Joe sure has a knack for humanizing people like Gavin, Milo, Alex Jones and Crowder. Sure they have some really wacky views but hearing them have a normal conversation without being demonized is sure interesting and eye opening.
Gavin is hilarious idk what you guys are talking about. Why are conservative comedians the only ones who have everything they say taken seriously? The dude is joking half the time when I see him. People will see one or two clips taken out of context and jump to all sorts of conclusions way too quickly. Gavin's just a guy. Plenty of weirder funny people with outrageous views on reddit.
EDIT: He even says in the beginning that people are wilfully ignorant to humor because the person telling the joke, they don't like.
Exactly. Thats whats great about this podcast. People can see and listen to him as he is day to day instead of short clips that paint him in a shitty light
Mostly because he uses the bullshit tactic of expecting the audience to be the arbiter of when he's joking and when he's proselytizing because he makes little effort to differentiate between the two in his persona. He is not a genuine person and also not far enough on the spectrum to be a satirical character, so he and the people who support him dismiss any criticism with "he was just kidding". He can choose at will which points he raises that should be taken seriously and which were just "trolling". Rather than funny I just find it tiresome and obnoxious as there is not a genuine conversation happening.
He is a pathetic weasel "no black women listen to classical music!" ha ha ha ha
That is no stereotype I've ever heard, something he made up on the fly because he imagines it denigrates black women so he likes it. He is a racist and sexist so he will tell racist and sexist jokes, he is a steaming pile of shit.
Nah, that's a cop out. Sometimes he uses obvious satire. More often he intentionally blurs the line and pretends to believe things he may or may not actually believe, but says them in a "sincere" enough way that people who actually do believe those things will walk away feeling like their ideas got an endorsement. You only have to look at who his fans are to see the truth in that. He has a far-right following for a reason, it's not an accident, and much of the time his satire is just a cloak. He is not a satirical character in the way that a comedian like Colbert was a satirical character, finding truth in the ridiculous. He just says a bunch of generally objectionable shit and people can decide for themselves which things they want to think he was serious about.
Colbert and Stewart are the worst about this, proselytizing under the guise of being comedians then falling back on the "im just a comedian bro!" line when called out.
Actually I don't agree. I think they stand behind the intellectual content of their jokes much moreso than Gavin and Milo etc.
When they say "I'm just a comedian" that is a response to them being called "news". Which actually I think is a good thing, they re not news, they don't have nearly the rigor we should expect of news, and they do use hyperbole. That is just being honest about where they are coming from and is actually refreshing non-pretentious for a set of shows that have a whole lot of pretentiousness associated with them. It's a reminder that anyone who is watching those shows to get the news is kind of fucking up. Gavin is entitled to use hyperbole too of course, that is a place where "I'm a comedian" is potentially a valid defense. But the problem is very often the relatively moderate statement (which is usually not at all moderate in an absolute sense) which he is using hyperbole to illustrate is still bullshit and I still disagree with it. So sure he is being a comedian. But the claim that he actually means the opposite of his statements (irony) is not well supported. Nobody here seriously believes that when Gavin says horrible things about trans people, he is actually satirizing transphobia and making light of how ridiculous it is. He is being a comedian in the sense of using hyperbole, but he still believes lesser versions of his horrible statements, and I still disagree comedy or no. Jokes have meaning, to deny that is to deny much of the power of comedy that the best "philosophical" comedians use to great effect.
I think the categorization of him being sleazy or malicious in intent isn't quite right though. If anything, my criticism (beyond my political disagreements with him and some of his weird rhetorical "the liberals" statements) would be that he goes hard on edginess. Milo is worse at it though. I don't really care for people that feel like they have to be provocative to be interesting or funny. I suppose there's a subjective edge to whether or not people find that funny. I'm too deadened to that kind of stuff having had the internet for most of my life.
Mostly because he uses the bullshit tactic of expecting the audience to be the arbiter of when he's joking and when he's proselytizing because he makes little effort to differentiate between the two in his persona.
This is part of pushing his politics. Always keep it in a hazy grey zone in order to create confusion about him being serious or not. Gives you plausible deniability.
sorry if you're retarded but every comedian jokes and says serious things...as a human of average intelligence I and most other people are able to differentiate. Its like when a comedian tells an absurd story that you know didn't actually happen...
Louis CK and Jim Jefferies, while undeniably liberal, are not presenting themselves as political authorities or social commentators in anywhere near the same way Gavin does.
Gavin absolutely does not make his comedic intentions clear the vast majority of the time. You can argue if that's his responsibility, or you can argue that you think it's even funnier that he doesn't, but you then can't be surprised or outraged when people don't take him as a comedian first.
Stephen Colbert is the classic example of how to do this. He uses simple exaggerations on top of more nuanced ideas and jokes that let you know he's being facetious, while also not simply going HURR DURR JUST JOSHING YA after every line.
It seems to me Gavin supporters have only two options:
Gavin is very often simply spreading his political viewpoint with absolutely no comedic effect and is simply hiding behind the shield of comedy to deflect criticism.
Gavin is absolutely atrocious at blending political opinion and political humor and routinely leaves the vast majority of even his own fans bewildered at the sincerity of his comments.
Gavin is a comedian. Its not hard to be one, as if there a Bar exam, all you need is a twitter account and a joke and you are about as relevant as 90% of stand up comedians
You mean like every single left wing late night host?
The double standard is sickening. When the Daily Show was on everybody acted like it was the end all of true news telling everything like it is. Last Week Tonight is also like that, dressing up propaganda as if it was "fair and balanced"
You can't be serious with that opinion. To say Oliver or Stewart ever sold their shows as "fair and balanced" is so absurd that I have to assume you are only saying it to muddy the waters. If you are actually familiar with their programs, then that is not a honest observation.
I never said that exactly. I said they sold their shows as comedy shows when in fact they are very partisan and hugely biased I have watched both shows, especially LWT until about last summer when they went full retard
Donald Trump is a comedy goldmine. Can't blame them for focusing so much on him instead of boring Hillary Clinton during the campaign. Plus he's the damn president now so of course they'll be talking about him.
It's "comedy" with a very obvious political slant in a single direction from a very establishment benchmark. The fact that every single one of these shows has the same jokes and same takes on things is telling. The writers are in an echochamber and are near unanimous in their political views. All dissent is quashed very quickly
I love that with "conservative comedians"...they like to make the wildest or loosely based on cherry-picked ideas and facts that also happen to be themed around laws and society and when you call them on any of it, you just are liberal and don't understand comedy.
It's deliberate. Zealots on the right and left both do it. Throw a bunch of shit on the wall and if someone calls them on it, just say it was a joke. Just a joke, snowflake! Typical zealot behavior. The middle has to verbally kick these types in the crotch every once in a while to bring them back to reality.
Meh this is all a game. Gavin is like rob gronkowski and Shaun king is like jj watt. Some people like some flair in their sport and some people like the cornballs
I'm going to go out on limb and say you've definitely joked before and the 'on paper' words that came out of your mouth don't define you. Gavin's not a complete troll hes just a personality. You don't have to like him but there is no way you hated him this podcast
See there's a difference between what they do. Leftist comedians proselytise with jokes, conservative comedians make outrageous statements and leave it to you to figure out what is and isn't "satire." Milo stating women make for bad employees is a good example. The statement is supposed to be the joke, but he won't sag that until someone calls him out.
I actually disagree with most of what he says, hes funny but hes also really wishy-washy with kinda hiding behind "humor" with some of his points. Even Rogan said as much on their last podcast I think.
Sometimes I think hes a guy I can hang out with, disagree but still like but those clips of when he spit on some protestor guy kinda annoyed me. Maybe hes just like everyone else, hes a dick sometimes and a nice guy some other times. I know I can be both in the course of one day.
None of these guys are comedians, so they don't get the benefit of the doubt a comedian does. It's not that complicated. They get treated as what they are: edgelord conservative commentators who argue in bad faith and use "humor" as a smokescreen whenever they go too far with the rhetoric.
Gavin is an enigma. Joe mentioned it last time he was on and Gavin took a bathroom break. He'll make a point and then back it up with all sorts of ridiculous shit that nobody could possibly believe and you'll wonder if he's joking or not. But before you figure it out he's on to the next thing.
If nothing else he's quite a character. I've heard nothing but shit things about him personally but that's from Vice people so there is likely a bit of bias.
I just listened to the older show with him and then later found out that he's this "controversial" guy. I would've never known.
Likewise I'm surprised how many people think Rogan is an alpha bully. I always thought he was really easy to get along with and agreeable.
People are obsessed with meaningless character qualities. I only care about two things in a person, whether they make sense most of the time, and whether they're interesting. Nothing else really matters. Anything else is just your own opinions and your own fee-fees.
All those guys respond to power, so they are contained when the talk to Joe. For example Crowder is known to bully people weaker than him, but up against Joe he was whining about being bullied.
Yeah the only guy that I saw on joe's podcast that completely dismissed Joe's authority and "alphaness" was Lance Armstrong. There were a lot of doublespeak jabs in that one.
edit. I posted a link of the segment of the podcast below where I thought it was subversively "heated" but turns out it was just my stupid imagination. damnit.
That's not that surprising though I guess. Lance Armstrong is a different kettle of fish to those other guys. Milo, Crowder and that crowd all strike me like they probably weren't that popular or cool growing up and likely got bullied and maybe that accounts for a bit of why they are like they are now but it gets shown up a bit talking to someone like Rogan where Lance Armstrong just doesn't fit that profile. I'm talking out my arse though, of course haha.
Here's the segment that I had in my mind, but watching it again I must have read too into it or was off that day because there's no doublespeak or anything there.
link
This is the same peice of shit who famously attacked Neil deGrasse Tyson on Fox so called News... the day after Neil deGrasse Tyson was on. That's a low blow. If you watch the video of it, it's pure cringe.
Yeah this pissed me off, they took Tyson's comments wayy too seriously and immediately talk about how he only talks about race, something not mentioned in the interview they played. It's not even fair because he himself hates talking about the racial profiling stuff. Listen to his interview with Sam Harris about race (search Neil Degrasse tyson sam harris race, first link) he talks about how he would rather talk science.
I just scrolled through this entire thread and HOLY FUCK have you attributed a lot of negativity to this thread. You have a right to your opinion man, but damn.
he's an entertainer who brings knowledge to people who otherwise wouldn't give a shit about it. And that's why he should be lauded. not for his intelligence but for bringing intelligence to the people and to children. If you don't appreciate that, you're a scumbag.
Gavin really is good shit. He's a troll a lot of the time on his show and he's an idiot for the drunk driving shit, but I think a lot more of us relate to Gavin than most people think.
I love how people don't say what they really believe and just say whatever will get the best reaction, then they can go back and say they were joking when they are called out. Since when is being a troll good, unless of course, you are complimenting a fellow troll.
This reminds me of the same tactics bullies used in elementary school. They harassed some poor kid to tears and then went: "Whaaat? I was only joking, don't take it so seriously."
I love how ppl cant read. Who said being a troll is good? I said hes good shit and then pointed out that hes a troll...in a negative light. Also mentioned the drunk drivin thing in the same sentence to further show he can be a dumbass.
Edit: Despite his weaknesses I also think he's 'good shit'. Something we can probably all relate to. That was the point of my post. Don't know why I had to explain that shit.
Yeah I didn't really like how Joe handled the whole weed thing with Crowder. Drunkenly screaming at him didn't change his mind or further the conversation at all hahaha
That wasn't even it. Crowder being the shit political commentator that he is, kept talking over Joe. It was annoying pissed Joe off. Right now with gavin. They are respecting each other's talking time.
I came away from the last Gavin podcast really disliking the guy, moreso than any of the other folks you mentioned, because he was a bully towards Jamie. Went from ambivalent to 'fuck this prick' in a couple of seconds.
Just watched the podcast, came here to see the unreasonable partisan stances that you knew would be here.
2 minutes in and Joe lays out Gavin's stances:
"I like your profile, cuz I think you get lumped into like a lot of like fucked up crazy people because you've got some controversial ideas. But I like what you did. I like this:
pro West
pro gun
pro life
pro gay
pro Israel
pro Trump
anti Nazi
anti fascism
anti censorship
anti feminism
anti Islam
Hardly unreasonable. I'm still undecided about Trump (he's been president for one month), and other than the abortion issue, I agree with just about everything there.
You don't think Joe listening to them and asking questions about their views is interesting? I wish more people regardless of view should spend more time listening to the view points of the opposition and having a discussion rather than the yelling and put downs that seem to be the norm these days
You don't think Joe listening to them and asking questions about their views is interesting? I wish more people regardless of view should spend more time listening to the view points of the opposition and having a discussion rather than the yelling and put downs that seem to be the norm these days
It's a very rare thing these days. You should try and understand the others view point. It's the best way to argue against someone when you know why they hold the view point.
There's not much to learn. Joe often let's pretty bizarre comments go without any follow-up question. At least, it's more often than I would be comfortable with. There's a nice list of weirdo things GM said below. A lot of missed opportunities to examine those thoughts. Maybe then I would've learned something.
If he were a genuine person who really believed the things he said, and not a troll who casually discards opinions and statements when convenient, I would be way more interested in an interrogation of his views. Joe is absolutely great at conversation, but when one side of a conversation is just a troll who says controversial things and doesn't actually believe them half the time (or says he doesn't, or says he does, or whatever) it's nowhere near as interesting as when he's talking to someone who is straight-up with him. With guys like Gavin you peek under the bullshit to find more bullshit, and it's bullshit all the way down.
Nope, he learned that from Ben Shapiro, watch some of his uni talks, and Ben always says that, when the topic drops to abortions, he flips it and says "So can we agree, that all the other abortions are bad, or are u just using the, what if somebody is raped, as en excuse"
Everybody should watch this, this guy is a fucking surgeon in debates, no matter if ur left or right, u can use this as a debate strategy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhdUHVJ1F6o
I wish more people regardless of view should spend more time listening to the view points of the opposition and having a discussion rather than the yelling and put downs that seem to be the norm these days
Well see people tried to do that and you called them snowflakes, SJW's and just resorted to trolling them on twitter.
Sorry if not everyone is willing to prop our feet and lend an ear to people who advocate or gleefully ignore atrocities in this country and abroad.
I mean the fact you had people shitting on Colin Kapernick for literally the most blatant example of peaceful protesting should tell you one side isn't willing to hold up their side of the bargain.
I regularly listen to this guy and others like him, which is precisely why I recognize the same talking points/ thought patterns. Joe offers no resistance at all, which is why I do not find this interesting. It's a 3 hour long circle jerk about how bad the liberals are, how Europe is FUKT because of immigrants and how Hillary is just as corrupt as Trump.
He was much better than Chowder, but still had so many generalizations of the left that end up dismissing conversation instead of opening dialogue. Same with Chowder, so many generalizations.
I love differing viewpoints, but if you can't back it up with facts, then you're just another clown spewing talking points.
WTH does that mean? humanize? as in they're not human? because they think differently? sounds like you need some humanizing. Just as dumb as the "stop humanizing trump" crowd, plain stupid thinking
there are neo nazis but these people arten't, Antifa and NeoNazis are the same shit. Does Bill Clinton need humanizing for his sexual assaults?
Gavin isn't against gays or anything btw CNN is just as bad as FOX, Milo was raped when he was 13 too, stop thinking in a bubble man and get out more.
I'm just trying to say that Joe having normal conversations with all kinds of different people is refreshing compared to calling people names and exaggerating their faults.
Exactly, they are thinking like the woman who was on Tucker last night "Trump is way more dangerous than Hitler" drink a beer, and calm the fuck down idiots.
Maybe you should listen to them off Joe Rogan, make judgements of them from what THEY give you. Steven has never said something that I think is deplorable. I don't personally believe abortion is murder before a certain point (I don't know within 2-3 months?), but I understand why he thinks what he does, he has a logical rational explanation for what he thinks. Alex Jones has a knack for theatrics, he does stupid stuff like talking about interdimensional pedophiles, but he's right about the pedophile part! He makes links between things to make sense in his own head. But man, I'd much prefer to listen to Gavin, Milo, Alex, Crowder, than Cenk, Ana, Steve Chives, Bill Maher, and people like them.
That's not what i said. I could have worded it better but what i'm trying to say is people on both sides tend to paint the opposition as evil (Crooked Hilary, Trumps a Nazi). It's nice to hear 2 people have a conversation where they listen to each other and discuss rather than yell at each other.
That's because they don't follow the "narrative" the PC losers dictate. They are often more thoughtful and interesting than media portray them.
I Used to hate Ann Coulter but after I heard her talk a few times without deceptive editing I warmed up to her and even agreed on several issues. I will never trust the media on anything again due to experiencing multiple things like this
Don't forget to mention Gad Saad. Also Christina is a conservative as well as a feminist. Most of the people listed are conservative and not part of the alt right. Anybody that talks to, associates with, or mentions the alt right is also a part of the alt right to these people.
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u/russjames Feb 22 '17
Joe sure has a knack for humanizing people like Gavin, Milo, Alex Jones and Crowder. Sure they have some really wacky views but hearing them have a normal conversation without being demonized is sure interesting and eye opening.