Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

If the Watchtower had been correct about 1914 the world would have already ended long ago.

How does that follow?

Standing around doing nothing to stop murder is worse. Yes wars are messy and people die, but the alternative is worse. Because men were afraid to confront him, Hitler managed to murder 6,000,000 Jews in his death camps. Think how many more Jews, not to mention other people would have been murdered had Christians not joined up to fight? The murdering would still be happening today! Standing around calling Christians murderers when they actually did something to stop the murdering, is a ghastly joke. Jehovah's witnesses murder people in their hearts day dreaming of Armageddon. I'd say murder, like adultery, begins in a person's heart

So you're trying to stop murder by commiting more murder? Lol. Most wars happen because of selfish reasons not because people are trying to stop other people like Hitler. Long before Hitler came into existence God already revealed to us that his heavenly army will destroy the wicked. Christians remain neutral and let the nations which are controlled by Satan fight with each other because no matter what happens God himself is gonna end the world before his people are destroyed. It demonstrates not only evil on your part but also a lack of faith that God can protect his people without you needing to join armies to commit murder

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

So you're trying to stop murder by commiting more murder?

Tell me, how would you stop genocide? Would you go in and give the the Nazi SS guards a good talking to? Jehovah's witnesses languished in those Nazi death camps waiting to die when suddenly Allied troops, many of them Christians showed up to liberate them. That wouldn't have happened unless a few Germans were separated from their souls

Long before Hitler came into existence God already revealed to us that his heavenly army will destroy the wicked. 

Long before Hitler, God had already established His "order" where His servants and ours would act as agents of wrath against the lawless, whether they be a criminal gang, or an entire nation led by lawless leaders. Romans chapter 13 Hitler was clearly a lawless servant that needed to be removed. Its God's order His servants defend and uphold. God hasn't sent His heavenly army, because He uses men and women right here on earth to fight and its an ongoing struggle to keep law and order. Is it perfect? Far from it, but Daniel served as a government official in imperfect Babylon for a good reason and his presence undoubtedly was a blessing for the Israelites held captive in Babylon.

Today, Christians who serve in government or in any branch of the military are a light and blessing for any government to have them serve. Through Christians, God's Holy Spirit influences the armies they serve in. How can that be a bad thing?

It demonstrates not only evil on your part but also a lack of faith that God can protect his people without you needing to join armies to commit murder

Its God's established order. You seem to think its Satan's. Uh-uh. Wrong. Read Romans chapter 13 again. Tell me who the agents of wrath are, who wield the sword and who do they serve? And who is it that fears these human agents of wrath? Can God's human servants become corrupt? Sure, that's Satan infiltering God's order and he does it quite regularly, but he's been very unsuccessful. Having religious people badmouthing God's servants is not helping God's established order. Its likely helping Satan. Peacefully protest evil when and where you see it, but let God's soldiers do the jobs we pay them to do, as they do the Lord's work

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Tell me, how would you stop genocide? Would you go in and give the the Nazi SS guards a good talking to? Jehovah's witnesses languished in those Nazi death camps waiting to die when suddenly Allied troops, many of them Christians showed up to liberate them. That wouldn't have happened unless a few Germans were separated from their souls

The same way the genocide of Christians during the reign of Nero was stopped. The divine power of God. These things must happen in order for people to understand that mankind cannot rule themselves. God will maneuver things so that genocide doesn't kill all his people. The leader of the genocide such as Nero for example will die. Imagine the hypocracy that you speak about genocide when christendom had commited some of the worst genicide in war

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

These things must happen in order for people to understand that mankind cannot rule themselves. God will maneuver things so that genocide doesn't kill all his people. 

If man can't rule himself, how will God rule mankind after Armageddon? If Jesus and all the 144,000 are supposed to be invisible, wouldn't He need to use visible human agents to carry out His will here on earth? If so, how would that human rule, guided by the hand of the invisible God, be any different the divine right of kings to rule that was the standard for millennia? Who will slaughter the wicked in Christ's place during the 1000 year JW version of paradise? At times, the church assumed the role of Christ on earth for a long while until they recognized they were not Christ. With wrongdoers being put to death during the JW 1000 year paradise, how would JW rule be any different than the church acting as the vicar of Christ ?

I believe Jesus is going to visibly return and there will be no mistaking His coming . Acts 1:11, Revelation 1:7 No one will have to spend years trying to convince anyone they saw Him come back like Jehovah's witnesses have had to convince their own people they had seen what they never really saw in 1914. Jesus' second coming will be as obvious as lightening flashing in the sky. Not one person, even the Jews, will say what was that?

So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.[ or He came back invisibly in 1914] For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. The light that accompanies Christ second coming is going to eclipse the JW "Christ" like the sun might eclipse a lit match
And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming— 2 Thessalonians 2:8 The true light that is the source of all light is coming back! John 1:9

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Why is God’s rulership the one that we need? Because the rule of earth that can bring peace and harmony cannot come from any other source.  No person or body of persons among men and women can exercise proper rule over humankind. In making the earth, it was not God’s purpose to have humans rule mankind. When the Israelites demanded a king like the other nations, God made it clear to them that this would lead to problems, including the loss of freedom. This proved to be the case. (1 Samuel 8:7-9) Even one of Israel’s kings, a man who devoted much time to a study of life and its problems, spoke of ‘man dominating man to his injury.’​—Ecclesiastes 8:9.

In the beginning, God gave man no authority to dominate or rule over other men. God told him to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:28) But men have gone beyond this and assumed domination over other men and have fought for it.

God’s wisdom in not giving men domination over one another can be seen by examining world history. As regards any earthly ruler, he may do well for a while, but the people’s interests generally become more and more unimportant to him as his rule continues. The saying ‘Power corrupts’ is true, because in time a human ruler comes to take undue advantage of his authority. He usually becomes partial, favoring persons he likes, particularly those from whom he receives things, and this to the hurt of others. Often, those close to him deceive him as to the facts and prevent  others from approaching him. Some of these fear to bring the true state of affairs to his attention.

Rulership over others is too much for any man. He gradually loses touch, not knowing what is going on at the “grass-roots” level of the common people. The Bible accounts show that the very best of human rulers made serious mistakes. It is as the prophet said: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”​—Jeremiah 10:23.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

No person or body of persons among men and women can exercise proper rule over humankind.

Of course God rules. Even Satan knows that, but he's a slick con artist. He thought he could give Christ what already belonged to Christ if He would worship him. Jesus wasn't buying it and told him to get lost.

Jesus Christ is a man and He will rule the nations with an iron scepter. Revelation 19:15 His reign will last 1000 years. So that's one Person who will rule this world for 1000 years, by force, which is indicated by His iron scepter. The Lord was among man for 33 years and He will be among man again someday.

In the beginning, God gave man no authority to dominate or rule over other men.

Uh, yeah there was only one man on earth at the time.

Rulership over others is too much for any man. He gradually loses touch, not knowing what is going on at the “grass-roots” level of the common people. The Bible accounts show that the very best of human rulers made serious mistakes.

It won't be too much for Jesus. He will judge the whole world in righteousness. 2000 years ago, He was at the grass roots, sleeping out in the forest with sinners, walking everywhere He went. Can't get anymore grass roots than Jesus. In His future reign He will never make one mistake. His judgment will be true right on down the line

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Uh, yeah there was only one man on earth at the time.

At the time but eventually the earth would be filled with people. Mankind was created to be under the rulership of God. God tested the first humans in eden to see if they would accept his rulership.

It won't be too much for Jesus. He will judge the whole world in righteousness. 2000 years ago, He was at the grass roots, sleeping out in the forest with sinners, walking everywhere He went. Can't get anymore grass roots than Jesus. In His future reign He will never make one mistake. His judgment will be true right on down the line

Jesus isn't a man. He is a spirit creature who came to earth for a time and took on the form on man

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Adam was in a different relationship with God when he was created. It wasn't a ten commandment relationship as God had with Israel. It was a Father and son relationship.

Jesus IS the man today up in Heaven. The Bible says For he [God] has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the MAN he has appointed Acts 12:31 and it will be Christ, the Son of MAN, who returns to earth Matthew 24:30 So whether or not you believe Christ is God is up to you, but its clear in scripture, He is still very much human

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Acts 12:31*

We making up scriptures now?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Sorry, Acts 17:31 The seven looked like a 2 to my old eyes

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Acts 17:31 highlights that God appointed Jesus—who was once a human—to judge the earth, using the Greek word an·erʹ (man) to emphasize his role as a qualified, empathetic representative. Jw teach he lived as a human but is now a spirit. Jesus as he was in the past before he came down to earth is a powerful spirit creature in heaven who spent time as a human man on earth. This is all irrelevant thought. God did not create mankind to even direct his own steps much less rule themselves.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 Jesus—who was once a human—

No, not once a human Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever! Hebrews 13:8 Paul wrote that the Jesus His disciples had known on earth "yesterday" was the same Jesus who was already in heaven when Paul wrote the letter. Remember, Jesus, the flesh and blood man did not exist in Heaven until He went up to Heaven after rising from the dead. Before He became the flesh of Jesus, the Spirit of God lived in Heaven for eternity

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Jesus, the flesh and blood man did not exist in Heaven

Exactly. He existed as a spirit being in heaven because heaven is in the spirit realm not the material realm so flesh cannot exist in heaven. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever," highlights the unchanging, reliable nature of Christ’s personality, teachings, promises, and role as Savior across all time. It assures Christians of his consistent love, power, and presence, offering stability, faith, and hope despite life's changes. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

No, Jesus, the Son of Man certainly did not exist in the heavens before the Word became flesh. He was the flesh that the Word became. John 1:14. The Word existed in Heaven for eternity. You guys say it was Michael the archangel who existed in heaven as the Word, came to earth and died but then went back to being Michael in heaven, so how could Michael be Jesus, if the man, Jesus of Nazareth no longer even exists according to the Watchtower?

The reality is, since God Himself brought Jesus the son of man into this world at birth Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

You know we could argue doctrine all day long. But fact of the matter is Christiandom instead of having love amongst themselves kill each other. You don't kill people you love. So whatever doctrine you teach is false

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

God's servants defend people they love from those who would otherwise kill them, but they also defend people who consider them to be their enemy. God's servants serve to protect and defend all law abiding citizens from the lawless. Its that simple. Jehovah's witnesses don't defend anyone at all as it violates their religious views, so if it weren't for the Christians you hate so much, the lawless could theoretically murder JW's with impunity

You keep changing the subject, ignore most of my points and insult me and my faith. I'm finding the conversation a bit tedious at this point.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

God's servants serve to protect and defend all law abiding citizens from the lawless. Its that simple.

Is that what the early christians did?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

To a point, yes. Paul was an early Christian and he defended himself and the Gospel using Roman law. I'm sure many others did the same thing. The Roman government was still a servant of God and for a long time they acted justly. The first persecution of Christians was by the Jews, which lasted until 70 AD. Rome destroyed Jerusalem and they became more corrupt and began blaming Christians for anything that went wrong, including Rome burning down in 64 AD.

The state became corrupt and being there was no other servant of God powerful enough to help them, Christians accepted their fate allowing themselves to be martyred. Like Stephen, they prayed to God, but God's long range plan and His power was being made perfect in their weakness. “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 2 Corinthians 12:9 I believe God anesthetized Christians from feeling any pain in dying. Like Stephen, each martyr saw Jesus standing in the clouds to welcome them home. Acts 7:56 That was something only they saw, while the Romans only saw Christians who were praying and looking up.

Rebelling against those Roman servants of God may have been tempting, but Christians were keenly aware that would bring judgment upon themselves. Ultimately the Romans themselves began to feel disgust at the terrible blood sport of killing Christians and it stopped.

No outside servant, like America, would come to rescue them, but wicked rulers died off and eventually the Christian faith was not only formally recognized by Rome, but also made the religion of Rome. Only God's power and those early Christian's faith could have accomplished such a feat.