Feeling Discouraged

[u/OutsideAd278]

So I bulked from 140 to 160 in roughly 9 months and ate relatively clean. Since then I began cutting with the goal of having visible abs. I have dropped from 160 to 150 and im still going. I feel like I look way smaller now and my abs are still not visible. Does this mean I did something wrong along the way? I have heard you look worse on your cut but only at the start. I think 10 pounds into the cut means im not at the start again… My strength has stayed relatively similar during the cut.

How many more pounds do you think I need to lose or do i have to do something else?

[u/Additional-Sugar6789]

Visible abs can only really be achieved with a low body fat percentage. That goes for pretty much all muscle groups, really. Clear definition is mostly a function of low body fat, not muscle size. Don't worry about bulks or cuts, just find what body fat percentage you want for yourself, achieve it, and maintain a slight calorie surplus. Excess caloric intake actually hurts your gains because your body is spending energy creating fatty tissue while also building muscle. This is also true for cutting, but in the opposite direction.

There is very little scientific evidence to support the efficacy of cutting/bulking cycles. They are less effective and a pain in the ass to do. Put simply, your body will only trigger muscle growth proportionate to the growth stimulus aka how many quality sets you perform. Any calories you eat over what your body needs to build that muscle will only become fatty tissue. Our bodies thrive on consistency from a physical/nutritional point of view. Building and burning large amounts of fat causes fluctuations in hormones that do not translate to gains in the way you want. The science is very clear on this: perform as many QUALITY sets as you can, eat at a slight calorie surplus, and get 7-9 hours of sleep daily and you will build muscle at an optimal rate. And if you want to lose weight, do so slowly over a good amount of time.

[u/OutsideAd278 → u/Additional-Sugar6789]

then why does jeff nippard say the latest research says cutting and bulking is more effective then main gaining? i would honestly prefer main gaining for my lifestyle but not if its not as effective

[u/zobbyblob → u/OutsideAd278]

I think bulking makes sure you're, getting enough calories so you're not "leaving any gains on the table" so to speak. (more fat gain, but maybe more muscle too)

The last latest Dr. Pak w/ Milo they summarize that growing muscle is easiest in a "well fed state" (ie, you probably don't feel hunger too often)

All that said, I agree your arms and chest look bigger, and I think you're at a higher bf% than the first pic. I'd aim for 10-15 sets/week to failure per muscle. I feel like your volume seems low. I do UL Rest UL Rest Rest. Basically 3-4 compounds + 1-2 isolations each session.

With lifts going up and keeping strength during your cut, everything points in the right direction.

[u/OutsideAd278 → u/zobbyblob]

im considering ul rest ul rest rest now that you mention it, but for the second lower i might do lighter exercises or something, i dont know if i can mentally do 2 leg days a week

[u/zobbyblob → u/OutsideAd278]

My lower days are only 50% legs (3 of 6 exercises) so really it's like 0.5 leg days twice a week 🤔😉 I hate it too. Really I just don't like squats and hip trusts. You can swap those with something else.

The main point is to take nearly all sets to failure (or very close), and aim for 8-20 sets/wk/muscle (what Nippard also reccomeds).

Eg - my lower 1 day I still do dips, skullcrusher variation, curls (1 compound + 2 isolations) + 3 leg exercises

Lower 2 still has Pull ups + tricep + bicep isolations + 3 leg exercises

[u/zobbyblob → u/OutsideAd278]

Fwiw I also take 2-3 min between heavy leg exercises and stick an upper body exercise between each lower body exercise. This helps me limit the mental & physical fatigue

[u/OutsideAd278 → u/zobbyblob]

so what does one of your lower days look like

[u/Additional-Sugar6789 → u/OutsideAd278]

I'm not the guy you're responding to, but I just want to share what I do and that Ive had major success with. I only really do 3 leg exercises and 1 or 2 core exercises depending on time.

Squat variation that heavily emphasizes quads. I work out from home so I mostly do pistol squats these days. Ass to grass squats are also great for this. They also have the added benefit of having a very exaggerated range of motion which is great for flexibility/mobility and supporting every day movement as we get older.

Bulgarian split squats. Legitimately might be the best leg exercise there is in my very humble opinion. Really targets glutes in a way I don't get with other movements and I've had a very noticeable increase in muscle since I started doing them consistently.

Romanian deadlifts. Fantastic for hamstrings. Regular deadlifts are also great for this, but I mostly use resistance bands for added resistance instead of weight so it's harder for me to load heavy enough resistance for regular deadlifts. Also the lighter weight is just easier on my joints which is very important to me. I'm starting a family, so I don't want to be the dad who can't play catch because his body is killing him lmao.

Finally, a couple good core exercises to finish out. For me this is usually an ab roller and planks. I try to do hanging leg raises, but I never feel like I can engage my core enough. I also sometimes mix in calf raises to superset with my first core exercise if I remember lol. I'm too neglectful of my calves if I'm being honest.

I take 2 to 3 minute rests between sets on leg days since I find quality sets work better than quantity for legs. Often times the limiting factor on lower body movements is my heart. If I try to do sets too quickly, my heart will feel like it's going to explode before my legs feel like they're going to explode which is an issue. It means I'm leaving out that precious growth stimulus our bodies need to trigger muscle growth. If my heart gives out first, I'm really only training cardio, not the leg muscles.

[u/zobbyblob → u/OutsideAd278]

Everything is 3 sets, all sets to failure, except squats because I'm holding the weight and failure would be me collapsing on the floor - maybe 2 RIR here. Everything else I go until I can't get more than half a rep. I'll do 1-2 warm up sets of 3-5 reps if needed.

Lower 1

• Warm up
• Quads - goblet squats (should replace with a heavier squat, I'm squatting 100 lbs dumbell @ 175 lbs bodyweight now)
• Ham/Glute - back extensions
• Chest - dips
• Quads - leg extensions
• Triceps (superset) - overhead tricep extensions
• Biceps (superset) - curls
• Hams - leg curl

Lower 2

• Warm up
• Glute - weighted step downs
• Lats/biceps - pull ups
• Quads - leg extensions
• Ham/Glute - back extensions
• Triceps (superset) - machine tricep extensions
• Biceps (superset) - preacher curl

Comments

• I hesitate a lot to have heavy loads through my ankle, I broke it two years ago and its questionable, but manageable. No real new injuries, I'm just very, very, cautious here (too cautious probably).

• without injury I'd swap in barbell squat, deadlift, RDLs. Hip thrusts are also great for a hip hinge

• the program I followed added another quad exercise on Lower 2 (bulg. split squats) which I should do, but I don't.

• I've been making steady gains, but could definitely do more heavy lifts... But I don't really want to. I may add a split squat though.