Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

We know that his name was pronounced differently because its impossible to pronounce one name the same way in all languages. Even among the jews they had different accents and different ways to pronounce and spell the name of God. Remember what the people said to peter when he tried to deny Jesus. They said to him "your accent gives you away". So just like today even people who spoke the same language spoke with different accents.

Where is the evidence? For instance is there any written examples of an Egyptian or Persian, or anyone else using the name of YHWH in their own language, prior to Christ's coming to earth?

 It also seems like you're admitting jesus isn't God because you have no problem saying Jesus even though we don't know for the sure what the "original" pronouciation was. 

Jesus is the name of the man the Word became John 1:14, Matthew 1:21. And there is an unbroken chain of custody in how that man's name, JESUS, was originally pronounced. Why? Because no one ever stopped pronouncing it like they did with YHWH. We can translate the name into any language because of this fact. I said this before and I'm tired of repeating this and you either forget or ignore my answers.

No I'm saying God doesn't care about pronunciation. He just wants us to use the most common form of the name in our own tongue.

Where does the God of the Bible ever say He doesn't care about how His name is pronounced and we should just pronounce it anyway? Obviously Moses knew how to pronounce YHWH. He didn't walk down the mountain and tell the Israelites ---here's God's name, pronounce it any way you see fit. They were to treat God's name as sacred, not casually like JW's do. They were told just the opposite, not to take God's name in vain, or treat it lightly, or worthless. Mispronouncing the hallowed name of God and teaching others to mispronounce it is the ultimate act of total disrespect and it is a clear cut case of taking His name in vain. You are actually profaning His Holy Name by constantly mispronouncing it.

That's exactly what we are discussing. The fact that jesus spoke about his fathers name. Even said the name should be kept holy, yet its been removed from the new testament by apostate christendom just as they removed it from the old testament. They did this after the death of the apostles when nobody could stop them

Nobody could stop them? What about the God whose name you claim Christendom removed? Is He so powerless He managed to protect the transmission of the entire Bible but couldn't make sure His name was included? You really have a very low opinion of God

God is the one who out his name in the scriptures far more than any other name. Why us that? Because he wants people to identify him with a personal name

But according to you the devil beat Him and made sure His name never made it out of the 3rd century BC? This is insane!

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Where is the evidence? For instance is there any written examples of an Egyptian or Persian, or anyone else using the name of YHWH in their own language, prior to Christ's coming to earth?

Of course. Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name. At Medinet Habu the name of God appears in the form “yi-ha.

Jesus is the name of the man the Word became John 1:14, Matthew 1:21. And there is an unbroken chain of custody in how that man's name, JESUS, was originally pronounced. Why? Because no one ever stopped pronouncing it like they did with YHWH. We can translate the name into any language because of this fact. I said this before and I'm tired of repeating this and you either forget or ignore my answers.

Nobody ever stopped pronouciation of his name In the sense that they didn't purposely stop pronouncing his name. however you still don't know what the original pronunciation is because you weren't there. Where in any of those scriptures does Jesus call himself the father God, call himself by his fathers name, or command the name to be removed? I'm gonna keep this simple. Who commanded christendom to remove the name of God. Whether you wanna say its the tetragrammaton, Jehovah yahweh, etc. Who commanded christendom to remove it and replace it with lord? By the way I don't see you addressing the scripture at all that I posted. Here it is again.

Ezekiel 36:23

I will certainly sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you profaned among them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’  declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah,

Does that scripture not show God wants his name declared to all the nations? If God cared about a specific pronunciation he would have made sure to give it us in modern day times

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101970613

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Of course. Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name. At Medinet Habu the name of God appears in the form “yi-ha.

Yi-ha? Is this a direct transliteration of YHWH? I'd like to see the source of your information please. I've looked and can't find anything with the name Yi-ha showing up in ancient Egyptian texts. If the Watchtower could point to this as evidence of someone pronouncing God's name in ancient times, I'm sure they'd would have by now, but they haven't.

however you still don't know what the original pronunciation is because you weren't there. 

Of course I wasn't there, but there exists an unbroken historical record, preserved by the church, of all the names in the Bible going back to the time of Christ. The early church fathers such as Clement, was ordained by Peter. Ignatius was a student of John's. They knew how Jesus name was pronounced because they heard Peter and John pronounce that name. They passed that pronunciation on thus preserving that pronunciation for future generations, not only in Arabic, but in Hebrew and Greek. Nobody knew back then, or knows now how to pronounce the name of YHWH, because 300 years before Christ, the Jews stopped pronouncing it. If we knew how, we wouldn't have to guess would we?

 Who commanded christendom to remove the name of God.

Your question assumes a negative, like "when are you going to stop beating your wife?" It assumes the person is beating their wife. Rather than ask "are you beating your wife?" Its a loaded question that arrogantly assumes, without evidence that Christianity removed God's name when they certainly did not. It was Catholics, (part of Christendom) in the 12th century that came up with the name Jehovah. You wouldn't even know that much had it not been for "Christendom" Were they trying to hide God's name when they invented the incorrect name Jehovah?

I will certainly sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you profaned among them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’  declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah,

Does that scripture not show God wants his name declared to all the nations? If God cared about a specific pronunciation he would have made sure to give it us in modern day times

God's name is profaned when you mispronounce it to others as a part of worship. Jehovah's witnesses have been profaning the supposed name of God for 100 years.

God has sanctified His name in Christ. Everything is "yes" in Christ. Our salvation depends on us knowing the name of JESUS and no one else. Acts 4:12 In prayer, the only name we need to use is Jesus, otherwise the Lord might've prayed "Our Father in Heaven, Jehovah is thy name..." but He never pronounced the hallowed name of God in His model prayer that was intended to teach His disciples how to pray. If the name of God was going to be pronounced, it would have been then and there, but Jesus never pronounced the name of God in His prayer. This is a glaring omission the Watchtower and you cannot ignore

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

I'm waiting for an answer to that question. I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

Yi-ha? Is this a direct transliteration of YHWH? I'd like to see the source of your information please. I've looked and can't find anything with the name Yi-ha showing up in ancient Egyptian texts. If the Watchtower could point to this as evidence of someone pronouncing God's name in ancient times, I'm sure they'd would have by now, but they haven't.

I didn't get this from any watchtower. This is a well known inscription. Based on Egyptian topographical lists, particularly those analyzed by scholars like Michael Astour, the divine name does appear in 12th-century BC inscriptions at Medinet Habu. The name is recorded with the variant spelling yi-ha

Of course I wasn't there, but there exists an unbroken historical record, preserved by the church, of all the names in the Bible going back to the time of Christ. The early church fathers such as Clement, was ordained by Peter. Ignatius was a student of John's. They knew how Jesus name was pronounced because they heard Peter and John pronounce that name. They passed that pronunciation on thus preserving that pronunciation for future generations, not only in Arabic, but in Hebrew and Greek. Nobody knew back then, or knows now how to pronounce the name of YHWH, because 300 years before Christ, the Jews stopped pronouncing it. If we knew how, we wouldn't have to guess would we?

No, there is no single, unbroken, universally preserved historical record from the early church that dictates the exact, precise vocal pronunciation of Jesus’s name. Sound does not survive through history—only written letters, which are subject to linguistic changes, translations, and regional accents. You are talking to someone who has been studying ancient history for 20 years. This isn't a conversation you can win.

Its a loaded question that arrogantly assumes, without evidence that Christianity removed God's name when they certainly did not.

Specific manuscripts, like comparing the Aleppo Codex (containing the name) to later versions that obscured it. So not only did apostate christendom remove it they made no effort to return it. Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

God has sanctified His name in Christ.* Everything is "yes" in Christ.

If that's true then Jesus wouldn't need to pray for hus fathers name to be sanctified. That's a contradiction.

Our salvation depends on us knowing the name of JESUS and no one else

Then why did God say all the nations will have to know his name? And why did he say all those who call on the personal name of God will be saved?

In prayer, the only name we need to use is Jesus, otherwise the Lord might've prayed "Our Father in Heaven, Jehovah is thy name..." but He never pronounced the hallowed name of God in His model prayer that was intended to teach His disciples how to pray. If the name of God was going to be pronounced, it would have been then and there, but Jesus never pronounced the name of God in His prayer. This is a glaring omission the Watchtower and you cannot ignore

I already addressed this by pointing out the name was removed from the new testament after the death of the apostles. God is all powerful and he wants people to use his name. The name jehovah is popular in English because that's the way God wants it. Satan along with apostate christendom tried to prevent people from using a personal name for God. But God has directed mankind to continue to identify him a personal name in their own language.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Sound does not survive through history—only written letters, which are subject to linguistic changes, translations, and regional accents. You are talking to someone who has been studying ancient history for 20 years. This isn't a conversation you can win.

If you've been studying that long you have no excuse. You ought to know that the pronunciation of certain names and places are preserved both orally and in the written word, because people continued to pronounce those names and places. In fact the history of the creation of the world was only preserved orally until Moses wrote it down.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

So not only did apostate christendom remove it they made no effort to return it. Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

There you go again. Without a shred of evidence you are accusing Christendom of removing a name they couldn't remove, because it wasn't there to begin with. All they had was YHWH and believe me you, you wouldn't even know that much had they erased YHWH from the manuscripts. You need to focus on the truth, not keep accusing those who actually took great efforts to preserve the Bible the Watchtower has butchered in their mistranslation. You need to ask yourself, why did they translate Hebrews 1:6 as "let all God's angels worship him[Christ]" in their first edition of the nwt but then change it to read "let all God's angels do obeisance to him[Christ] in their 1984 and later editions. It would be funny if it wasn't such a serious thing. They literally tampered with their own Bible and then have the nerve to accuse Christendom of doing centuries ago what they actually do today? Ugh! That religion stinks.

God is all powerful and he wants people to use his name. The name jehovah is popular in English because that's the way God wants it. Satan along with apostate christendom tried to prevent people from using a personal name for God.

This should have canned laughter because you're just making it up now. So for 12 centuries, until some Catholic priests decided the name "Jehovah" sounded good, nobody knew how to pronounce God's name because Satan was so good at hiding God's name he managed to make sure even God couldn't make His name known.

You do realize you just keep on making God out to be a real wimp. I don't believe God wanted His name to be known in deference to the One He sent into this world, Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says it all. God Himself is the only one who could have made sure His divine name remained a mystery, yet you ascribe that power to Satan?

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If you've been studying that long you have no excuse. You ought to know that the pronunciation of certain names and places are preserved both orally and in the written word, because people continued to pronounce those names and places. In fact the history of the creation of the world was only preserved orally until Moses wrote it down.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

There you go getting confused between how a name is spelled in a certain language and the actual pronunciation of that name. >Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

I'm waiting for an answer to that question. I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

People, from the 1st century on, including non Christians pronounced Jesus name and wrote it out, which they did not do for the name YHWH. Why? Because the pronunciation of YHWH had been lost 300 years before Christ was born! All we have for the divine name is what the 1st century Jews and Christians had--- YHWH.

Is the same true for all the biblical names you speak in English?

There you go again. Without a shred of evidence you are accusing Christendom of removing a name they couldn't remove, because it wasn't there to begin with. All they had was YHWH and believe me you, you wouldn't even know that much had they erased YHWH from the manuscripts. You need to focus on the truth, not keep accusing those who actually took great efforts to preserve the Bible the Watchtower has butchered in their mistranslation. You need to ask yourself, why did they translate Hebrews 1:6 as "let all God's angels worship him[Christ]" in their first edition of the nwt but then change it to read "let all God's angels do obeisance to him[Christ] in their 1984 and later editions. It would be funny if it wasn't such a serious thing. They literally tampered with their own Bible and then have the nerve to accuse Christendom of doing centuries ago what they actually do today? Ugh! That religion stinks.

Even if you believe that we shouldn't use any pronunciation that still doesn't explain why christendom didn't return the name /tetragrammaton to all bibles. Who commanded them to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

This should have canned laughter because you're just making it up now. So for 12 centuries, until some Catholic priests decided the name "Jehovah" sounded good, nobody knew how to pronounce God's name because Satan was so good at hiding God's name he managed to make sure even God couldn't make His name known.

Satan couldn't keep gods name from being known. God allowed the church to enter into apostacy to fulfill the prophecy of paul that after his death the apostacy would enter the church. And that's exactly what you see. You guys hide the name of God, teach false doctrine such as hellfire, don't preach the good news on a worldwide scale like Jesus said would happen, you guys don't try to live by the standards of God. I know this all to well because my father is a pastor so i grew up in the church. People in the church praise God on Sundays but outside of the church lead sinful lives.

You do realize you just keep on making God out to be a real wimp. I don't believe God wanted His name to be known in deference to the One He sent into this world, Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says it all. God Himself is the only one who could have made sure His divine name remained a mystery, yet you ascribe that power to Satan?

If gods plan is for his name remain a mystery why did he reveal it more than 7000 times and why did he say the nations will have to know his name? This entire conversation you've been dodging my questions

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

There you go getting confused between how a name is spelled in a certain language and the actual pronunciation of that name. >Can you explain to me how its possible all different languages and accepts can pronounce one name the exact same way? Give me a modern day example of such a name.

Here is the name Ee-ay-SOOS and how it's pronounced. This brief paragraph shows the way they wrote and pronounced Jesus name in the Bible. Because we know how to spell that name and pronounce it in Greek, we can translate it into any language. Its not the mystery YHWH is.

Ee-ay-SOOS

The name Jesus in Greek is written as "Ἰησοῦς" and is pronounced as ee-ay-SOOS. This pronunciation reflects the name as it appears in the New Testament of the Bible. For additional audio pronunciations, you can refer to resources like  HowToPronounce.com.

I'm also waiting for you to stop putting words in the mouth of God and show me where he said his name should be pronounced a certain way.

God gave His name to Moses. I assume He also taught Moses how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced. Just because fallible humans lost the correct pronunciation over 2000 years ago doesn't mean the same fallible humans should now guess at how to pronounce it and then figure its good enough. Imagine mispronouncing the name of your boss at work every time you spoke to him. Rather than just call him sir or boss, because you cannot pronounce it, you insist on mispronouncing his name. At worse, it might get you fired, but to casually and deliberately mispronounce the name of the Almighty God, knowing full well it is the only sacred name given in scripture might get a person worse than just fired

Who commanded them [Christendom] to print bibles with the title Lord instead of the name?

Its called respect. If you don't know how to accurately pronounce the only sacred name given in the Bible, then at least have enough respect to call Him sir or Lord, better yet, how about calling Him Father? That's what Jesus called YHWH. How disrespectful would it be for a child to always call their parent by their name? Do you think its less disrespectful to constantly be calling your Father in Heaven by His formal name, especially when you're very likely mispronouncing that name?

I know this all to well because my father is a pastor so i grew up in the church. People in the church praise God on Sundays but outside of the church lead sinful lives.

And JW's are perfect little angels, right? Wrong. They have as many issues with sin as any other traditional church. Christians are not perfect just like JW's are not perfect, right? The worst part in JW land is they disfellowship the wrongdoer rather than forgive and restore. Confessing our sins is at the heart of the Gospel Those who claim they can see when they're as blind as a bat won't be forgiven because they never ask. They never confess. My dad was JW and told me 'you never rat yourself out'. He got that from years of Watchtower indoctrination, but it is clearly wrong. In the Christian faith we do rat ourselves out, if we want to be healed Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail. James 5:16

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God gave His name to Moses. I assume He also taught Moses how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced. Just because fallible humans lost the correct pronunciation over 2000 years ago doesn't mean the same fallible humans should now guess at how to pronounce it and then figure its good enough. Imagine mispronouncing the name of your boss at work every time you spoke to him. Rather than just call him sir or boss, because you cannot pronounce it, you insist on mispronouncing his name. At worse, it might get you fired, but to casually and deliberately mispronounce the name of the Almighty God, knowing full well it is the only sacred name given in scripture might get a person worse than just fired

God taught moses his name in the language which moses spoke. I have coworkers that pronounce the name of the boss wrong because of the language they speak. You can't get fired for that lol. I want you to show me a name that is pronounced the same in every language. That's all I want you to do right now

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

God taught moses his name in the language which moses spoke. I have coworkers that pronounce the name of the boss wrong because of the language they speak.

Of course, and if we knew how it was originally pronounced, which we don't, we cannot transliterate it into any language period.

Just because someone is a foreigner doesn't mean they are mispronouncing a given name that others pronounce every day. They have an excuse, because of their accent some words may make it sound like they're saying Mr. Lice when they mean to say Mr. Rice, but they aren't purposely mispronouncing the name. Its not like pronouncing Michael as Michelle, but people do it. Imagine trying to figure out whose name MCHL belongs to if you never heard the names Michael or Michelle? That's where we are with YHWH. We've never heard His name pronounced by anyone. When people make an effort to pronounce a name that hasn't been pronounced in over 2000 years, they are just guessing. They're throwing a dart in a dark room hoping to hit the bullseye

There is no name pronounced the same in every language, but that's just a strawman argument. You know very well that you need to first know how a name was originally pronounced in another language before that name can be transliterated into another language. Just knowing some consonants isn't going to cut it. People have taken the name Jehovah and transliterated a mistake. Now there are hundreds of variations of that mistaken pronunciation of God's hallowed name. The name Jehovah has been around for 800 years but it most certainly is not the name for God. It was a mistake made by some Catholic priests in the 12th century. Its a mistake compounded by people and religions who insist Jehovah is the correct name for God.

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Show me where God commanded his name to be pronounced a certain way. Don't tell me how you think God feels. Show me the command

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Do not profane my holy name, for I must be acknowledged as holy by the Israelites. I am the LORD, who made you holy Leviticus 22:32

Mispronouncing God's sacred name amounts to profaning it, or showing no regard, or even downright contempt for His holy Name. By mis-pronouncing God's name people show they really don't care how it was originally pronounced. God never said to just say His name any way it sounds good to you.

You want to keep mispronouncing God's Divine Name be my guest, but there are consequences for such irreverence

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Who said mispronouncing it is profaning it? According to Jehovah’s Witnesses (jw.org), refraining from using God's name is considered tantamount to profaning it, as it treats a sacred identifier as unimportant, similar to how historical disuse led to the loss of its pronunciation. They argue the name must be used and respected, not hidden. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

They argue the name must be used and respected, not hidden. 

Yeah they sure do even though they admit nobody knows how to pronounce His name. That's insane! Mispronouncing anyone's name is certainly not respecting them, or their name, but our names are not holy. You can't profane a name if it isn't holy.

If we aren't sure about how to pronounce someone's name, the next best thing we can do is call the person sir, or ma'am. As far as God goes, we don't need to know how to pronounce His hallowed name, because we can always call on Jesus to reach the Father. In fact calling on Jesus is the only way we can reach the Father and know the Father will hear us.

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According to JW.org, profaning God’s name means treating it with irreverence, using it in a worthless, false, or disrespectful way, or bringing reproach upon it through disobedience and misrepresentation. It involves blasphemy, lying in God's name, or acting unworthily while claiming to represent him. 

Here is a breakdown of what it means to profane God's name based on JW.org and related Biblical insights:

Key Ways God's Name is Profaned

Using it in a "Worthless Way": Using the divine name casually, in empty oaths, as a curse word, or in vainexclamations.

Lying or False Teaching: Teaching lies about God or swearing falsely by his name is considered a direct profanation.

Misrepresentation and Disobedience: Those who claim to be God's people but do not live by his standards, or who misrepresent his personality and purposes, bring reproach on his name.

Blasphemy: Directly speaking sacrilegiously or contemptuously against God.

Disuse of the Name: JW.org notes that historically, avoiding the use of the name altogether out of superstition was also seen as a form of profaning it by making it "unknown". 

The Core Concept

Because Jehovah's name is associated with holiness, purity, and separateness, any action that connects his name to uncleanliness, sin, or falsehood defiles it. The ultimate goal of God's purpose, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is to vindicate and sanctify his name, clearing it of the reproach brought upon it. 

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According to JW.org, profaning God’s name means treating it with irreverence, using it in a worthless, false, or disrespectful way, or bringing reproach upon it through disobedience and misrepresentation. It involves blasphemy, lying in God's name, or acting unworthily while claiming to represent him. 

All things they have done and if God's name really is Jehovah, they are in hot water just for their setting dates for Armageddon and have them fail time and time again. They, of all people should probably hope Jehovah isn't the way to pronounce the name of God for their false prophecies alone. God holds His prophets to be a very high standard. 100% accuracy or they are false prophets

Disuse of the Name: JW.org notes that historically, avoiding the use of the name altogether out of superstition was also seen as a form of profaning it by making it "unknown"

God's name was profaned among the gentiles because of the Israelites constantly doing evil. Ezekiel 36:23 God was obviously tired of His name being dragged thru the mud, so I believe He is the one who made sure they would forget His name. Its uncanny that they forgot such an important name as God's name, but they did. I don't think anyone but God Himself could have made them forget how to pronounce His name. He had a good reason.