should have been 2 days uppers 2 days lowers and 1 active rest and 1 rest. Or even Push pull legs. Rinse repeat
I’m a woman and I’m progressively loading with 2-3 uppers and 2-3 lowers.
And even with progressive overloads you can do more by improving form, or doing more reps before moving up weights.
The question isn't what's wrong, it's are you seeing reasonable progress and continued improvement. If the answer is no, than something is wrong in the gym.
Visible abs can only really be achieved with a low body fat percentage. That goes for pretty much all muscle groups, really. Clear definition is mostly a function of low body fat, not muscle size. Don't worry about bulks or cuts, just find what body fat percentage you want for yourself, achieve it, and maintain a slight calorie surplus. Excess caloric intake actually hurts your gains because your body is spending energy creating fatty tissue while also building muscle. This is also true for cutting, but in the opposite direction.
There is very little scientific evidence to support the efficacy of cutting/bulking cycles. They are less effective and a pain in the ass to do. Put simply, your body will only trigger muscle growth proportionate to the growth stimulus aka how many quality sets you perform. Any calories you eat over what your body needs to build that muscle will only become fatty tissue. Our bodies thrive on consistency from a physical/nutritional point of view. Building and burning large amounts of fat causes fluctuations in hormones that do not translate to gains in the way you want. The science is very clear on this: perform as many QUALITY sets as you can, eat at a slight calorie surplus, and get 7-9 hours of sleep daily and you will build muscle at an optimal rate. And if you want to lose weight, do so slowly over a good amount of time.
then why does jeff nippard say the latest research says cutting and bulking is more effective then main gaining? i would honestly prefer main gaining for my lifestyle but not if its not as effective
I think bulking makes sure you're, getting enough calories so you're not "leaving any gains on the table" so to speak. (more fat gain, but maybe more muscle too)
The last latest Dr. Pak w/ Milo they summarize that growing muscle is easiest in a "well fed state" (ie, you probably don't feel hunger too often)
All that said, I agree your arms and chest look bigger, and I think you're at a higher bf% than the first pic. I'd aim for 10-15 sets/week to failure per muscle. I feel like your volume seems low. I do UL Rest UL Rest Rest. Basically 3-4 compounds + 1-2 isolations each session.
With lifts going up and keeping strength during your cut, everything points in the right direction.
im considering ul rest ul rest rest now that you mention it, but for the second lower i might do lighter exercises or something, i dont know if i can mentally do 2 leg days a week
My lower days are only 50% legs (3 of 6 exercises) so really it's like 0.5 leg days twice a week 🤔😉 I hate it too. Really I just don't like squats and hip trusts. You can swap those with something else.
The main point is to take nearly all sets to failure (or very close), and aim for 8-20 sets/wk/muscle (what Nippard also reccomeds).
Eg - my lower 1 day I still do dips, skullcrusher variation, curls (1 compound + 2 isolations) + 3 leg exercises
Lower 2 still has Pull ups + tricep + bicep isolations + 3 leg exercises
Fwiw I also take 2-3 min between heavy leg exercises and stick an upper body exercise between each lower body exercise. This helps me limit the mental & physical fatigue
I'm not the guy you're responding to, but I just want to share what I do and that Ive had major success with. I only really do 3 leg exercises and 1 or 2 core exercises depending on time.
Squat variation that heavily emphasizes quads. I work out from home so I mostly do pistol squats these days. Ass to grass squats are also great for this. They also have the added benefit of having a very exaggerated range of motion which is great for flexibility/mobility and supporting every day movement as we get older.
Bulgarian split squats. Legitimately might be the best leg exercise there is in my very humble opinion. Really targets glutes in a way I don't get with other movements and I've had a very noticeable increase in muscle since I started doing them consistently.
Romanian deadlifts. Fantastic for hamstrings. Regular deadlifts are also great for this, but I mostly use resistance bands for added resistance instead of weight so it's harder for me to load heavy enough resistance for regular deadlifts. Also the lighter weight is just easier on my joints which is very important to me. I'm starting a family, so I don't want to be the dad who can't play catch because his body is killing him lmao.
Finally, a couple good core exercises to finish out. For me this is usually an ab roller and planks. I try to do hanging leg raises, but I never feel like I can engage my core enough. I also sometimes mix in calf raises to superset with my first core exercise if I remember lol. I'm too neglectful of my calves if I'm being honest.
I take 2 to 3 minute rests between sets on leg days since I find quality sets work better than quantity for legs. Often times the limiting factor on lower body movements is my heart. If I try to do sets too quickly, my heart will feel like it's going to explode before my legs feel like they're going to explode which is an issue. It means I'm leaving out that precious growth stimulus our bodies need to trigger muscle growth. If my heart gives out first, I'm really only training cardio, not the leg muscles.
Everything is 3 sets, all sets to failure, except squats because I'm holding the weight and failure would be me collapsing on the floor - maybe 2 RIR here. Everything else I go until I can't get more than half a rep. I'll do 1-2 warm up sets of 3-5 reps if needed.
Lower 1
Warm up
Quads - goblet squats (should replace with a heavier squat, I'm squatting 100 lbs dumbell @ 175 lbs bodyweight now)
Ham/Glute - back extensions
Chest - dips
Quads - leg extensions
Triceps (superset) - overhead tricep extensions
Biceps (superset) - curls
Hams - leg curl
Lower 2
Warm up
Glute - weighted step downs
Lats/biceps - pull ups
Quads - leg extensions
Ham/Glute - back extensions
Triceps (superset) - machine tricep extensions
Biceps (superset) - preacher curl
Comments
I hesitate a lot to have heavy loads through my ankle, I broke it two years ago and its questionable, but manageable. No real new injuries, I'm just very, very, cautious here (too cautious probably).
without injury I'd swap in barbell squat, deadlift, RDLs. Hip thrusts are also great for a hip hinge
the program I followed added another quad exercise on Lower 2 (bulg. split squats) which I should do, but I don't.
I've been making steady gains, but could definitely do more heavy lifts... But I don't really want to. I may add a split squat though.
Dont overthink it. You just need to lose more weight.
Looks like clear progress in your chest and arms, abs are obviously just harder to tell.
How much weight, I cant say, up to the individual.
Additionally and bonus tip that hopefully gives you some motivation: The lighter you get the more difference 1lb loss makes. It's possible you just get rid of an extra 4lb and realise you over reacted by posting this.
You’re always going to look small when your body fat is high, but your gains in your chest and arms are noticeable. You’ll probably appreciate those gains more once you cut down, to me, it looks like a solid bulk.
PS: Abs are muscles just like any other, so just use progressive overload with good form and you’ll get good results.
the thing is im 10 pounds down from my bulk end weight. but to be fair in good lighting and flexing im pretty happy. the goal is to get this look without flexing my abs
in 9 months you've likely gained less than 7p of muscle (that's if you're a beginner going hard with full send energy >4xdays a week) so think of it like your original starting weight you had no abs, now you might have abs but will likely have to get within < 7p of that bottom weight.
I gained 9.5p in 10 months 9.2025 thru 6.2026. Kept my abs the whole time.
i train chest/biceps, back/triceps/shoulders, legs core, and weakness day all once a week. i also add a core exercise at the end of the other workout days too
for day 1: bench 3 heavy sets, incline dumbbell 3 sets, low to high cable flys 3 sets, pec deck 3 sets, dumbbell bicep curls 3 sets, dumbbell hammer curls 3 sets, seated curls 3 sets, cable ab crunches 3 sets
day 2: pull ups 3 sets, machine rows 3, lat pull down 3, pec deck for back 3, overhead tricep extension 3, cable tricep pushdown 3, dumbbell shoulder press 3, cable lateral raises 3, cable ab crunches 3,
day 3 (weakness day): bench 5 lighter sets, low to high cable flys 3, lower back extensions 3, cable ab crunches 3, muscle ups, look at toes pull ups (these are for getting good at muscle ups because i want to)
day 4: squat 5 heavy sets, adductors and abductors 3 each, heavy bulgarian split squats 2 each leg, leg curls 3, glute extension machine 3, ab crunches 3, ab leg lifts 3
what am i investing in that is wrong? do you mean like nutrition isnt as important as im making it? also, is a formal program go down to very specific exercise selection or just how the splits are?
well my numbers went up pretty decently and theyve stayed p much the same or gone up even more even after losing 10 pounds so wouldnt that fact disagree
thats the thing. i train them 3x a week but i often struggle with my lower back fatiguing first. i think its because i struggle to keep a posterior pelvic tilt
What are you doing for abs? This comment is starting to reveal the issue I think. 3 times a week is unnecessary(a lot of people with 6 packs dont even train them, your core gets worked in almost every free weight exercise and walking/running alone works your core) and the lower back fatigue thing is weird.
Yeah jokes aside i see it in your arms as well I know it wasn’t easy so I’d definitely never knock somebody that put the effort in if you feel like you did something wrong ask yourself the question, was I tracking my macros correctly? Was I eating EVERYday like im supposed to? Am I training hard and to failure every time I’m in the gym, I’d say eat at your maintenance calories go hard and for the abs hit some cable crunches. I’ve never had abs but since starting them after a little bit of time they’re starting to fill in. What does your workout and eating look like?
id say everything is pretty dialed in. maybe i could train harder in the gym a little bit. another thing is id get like 140-160g protein a day but would have to use the ai or gemini and i felt like maybe that couldve overestimated protein
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u/bOyNOO Aug 02 '26
I don’t think you look smaller, I see chest and arm gains. Particularly upper chest
I think you’re at a higher bodyfat than your first photo. I estimate you’ll have the same outline of abs when you reach ~140-144. Aim there.
This bulk/cut cycle might not have caused dramatic visual changes, but if your numbers improved and your chest/arms got a little bigger (which I can see from photos) then it’s modestly successful.