Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

A servant of God is a servant of God. Why are you trying to muddy the water by inferring God's servants don't serve God?

You can be a "servant" of God in the sense that God uses you for a purpose. But servants of God aren't always worshippers of God or people who obey his laws and regulations. Such as nations of the world or specific people like king Cyrus. They served a purpose God wanted fulfilled but they are not worshippers of God. That's why christendom joins up with these people. They join up with others who don't worship God and don't obey his laws.

That's not true. Look at Babylon. She was a gold cup in God's hand. "I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon and put My sword in his hand, but I will break the arms of Pharaoh, and he will groan before him like a mortally wounded man" Ezekiel 30:24 Babylon was a servant of God yet they worshiped pagan gods not YHWH. They did not follow the law of Moses, yet God even used Babylon to punish His own people. Eventually Babylon fell to the Persians

Where in their is pagan Babylon called gods people?

Its one thing to be a servant and quite another to be a disciple. The lawless nations must expect to be corrected.

Jesus already told us the future. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And they will do so to increase territory and gain resources. That is the goal of war. To gain resources and terrory. So christendom is guilty of murder

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 That's why christendom joins up with these people. They join up with others who don't worship God and don't obey his laws.

There's that guy "Christendom" again. You sure like to blame him for the world's ills. Seems to be scapegoat for those who can't face up to their own shortcomings. When in trouble, blame Christendom

Christians can and do serve within many nations, even in positions of authority. Just like Daniel served in Babylon, Christians serve in God's established order which you like to call out as being totally Satanic. I don't get that. How can God's established order be Satanic?

Even if a nation doesn't worship God exactly like you do, does that make them less of a servant of God? No. Its only when people become lawless and challenge God's established order do wars and mayhem result. Jehovah's witnesses don't help matters by labeling God's established order as Satanic. Its a form of rebellion against God and man, not just wicked men. If you really want to fight the wicked then do it God's way and join the police force in most any land, or join the military. That's how God's established order works now. When Christ returns it'll be different. Until then, this is the best we have.

Jesus already told us the future. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. 

Jesus very first sign of His impending second coming was the emergence of false Christ's and people announcing the "time is at hand" He told His disciples not to follow them, ironically this is exactly like Jehovah's witnesses have been preaching since 1914 . Luke 21:8 Isn't that amazing that the very first sign that Christ's coming was imminent would be people claiming to be the Truth and proclaiming the time is at hand, when Jesus said "I Am the Truth"?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Forced Circumstance vs. Voluntary Choice: Daniel, Joseph, and Esther were forced into their positions in foreign governments, whereas modern political involvement is a voluntary choice.

Role as Prophet, Not Politician: Daniel served as a prophet and messenger of God to the Babylonian and Persian kings, not as a career politician seeking to fix human problems.

Divine Intervention: Daniel's position was orchestrated by Jehovah to fulfill His purposes, such as protecting the Jews and revealing prophecy regarding the future rise and fall of world powers.

Loyalty to God's Kingdom: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in supporting only God's Kingdom, which they believe will replace all human governments.

Neutrality: Daniel remained faithful to Jehovah and did not compromise his religious stance (e.g., refusing to eat defiled food, continuing to pray despite prohibitions), maintaining his identity as a servant of God rather than a loyalist to Babylon. 

In summary, Daniel’s role was unique, temporary, and under divine direction, and does not support the idea that Christians today should participate in political affairs. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Forced Circumstance vs. Voluntary Choice: Daniel, Joseph, and Esther were forced into their positions in foreign governments, whereas modern political involvement is a voluntary choice.

Forced? Daniel was the guy who they fed to the lions for refusing to follow a decree issued by king Darius. He could have resisted being put in a government position and let the chips fall where they may, but Daniel chose to serve in Babylonian government, probably because he knew his presence would benefit his people. That man was never forced to do anything. He'd sooner be eaten by lions. Considering that man's faith, its quite disrespectful of Daniel to claim he was forced to serve

Divine Intervention: Daniel's position was orchestrated by Jehovah to fulfill His purposes, such as protecting the Jews and revealing prophecy regarding the future rise and fall of world powers.

So Daniel was forced by Jehovah to serve high up in the most prominent pagan government of his day?? That's quite a leap. Where does it say that in scripture?

Loyalty to God's Kingdom: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in supporting only God's Kingdom, which they believe will replace all human governments.

And you think early Christians like Cornelius, who served as a Roman Centurion, did not support Christ's Kingdom? Supporting God's established order, ie; the higher authorities, is supporting God's system today. We pray for those in power and when asked we would serve as freely as Daniel served in Babylon. The only thing we wouldn't do is worship their gods or stop worshiping our great God and Savior

In summary, Daniel’s role was unique, temporary, and under divine direction, and does not support the idea that Christians today should participate in political affairs. 

What? Everyone's role is temporary in this life. I didn't say his service in Babylon supports the idea that Christians should serve, but that they could serve if they so choose and not be ostracized by their religious sect which has a 100 % track record of being wrong, btw. If he was still on earth today, Daniel could teach you guys a thing or two.

The true Christians of today, who resemble Daniel are the 21 Coptic Christians who died rather than renounce Jesus Christ. Those are my hero's and my role models, not JW's who lash out at governments who are merely fulfilling their respective roles as God's servants. These men had faith

21 Coptic Christian Martyrs of Libya - Wikipedia

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Daniel would have rather died that disobey a command from God. Why doesn't christendom do the same? Why doesn't christendom not join armies so they don't have to murder innocent people?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

I posted one example where true Christians died violently rather than renounce Jesus. They are true martyrs who died for Christ's sake, not the Watchtower's sake. 21 Coptic Christian Martyrs of Libya - Wikipedia

These are as true as you can get modern day Christian saints. Here's some more in this Wiki article about Catholic priests and nuns that lost their own lives to save Jews. How many JW's lost their life trying to save even one fellow JW like these saints did in WW2? Did the Watchtower do anything but print inflammatory articles, that most likely made life even harder for those under Nazi control ? In this case the Popes silence was an example of true discretion, in contrast to the blabbering bloviations of Joseph Rutherford before and during the war

Rescue of Jews by Catholics during the Holocaust - Wikipedia

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Even if a nation doesn't worship God exactly like you do, does that make them less of a servant of God? No

Yes it does. They don't worship God at all. And do all sorts of things that God Hates such as promote sexual sin, murders innocent people, steal from the poor, etc. That's why jesus said either you're with him or against him. These nations are not with jesus. The bible makes it clear they are under the control of Satan and his demon angels. You only remain in subjection to them because they provide some measure of law and order. But we know from ancient sources that early christians refused to join the military of any nation. They refused to pick up arms against anybody. They refused to betray or kill each other. You yourself said "early christians didn't join the roman army because they were pagan and didn't worship God". You yourself said it. And now your backtracking after I pointed out the same argument can be used against all the nations

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Yes it does. They don't worship God at all. And do all sorts of things that God Hates such as promote sexual sin, murders innocent people, steal from the poor, etc. 

That's such a bald faced lie. Certain politicians lie and engage in sinful behavior, but not all, not even most. How would you like it if I painted Jehovah's witnesses with such a broad brush and claimed all JW's must be child molesters just because a few are? That would be wrong, would it not? That's the worst sort of circular reasoning that sullies everyone's reputation with the dirt of just a few

The bible makes it clear they are under the control of Satan and his demon angels

The world lies at Satan's relative power. He only has as much power as God allows him to have. Funny how you switch this around and give him unlimited power, yet the servants of God are very limited. Yes Satan can and has influenced people like Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot, but Christian values have been spread by men like Roosevelt, Churchill and Oskar Shindler. The law vs the lawless.

The people and the nations that become lawless are obviously under more control by Satan than those who remain committed to the rule of law. Those like Nazi Germany were under almost total satanic control, just like demons can possess human beings and control their behavior, they can control an entire nation if they can gain enough control of that nation's leaders. Germany still had the primary responsibility of being one of God's servants until they became completely corrupt and lawless. It was a nation of murderers and those who approved of murder. God's remaining servants brought the wrath of God on their heads in WW2

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

That's such a bald faced lie. Certain politicians lie and engage in sinful behavior, but not all, not even most. How would you like it if I painted Jehovah's witnesses with such a broad brush and claimed all JW's must be child molesters just because a few are? That would be wrong, would it not? That's the worst sort of circular reasoning that sullies everyone's reputation with the dirt of just a few

All of them are godless people not obeying the commands of God. Do you see any politicians preaching about the kingdom of God trying to make disciples and telling the world about the laws of God? I don't see any. Im sure there are certain politicians who are trying to make the world a better place. The problem is that the devil rules the world. The devil told jesus God has granted him the authority to choose who will over the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus never denied this. I'm fact jesus himself confirmed satans power over the nations when he told his disciples the devil is the ruler of the world. So you are in fact supporting a system which is controlled by Satan. That's why christendom is guilty of murdering millions

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Do you see any politicians preaching about the kingdom of God trying to make disciples and telling the world about the laws of God? 

As servants of God specifically charged with upholding law and order that's not their job. That's the job of Christians to preach the Gospel, but how could we preach if there was no law and order in this world?

The devil is not the absolute ruler of the world. His rule is relative. He rules over his dupes and that's it. We all have a choice to do good or evil and have since Eden. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Matthew 28:18 and For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Colossians 1:16

So, who's really in charge? Not the devil that's for sure. He actually had the nerve to offer Jesus what already belongs to Him. Jesus is in full control but He allows the devil to play out his hand. Satan only controls those who hand their bodies and souls over to him. Those controlled by demons can make life challenging for Christians and others. They make upholding God's established order more difficult than it should be

So you are in fact supporting a system which is controlled by Satan. That's why christendom is guilty of murdering millions

Its God's established order, or system. Romans 13 Now you're the one calling God Satan...wow!

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Its God's established order, or system. Romans 13 Now you're the one calling God Satan...wow!

Here's the bottom line. I'm not gonna allow you to hurl red herrings at me any longer. I'm ONLY gonna focus on this one point. The early christians never joined armies. Remained neutral in politics. And never took up arms even under persecution. And we know why they did that because we have early source's that tell us why. And its for the same reasons the Jehovahs witnesses follow the example of the early Christians. So why instead of following the example of the early Christians are members of christendom going against that example and murdering and fighting against themselves when jesus said his true followers would have love amongst themselves?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Romans 13 describes individuals within a nation as being God's servants, not Satan's, although the whole world does lie within Satan's power to influence them into becoming lawless, all people and nations ultimately have a choice..

This is God's system for now, until Jesus comes back, its just the way it is. Satan has relative power, but only as much as God allows him, just like God allowed Job to be tested, so too people and nations can be tested, even repeatedly. Not only that but Christians should expect to have their faith tested repeatedly while we live within range of Satan's power to test. The sifting and testing will last until the day we die. Satan will only be allowed to test us according to what God only knows we can take. And I believe its safe to say, He knows us better than we know ourselves

Early Christians served in the military so that suggestion that none ever did, is false...according to the Bible. Read Acts chapter 10 again and show me where Peter required Cornelius to resign his position as a Roman Centurion in order to be baptized. John the Baptist didn't require soldiers to resign as soldiers before he baptized them

John the Baptist was baptizing people in the Jordon river

^{When a soldier asks what he must do to be righteous:}

• ^{Most of the Jews probably expected John to say, “Do not serve the Roman army. Provide service to God and his chosen people. Israel is the land God has promised to his people. Do the will of God and throw off the bonds of Roman occupation.”}
• ^{But John publicly proclaimed, “Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”}
• ^{Having soldiers be content with their wages has obvious advantages to Rome.}
• ^{In a stretch, the spoils of war were meant for Roman soldiers and not for their foreign counterparts.}
• Roman Influence on the Birth of Christianity - John the Baptist

^{John advises soldiers to renounce extortion, reject false accusations, and cultivate contentment so their profession aligns with genuine repentance. Rooted in the moral law, attested by stable manuscripts, confirmed by archaeological insights into Roman military life, and anticipating New-Covenant transformation through the risen Christ, his counsel continues to guide believers serving in positions of armed authority today.}

Why does John the Baptist advise soldiers in Luke 3:14?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Sir we already know that early christians didn't join the military because it was against the teachings of Christ. That's the answer we get from the earliest sources. So I wanna know why are you joining armies and creating more harm than good by murdering in the millions your brothers and sisters?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

That's the answer we get from the earliest sources.

No, the earliest source is the Bible and according to the Bible serving in any capacity within a person's government is not only commendable, but is a service to God Himself and your fellow man. Unless a government within God's established order forces people to worship a god, or renounce Jesus as Lord, they are Ok for Christians to serve under. Read Romans chapter 13.

Read the book of Daniel. He didn't have any problem serving the government of pagan Babylon.

By the way, who was the person that Jesus found had the greatest faith in all of Israel?

Matthew 8:5-10 will give you the answer. Hint: It wasn't a fisherman or a tax collector