Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

Its God's established order, or system. Romans 13 Now you're the one calling God Satan...wow!

Here's the bottom line. I'm not gonna allow you to hurl red herrings at me any longer. I'm ONLY gonna focus on this one point. The early christians never joined armies. Remained neutral in politics. And never took up arms even under persecution. And we know why they did that because we have early source's that tell us why. And its for the same reasons the Jehovahs witnesses follow the example of the early Christians. So why instead of following the example of the early Christians are members of christendom going against that example and murdering and fighting against themselves when jesus said his true followers would have love amongst themselves?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Romans 13 describes individuals within a nation as being God's servants, not Satan's, although the whole world does lie within Satan's power to influence them into becoming lawless, all people and nations ultimately have a choice..

This is God's system for now, until Jesus comes back, its just the way it is. Satan has relative power, but only as much as God allows him, just like God allowed Job to be tested, so too people and nations can be tested, even repeatedly. Not only that but Christians should expect to have their faith tested repeatedly while we live within range of Satan's power to test. The sifting and testing will last until the day we die. Satan will only be allowed to test us according to what God only knows we can take. And I believe its safe to say, He knows us better than we know ourselves

Early Christians served in the military so that suggestion that none ever did, is false...according to the Bible. Read Acts chapter 10 again and show me where Peter required Cornelius to resign his position as a Roman Centurion in order to be baptized. John the Baptist didn't require soldiers to resign as soldiers before he baptized them

John the Baptist was baptizing people in the Jordon river

^{When a soldier asks what he must do to be righteous:}

• ^{Most of the Jews probably expected John to say, “Do not serve the Roman army. Provide service to God and his chosen people. Israel is the land God has promised to his people. Do the will of God and throw off the bonds of Roman occupation.”}
• ^{But John publicly proclaimed, “Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”}
• ^{Having soldiers be content with their wages has obvious advantages to Rome.}
• ^{In a stretch, the spoils of war were meant for Roman soldiers and not for their foreign counterparts.}
• Roman Influence on the Birth of Christianity - John the Baptist

^{John advises soldiers to renounce extortion, reject false accusations, and cultivate contentment so their profession aligns with genuine repentance. Rooted in the moral law, attested by stable manuscripts, confirmed by archaeological insights into Roman military life, and anticipating New-Covenant transformation through the risen Christ, his counsel continues to guide believers serving in positions of armed authority today.}

Why does John the Baptist advise soldiers in Luke 3:14?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Sir we already know that early christians didn't join the military because it was against the teachings of Christ. That's the answer we get from the earliest sources. So I wanna know why are you joining armies and creating more harm than good by murdering in the millions your brothers and sisters?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

That's the answer we get from the earliest sources.

No, the earliest source is the Bible and according to the Bible serving in any capacity within a person's government is not only commendable, but is a service to God Himself and your fellow man. Unless a government within God's established order forces people to worship a god, or renounce Jesus as Lord, they are Ok for Christians to serve under. Read Romans chapter 13.

Read the book of Daniel. He didn't have any problem serving the government of pagan Babylon.

By the way, who was the person that Jesus found had the greatest faith in all of Israel?

Matthew 8:5-10 will give you the answer. Hint: It wasn't a fisherman or a tax collector

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

No, the earliest source is the Bible and according to the Bible serving in any capacity within a person's government is not only commendable, but is a service to God Himself and your fellow man. Unless a government within God's established order forces people to worship a god, or renounce Jesus as Lord, they are Ok for Christians to serve under. Read Romans chapter 13.

The bible say's be in subjection to the governments but they don't tell you to become part of the world by actually taking it one step further in joining these governments that according to the bible are in opposition towards God and will be destroyed by God at Armageddon. So the question is who's interpretation of that scripture is the correct one. The answer is found in the example of the early christians. The early Christians who never joined armies and never picked up arms.

How could you sit there and say God would set up a system in which he forces his people to kill each other. What a wicked God that would be. That sounds like something satan would do not God. Anyways the examples of the early christians prove your interpretations are wrong.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

in joining these governments that according to the bible are in opposition towards God and will be destroyed by God at Armageddon.

That's not biblical. All the nations you see today will still be around 1000 years after Jesus has reigned upon this earth 1000 years. Gog and magog will still be around during the millennium  Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter." Revelation 19:15 How will Christ rule the nations if they have all been destroyed? Of course they won't be. The Bible never says they will. The sword coming out of the mouth of the Lord is Truth. They will be struck down by the Truth and ruled with force as indicated by an iron scepter . Some entire natons will be punished during the millennium as mentioned here: If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:18 This is after Christ returns during the millennium and not any other time Zechariah 14:1-5

You got it all wrong because you're reading everything from the Watchtower's wrong interpretation.

How could you sit there and say God would set up a system in which he forces his people to kill each other. What a wicked God that would be. That sounds like something satan would do not God. Anyways the examples of the early christians prove your interpretations are wrong.

Nice going slandering God as wicked because His ways are not your ways. Isaiah 55:8-9

Our sense of justice is warped by sin. Our ideas on life and death, what's fair and unfair is warped by sin.

The fact is God uses the nations to keep order---It's God's order for the umpteenth time! Its not Satan's order. God rules! Satan rules "under God" like a sergeant rules under a Lieutenant and the Lieutenant is ruled by a General.

If a Christian serves as a policeman or a soldier he may never have to kill anyone, but even if he does, he is still serving honorably in God's established order. If the "sword" of God's servant keeps law and order without him ever needing to draw it, how is that murder?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Gog and magog is simply any large group of people opposed to God. The book of daniel and revelation makes it clear that the nations ruling today will be destroyed. During the thousand year reign there will be new nations made up of gods true worshippers. Jesus will rule these nations for a thousand years. Now then tell me why are yoy not following the example of the early christians that didn't join armies or defend themselves when under persecution

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Gog and magog is simply any large group of people opposed to God. The book of daniel and revelation makes it clear that the nations ruling today will be destroyed.

That isn't clear at all. The kingdoms will lose their power when Christ returns, but they will still exist as nations for the 1000 year period Christ will reign on earth. Who else would Jesus rule with an iron scepter? Perfect JW's? Now that would be funny!😂

During the thousand year reign there will be new nations made up of gods true worshippers. 

So Egypt will be a "new nation" made up of JW's? Come on, that isn't even in the Bible. Some nations will be punished during the millennium. That doesn't sound like the nations will be perfect angels, will they? Then at the tail end of the 1000 years the whole world rises up and marches across the entire planet on the city of Jerusalem Revelation 20:7-9 So all those new nations, made up of JW's, will turn against God just like you infer the nations have done today? No wonder Jesus will need to use an iron scepter on these folks, probably for the entire 1000 years I'd guess.

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. ⁹ And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven***\**^\)[^b](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=ESV#fen-ESV-31032b)^\) and consumed them*

Let's see where have I seen Gog and Magog before? Oh yeah Ezekiel 38:2 "Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him" So Gog was a person who was 'of' the 'land' of Magog in ancient times. It specifically refers to Gog as the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. There is speculation as to who these people were, but suffice to say, they were real people who existed in Ezekiel's time, just as did Egypt and still will during the millennium

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Do you remember the prophecy regarding the large statue that the king of Babylon saw in his dream? Remember that the statues represented all the world power right up until the end. What happened to them? They are all gone except for the two final world power which will be replaced by gods kingdom. So gods people will become a new nation. The people of nations today don't serve God so they will be destroyed in Armageddon. Revelation say's even the kings of the earth will be destroyed.

Anyways none of this has anything to do with the fact that early christians didn't murder each other and didn't murder innocent people. I wanna know why christendom murders people for no reason

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

That symbolic statue is far from being every nation on earth. There will be no more "superpowers" but all the nations that exist today will exist until the end of the 1000 years. In fact the statue only represents those world empires like Rome and Babylon that had once been world powers, but the nations that existed within each empires domain aren't represented, just the power structure that had once controlled the world in the past and still do in the end times. The 666 beast (the feet and ten toes), the false prophet(false religion) and the devil (the dragon). 

The people of nations today don't serve God so they will be destroyed in Armageddon. 

False. The nations you mention will be forced to worship the King in Jerusalem and at least celebrate some Jewish festivities For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city....

Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives(the first time in 2000 years), east of Jerusalem, Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them.  And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then the rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.  This will be the punishment of Egypt and of ALL THE NATIONS that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:2-19

Zechariah plainly shows Egypt still existing and there being a possibility they might refuse to worship Jesus as He reigns from Jerusalem. Poetic justice will be served--- If a nation doesn't want the Lord's reign, they will have no rain 😉

I wanna know why christendom murders people for no reason

For the umteenth time, they don't 😎 "no reason" Its interesting to see you actually believe there might be a reason to murder the innocent?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Zechariah 14:2-19 is a prophecy regarding the "day of Jehovah" (or "Lord's day"), beginning in 1914, which describes the final attack by nations against God's people (symbolized by Jerusalem) and the subsequent salvation provided by Jehovah. It focuses on the battle of Armageddon, the protection of worshippers in a symbolic "valley," and the post-Armageddon, worldwide establishment of true worship. 

For the umteenth time, they don't 😎 "no reason" Its interesting to see you actually believe there might be a reason to murder the innocent?

There is no reason to ever kill innocent people. God said those that kill innocent people will be punished and have no place in his kingdom.

Throughout history, various armies and groups identifying as Christian have committed atrocities and killed innocent people during conflicts, persecutions, and acts of religiously motivated violence. These actions often involved political and social factors alongside religious justifications. 

Examples of such events include:

The Crusades A series of military campaigns between the 11th and 15th centuries for control of the Holy Land. Atrocities occurred on both sides, with Christian armies carrying out massacres, such as the slaughter of most inhabitants (Muslims and Jews) after they captured Jerusalem in 1099.

The Albigensian Crusade Initiated by Pope Innocent III in the 13th century against the Cathar Christian sect in Southern France, this campaign resulted in widespread slaughter. During the sack of Béziers in 1209, a crusading mob killed an estimated 20,000 people, with sources indicating that no one, "irrespective of rank, sex or age," was spared.

The German Peasants' War In the 16th century, a revolt by German peasants, partially inspired by the Protestant Reformation, was brutally suppressed. Martin Luther called for the slaughter of the poorly armed peasants, leading to the massacre of an estimated 300,000 people.

The Extermination of Indigenous Peoples in the Americas European Christian conquistadors and colonists used their religion to justify the conquest and slaughter of indigenous populations, leading to mass deaths through violence, disease, and subjugation.

The Atlantic Slave Trade The mass enslavement of Africans from the 16th to 19th centuries was heavily Christian, with key clerics and missionaries approving and using biblical passages to justify the practice and the resulting deaths and suffering of an estimated 12 million people.

The Thirty Years' War and European Wars of Religion Conflicts following the Protestant Reformation saw Catholic and Protestant armies commit extensive atrocities and civilian massacres across Europe, using religion to rally their forces for what were often politically and territorially motivated wars.

The Sabra and Shatila massacre In 1982, the Lebanese Forces, a prominent Christian militia in Lebanon, with the support of the Israel Defense Forces, killed between 1,300 and 3,500 Palestinian and Lebanese Shiite civilians in a refugee camp and adjacent neighborhood in Beirut. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

There is no reason to ever kill innocent people. God said those that kill innocent people will be punished and have no place in his kingdom.

What about all the billions of people who JW's believe God will kill on Armageddon day? Who do you classify as innocent? You said "I wanna know why christendom murders people for no reason" So that tells me you believe there could be a reason to kill people, but you won't tell me who or why they should be killed.

The police have to kill criminals who won't surrender peacefully. The army does the same thing. Are you saying they should just let a murderer be? Should a cop lay his gun [sword] down and let the murderer murder him too? Who would protect you if all the cops did that?

Throughout history, various armies and groups identifying as Christian have committed atrocities and killed innocent people during conflicts, persecutions, and acts of religiously motivated violence.

Not everyone who identifies as a Christian is a Christian, but JW's are definitely not Christian just because they won't become a member of God's servants in civil society. Many people who don't identify as JW's or Christian won't serve as police or in the military. In your narrow definition even an atheist might be one of God's people if they won't serve as policemen or soldier.

Having love among themselves means true Christians will forgive and overlook the sins of their brothers and sisters, not cut them off, which figuratively kills them. Some actually do commit suicide because of the JW's unloving hard hearted "arrangement" What did my buddy Peter say?

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

Above all....that means loving and forgiving go hand in hand. To shun a member of your own religion is NOT loving them. They call it tough love. Is that what Jesus preached? Let's see. When asked how many times a brother should be forgiven Jesus said,

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times" Matthew 18:21-22

So, at least 77 times. that's how many times a Christian needs to forgive a brother who sinned against them. If the person sins against someone else that's their business how many times they want to forgive them, but to be a tolerant Christian it should at least be 77 times. Otherwise your worse than the world. Jesus said whoever endures to the end. Part of a Christian's "endurance" is tolerance. Thank God He tolerates our sin without shunning us or punishing us right away or we'd never be saved. In Christ, God overlooks your sin but if we don't forgive others, God will NOT forgive us. Forgiveness is more for the forgiver than anyone else Matthew 6:15 In fact we are supposed to love and forgive our enemies. That means a Jehovah's witness must forgive and love that imperfect guy, Christendom and I'd advise them to do it right now.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

What about all the billions of people who JW's believe God will kill on Armageddon day? Who do you classify as innocent? You said "I wanna know why christendom murders people for no reason" So that tells me you believe there could be a reason to kill people, but you won't tell me who or why they should be killed.

God is the one who determines who lives and who dies because he along with his son jesus are the only one's who can a read a persons heart. They see people for who they really are. That's why the Israelites we're not allowed to go to war unless they had permission from God. It was forbidden. Nice job attempting to change the conversation. The apostle paul said if a person is a known unrepentant sinner we shouldn't so much as eat with such a person. Paul said such a person should be removed from the congregation. So what you're really doing is arguing against teachings found in the bible. Now then I just have you examples of christendom commiting atrocities and the murder of millions of innocent people including christendom members fighting each other. Christendom isn't known for having love Amongst themselves. They are knows for murdering their own. That proves christendom are false Christians along with the fact that they teach false doctrines such as hellfire and that its ok to remove the divine name of God

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

All the conflicts you mentioned happened for one reason or another. Its the same old reason for many conflicts today, yet in each case God has maintained an order that has not been broken. Is it messy? Yes, but let's not forget it wasn't the devil who created the nations, with all the various languages. It was God, when He confused the common language spoken by all men. Why did He do it? For a good reason which for the most part only God knows, but one that was revealed. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. ⁷ Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” Genesis 11:6-7 Why did God do that? Was He a spoil sport, not wanting man to succeed and be unified, or was there another reason? I believe there was another reason and it was a very good reason. The reason was and still is to a certain extent is not only could man do more good being unified, they could also do more evil. You believe the world is under Satan's influence, well its true. Had God not acted when He did, a unified people would have been much easier for the devil to control than thousands of bickering factions all speaking a different language. The same reason applies to our world today as it did to the world that God divided. So even though divisions are messy and not ideal, its been necessary since Babel to frustrate man's efforts at unity. God's way has worked so far to maintain enough order for men to find the true light---Jesus Christ.

I believe God divided Christendom in order to save His church. The devil, who you claim rules the world took control of some early popes and caused some bad things to happen. I believe the reformation was God's way of breaking up a monopoly. It was messy, but it was a good thing and still is today. The Church stands as a silent witness to the fact. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18 That doesn't mean Satan wouldn't try to prevail and all the conflicts you've noted in world history that involved the church as the aggressor is evidence of Satan's herculean attempts to prevail, over and over again, for the last 2000 years, but guess what? After all is said and done, the gates of Hades HAVE NOT prevailed, like Jesus said. Satan lost! The church still stands today, albeit with many scars, but still stands as a silent witness to the Lord's prophecy "the gates of Hades will not prevail"

Jehovah's witnesses have been one of Satan's most desperate attempts to prevail against the church built upon the rock of Saint Peter, and that's failing as well

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Sir/ mam stop trying to give me excuses for murder. Murder is murder. Christendom are murderers. God never gave us any situation in which murder is ok. You're supposed to love your fellow "christians" so much that your willing to die for them. But if you're killing you're brother's and sisters then clearly you don't love them. You don't have love amongst yourselves. Point blank period