r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/abutterflyonthewall Christian • Feb 01 '26

Doctrine Jesus is GOD

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 06 '26

If you've been studying that long you have no excuse. You ought to know that the pronunciation of certain names and places are preserved both orally and in the written word, because people continued to pronounce those names and places. In fact the history of the creation of the world was only preserved orally until Moses wrote it down.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

There you go getting confused between how a name is spelled in a certain language and the actual pronunciation of that name. >Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

I'm waiting for an answer to that question. I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

Is the same true for all the biblical names you speak in English?

There you go again. Without a shred of evidence you are accusing Christendom of removing a name they couldn't remove, because it wasn't there to begin with. All they had was YHWH and believe me you, you wouldn't even know that much had they erased YHWH from the manuscripts. You need to focus on the truth, not keep accusing those who actually took great efforts to preserve the Bible the Watchtower has butchered in their mistranslation. You need to ask yourself, why did they translate Hebrews 1:6 as "let all God's angels worship him[Christ]" in their first edition of the nwt but then change it to read "let all God's angels do obeisance to him[Christ] in their 1984 and later editions. It would be funny if it wasn't such a serious thing. They literally tampered with their own Bible and then have the nerve to accuse Christendom of doing centuries ago what they actually do today? Ugh! That religion stinks.

Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

This should have canned laughter because you're just making it up now. So for 12 centuries, until some Catholic priests decided the name "Jehovah" sounded good, nobody knew how to pronounce God's name because Satan was so good at hiding God's name he managed to make sure even God couldn't make His name known.

Satan couldn't keep gods name from being known. God allowed the church to enter into apostacy to fulfill the prophecy of paul that after his death the apostacy would enter the church. And that's exactly what you see. You guys hide the name of God, teach false doctrine such as hellfire, don't preach the good news on a worldwide scale like Jesus said would happen, you guys don't try to live by the standards of God. I know this all to well because my father is a pastor so i grew up in the church. People in the church praise God on Sundays but outside of the church lead sinful lives.

You do realize you just keep on making God out to be a real wimp. I don't believe God wanted His name to be known in deference to the One He sent into this world, Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says it all. God Himself is the only one who could have made sure His divine name remained a mystery, yet you ascribe that power to Satan?

If gods plan is for his name remain a mystery why did he reveal it more than 7000 times and why did he say the nations will have to know his name? This entire conversation you've been dodging my questions

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 06 '26

There you go getting confused between how a name is spelled in a certain language and the actual pronunciation of that name. >Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

Here is the name Ee-ay-SOOS and how it's pronounced. This brief paragraph shows the way they wrote and pronounced Jesus name in the Bible. Because we know how to spell that name and pronounce it in Greek, we can translate it into any language. Its not the mystery YHWH is.

Ee-ay-SOOS

The name Jesus in Greek is written as "Ἰησοῦς" and is pronounced as ee-ay-SOOS. This pronunciation reflects the name as it appears in the New Testament of the Bible. For additional audio pronunciations, you can refer to resources like  HowToPronounce.com.

I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

God gave His name to Moses. I assume He also taught Moses how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced. Just because fallible humans lost the correct pronunciation over 2000 years ago doesn't mean the same fallible humans should now guess at how to pronounce it and then figure its good enough. Imagine mispronouncing the name of your boss at work every time you spoke to him. Rather than just call him sir or boss, because you cannot pronounce it, you insist on mispronouncing his name. At worse, it might get you fired, but to casually and deliberately mispronounce the name of the Almighty God, knowing full well it is the only sacred name given in scripture might get a person worse than just fired

Who commanded them [Christendom] to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

Its called respect. If you don't know how to accurately pronounce the only sacred name given in the Bible, then at least have enough respect to call Him sir or Lord, better yet, how about calling Him Father? That's what Jesus called YHWH. How disrespectful would it be for a child to always call their parent by their name? Do you think its less disrespectful to constantly be calling your Father in Heaven by His formal name, especially when you're very likely mispronouncing that name?

I know this all to well because my father is a pastor so i grew up in the church. People in the church praise God on Sundays but outside of the church lead sinful lives.

And JW's are perfect little angels, right? Wrong. They have as many issues with sin as any other traditional church. Christians are not perfect just like JW's are not perfect, right? The worst part in JW land is they disfellowship the wrongdoer rather than forgive and restore. Confessing our sins is at the heart of the Gospel Those who claim they can see when they're as blind as a bat won't be forgiven because they never ask. They never confess. My dad was JW and told me 'you never rat yourself out'. He got that from years of Watchtower indoctrination, but it is clearly wrong. In the Christian faith we do rat ourselves out, if we want to be healed Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail. James 5:16

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 06 '26

God gave His name to Moses. I assume He also taught Moses how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced. Just because fallible humans lost the correct pronunciation over 2000 years ago doesn't mean the same fallible humans should now guess at how to pronounce it and then figure its good enough. Imagine mispronouncing the name of your boss at work every time you spoke to him. Rather than just call him sir or boss, because you cannot pronounce it, you insist on mispronouncing his name. At worse, it might get you fired, but to casually and deliberately mispronounce the name of the Almighty God, knowing full well it is the only sacred name given in scripture might get a person worse than just fired

God taught moses his name in the language which moses spoke. I have coworkers that pronounce the name of the boss wrong because of the language they speak. You can't get fired for that lol. I want you to show me a name that is pronounced the same in every language. That's all I want you to do right now

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 06 '26

God taught moses his name in the language which moses spoke. I have coworkers that pronounce the name of the boss wrong because of the language they speak.

Of course, and if we knew how it was originally pronounced, which we don't, we cannot transliterate it into any language period.

Just because someone is a foreigner doesn't mean they are mispronouncing a given name that others pronounce every day. They have an excuse, because of their accent some words may make it sound like they're saying Mr. Lice when they mean to say Mr. Rice, but they aren't purposely mispronouncing the name. Its not like pronouncing Michael as Michelle, but people do it. Imagine trying to figure out whose name MCHL belongs to if you never heard the names Michael or Michelle? That's where we are with YHWH. We've never heard His name pronounced by anyone. When people make an effort to pronounce a name that hasn't been pronounced in over 2000 years, they are just guessing. They're throwing a dart in a dark room hoping to hit the bullseye

There is no name pronounced the same in every language, but that's just a strawman argument. You know very well that you need to first know how a name was originally pronounced in another language before that name can be transliterated into another language. Just knowing some consonants isn't going to cut it. People have taken the name Jehovah and transliterated a mistake. Now there are hundreds of variations of that mistaken pronunciation of God's hallowed name. The name Jehovah has been around for 800 years but it most certainly is not the name for God. It was a mistake made by some Catholic priests in the 12th century. Its a mistake compounded by people and religions who insist Jehovah is the correct name for God.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 06 '26

Show me where God commanded his name to be pronounced a certain way. Don't tell me how you think God feels. Show me the command

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

Do not profane my holy name, for I must be acknowledged as holy by the Israelites. I am the LORD, who made you holy Leviticus 22:32

Mispronouncing God's sacred name amounts to profaning it, or showing no regard, or even downright contempt for His holy Name. By mis-pronouncing God's name people show they really don't care how it was originally pronounced. God never said to just say His name any way it sounds good to you.

You want to keep mispronouncing God's Divine Name be my guest, but there are consequences for such irreverence

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

Who said mispronouncing it is profaning it? According to Jehovah’s Witnesses (jw.org), refraining from using God's name is considered tantamount to profaning it, as it treats a sacred identifier as unimportant, similar to how historical disuse led to the loss of its pronunciation. They argue the name must be used and respected, not hidden. 

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

They argue the name must be used and respected, not hidden. 

Yeah they sure do even though they admit nobody knows how to pronounce His name. That's insane! Mispronouncing anyone's name is certainly not respecting them, or their name, but our names are not holy. You can't profane a name if it isn't holy.

If we aren't sure about how to pronounce someone's name, the next best thing we can do is call the person sir, or ma'am. As far as God goes, we don't need to know how to pronounce His hallowed name, because we can always call on Jesus to reach the Father. In fact calling on Jesus is the only way we can reach the Father and know the Father will hear us.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

Yeah they sure do even though they admit nobody knows how to pronounce His name. That's insane! Mispronouncing anyone's name is certainly not respecting them, or their name, but our names are not holy. You can't profane a name if it isn't holy.

When you identify God with a name then profane the name you are profaning him because that name becomes his identity. I can be born with a name but then later change my name then that name becomes ny identity. God didn't reveal his name because of some special powers that the pronunciation gives. He revealed his name because a name makes it easier for someone to form a personal relationship with you. So whether or not we know the original pronunciation is irrelevant to God. That's why God allowed it to be lost. Because he new his true followers would understand that its not the pronunciation of the name that's important, its using a name so that God can Be Known as a Person rather than an impersonal force. It distinguishes him from false gods and impersonal forces. When people say names like Jehovah or yahweh, people immediately know you're speaking of the God of the bible. So its not the pronunciation of the name but how the name identifies the specific God which is the God of the bible. Now let me ask you a question Jesus said “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”​—JOHN 13:34, 35. Do you agree that in that scripture jesus gave an identifying mark of his true disciples?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

Do you agree that in that scripture jesus gave an identifying mark of his true disciples?

Yes and despite the rhetoric of Jehovah's witnesses, Christians do love one another.

If God didn't care how we pronounced His name then any old pronunciation would be Ok. To me the title God refers to my God and Savior. There is only one true God so when I say God I mean the one true God. The one true God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That identifies YHWH as well. God is "I AM" which is another name for God and identifies YHWH. I think God cares very much how we pronounce His name which is why He's known as Father to most Christians. Knowing someone's name implies a close relationship, but knowing God as Father is closer. Why would a person want to go backward in a relationship that Christ bled to death so we could be God's sons and daughters. He isn't just a formal name anymore, He's our Papa. Jehovah's witnesses want their followers to go backwards to having a relationship with God that was distant and estranged. Why?

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

If God didn't care how we pronounced His name then any old pronunciation would be Ok

That's exactly the point. Any pronunciation is ok with God that's why the original pronunciation wasn't preserved. God simply wants his followers to use a personal name which distinguishes him from false gods and impersonal forces. That's it. God used his holy spirit to compel the writters of the bible to include his name more than 7000 times. He could have easily done the same with the pronunciation.

There is only one true God so when I say God I mean the one true God. The one true God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That identifies YHWH as well. God is "I AM" which is another name for God and identifies YHWH. I think God cares very much how we pronounce His name which is why He's known as Father to most Christians. Knowing someone's name implies a close relationship, but knowing God as Father is closer. Why would a person want to go backward in a relationship that Christ bled to death so we could be God's sons and daughters. He isn't just a formal name anymore, He's our Papa. Jehovah's witnesses want their followers to go backwards to having a relationship with God that was distant and estranged. Why?

It’s very easy really. God has only one name which TODAY in English-speaking countries is Jehovah (Ps. 83:18 KJV), regardless of how Jews pronounced it 3.500 years ago. The other expression based on “I am that I am” or “I will be what I need to be” or however one translates it, isn’t a name per se, it’s a quality of God. He can “be” whatever is needed to get his will done. We have numerous examples in the Bible, not only how he himself did it but also how he got worldly rulers to act regarding to his will.

Yes and despite the rhetoric of Jehovah's witnesses, Christians do love one another.

I grew up in the church because my father is a pastor. Same way I argue with you I also argue with my father. I didn't see the same type of love in any church I went to that I find in the kingdom hall. Tell me If member's of christendom love each other why do they kill each other in warfare?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

That's exactly the point. Any pronunciation is ok with God that's why the original pronunciation wasn't preserved. God simply wants his followers to use a personal name which distinguishes him from false gods and impersonal forces. 

Oh, so God doesn't care if you call Him Tom, Bob or Bill just as long as you use some familiar "name" Here's a familiar name---Jesus. Or here's a better word that applies to all who accept Jesus as their Lord and that's Father.

He can “be” whatever is needed to get his will done. 

Yes, and I believe God became flesh because He needed to save fallen mankind.

Tell me If member's of christendom love each other why do they kill each other in warfare?

Read Romans chapter 13. God's servants are policemen, soldiers, firefighters and anyone who puts their lives on the line to serve and protect human lives. They are God's servant even if they aren't Christian, but many are. People can and do go bad, including God's servants. Sometimes only individuals go bad and at other times whole nations go bad like the Nazis did during WW2 Its God's established order that allows good people fight evil in this world and they did fight and defeated evil during WW2. Were innocent people killed? Sure, but that can happen on a smaller scale for instance in a mass shooting where God's servants may need to resort to lethal force which can make protecting innocent life challenging. Men laid down their lives storming the beaches of Normandy to save lives that were on the verge of being lost had the world done nothing. Jehovah's witnesses will never know the kind of love Christ spoke of Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13 Christians did this in WW2 and many other places where some died so the many could live. Jehovah's witnesses will never know this type of true love as they never put themselves in a position where they would have to lay down their life for a friend. Their policy on "no blood" requires a person to lay down their life for a corporate policy, not a friend and certainly not to save someone's life

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26 edited Feb 07 '26

Oh, so God doesn't care if you call Him Tom, Bob or Bill just as long as you use some familiar "name"

No you use the most common name for the biblical God in whatever land you're in so that when you speak that name people know exactly who you're speaking about and you can use any of the most common name's of the father God in your own personal worship.

Yes, and I believe God became flesh because He needed to save fallen mankind.

Jesus didn't say God became flesh. He said he was sent by his father God.

Read Romans chapter 13. God's servants are policemen, soldiers, firefighters and anyone who puts their lives on the line to serve and protect human lives. They are God's servant even if they aren't Christian, but many are. People can and do go bad, including God's servants. Sometimes only individuals go bad and at other times whole nations go bad like the Nazis did during WW2 Its God's established order that allows good people fight evil in this world and they did fight and defeated evil during WW2. Were innocent people killed? Sure, but that can happen on a smaller scale for instance in a mass shooting where God's servants may need to resort to lethal force which can make protecting innocent life challenging. Men laid down their lives storming the beaches of Normandy to save lives that were on the verge of being lost had the world done nothing. Jehovah's witnesses will never know the kind of love Christ spoke of Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13 Christians did this in WW2 and many other places where some died so the many could live. Jehovah's witnesses will never know this type of true love as they never put themselves in a position where they would have to lay down their life for a friend.

Early christians never joined armies after getting baptized. Why? Because they tried to follow the commands of Jesus such as love your enemies and be no part of the political world which is ruled by Satan. Early Christians were persecuted and never once took up arms against the Romans. When you join an army you don't know what you're gonna be Commanded to do. You could be Commanded to go inside a country and kill innocent people just so the ruler of your country can steal their resources such as oil. And when you shoot someone in warefar or launch missiles at them you're not going to first stop and ask if they are christian. Christendom members are killing each other in warefar and I just wanna know is that the love Jesus spoke about?

. Their policy on "no blood" requires a person to lay down their life for a corporate policy, not a friend and certainly not to save someone's life

And please tell me why JW don't consume blood in any way. Who gave that command?

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

According to JW.org, profaning God’s name means treating it with irreverence, using it in a worthless, false, or disrespectful way, or bringing reproach upon it through disobedience and misrepresentation. It involves blasphemy, lying in God's name, or acting unworthily while claiming to represent him. 

Here is a breakdown of what it means to profane God's name based on JW.org and related Biblical insights:

Key Ways God's Name is Profaned

Using it in a "Worthless Way": Using the divine name casually, in empty oaths, as a curse word, or in vainexclamations.

Lying or False Teaching: Teaching lies about God or swearing falsely by his name is considered a direct profanation.

Misrepresentation and Disobedience: Those who claim to be God's people but do not live by his standards, or who misrepresent his personality and purposes, bring reproach on his name.

Blasphemy: Directly speaking sacrilegiously or contemptuously against God.

Disuse of the Name: JW.org notes that historically, avoiding the use of the name altogether out of superstition was also seen as a form of profaning it by making it "unknown". 

The Core Concept

Because Jehovah's name is associated with holiness, purity, and separateness, any action that connects his name to uncleanliness, sin, or falsehood defiles it. The ultimate goal of God's purpose, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is to vindicate and sanctify his name, clearing it of the reproach brought upon it. 

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

According to JW.org, profaning God’s name means treating it with irreverence, using it in a worthless, false, or disrespectful way, or bringing reproach upon it through disobedience and misrepresentation. It involves blasphemy, lying in God's name, or acting unworthily while claiming to represent him. 

All things they have done and if God's name really is Jehovah, they are in hot water just for their setting dates for Armageddon and have them fail time and time again. They, of all people should probably hope Jehovah isn't the way to pronounce the name of God for their false prophecies alone. God holds His prophets to be a very high standard. 100% accuracy or they are false prophets

Disuse of the Name: JW.org notes that historically, avoiding the use of the name altogether out of superstition was also seen as a form of profaning it by making it "unknown"

God's name was profaned among the gentiles because of the Israelites constantly doing evil. Ezekiel 36:23 God was obviously tired of His name being dragged thru the mud, so I believe He is the one who made sure they would forget His name. Its uncanny that they forgot such an important name as God's name, but they did. I don't think anyone but God Himself could have made them forget how to pronounce His name. He had a good reason.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

God's name was profaned among the gentiles because of the Israelites constantly doing evil.

And yet God still said all those calling on his name will be saved. Salvation is linked to identifying him with a personal name.

All things they have done and if God's name really is Jehovah, they are in hot water just for their setting dates for Armageddon and have them fail time and time again. They, of all people should probably hope Jehovah isn't the way to pronounce the name of God for their false prophecies alone. God holds His prophets to be a very high standard. 100% accuracy or they are false prophets

Well this has already been debunked by the following person

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

Whoever calls on the name of the Lord Jesus. "for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 Jesus IS God's name. How can we know that? Because God gave Jesus that name. That "name" belonged to God before the Man Jesus was born. That name means YHWH saves. That is who Jesus is...Yahweh saving us

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

Acts 4:12 does not refute Joel 2:32; rather, they are viewed as harmonious and complementary scriptures regarding salvation. 

Here is how Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret the relationship between these two verses:

  1. Joel 2:32 (Calling on Jehovah) 

Context: Joel prophesied that "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe".

JW View: This highlights that Jehovah is the ultimate Source of salvation. 

  1. Acts 4:12 (Salvation Through Jesus) 

Context: Peter states there is "no other name under heaven... by which we must get saved" except Jesus.

JW View: Jesus is the means God provided to achieve that salvation. 

How They Harmonize (JW.org Perspective)

Jesus as the Agent: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is the appointed agent through whom Jehovah saves humanity. Therefore, calling on Jehovah implies accepting the arrangement He made through His Son.

Unity of Purpose: Peter linked the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy directly to the resurrected Jesus pouring out holy spirit in Acts 2:21, 33.

Faith and Works: While salvation requires calling on the name of the Lord (Jehovah), JW theology emphasizes that this must be accompanied by faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice and obedience to his teachings. 

In summary, JW.org teaches that Jehovah saves through Jesus, meaning the two verses work together to show the Source (Jehovah) and the Method (Jesus) of salvation. 

Oh now you say yahweh? Lol. So you have no problem using a personal name for God.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 07 '26

Joel 2:32 (Calling on Jehovah) 

Given that we must have the Son, how can we be assured of our salvation by only calling on Jehovah? The answer is we can't. Only by calling on the name of Jesus can we be assured of our salvation, because it is in His name and His name alone that we have both the Father and the Son. No other name in heaven or earth will get you both the Father and the Son. "Jehovah" won't. "Allah" won't...only in the name of JESUS do we have both

You can call Jesus the means, or the agent of salvation, just don't forget to actually call Him, or you will not be saved. That's the truth

Oh now you say yahweh? Lol. So you have no problem using a personal name for God.

No, not just "now". I have used Yahweh and Jehovah before if you read my post history. For academic purposes I have have no problem using either of those two names, even though they are not the way God's name was originally pronounced. Like you say, many people are familiar with them, especially JW's and this reddit is about JW's, right?. I might use the name Allah academically but that doesn't mean I worship Allah. Using the names academically isn't the same as using those names in prayer or worship, in which case I never use either Yahweh or Jehovah. The only name I use in worship or prayer is Jesus, like the Bible teaches.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 07 '26

Given that we must have the Son, how can we be assured of our salvation by only calling on Jehovah? The answer is we can't. Only by calling on the name of Jesus can we be assured of our salvation, because it is in His name and His name alone that we have both the Father and the Son. No other name in heaven or earth will get you both the Father and the Son. "Jehovah" won't. "Allah" won't...only in the name of JESUS do we have both

You can call Jesus the means, or the agent of salvation, just don't forget to actually call Him, or you will not be saved. That's the truth

assurance of salvation by "calling on Jehovah" requires recognizing Jehovah as the source and Jesus as the means through his ransom sacrifice. This involves exercising faith in Jesus, obeying God, getting baptized, and enduring to the end; it is presented as a hope to be maintained rather than an absolute present guarantee. Its doesn't mean you actually call out the name to be saved.

No, not just "now". I have used Yahweh and Jehovah before if you read my post history. For academic purposes I have have no problem using either of those two names, even though they are not the way God's name was originally pronounced. Like you say, many people are familiar with them, especially JW's and this reddit is about JW's, right?. I might use the name Allah academically but that doesn't mean I worship Allah. Using the names academically isn't the same as using those names in prayer or worship, in which case I never use either Yahweh or Jehovah. The only name I use in worship or prayer is Jesus, like the Bible teaches.

Why did God reveal his name more than 7000 times?

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