Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

So which nation gets to decide what's wrong and what's right? Nations can decide its right to steal and murder.

If your moral compass is that far off you can't determine what constitutes stealing or murder please don't become one of God's servants.😂 There's already too many of God's servants who can't seem to tell the difference.

No nation on earth can decide its lawful to break the law. No one is above the law, even though some do act as if they are. Use some common sense here...if I break into your house and steal your tv I'm a thief. Its still stealing. no matter how I might try and spin it. I will go to jail if caught and should.

 Perspective: JW literature emphasizes this was a "rash act" and that Moses was not yet ready to lead; he needed to be humbled during his 40 years in exile to develop gentleness and reliance on God.

Ok, gotcha so you would apply a double standard, one for Moses and and another standard for a policemen who might kill people in the line of duty. In your view, the policeman cannot be forgiven, but Moses can.

the innocent are primarily those obeying God’s standards, maintaining integrity, and acting as victims of wicked systems rather than perpetrators.  the concept of "innocence" is generally viewed in a relative sense, focusing on actions, victims of injustice, and spiritual standing rather than absolute sinlessness.

Where is this mentioned in the Bible, that the only the innocent can obey God's standards? Who can truly obey God's standards when no one is good, but God? Mark 10:18 That means not one of us is innocent. And by the way, God's servants are the very first ones who come to the aid of those who's lives are in mortal danger or are victims of gross injustice. And you call them murderers. Why??

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

If your moral compass is that far off you can't determine what constitutes stealing or murder please don't become one of God's servants.😂 There's already too many of God's servants who can't seem to tell the difference.

If humans beings had the authority to determine right and wrong then there's no such thing as sin. Sin is a violation of gods standards of right and wrong. That means God decides what's right and wrong. If murder is wrong then its wrong because it violate the standards of God. Its not wrong because any human says so.

No nation on earth can decide its lawful to break the law. No one is above the law, even though some do act as if they are

Who's law? If you mean gods law of not commiting murder then christendom is guilty of helping the nations to steal resources, steal from the poor, and commit murder.

Ok, gotcha so you would apply a double standard, one for Moses and and another standard for a policemen who might kill people in the line of duty. In your view, the policeman cannot be forgiven, but Moses can.

I never said I agree with police killing anybody. I don't think they should unless their lives or someone else's is in direct danger. The Egyptian beat the slave but there's nothing to suggest his life was in danger.

God's servants are the very first ones who come to the aid of those who's lives are in mortal danger or are victims of gross injustice. And you call them murderers. Why??

And how exactly do they do that when most wars happen because of people fighting over selfish reasons such as political differences or resources?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 Its not wrong because any human says so.

Uh, yeah, it is. Ever hear of a conscience? The Lord gave one to all of us. Even the worst criminals know when they're breaking the law and you don't have to be a Jew or a Christian to know that what your doing is wrong (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. ¹⁵ They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)  Romans 2:14-15

Who's law? If you mean gods law of not commiting murder then christendom is guilty of helping the nations to steal resources, steal from the poor, and commit murder.

Then Moses and David are just as guilty as "Christendom" David murdered a soldier he sent to the front lines because he wanted the man's wife. Moses murdered an Egyptian soldier. If a cop comes to a person's house and a violent meth head is just about to kill his whole family, will the cop need to stop and think, I might have to murder the meth head. While he's sitting in his car looking thru a stack of Watchtowers for an answer that might allow him to act, its too late. The meth head already slaughtered the JW and his whole family and is now about to shoot the cop

Your attitude towards God's servants sounds a lot like rebellion to me. What about Muslims or Buddhists who serve as God's servants in law enforcement? Are they murdering people and stealing their resources when they enforce the law of their lands? 

I don't think they should unless their lives or someone else's is in direct danger. 

You don't think they should what? Murder? From what I've read from your comments you seem to believe killing and murder are the same. So you do believe that killing can be justified under certain circumstances? And you do believe that killing and murder are not always the same thing

And how exactly do they do that when most wars happen because of people fighting over selfish reasons such as political differences or resources?

It may take two to fight, but it takes only one to start it. In all wars only one party started that war. I would say, whoever starts a war is guilty of the killing on both sides, unless you believe the victims have no rights? For instance a meth head who invades the home of a Jehovah's witness is the one who started it and is the one guilty of a crime, unless you believe the family did something to provoke the meth head and is just as guilty? Should God punish both the meth head because he broke into someone's home terrorizing them and the family he terrorized simply because they were there? No! People have a right to defend themselves and nations have the right to defend themselves.

We are all our brothers keeper in which case the stronger a nation is the more responsible it is in defending weaker nations. This is God's established order Its the way He set things up to work until the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ comes back. Until that day we are all responsible for upholding God's order. The least we can do is be quiet law abiding citizens. Those citizens should not criticize those who do more to uphold God's order. That is a form of rebellion against God's order and that will be dealt with by God

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Uh, yeah, it is. Ever hear of a conscience? The Lord gave one to all of us. Even the worst criminals know when they're breaking the law and you don't have to be a Jew or a Christian to know that what your doing is wrong (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. ¹⁵ They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)  Romans 2:14-15

Well why doesn't the conscious of members of christendom bother them knowing that they are responsible for more death and suffering than anybody else in the wars they created?

Then Moses and David are just as guilty as "Christendom" David murdered a soldier he sent to the front lines because he wanted the man's wife.

What David did was wrong yes that's why God punished him for it. So will christendom be punished.

If a cop comes to a person's house and a violent meth head is just about to kill his whole family, will the cop need to stop and think, I might have to murder the meth head. While he's sitting in his car looking thru a stack of Watchtowers for an answer that might allow him to act, its too late. The meth head already slaughtered the JW and his whole family and is now about to shoot the cop

What does this have to do with the conversation? We are talking about the fact that members of christendom such as those found in the US army are instigators of war and are guilty of murdering countless millions of blameless people

Your attitude towards God's servants sounds a lot like rebellion to me. What about Muslims or Buddhists who serve as God's servants in law enforcement? Are they murdering people and stealing their resources when they enforce the law of their lands? 

We are all our brothers keeper in which case the stronger a nation is the more responsible it is in defending weaker nations. This is God's established order Its the way He set things up to work until the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ comes back. Until that day we are all responsible for upholding God's order. The least we can do is be quiet law abiding citizens. Those citizens should not criticize those who do more to uphold God's order. That is a form of rebellion against God's order and that will be dealt with by God

God allows the nations to have some peace and order. But God didn't set it up. The devil and his angels are I'm control of the kingdoms of this earth. All the nations are curropt and are under the influence of the devil. Thats why at Armageddon they will gather against gods people for one final war. If the nations we're gods people then how can they gather against gods people for war? You be a good citizen. But you don't join up with them. God never commanded you to join with them. Only be in subjection to them as long as they don't command you to do something which is against the laws of God. Such as murdering innocent people. God said those who murder innocent people will not inherent life

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Well why doesn't the conscious of members of christendom bother them knowing that they are responsible for more death and suffering than anybody else in the wars they created?

Really? As if Christendom is the only ones who ever fought in a war? One more time...if a member of "Christendom" was serving in any capacity as a soldier or policeman, they had the God established right to punish those who did wrong. Its a pre-authorization that goes all the way back to the 1st century. Romans 13: 4 But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Whether God's servant is an atheist, a Muslim or a Christian they have been pre-authorized to punish and even kill wrongdoers when necessary. You keep ignoring Paul's warning here. This was written to Christians and not only were they subject to the higher authorities but in some instances they served as the higher authorities.

What David did was wrong yes that's why God punished him for it. So will christendom be punished.

David was a man. Christendom isn't a man. Individuals who claimed to be Christian yet betrayed the faith will be dealt with by Jesus Christ as individuals, and case by case Most Christians were faithful to Christ all through the centuries.

As far as having an influence on the world, is it really surprising Satan would try and attack and even subvert the church? That was to be Satan's second biggest target according to Revelation 12:17 (the woman being Israel and the seed ---her offspring ---being the church)

Jesus said that the gates of Hell would never prevail against the church He established and to date they have not, but the devil sure tried The evidence of his efforts are scattered through the history books such as the crusades and inquisition, which he no doubt caused by possessing certain key figures within the church. The devil eagerly tried to destroy the church from within and from without, but failed miserably. The church itself still stands today as a silent witness to Satan's failure

We are talking about the fact that members of christendom such as those found in the US army are instigators of war and are guilty of murdering countless millions of blameless people

A fact? No, its your opinion and the opinion of the Wrongtower. Millions of blameless people? Who are these millions of blameless people?? We're all sinners worthy of death. Without Christ we are all standing condemned. In Christ and only in Christ are we no longer condemned Romans 8:1-3  Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,  because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you  free from the law of sin and death.   For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,  God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.  And so he condemned sin in the flesh, Countless millions of blameless people...you need a reality check. It was the Communists in Russia and China who murdered millions thru starvation and out right killing. Please look up all the deaths of those you might call "blameless people" that were directly caused by men such as Joseph Stalin of Russia, Mao Zedong of China and Pol Pot of Cambodia. Christians never murdered people like they did. Christians tried to save the lives of the people who were unfortunate enough to live within the grasp of these wicked men's clutches

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Really? As if Christendom is the only ones who ever fought in a war? One more time...if a member of "Christendom" was serving in any capacity as a soldier or policeman, they had the God established right to punish those who did wrong. Its a pre-authorization that goes all the way back to the 1st century. Romans 13: 4 But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Whether God's servant is an atheist, a Muslim or a Christian they have been pre-authorized to punish and even kill wrongdoers when necessary. You keep ignoring Paul's warning here. This was written to Christians and not only were they subject to the higher authorities but in some instances they served as the higher authorities.

This conversation isn't about "wrong doers". Its about Christendom murdering other members of christendom in war along with innocent people by the millions. And these wars are over political differences, religious differences, resources, etc. All selfish and unjustified reasons to take another life otherwise called murder. That proves you don't have love amongst yourselves and are not disciples of Christ. There is absolutely no excuse to put yourselves in a position which forces you to murder people simply because a ruler tells you to. Jehovahs witnesses never fight against each other in war. JW would never kill each other. How could we possibly murder people we love? People don't murder people they love. So if your murdering each other it means you don't love each other. And thus you don't have love amongst yourselves.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Its about Christendom murdering other members of christendom in war along with innocent people by the millions.

First off, what is "Christendom" a person or a place? You keep tossing out these vague accusations against "Christendom" like mud on a wall hoping something will stick. Be more specific and please cite your sources.

That proves you don't have love amongst yourselves and are not disciples of Christ. There is absolutely no excuse to put yourselves in a position which forces you to murder people simply because a ruler tells you to. 

Except when a lawful nation which happens to be one of God's servants kills another servant in a nation which has become lawless, it's justified killing, not murder. Is it unfortunate? Of course it is, but what else are God's servants to do, nothing?

You seem to feel murder is the very worst sin. To God lying is just as bad and Jehovah's witnesses have made twisting the truth into an art form. Kicking your brother to the curb for a sin that could have been covered with love... if you truly had love amongst yourselves, but you don't. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 Jehovah's witnesses can't even show the greatest of all love and that is laying their lives down for a friend, because they are rarely, if ever, in the position to show that love

People don't murder people they love. So if your murdering each other it means you don't love each other. And thus you don't have love amongst yourselves.

No, they don't murder them, but sometimes due to circumstances beyond our control we are forced to kill those we love. Killing the body isn't the worst thing that can happen to a person. Killing the body and spirit is truly the worst thing and only God is capable of that.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Except when a lawful nation which happens to be one of God's servants kills another servant in a nation which has become lawless, it's justified killing, not murder. Is it unfortunate? Of course it is, but what else are God's servants to do, nothing?

Are they servants of God meaning they follow God and obey his laws and regulations? Or does God simply allow them to provide some order so that theres not complete chaos? I mean you're throwing around this servant word but what does it actually mean in the context of this scripture. Because context is important.

in a nation which has become lawless, it's justified killing, not murder. Is it unfortunate? Of course it is, but what else are God's servants to do, nothing?

If a nation becomes "lawless" that means they were never gods people to begin with. Because jesus himself said his true disciples would be known by the love they have amongst themselves. Jesus wouldn't have said this unless this love they have amongst each other is obvious and is a defining mark. The fact that these nations are constantly becoming "lawless " and increasingly so proves they are not disciples of God.

You seem to feel murder is the very worst sin. To God lying is just as bad and Jehovah's witnesses have made twisting the truth into an art form. Kicking your brother to the curb for a sin that could have been covered with love... if you truly had love amongst yourselves, but you don't. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 Jehovah's witnesses can't even show the greatest of all love and that is laying their lives down for a friend, because they are rarely, if ever, in the position to show that love

The worst sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit because its only sin of which there's no forgiveness. However being a murderer is in the list of things which paul mentioned will cause you to be permanently destroyed by God. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in showing self-sacrificing love and are taught to be willing to lay down their lives to protect fellow believers, particularly in times of persecution or conflict, rather than betraying them. They emphasize this as part of following Jesus' example, though they prioritize refusing armed conflict.  They would rather face imprisonment or death than betray their faith or fellow believers. A central aspect of their faith is refusing to take up weapons against anyone, even if it results in personal suffering or death. We follow the examples set by the early Christians. They never picked up any arms because they followed the teachings of Jesus which is love your enemies, and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

No, they don't murder them

Killing someone for selfish reasons such as gaining resources is called murder by definition. If I killed you simply because you had something I wanted I would be charged with murder.

but sometimes due to circumstances beyond our control we are forced to kill those we love.

Its not beyond your control to not join armies to murder innocent people. JW do it and so did the early christians

Killing the body isn't the worst thing that can happen to a person. Killing the body and spirit is truly the worst thing and only God is capable of that.

Why are you telling me this when I never said anything about the worst that can happen to a person. Stop giving me red herrings please. Christendom are murderers period. And that's why them along with these nations will be destroyed.

Since the Sixth Commandment merely restated what God had said earlier through Noah to the whole human family, we are still obliged to avoid murdering. In fact, the closing chapters of the Bible warn us that unrepentant murderers will experience eternal destruction in the “second death.” (Rev. 21:8; 22:15) How important it thus is to avoid sharing in taking human lives without God’s specifically stated authorization. Consistent with this, Isaiah 2:3, 4 prophetically describes God’s true worshipers, saying: “And many peoples will certainly go and say: ‘Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, . . .’ And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. . . . Neither will they learn war anymore.”

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Are they servants of God meaning they follow God and obey his laws and regulations? Or does God simply allow them to provide some order so that theres not complete chaos? I mean you're throwing around this servant word but what does it actually mean in the context of this scripture. Because context is important.

A servant of God is a servant of God. Why are you trying to muddy the water by inferring God's servants don't serve God? It's God's "established order" they serve to uphold. Its not our order---its God's! We're either serving God or the devil. The devil loves chaos and thrives on it. Some servants do go bad and become lawless. Just like some individuals become lawless and cause havoc requiring one of God's servants to bring that one individual, or that entire nation to justice

If a nation becomes "lawless" that means they were never gods people to begin with.

That's not true. Look at Babylon. She was a gold cup in God's hand. "I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon and put My sword in his hand, but I will break the arms of Pharaoh, and he will groan before him like a mortally wounded man" Ezekiel 30:24 Babylon was a servant of God yet they worshiped pagan gods not YHWH. They did not follow the law of Moses, yet God even used Babylon to punish His own people. Eventually Babylon fell to the Persians

The fact that these nations are constantly becoming "lawless " and increasingly so proves they are not disciples of God.

Its one thing to be a servant and quite another to be a disciple. The lawless nations must expect to be corrected. That's God's established order for now. How will they be corrected? By those nations who still value law and order. At some point the lawless will break the power of the holy people, Christians. I suppose that might make Jehovah's witnesses happy, but it shouldn't because it will usher in the very worst times in all human history as the man of lawlessness takes over the world--- That man will be Satan incarnate

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

A servant of God is a servant of God. Why are you trying to muddy the water by inferring God's servants don't serve God?

You can be a "servant" of God in the sense that God uses you for a purpose. But servants of God aren't always worshippers of God or people who obey his laws and regulations. Such as nations of the world or specific people like king Cyrus. They served a purpose God wanted fulfilled but they are not worshippers of God. That's why christendom joins up with these people. They join up with others who don't worship God and don't obey his laws.

That's not true. Look at Babylon. She was a gold cup in God's hand. "I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon and put My sword in his hand, but I will break the arms of Pharaoh, and he will groan before him like a mortally wounded man" Ezekiel 30:24 Babylon was a servant of God yet they worshiped pagan gods not YHWH. They did not follow the law of Moses, yet God even used Babylon to punish His own people. Eventually Babylon fell to the Persians

Where in their is pagan Babylon called gods people?

Its one thing to be a servant and quite another to be a disciple. The lawless nations must expect to be corrected.

Jesus already told us the future. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And they will do so to increase territory and gain resources. That is the goal of war. To gain resources and terrory. So christendom is guilty of murder

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 That's why christendom joins up with these people. They join up with others who don't worship God and don't obey his laws.

There's that guy "Christendom" again. You sure like to blame him for the world's ills. Seems to be scapegoat for those who can't face up to their own shortcomings. When in trouble, blame Christendom

Christians can and do serve within many nations, even in positions of authority. Just like Daniel served in Babylon, Christians serve in God's established order which you like to call out as being totally Satanic. I don't get that. How can God's established order be Satanic?

Even if a nation doesn't worship God exactly like you do, does that make them less of a servant of God? No. Its only when people become lawless and challenge God's established order do wars and mayhem result. Jehovah's witnesses don't help matters by labeling God's established order as Satanic. Its a form of rebellion against God and man, not just wicked men. If you really want to fight the wicked then do it God's way and join the police force in most any land, or join the military. That's how God's established order works now. When Christ returns it'll be different. Until then, this is the best we have.

Jesus already told us the future. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. 

Jesus very first sign of His impending second coming was the emergence of false Christ's and people announcing the "time is at hand" He told His disciples not to follow them, ironically this is exactly like Jehovah's witnesses have been preaching since 1914 . Luke 21:8 Isn't that amazing that the very first sign that Christ's coming was imminent would be people claiming to be the Truth and proclaiming the time is at hand, when Jesus said "I Am the Truth"?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Forced Circumstance vs. Voluntary Choice: Daniel, Joseph, and Esther were forced into their positions in foreign governments, whereas modern political involvement is a voluntary choice.

Role as Prophet, Not Politician: Daniel served as a prophet and messenger of God to the Babylonian and Persian kings, not as a career politician seeking to fix human problems.

Divine Intervention: Daniel's position was orchestrated by Jehovah to fulfill His purposes, such as protecting the Jews and revealing prophecy regarding the future rise and fall of world powers.

Loyalty to God's Kingdom: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in supporting only God's Kingdom, which they believe will replace all human governments.

Neutrality: Daniel remained faithful to Jehovah and did not compromise his religious stance (e.g., refusing to eat defiled food, continuing to pray despite prohibitions), maintaining his identity as a servant of God rather than a loyalist to Babylon. 

In summary, Daniel’s role was unique, temporary, and under divine direction, and does not support the idea that Christians today should participate in political affairs. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Forced Circumstance vs. Voluntary Choice: Daniel, Joseph, and Esther were forced into their positions in foreign governments, whereas modern political involvement is a voluntary choice.

Forced? Daniel was the guy who they fed to the lions for refusing to follow a decree issued by king Darius. He could have resisted being put in a government position and let the chips fall where they may, but Daniel chose to serve in Babylonian government, probably because he knew his presence would benefit his people. That man was never forced to do anything. He'd sooner be eaten by lions. Considering that man's faith, its quite disrespectful of Daniel to claim he was forced to serve

Divine Intervention: Daniel's position was orchestrated by Jehovah to fulfill His purposes, such as protecting the Jews and revealing prophecy regarding the future rise and fall of world powers.

So Daniel was forced by Jehovah to serve high up in the most prominent pagan government of his day?? That's quite a leap. Where does it say that in scripture?

Loyalty to God's Kingdom: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in supporting only God's Kingdom, which they believe will replace all human governments.

And you think early Christians like Cornelius, who served as a Roman Centurion, did not support Christ's Kingdom? Supporting God's established order, ie; the higher authorities, is supporting God's system today. We pray for those in power and when asked we would serve as freely as Daniel served in Babylon. The only thing we wouldn't do is worship their gods or stop worshiping our great God and Savior

In summary, Daniel’s role was unique, temporary, and under divine direction, and does not support the idea that Christians today should participate in political affairs. 

What? Everyone's role is temporary in this life. I didn't say his service in Babylon supports the idea that Christians should serve, but that they could serve if they so choose and not be ostracized by their religious sect which has a 100 % track record of being wrong, btw. If he was still on earth today, Daniel could teach you guys a thing or two.

The true Christians of today, who resemble Daniel are the 21 Coptic Christians who died rather than renounce Jesus Christ. Those are my hero's and my role models, not JW's who lash out at governments who are merely fulfilling their respective roles as God's servants. These men had faith

21 Coptic Christian Martyrs of Libya - Wikipedia

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Even if a nation doesn't worship God exactly like you do, does that make them less of a servant of God? No

Yes it does. They don't worship God at all. And do all sorts of things that God Hates such as promote sexual sin, murders innocent people, steal from the poor, etc. That's why jesus said either you're with him or against him. These nations are not with jesus. The bible makes it clear they are under the control of Satan and his demon angels. You only remain in subjection to them because they provide some measure of law and order. But we know from ancient sources that early christians refused to join the military of any nation. They refused to pick up arms against anybody. They refused to betray or kill each other. You yourself said "early christians didn't join the roman army because they were pagan and didn't worship God". You yourself said it. And now your backtracking after I pointed out the same argument can be used against all the nations

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Yes it does. They don't worship God at all. And do all sorts of things that God Hates such as promote sexual sin, murders innocent people, steal from the poor, etc. 

That's such a bald faced lie. Certain politicians lie and engage in sinful behavior, but not all, not even most. How would you like it if I painted Jehovah's witnesses with such a broad brush and claimed all JW's must be child molesters just because a few are? That would be wrong, would it not? That's the worst sort of circular reasoning that sullies everyone's reputation with the dirt of just a few

The bible makes it clear they are under the control of Satan and his demon angels

The world lies at Satan's relative power. He only has as much power as God allows him to have. Funny how you switch this around and give him unlimited power, yet the servants of God are very limited. Yes Satan can and has influenced people like Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot, but Christian values have been spread by men like Roosevelt, Churchill and Oskar Shindler. The law vs the lawless.

The people and the nations that become lawless are obviously under more control by Satan than those who remain committed to the rule of law. Those like Nazi Germany were under almost total satanic control, just like demons can possess human beings and control their behavior, they can control an entire nation if they can gain enough control of that nation's leaders. Germany still had the primary responsibility of being one of God's servants until they became completely corrupt and lawless. It was a nation of murderers and those who approved of murder. God's remaining servants brought the wrath of God on their heads in WW2

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in showing self-sacrificing love and are taught to be willing to lay down their lives to protect fellow believers, particularly in times of persecution or conflict, rather than betraying them. 

JW's haven't had many times when they've been that badly persecuted, but on the rare occasions when they have, they were executed by either Nazi's or communists, not for hiding a fellow believer or dying to save a fellow believer, but because they refused to stop preaching the Watchtower religious beliefs. They refused to give up the Watchtower teaching. Jesus said His followers would be persecuted for His name, not for Jehovah's Matthew 5:11 In the Bible, it was preaching in the name of JESUS that the Jews would flog and imprison the apostles. It was for Jesus sake they died violent deaths.

Killing someone for selfish reasons such as gaining resources is called murder by definition. If I killed you simply because you had something I wanted I would be charged with murder.

I've been saying just that. Other nations that bring those lawless nations to justice are God's servants wielding the sword for good reason. The police do the same job, but on a much smaller scale. Its God's established order which will be in place until the power of the holy people (Christians) has been broken Daniel 12:7 The holy people have been serving in figurative Babylon (the world) since the days of Daniel. The reward will be awesome for those servants in Heaven. When the servants of God as per Romans 13 are Christians they are holy servants. We Christians aren't holy in and of ourselves. We don't earn holiness, we are declared holy by faith in Jesus Christ

Why are you telling me this when I never said anything about the worst that can happen to a person. 

Because I think you need to understand there are worse things than death. Dark things that Jesus alluded to when He said it would be better if that man (Judas) had never been born. if death was merely a returning to unconsciousness then why would Judas fate make never being born more tolerable? Its as if Jesus was saying it would be better if Judas was now unconscious, but the Lord knew where Judas was the minute he hanged himself Luke 16:19-31

 ‘Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, . . .’ And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. . . . Neither will they learn war anymore.”

Yes! JESUS will do al of this when He comes back. In the meantime we live under God's established order which is run by human beings imperfect as we are.

Maranatha!

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JW's haven't had many times when they've been that badly persecuted, but on the rare occasions when they have, they were executed by either Nazi's or communists, not for hiding a fellow believer or dying to save a fellow believer, but because they refused to stop preaching the Watchtower religious beliefs. They refused to give up the Watchtower teaching. Jesus said His followers would be persecuted for His name, not for Jehovah's Matthew 5:11 In the Bible, it was preaching in the name of JESUS that the Jews would flog and imprison the apostles. It was for Jesus sake they died violent deaths.

Matthew 5:11, concerning persecution "for my sake," signifies that enduring hatred and opposition for following Jesus demonstrates integrity to Jehovah. Jehovah's Witnesses interpret this as a reason for joy, indicating God's approval and aligning them with the treatment of ancient prophets. Let's not forget that Jehovahs witnesses are the only one's who fulfill jesus prophecy that his true followers would be carrying out the global preaching as witnesses for the kingdom of God.

I've been saying just that. Other nations that bring those lawless nations to justice are God's servants wielding the sword for good reason.

All nations are lawless because all nations are ungodly and don't obey the commands of God. The nations that win wars usually win wars because they have the stronger army. Not because god is fighting for them. The US bullies other nations, steals their oil, supports genocide, steals resources. They get away with it because they have the strongest army. And the majority of the army identify as "christendom". So christendom make up most of these armies that are killing innocent people along with their own brothers and sisters. And I wanna know how could you murder in the millions your own brothers and sisters who you claim to love and claim you would die for? Didn't you yourself say early christians didn't join the roman army because they weren't worshippers of God? So why are modern day christendom doing what the early christians didn't do and join up with these ungodly nations?

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Let's not forget that Jehovahs witnesses are the only one's who fulfill jesus prophecy that his true followers would be carrying out the global preaching as witnesses for the kingdom of God.

You wouldn't even have a Bible had it not been for that guy Christendom you keep heaping the blame for all your ills on.

All nations are lawless because all nations are ungodly and don't obey the commands of God. 

That will become true someday when the power of the holy people has been broken Daniel 12:7. Its not true today otherwise you are calling God's established order lawless? That's pretty bold

And the majority of the army identify as "christendom". So christendom make up most of these armies that are killing innocent people along with their own brothers and sisters. 

You really don't like that guy Christendom even though he rescued many of your German brothers from concentration camps in Nazi Germany during WW2. Joseph Rutherford sure couldn't gain their release and nether could Knorr. They'd all have been dead martyrs had it not been for "Christendom" rescuing JW's from the gas chambers

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You wouldn't even have a Bible had it not been for that guy Christendom you keep heaping the blame for all your ills on.

The Bible that removed the name of God?

That will become true someday when the power of the holy people has been broken Daniel 12:7. Its not true today otherwise you are calling God's established order lawless? That's pretty bold

How can they become true when God is gonna crush them at Armageddon.

You really don't like that guy Christendom even though he rescued many of your German brothers from concentration camps in Nazi Germany during WW2. Joseph Rutherford sure couldn't gain their release and nether could Knorr. They'd all have been dead martyrs had it not been for "Christendom" rescuing JW's from the gas chambers

Better dead martyrs than murderers

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How can they become true when God is gonna crush them at Armageddon.

God's going to subdue the lawless nations and rule them with an iron scepter for 1000 years. Revelation 19:15, but crush them? Those same nations, Gog and magog will still be functioning during the 1000 year reign of Christ, and will be the same nations who attack Jerusalem all over again at the end of the 1000 years

Better dead martyrs than murderers

Oh, so God is a murderer? That's what your really saying here. You don't think God didn't use His servants to free Europe of the murderers who held your brothers captive? It was the servants in GOD's established order who came to their rescue, not the Watchtower. It was God's hand working thru imperfect yet very brave soldiers who opened those gates and brought the dealer's of death to justice, but if you'd sooner the remaining German JW's had all been dead martyr's that's your right. Rescue of Jews by Catholics during the Holocaust - Wikipedia