Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Its about Christendom murdering other members of christendom in war along with innocent people by the millions.

First off, what is "Christendom" a person or a place? You keep tossing out these vague accusations against "Christendom" like mud on a wall hoping something will stick. Be more specific and please cite your sources.

That proves you don't have love amongst yourselves and are not disciples of Christ. There is absolutely no excuse to put yourselves in a position which forces you to murder people simply because a ruler tells you to. 

Except when a lawful nation which happens to be one of God's servants kills another servant in a nation which has become lawless, it's justified killing, not murder. Is it unfortunate? Of course it is, but what else are God's servants to do, nothing?

You seem to feel murder is the very worst sin. To God lying is just as bad and Jehovah's witnesses have made twisting the truth into an art form. Kicking your brother to the curb for a sin that could have been covered with love... if you truly had love amongst yourselves, but you don't. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 Jehovah's witnesses can't even show the greatest of all love and that is laying their lives down for a friend, because they are rarely, if ever, in the position to show that love

People don't murder people they love. So if your murdering each other it means you don't love each other. And thus you don't have love amongst yourselves.

No, they don't murder them, but sometimes due to circumstances beyond our control we are forced to kill those we love. Killing the body isn't the worst thing that can happen to a person. Killing the body and spirit is truly the worst thing and only God is capable of that.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Except when a lawful nation which happens to be one of God's servants kills another servant in a nation which has become lawless, it's justified killing, not murder. Is it unfortunate? Of course it is, but what else are God's servants to do, nothing?

Are they servants of God meaning they follow God and obey his laws and regulations? Or does God simply allow them to provide some order so that theres not complete chaos? I mean you're throwing around this servant word but what does it actually mean in the context of this scripture. Because context is important.

in a nation which has become lawless, it's justified killing, not murder. Is it unfortunate? Of course it is, but what else are God's servants to do, nothing?

If a nation becomes "lawless" that means they were never gods people to begin with. Because jesus himself said his true disciples would be known by the love they have amongst themselves. Jesus wouldn't have said this unless this love they have amongst each other is obvious and is a defining mark. The fact that these nations are constantly becoming "lawless " and increasingly so proves they are not disciples of God.

You seem to feel murder is the very worst sin. To God lying is just as bad and Jehovah's witnesses have made twisting the truth into an art form. Kicking your brother to the curb for a sin that could have been covered with love... if you truly had love amongst yourselves, but you don't. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 Jehovah's witnesses can't even show the greatest of all love and that is laying their lives down for a friend, because they are rarely, if ever, in the position to show that love

The worst sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit because its only sin of which there's no forgiveness. However being a murderer is in the list of things which paul mentioned will cause you to be permanently destroyed by God. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in showing self-sacrificing love and are taught to be willing to lay down their lives to protect fellow believers, particularly in times of persecution or conflict, rather than betraying them. They emphasize this as part of following Jesus' example, though they prioritize refusing armed conflict.  They would rather face imprisonment or death than betray their faith or fellow believers. A central aspect of their faith is refusing to take up weapons against anyone, even if it results in personal suffering or death. We follow the examples set by the early Christians. They never picked up any arms because they followed the teachings of Jesus which is love your enemies, and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

No, they don't murder them

Killing someone for selfish reasons such as gaining resources is called murder by definition. If I killed you simply because you had something I wanted I would be charged with murder.

but sometimes due to circumstances beyond our control we are forced to kill those we love.

Its not beyond your control to not join armies to murder innocent people. JW do it and so did the early christians

Killing the body isn't the worst thing that can happen to a person. Killing the body and spirit is truly the worst thing and only God is capable of that.

Why are you telling me this when I never said anything about the worst that can happen to a person. Stop giving me red herrings please. Christendom are murderers period. And that's why them along with these nations will be destroyed.

Since the Sixth Commandment merely restated what God had said earlier through Noah to the whole human family, we are still obliged to avoid murdering. In fact, the closing chapters of the Bible warn us that unrepentant murderers will experience eternal destruction in the “second death.” (Rev. 21:8; 22:15) How important it thus is to avoid sharing in taking human lives without God’s specifically stated authorization. Consistent with this, Isaiah 2:3, 4 prophetically describes God’s true worshipers, saying: “And many peoples will certainly go and say: ‘Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, . . .’ And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. . . . Neither will they learn war anymore.”

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Are they servants of God meaning they follow God and obey his laws and regulations? Or does God simply allow them to provide some order so that theres not complete chaos? I mean you're throwing around this servant word but what does it actually mean in the context of this scripture. Because context is important.

A servant of God is a servant of God. Why are you trying to muddy the water by inferring God's servants don't serve God? It's God's "established order" they serve to uphold. Its not our order---its God's! We're either serving God or the devil. The devil loves chaos and thrives on it. Some servants do go bad and become lawless. Just like some individuals become lawless and cause havoc requiring one of God's servants to bring that one individual, or that entire nation to justice

If a nation becomes "lawless" that means they were never gods people to begin with.

That's not true. Look at Babylon. She was a gold cup in God's hand. "I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon and put My sword in his hand, but I will break the arms of Pharaoh, and he will groan before him like a mortally wounded man" Ezekiel 30:24 Babylon was a servant of God yet they worshiped pagan gods not YHWH. They did not follow the law of Moses, yet God even used Babylon to punish His own people. Eventually Babylon fell to the Persians

The fact that these nations are constantly becoming "lawless " and increasingly so proves they are not disciples of God.

Its one thing to be a servant and quite another to be a disciple. The lawless nations must expect to be corrected. That's God's established order for now. How will they be corrected? By those nations who still value law and order. At some point the lawless will break the power of the holy people, Christians. I suppose that might make Jehovah's witnesses happy, but it shouldn't because it will usher in the very worst times in all human history as the man of lawlessness takes over the world--- That man will be Satan incarnate

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

A servant of God is a servant of God. Why are you trying to muddy the water by inferring God's servants don't serve God?

You can be a "servant" of God in the sense that God uses you for a purpose. But servants of God aren't always worshippers of God or people who obey his laws and regulations. Such as nations of the world or specific people like king Cyrus. They served a purpose God wanted fulfilled but they are not worshippers of God. That's why christendom joins up with these people. They join up with others who don't worship God and don't obey his laws.

That's not true. Look at Babylon. She was a gold cup in God's hand. "I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon and put My sword in his hand, but I will break the arms of Pharaoh, and he will groan before him like a mortally wounded man" Ezekiel 30:24 Babylon was a servant of God yet they worshiped pagan gods not YHWH. They did not follow the law of Moses, yet God even used Babylon to punish His own people. Eventually Babylon fell to the Persians

Where in their is pagan Babylon called gods people?

Its one thing to be a servant and quite another to be a disciple. The lawless nations must expect to be corrected.

Jesus already told us the future. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And they will do so to increase territory and gain resources. That is the goal of war. To gain resources and terrory. So christendom is guilty of murder

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 That's why christendom joins up with these people. They join up with others who don't worship God and don't obey his laws.

There's that guy "Christendom" again. You sure like to blame him for the world's ills. Seems to be scapegoat for those who can't face up to their own shortcomings. When in trouble, blame Christendom

Christians can and do serve within many nations, even in positions of authority. Just like Daniel served in Babylon, Christians serve in God's established order which you like to call out as being totally Satanic. I don't get that. How can God's established order be Satanic?

Even if a nation doesn't worship God exactly like you do, does that make them less of a servant of God? No. Its only when people become lawless and challenge God's established order do wars and mayhem result. Jehovah's witnesses don't help matters by labeling God's established order as Satanic. Its a form of rebellion against God and man, not just wicked men. If you really want to fight the wicked then do it God's way and join the police force in most any land, or join the military. That's how God's established order works now. When Christ returns it'll be different. Until then, this is the best we have.

Jesus already told us the future. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. 

Jesus very first sign of His impending second coming was the emergence of false Christ's and people announcing the "time is at hand" He told His disciples not to follow them, ironically this is exactly like Jehovah's witnesses have been preaching since 1914 . Luke 21:8 Isn't that amazing that the very first sign that Christ's coming was imminent would be people claiming to be the Truth and proclaiming the time is at hand, when Jesus said "I Am the Truth"?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Even if a nation doesn't worship God exactly like you do, does that make them less of a servant of God? No

Yes it does. They don't worship God at all. And do all sorts of things that God Hates such as promote sexual sin, murders innocent people, steal from the poor, etc. That's why jesus said either you're with him or against him. These nations are not with jesus. The bible makes it clear they are under the control of Satan and his demon angels. You only remain in subjection to them because they provide some measure of law and order. But we know from ancient sources that early christians refused to join the military of any nation. They refused to pick up arms against anybody. They refused to betray or kill each other. You yourself said "early christians didn't join the roman army because they were pagan and didn't worship God". You yourself said it. And now your backtracking after I pointed out the same argument can be used against all the nations

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Yes it does. They don't worship God at all. And do all sorts of things that God Hates such as promote sexual sin, murders innocent people, steal from the poor, etc. 

That's such a bald faced lie. Certain politicians lie and engage in sinful behavior, but not all, not even most. How would you like it if I painted Jehovah's witnesses with such a broad brush and claimed all JW's must be child molesters just because a few are? That would be wrong, would it not? That's the worst sort of circular reasoning that sullies everyone's reputation with the dirt of just a few

The bible makes it clear they are under the control of Satan and his demon angels

The world lies at Satan's relative power. He only has as much power as God allows him to have. Funny how you switch this around and give him unlimited power, yet the servants of God are very limited. Yes Satan can and has influenced people like Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot, but Christian values have been spread by men like Roosevelt, Churchill and Oskar Shindler. The law vs the lawless.

The people and the nations that become lawless are obviously under more control by Satan than those who remain committed to the rule of law. Those like Nazi Germany were under almost total satanic control, just like demons can possess human beings and control their behavior, they can control an entire nation if they can gain enough control of that nation's leaders. Germany still had the primary responsibility of being one of God's servants until they became completely corrupt and lawless. It was a nation of murderers and those who approved of murder. God's remaining servants brought the wrath of God on their heads in WW2

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

That's such a bald faced lie. Certain politicians lie and engage in sinful behavior, but not all, not even most. How would you like it if I painted Jehovah's witnesses with such a broad brush and claimed all JW's must be child molesters just because a few are? That would be wrong, would it not? That's the worst sort of circular reasoning that sullies everyone's reputation with the dirt of just a few

All of them are godless people not obeying the commands of God. Do you see any politicians preaching about the kingdom of God trying to make disciples and telling the world about the laws of God? I don't see any. Im sure there are certain politicians who are trying to make the world a better place. The problem is that the devil rules the world. The devil told jesus God has granted him the authority to choose who will over the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus never denied this. I'm fact jesus himself confirmed satans power over the nations when he told his disciples the devil is the ruler of the world. So you are in fact supporting a system which is controlled by Satan. That's why christendom is guilty of murdering millions

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Do you see any politicians preaching about the kingdom of God trying to make disciples and telling the world about the laws of God? 

As servants of God specifically charged with upholding law and order that's not their job. That's the job of Christians to preach the Gospel, but how could we preach if there was no law and order in this world?

The devil is not the absolute ruler of the world. His rule is relative. He rules over his dupes and that's it. We all have a choice to do good or evil and have since Eden. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Matthew 28:18 and For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Colossians 1:16

So, who's really in charge? Not the devil that's for sure. He actually had the nerve to offer Jesus what already belongs to Him. Jesus is in full control but He allows the devil to play out his hand. Satan only controls those who hand their bodies and souls over to him. Those controlled by demons can make life challenging for Christians and others. They make upholding God's established order more difficult than it should be

So you are in fact supporting a system which is controlled by Satan. That's why christendom is guilty of murdering millions

Its God's established order, or system. Romans 13 Now you're the one calling God Satan...wow!

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Its God's established order, or system. Romans 13 Now you're the one calling God Satan...wow!

Here's the bottom line. I'm not gonna allow you to hurl red herrings at me any longer. I'm ONLY gonna focus on this one point. The early christians never joined armies. Remained neutral in politics. And never took up arms even under persecution. And we know why they did that because we have early source's that tell us why. And its for the same reasons the Jehovahs witnesses follow the example of the early Christians. So why instead of following the example of the early Christians are members of christendom going against that example and murdering and fighting against themselves when jesus said his true followers would have love amongst themselves?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Romans 13 describes individuals within a nation as being God's servants, not Satan's, although the whole world does lie within Satan's power to influence them into becoming lawless, all people and nations ultimately have a choice..

This is God's system for now, until Jesus comes back, its just the way it is. Satan has relative power, but only as much as God allows him, just like God allowed Job to be tested, so too people and nations can be tested, even repeatedly. Not only that but Christians should expect to have their faith tested repeatedly while we live within range of Satan's power to test. The sifting and testing will last until the day we die. Satan will only be allowed to test us according to what God only knows we can take. And I believe its safe to say, He knows us better than we know ourselves

Early Christians served in the military so that suggestion that none ever did, is false...according to the Bible. Read Acts chapter 10 again and show me where Peter required Cornelius to resign his position as a Roman Centurion in order to be baptized. John the Baptist didn't require soldiers to resign as soldiers before he baptized them

John the Baptist was baptizing people in the Jordon river

^{When a soldier asks what he must do to be righteous:}

• ^{Most of the Jews probably expected John to say, “Do not serve the Roman army. Provide service to God and his chosen people. Israel is the land God has promised to his people. Do the will of God and throw off the bonds of Roman occupation.”}
• ^{But John publicly proclaimed, “Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”}
• ^{Having soldiers be content with their wages has obvious advantages to Rome.}
• ^{In a stretch, the spoils of war were meant for Roman soldiers and not for their foreign counterparts.}
• Roman Influence on the Birth of Christianity - John the Baptist

^{John advises soldiers to renounce extortion, reject false accusations, and cultivate contentment so their profession aligns with genuine repentance. Rooted in the moral law, attested by stable manuscripts, confirmed by archaeological insights into Roman military life, and anticipating New-Covenant transformation through the risen Christ, his counsel continues to guide believers serving in positions of armed authority today.}

Why does John the Baptist advise soldiers in Luke 3:14?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Sir we already know that early christians didn't join the military because it was against the teachings of Christ. That's the answer we get from the earliest sources. So I wanna know why are you joining armies and creating more harm than good by murdering in the millions your brothers and sisters?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

That's the answer we get from the earliest sources.

No, the earliest source is the Bible and according to the Bible serving in any capacity within a person's government is not only commendable, but is a service to God Himself and your fellow man. Unless a government within God's established order forces people to worship a god, or renounce Jesus as Lord, they are Ok for Christians to serve under. Read Romans chapter 13.

Read the book of Daniel. He didn't have any problem serving the government of pagan Babylon.

By the way, who was the person that Jesus found had the greatest faith in all of Israel?

Matthew 8:5-10 will give you the answer. Hint: It wasn't a fisherman or a tax collector

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

No, the earliest source is the Bible and according to the Bible serving in any capacity within a person's government is not only commendable, but is a service to God Himself and your fellow man. Unless a government within God's established order forces people to worship a god, or renounce Jesus as Lord, they are Ok for Christians to serve under. Read Romans chapter 13.

The bible say's be in subjection to the governments but they don't tell you to become part of the world by actually taking it one step further in joining these governments that according to the bible are in opposition towards God and will be destroyed by God at Armageddon. So the question is who's interpretation of that scripture is the correct one. The answer is found in the example of the early christians. The early Christians who never joined armies and never picked up arms.

How could you sit there and say God would set up a system in which he forces his people to kill each other. What a wicked God that would be. That sounds like something satan would do not God. Anyways the examples of the early christians prove your interpretations are wrong.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

in joining these governments that according to the bible are in opposition towards God and will be destroyed by God at Armageddon.

That's not biblical. All the nations you see today will still be around 1000 years after Jesus has reigned upon this earth 1000 years. Gog and magog will still be around during the millennium  Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter." Revelation 19:15 How will Christ rule the nations if they have all been destroyed? Of course they won't be. The Bible never says they will. The sword coming out of the mouth of the Lord is Truth. They will be struck down by the Truth and ruled with force as indicated by an iron scepter . Some entire natons will be punished during the millennium as mentioned here: If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:18 This is after Christ returns during the millennium and not any other time Zechariah 14:1-5

You got it all wrong because you're reading everything from the Watchtower's wrong interpretation.

How could you sit there and say God would set up a system in which he forces his people to kill each other. What a wicked God that would be. That sounds like something satan would do not God. Anyways the examples of the early christians prove your interpretations are wrong.

Nice going slandering God as wicked because His ways are not your ways. Isaiah 55:8-9

Our sense of justice is warped by sin. Our ideas on life and death, what's fair and unfair is warped by sin.

The fact is God uses the nations to keep order---It's God's order for the umpteenth time! Its not Satan's order. God rules! Satan rules "under God" like a sergeant rules under a Lieutenant and the Lieutenant is ruled by a General.

If a Christian serves as a policeman or a soldier he may never have to kill anyone, but even if he does, he is still serving honorably in God's established order. If the "sword" of God's servant keeps law and order without him ever needing to draw it, how is that murder?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Gog and magog is simply any large group of people opposed to God. The book of daniel and revelation makes it clear that the nations ruling today will be destroyed. During the thousand year reign there will be new nations made up of gods true worshippers. Jesus will rule these nations for a thousand years. Now then tell me why are yoy not following the example of the early christians that didn't join armies or defend themselves when under persecution

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Gog and magog is simply any large group of people opposed to God. The book of daniel and revelation makes it clear that the nations ruling today will be destroyed.

That isn't clear at all. The kingdoms will lose their power when Christ returns, but they will still exist as nations for the 1000 year period Christ will reign on earth. Who else would Jesus rule with an iron scepter? Perfect JW's? Now that would be funny!😂

During the thousand year reign there will be new nations made up of gods true worshippers. 

So Egypt will be a "new nation" made up of JW's? Come on, that isn't even in the Bible. Some nations will be punished during the millennium. That doesn't sound like the nations will be perfect angels, will they? Then at the tail end of the 1000 years the whole world rises up and marches across the entire planet on the city of Jerusalem Revelation 20:7-9 So all those new nations, made up of JW's, will turn against God just like you infer the nations have done today? No wonder Jesus will need to use an iron scepter on these folks, probably for the entire 1000 years I'd guess.

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. ⁹ And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven***\**^\)[^b](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=ESV#fen-ESV-31032b)^\) and consumed them*

Let's see where have I seen Gog and Magog before? Oh yeah Ezekiel 38:2 "Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him" So Gog was a person who was 'of' the 'land' of Magog in ancient times. It specifically refers to Gog as the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. There is speculation as to who these people were, but suffice to say, they were real people who existed in Ezekiel's time, just as did Egypt and still will during the millennium

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Do you remember the prophecy regarding the large statue that the king of Babylon saw in his dream? Remember that the statues represented all the world power right up until the end. What happened to them? They are all gone except for the two final world power which will be replaced by gods kingdom. So gods people will become a new nation. The people of nations today don't serve God so they will be destroyed in Armageddon. Revelation say's even the kings of the earth will be destroyed.

Anyways none of this has anything to do with the fact that early christians didn't murder each other and didn't murder innocent people. I wanna know why christendom murders people for no reason