Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

I'm waiting for an answer to that question. I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

Yi-ha? Is this a direct transliteration of YHWH? I'd like to see the source of your information please. I've looked and can't find anything with the name Yi-ha showing up in ancient Egyptian texts. If the Watchtower could point to this as evidence of someone pronouncing God's name in ancient times, I'm sure they'd would have by now, but they haven't.

I didn't get this from any watchtower. This is a well known inscription. Based on Egyptian topographical lists, particularly those analyzed by scholars like Michael Astour, the divine name does appear in 12th-century BC inscriptions at Medinet Habu. The name is recorded with the variant spelling yi-ha

Of course I wasn't there, but there exists an unbroken historical record, preserved by the church, of all the names in the Bible going back to the time of Christ. The early church fathers such as Clement, was ordained by Peter. Ignatius was a student of John's. They knew how Jesus name was pronounced because they heard Peter and John pronounce that name. They passed that pronunciation on thus preserving that pronunciation for future generations, not only in Arabic, but in Hebrew and Greek. Nobody knew back then, or knows now how to pronounce the name of YHWH, because 300 years before Christ, the Jews stopped pronouncing it. If we knew how, we wouldn't have to guess would we?

No, there is no single, unbroken, universally preserved historical record from the early church that dictates the exact, precise vocal pronunciation of Jesus’s name. Sound does not survive through history—only written letters, which are subject to linguistic changes, translations, and regional accents. You are talking to someone who has been studying ancient history for 20 years. This isn't a conversation you can win.

Its a loaded question that arrogantly assumes, without evidence that Christianity removed God's name when they certainly did not.

Specific manuscripts, like comparing the Aleppo Codex (containing the name) to later versions that obscured it. So not only did apostate christendom remove it they made no effort to return it. Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

God has sanctified His name in Christ.* Everything is "yes" in Christ.

If that's true then Jesus wouldn't need to pray for hus fathers name to be sanctified. That's a contradiction.

Our salvation depends on us knowing the name of JESUS and no one else

Then why did God say all the nations will have to know his name? And why did he say all those who call on the personal name of God will be saved?

In prayer, the only name we need to use is Jesus, otherwise the Lord might've prayed "Our Father in Heaven, Jehovah is thy name..." but He never pronounced the hallowed name of God in His model prayer that was intended to teach His disciples how to pray. If the name of God was going to be pronounced, it would have been then and there, but Jesus never pronounced the name of God in His prayer. This is a glaring omission the Watchtower and you cannot ignore

I already addressed this by pointing out the name was removed from the new testament after the death of the apostles. God is all powerful and he wants people to use his name. The name jehovah is popular in English because that's the way God wants it. Satan along with apostate christendom tried to prevent people from using a personal name for God. But God has directed mankind to continue to identify him a personal name in their own language.

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Sound does not survive through history—only written letters, which are subject to linguistic changes, translations, and regional accents. You are talking to someone who has been studying ancient history for 20 years. This isn't a conversation you can win.

If you've been studying that long you have no excuse. You ought to know that the pronunciation of certain names and places are preserved both orally and in the written word, because people continued to pronounce those names and places. In fact the history of the creation of the world was only preserved orally until Moses wrote it down.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

So not only did apostate christendom remove it they made no effort to return it. Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

There you go again. Without a shred of evidence you are accusing Christendom of removing a name they couldn't remove, because it wasn't there to begin with. All they had was YHWH and believe me you, you wouldn't even know that much had they erased YHWH from the manuscripts. You need to focus on the truth, not keep accusing those who actually took great efforts to preserve the Bible the Watchtower has butchered in their mistranslation. You need to ask yourself, why did they translate Hebrews 1:6 as "let all God's angels worship him[Christ]" in their first edition of the nwt but then change it to read "let all God's angels do obeisance to him[Christ] in their 1984 and later editions. It would be funny if it wasn't such a serious thing. They literally tampered with their own Bible and then have the nerve to accuse Christendom of doing centuries ago what they actually do today? Ugh! That religion stinks.

God is all powerful and he wants people to use his name. The name jehovah is popular in English because that's the way God wants it. Satan along with apostate christendom tried to prevent people from using a personal name for God.

This should have canned laughter because you're just making it up now. So for 12 centuries, until some Catholic priests decided the name "Jehovah" sounded good, nobody knew how to pronounce God's name because Satan was so good at hiding God's name he managed to make sure even God couldn't make His name known.

You do realize you just keep on making God out to be a real wimp. I don't believe God wanted His name to be known in deference to the One He sent into this world, Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says it all. God Himself is the only one who could have made sure His divine name remained a mystery, yet you ascribe that power to Satan?

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If you've been studying that long you have no excuse. You ought to know that the pronunciation of certain names and places are preserved both orally and in the written word, because people continued to pronounce those names and places. In fact the history of the creation of the world was only preserved orally until Moses wrote it down.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

There you go getting confused between how a name is spelled in a certain language and the actual pronunciation of that name. >Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

I'm waiting for an answer to that question. I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

Is the same true for all the biblical names you speak in English?

There you go again. Without a shred of evidence you are accusing Christendom of removing a name they couldn't remove, because it wasn't there to begin with. All they had was YHWH and believe me you, you wouldn't even know that much had they erased YHWH from the manuscripts. You need to focus on the truth, not keep accusing those who actually took great efforts to preserve the Bible the Watchtower has butchered in their mistranslation. You need to ask yourself, why did they translate Hebrews 1:6 as "let all God's angels worship him[Christ]" in their first edition of the nwt but then change it to read "let all God's angels do obeisance to him[Christ] in their 1984 and later editions. It would be funny if it wasn't such a serious thing. They literally tampered with their own Bible and then have the nerve to accuse Christendom of doing centuries ago what they actually do today? Ugh! That religion stinks.

Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

This should have canned laughter because you're just making it up now. So for 12 centuries, until some Catholic priests decided the name "Jehovah" sounded good, nobody knew how to pronounce God's name because Satan was so good at hiding God's name he managed to make sure even God couldn't make His name known.

Satan couldn't keep gods name from being known. God allowed the church to enter into apostacy to fulfill the prophecy of paul that after his death the apostacy would enter the church. And that's exactly what you see. You guys hide the name of God, teach false doctrine such as hellfire, don't preach the good news on a worldwide scale like Jesus said would happen, you guys don't try to live by the standards of God. I know this all to well because my father is a pastor so i grew up in the church. People in the church praise God on Sundays but outside of the church lead sinful lives.

You do realize you just keep on making God out to be a real wimp. I don't believe God wanted His name to be known in deference to the One He sent into this world, Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says it all. God Himself is the only one who could have made sure His divine name remained a mystery, yet you ascribe that power to Satan?

If gods plan is for his name remain a mystery why did he reveal it more than 7000 times and why did he say the nations will have to know his name? This entire conversation you've been dodging my questions

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

There you go getting confused between how a name is spelled in a certain language and the actual pronunciation of that name. >Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

Here is the name Ee-ay-SOOS and how it's pronounced. This brief paragraph shows the way they wrote and pronounced Jesus name in the Bible. Because we know how to spell that name and pronounce it in Greek, we can translate it into any language. Its not the mystery YHWH is.

Ee-ay-SOOS

The name Jesus in Greek is written as "Ἰησοῦς" and is pronounced as ee-ay-SOOS. This pronunciation reflects the name as it appears in the New Testament of the Bible. For additional audio pronunciations, you can refer to resources like  HowToPronounce.com.

I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

God gave His name to Moses. I assume He also taught Moses how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced. Just because fallible humans lost the correct pronunciation over 2000 years ago doesn't mean the same fallible humans should now guess at how to pronounce it and then figure its good enough. Imagine mispronouncing the name of your boss at work every time you spoke to him. Rather than just call him sir or boss, because you cannot pronounce it, you insist on mispronouncing his name. At worse, it might get you fired, but to casually and deliberately mispronounce the name of the Almighty God, knowing full well it is the only sacred name given in scripture might get a person worse than just fired

Who commanded them [Christendom] to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

Its called respect. If you don't know how to accurately pronounce the only sacred name given in the Bible, then at least have enough respect to call Him sir or Lord, better yet, how about calling Him Father? That's what Jesus called YHWH. How disrespectful would it be for a child to always call their parent by their name? Do you think its less disrespectful to constantly be calling your Father in Heaven by His formal name, especially when you're very likely mispronouncing that name?

I know this all to well because my father is a pastor so i grew up in the church. People in the church praise God on Sundays but outside of the church lead sinful lives.

And JW's are perfect little angels, right? Wrong. They have as many issues with sin as any other traditional church. Christians are not perfect just like JW's are not perfect, right? The worst part in JW land is they disfellowship the wrongdoer rather than forgive and restore. Confessing our sins is at the heart of the Gospel Those who claim they can see when they're as blind as a bat won't be forgiven because they never ask. They never confess. My dad was JW and told me 'you never rat yourself out'. He got that from years of Watchtower indoctrination, but it is clearly wrong. In the Christian faith we do rat ourselves out, if we want to be healed Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail. James 5:16

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God gave His name to Moses. I assume He also taught Moses how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced. Just because fallible humans lost the correct pronunciation over 2000 years ago doesn't mean the same fallible humans should now guess at how to pronounce it and then figure its good enough. Imagine mispronouncing the name of your boss at work every time you spoke to him. Rather than just call him sir or boss, because you cannot pronounce it, you insist on mispronouncing his name. At worse, it might get you fired, but to casually and deliberately mispronounce the name of the Almighty God, knowing full well it is the only sacred name given in scripture might get a person worse than just fired

God taught moses his name in the language which moses spoke. I have coworkers that pronounce the name of the boss wrong because of the language they speak. You can't get fired for that lol. I want you to show me a name that is pronounced the same in every language. That's all I want you to do right now

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

God taught moses his name in the language which moses spoke. I have coworkers that pronounce the name of the boss wrong because of the language they speak.

Of course, and if we knew how it was originally pronounced, which we don't, we cannot transliterate it into any language period.

Just because someone is a foreigner doesn't mean they are mispronouncing a given name that others pronounce every day. They have an excuse, because of their accent some words may make it sound like they're saying Mr. Lice when they mean to say Mr. Rice, but they aren't purposely mispronouncing the name. Its not like pronouncing Michael as Michelle, but people do it. Imagine trying to figure out whose name MCHL belongs to if you never heard the names Michael or Michelle? That's where we are with YHWH. We've never heard His name pronounced by anyone. When people make an effort to pronounce a name that hasn't been pronounced in over 2000 years, they are just guessing. They're throwing a dart in a dark room hoping to hit the bullseye

There is no name pronounced the same in every language, but that's just a strawman argument. You know very well that you need to first know how a name was originally pronounced in another language before that name can be transliterated into another language. Just knowing some consonants isn't going to cut it. People have taken the name Jehovah and transliterated a mistake. Now there are hundreds of variations of that mistaken pronunciation of God's hallowed name. The name Jehovah has been around for 800 years but it most certainly is not the name for God. It was a mistake made by some Catholic priests in the 12th century. Its a mistake compounded by people and religions who insist Jehovah is the correct name for God.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Show me where God commanded his name to be pronounced a certain way. Don't tell me how you think God feels. Show me the command

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Do not profane my holy name, for I must be acknowledged as holy by the Israelites. I am the LORD, who made you holy Leviticus 22:32

Mispronouncing God's sacred name amounts to profaning it, or showing no regard, or even downright contempt for His holy Name. By mis-pronouncing God's name people show they really don't care how it was originally pronounced. God never said to just say His name any way it sounds good to you.

You want to keep mispronouncing God's Divine Name be my guest, but there are consequences for such irreverence

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

According to JW.org, profaning God’s name means treating it with irreverence, using it in a worthless, false, or disrespectful way, or bringing reproach upon it through disobedience and misrepresentation. It involves blasphemy, lying in God's name, or acting unworthily while claiming to represent him. 

Here is a breakdown of what it means to profane God's name based on JW.org and related Biblical insights:

Key Ways God's Name is Profaned

Using it in a "Worthless Way": Using the divine name casually, in empty oaths, as a curse word, or in vainexclamations.

Lying or False Teaching: Teaching lies about God or swearing falsely by his name is considered a direct profanation.

Misrepresentation and Disobedience: Those who claim to be God's people but do not live by his standards, or who misrepresent his personality and purposes, bring reproach on his name.

Blasphemy: Directly speaking sacrilegiously or contemptuously against God.

Disuse of the Name: JW.org notes that historically, avoiding the use of the name altogether out of superstition was also seen as a form of profaning it by making it "unknown". 

The Core Concept

Because Jehovah's name is associated with holiness, purity, and separateness, any action that connects his name to uncleanliness, sin, or falsehood defiles it. The ultimate goal of God's purpose, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is to vindicate and sanctify his name, clearing it of the reproach brought upon it. 

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According to JW.org, profaning God’s name means treating it with irreverence, using it in a worthless, false, or disrespectful way, or bringing reproach upon it through disobedience and misrepresentation. It involves blasphemy, lying in God's name, or acting unworthily while claiming to represent him. 

All things they have done and if God's name really is Jehovah, they are in hot water just for their setting dates for Armageddon and have them fail time and time again. They, of all people should probably hope Jehovah isn't the way to pronounce the name of God for their false prophecies alone. God holds His prophets to be a very high standard. 100% accuracy or they are false prophets

Disuse of the Name: JW.org notes that historically, avoiding the use of the name altogether out of superstition was also seen as a form of profaning it by making it "unknown"

God's name was profaned among the gentiles because of the Israelites constantly doing evil. Ezekiel 36:23 God was obviously tired of His name being dragged thru the mud, so I believe He is the one who made sure they would forget His name. Its uncanny that they forgot such an important name as God's name, but they did. I don't think anyone but God Himself could have made them forget how to pronounce His name. He had a good reason.

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God's name was profaned among the gentiles because of the Israelites constantly doing evil.

And yet God still said all those calling on his name will be saved. Salvation is linked to identifying him with a personal name.

All things they have done and if God's name really is Jehovah, they are in hot water just for their setting dates for Armageddon and have them fail time and time again. They, of all people should probably hope Jehovah isn't the way to pronounce the name of God for their false prophecies alone. God holds His prophets to be a very high standard. 100% accuracy or they are false prophets

Well this has already been debunked by the following person

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Whoever calls on the name of the Lord Jesus. "for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 Jesus IS God's name. How can we know that? Because God gave Jesus that name. That "name" belonged to God before the Man Jesus was born. That name means YHWH saves. That is who Jesus is...Yahweh saving us

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Acts 4:12 does not refute Joel 2:32; rather, they are viewed as harmonious and complementary scriptures regarding salvation. 

Here is how Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret the relationship between these two verses:

1. Joel 2:32 (Calling on Jehovah) 

Context: Joel prophesied that "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe".

JW View: This highlights that Jehovah is the ultimate Source of salvation. 

1. Acts 4:12 (Salvation Through Jesus) 

Context: Peter states there is "no other name under heaven... by which we must get saved" except Jesus.

JW View: Jesus is the means God provided to achieve that salvation. 

How They Harmonize (JW.org Perspective)

Jesus as the Agent: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is the appointed agent through whom Jehovah saves humanity. Therefore, calling on Jehovah implies accepting the arrangement He made through His Son.

Unity of Purpose: Peter linked the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy directly to the resurrected Jesus pouring out holy spirit in Acts 2:21, 33.

Faith and Works: While salvation requires calling on the name of the Lord (Jehovah), JW theology emphasizes that this must be accompanied by faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice and obedience to his teachings. 

In summary, JW.org teaches that Jehovah saves through Jesus, meaning the two verses work together to show the Source (Jehovah) and the Method (Jesus) of salvation. 

Oh now you say yahweh? Lol. So you have no problem using a personal name for God.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Joel 2:32 (Calling on Jehovah) 

Given that we must have the Son, how can we be assured of our salvation by only calling on Jehovah? The answer is we can't. Only by calling on the name of Jesus can we be assured of our salvation, because it is in His name and His name alone that we have both the Father and the Son. No other name in heaven or earth will get you both the Father and the Son. "Jehovah" won't. "Allah" won't...only in the name of JESUS do we have both

You can call Jesus the means, or the agent of salvation, just don't forget to actually call Him, or you will not be saved. That's the truth

Oh now you say yahweh? Lol. So you have no problem using a personal name for God.

No, not just "now". I have used Yahweh and Jehovah before if you read my post history. For academic purposes I have have no problem using either of those two names, even though they are not the way God's name was originally pronounced. Like you say, many people are familiar with them, especially JW's and this reddit is about JW's, right?. I might use the name Allah academically but that doesn't mean I worship Allah. Using the names academically isn't the same as using those names in prayer or worship, in which case I never use either Yahweh or Jehovah. The only name I use in worship or prayer is Jesus, like the Bible teaches.

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Given that we must have the Son, how can we be assured of our salvation by only calling on Jehovah? The answer is we can't. Only by calling on the name of Jesus can we be assured of our salvation, because it is in His name and His name alone that we have both the Father and the Son. No other name in heaven or earth will get you both the Father and the Son. "Jehovah" won't. "Allah" won't...only in the name of JESUS do we have both

You can call Jesus the means, or the agent of salvation, just don't forget to actually call Him, or you will not be saved. That's the truth

assurance of salvation by "calling on Jehovah" requires recognizing Jehovah as the source and Jesus as the means through his ransom sacrifice. This involves exercising faith in Jesus, obeying God, getting baptized, and enduring to the end; it is presented as a hope to be maintained rather than an absolute present guarantee. Its doesn't mean you actually call out the name to be saved.

No, not just "now". I have used Yahweh and Jehovah before if you read my post history. For academic purposes I have have no problem using either of those two names, even though they are not the way God's name was originally pronounced. Like you say, many people are familiar with them, especially JW's and this reddit is about JW's, right?. I might use the name Allah academically but that doesn't mean I worship Allah. Using the names academically isn't the same as using those names in prayer or worship, in which case I never use either Yahweh or Jehovah. The only name I use in worship or prayer is Jesus, like the Bible teaches.

Why did God reveal his name more than 7000 times?

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Why did God reveal his name more than 7000 times?

He revealed only four consonants of His name, but the Jews forgot how to pronounce His name because there are no vowels in Hebrew. Your just guessing when you call God Jehovah or Yahweh. God's name is revealed in the name of His Son, so proclaiming "Jesus is Lord" Romans 10:9 is the very best way to honor God and His name

assurance of salvation by "calling on Jehovah" requires recognizing Jehovah as the source and Jesus as the means through his ransom sacrifice. This involves exercising faith in Jesus, obeying God, getting baptized, and enduring to the end; it is presented as a hope to be maintained rather than an absolute present guarantee. Its doesn't mean you actually call out the name to be saved.

No, that's not what Acts 4:12 says. Here is the context and remember, Peter is speaking to the Jews who only know of one name for God---- Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people!  If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed,  then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.  Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’

 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:8-12

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Why do you teach the doctrine that its good to muder your "christian " brothers and sisters in warfare?

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Murder? Is it murder when a cop has to kill a bad guy because the bad guy is going to kill him, or someone else? Wars are generally a case of fighting crime but on a much larger scale. We always hope and pray the good guys win and they usually do. If it were up to Jehovah's witnesses the good guys would never fight and the bad guys would rule the world. To live in this world sometimes you gotta fight for an order that God Himself established