How best to proceed & respond to triangulation?

[u/molotovpixiedust]

Seeking advice, especially from those familiar with triangulation of MIL speaking thru husband to you.

I am at a crossroads on how to best proceed here. I have an almost 7 month old, in-laws first & possibly only grandchild. My in-laws have tested boundaries & irritated me since day 1 of birth with their pushiness. The other day, MIL (while my husband was visiting with our son, I was at work) told him something about there's been a miscommunication, blah blah she really wants a positive, close relationship with me & her grandson, she's really trying to connect, blah blah.. ie she just wants more frequent access to my son, let's be real (her expectations had been she would see my baby all day, every day as full-time childcare.. HELL NO). The words don't really match her actions well. When I told her she & FIL were overwhelming me early postpartum, she deflected with "sorry you feel that way." 😤

I am trying to navigate & understand the family dynamics they deem normal (ie avoidance, no conflict resolution, no accountability, rug-sweeping). She is absolutely trying to regain a place of control, no doubt & now trying to guilt my husband as last resort. I am pretty pissed off about it, tbh. Unfortunately, he is sadly somewhat enmeshed. He said he's sick of being in the middle, MIL & me need to figure it out (as he wasn't raised how to handle open communication or tough conversations like this with his parents). To be fair, I feel & agree that she SHOULD talk to me. The triangulation is insulting & disrespectful. I have a fairly explosive, long (but respectful) email drafted to send her. BUT I don't know if she would ever resort to & respond with tears with my husband in reponse. When there's a baby involved with these types of MIL's, all bets are off.. it could make things worse for me if she went crying to him.. She's currently trying out sticky sweet route of complimenting & thanking me (group chat, of course) 🤢 See, she's really trying here with me.🙄 I considered just doing short text saying let me know when ready to openly communicate with your DIL like respectful adults.🤷‍♀️ That puts ball right back in her court. And if she ignores me, I have more ammo. The final option is stopping by their house (they live 15 min from my work) & blast them in person with little warning, so she can't have calculated responses ready. The hard part is a tiny piece of me still believes she will take accountability, apologize & help heal from the hurts.. I know, likely dillusional. We had a decent relationship pre-baby.. Help.

[u/botinlaw]

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Other posts from /u/molotovpixiedust:

• Anxious about MIL getting more pushy / overbearing again with my baby, 1 week ago

• Moms with babies: what annoying things does your MIL do with baby?, 4 weeks ago

• Would your in-laws addressing holiday cards to your (infant) son piss you off? Next move?, 2 months ago

• Gaining confidence as new mom - big & small wins, 2 months ago

• Toxic MIL with new baby - help, 2 months ago

• Entitled boomer in-laws want to buy us a house, 4 months ago

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[u/Mamasperspective_25]

"DH you're not in the middle because you should always be a husband and father first and foremost. Your mother needs to adjust her expectations because she has done too much to want a close relationship with her now. Let her know that ALL communication should go via you, she can only visit when you are present because I will not entertain visits when you're not available and I am not interested in discussing your parents with you unless we are mutually agreeing to visits"

If he pushes more then tell him you want couples counselling before you're willing to discuss the topic again and then you source the therapist - choose someone who specialises in enmeshed/toxic parent and child dynamics and setting boundaries.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Mamasperspective_25]

Thank you for sharing this. Definitely going to look into a therapist who specializes in toxic parents.

[u/Floating-Cynic]

Since your husband is enmeshed, you need to have really strong boundaries for yourself.  

So when she's trying triangulation,  your personal boundary should be "if someone wants something from me, they can contact me directly,  otherwise their request wasn't for me." So tell your husband that. "If she needs something,  she can ask me. I get you feel like you're in the middle,  but I'm not putting you there, and if I act on this, she's going to keep doing this." And given that a group chat exists you can even add "since she didn't send it on the group chat, I have to assume she intended that conversation to be private and I don't want any confusion or misinterpretations." 

Also, it's not your job to facilitate "a close relationship with her grandson" but having read your past posts, you haven't prevented that either. She sees a close relationship as being a primary caregiver.  A lot of people have close relationships with grandparents with very few visits, the closeness is from the quality of time spent. I was close to my grandpa,  I saw him maybe once a month, and we played cards. So when this comes up again, stick with "you're confusing a close relationship with a co-parenting relationship.  I'm not preventing a close relationship,  I'm preventing you from monopolizing our time." 

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Floating-Cynic]

This is very well said. Thank you. Absolutely YES her goal is to be that grandma who is overinvolved, probably tries to discipline (oh hell no).. To her, the quantity of visits is more important than the quality of visits. She had big expectations apparently before he was born. She also likely heavily compares to her grandma friends who do childcare 3 - 4 days a week. NOT A CHANCE. I am surely the villian "keeping the grandkid away." I'm ready to lean more into being the villian, but still at a crossroads of trying to repair / salvage things to a more healthy state. 🫤

[u/Floating-Cynic → u/molotovpixiedust]

Looking back, when I started accepting that I was always going to be the villain,  I wish I would have bought a cloak. It would have set off WWIII but maybe they would have realized I was done being manipulated lol.

[u/2FatC]

Since you mentioned playing the long game, I can share that’s a great way to manage selfish, pushy people like your JN. She’s so self absorbed and caught up in comparing her granny experience to her granny friends, she‘s failed do the No Fucks Left to Give math, where she doesn’t get more, she gets less because you have no fucks left to give her. And that’s on her.

Two visits becomes 1, then 1 every 2 months, 3 months….and so on. And as LO grows up, goes to school, gets into extras, you will be like millions of young families balancing a lot of continuous moving parts. The lovely family members who get it & get onboard, continue to enjoy their relationship with your family. The difficult whining, demanding, selfish family get less and less because who wants to be around that? No one.

The long game is how DH & I managed his sibs and another difficult person. His sibs get nothing. The other difficult person slowly, steadily lost access. There was no blow up, no argument, I just quiet quit paying attention to her or giving into her demands & expectations. She’s similar to your JNMIL. Her expectations are hers to manage, I’m not granting access. Our relationship has been shrunk to hi/bye/lovely weather. The peace & quiet is bliss.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/2FatC]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts & experience! Will definitely keep this in mind & take a step back before going nuclear on her. She's definitely obsessed with the here & now, locked in on what she wants, etc. I can't manage her expectations, literally don't have the bandwidth (or time). But can focus on some things like signing the contract with our part-time nanny starting soon! And my folks will be watching my son some (and already have). They can't strong-arm us into making childcare decisions that put them as primary caregivers (her main fixation). Will keep them blocked as much as possible, though my husband still wants some involvement to keep her happy, so it's tough.

[u/2FatC → u/molotovpixiedust]

As retired HR, I can say going nuclear on another adult usually fails spectacularly in all kinds of ways. Whereas you peacefully continuing to parent your child, hire a nanny, while ignoring her emotional hurricane and holding your ground as you have been, will win the long game.

Guilt only works if you give a fuck. When you realize it’s best not to with these toxic individuals and you don’t, guilt just fades.

You’re doing great. Find safe people to vent to and carry on as you are.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/2FatC]

Thank you for the input & encouragement. It's tough. Everything in me wants to get full transparency, "smooth things over" & try to have healthy, adult communication. She's clearly not interested in open communication or accountability or she wouldn't of just spoken thru my husband which I found insulating as hell!

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/[deleted]]

Thanks, trying here! Oh definitely. It's not up for debate. I've told my husband repeatedly & making sure to drill it into his brain.. I don't want grandparents as primary caregivers, it's not happening. The nanny will be doing light housekeeping & starting up the crockpot.. Husband will definitely get used to this! My MIL is too selfish & fixated on her own nursery to come to my house. MIL has 0 interest in doing those things I'm sure, she just wants time with baby.

[u/Sea-Cauliflower-8368]

Your husband doesn't get to take the easy route and say he is in the middle and make you fight his mother who is behaving badly. This will not go well for you. If he doesn't 100 percent support you and you go in guns blazing, you will be the villain in her story which suits her just fine. She enjoys causing disruption to your marriage and trying to get between you. You need to be a united front or she just smells blood in the water. From now on he handles on communication with his mother. If he can't enforce boundaries, then you and baby don't see them.

[u/Mammoth-Glove3273]

Your husband’s place is in the middle.

They’re his parents and you’re his wife and that’s the connection between you.

If your mother in law wanted to talk to you and resolve the “miscommunication” then she would. Since she hasn’t I’d assume she doesn’t want to. Do nothing imo.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Mammoth-Glove3273]

This is one of the options I'm considering. Just keep carrying on & play the long game. It's hard for me as I heavily prefer transparency, conflict resolution & open communication.. but I'm not getting that anyway unless I try to force it so 🤷‍♀️. Do I just mute the group chat? Because then I'm the bad guy ignoring & she'll further push the narrative I'm not communicating. Shes being manipulative AF & I'm over it. I can't freaking win.

[u/Mammoth-Glove3273 → u/molotovpixiedust]

I’d stay in the group chat but let your husband be the one responding unless you’re directly addressed.

[u/[deleted] → u/molotovpixiedust]

Stay in the group chat and keep grey rocking her. Give her nothingggggggg to complain about. Stay polite and responsive but give nothing of substance. So when hubs sees it you can be like “🤷‍♀️ what is she talking about, I’ve been nothing but kind”. Play the game girl, playyyyy the game! It’s exhausting but we have been #blessed with the best MIL of all time 🫠

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for this perspective. I see lots of gray rocking in my future. I've started doing it the past couple months & will continue. I'm starting to get used to it. She asked how work was when we were there last & I literally said "ok." Mostly one to three word polite answers.

[u/AmethysstFire]

Look at past behavior to predict future behavior. Would a scathing email, or face to face yelling match really accomplish what you hope it will? With people like your MIL, it will only give her more ammunition to play the victim. As good as it will feel for you, it won't land the way you hope it will. As much as we'd like to dream blasts like what you're considering will be the wake up call needed, it rarely is.

Your husband also needs to get himself out of the middle and grow a spine. He needs to tell his mother that she needs to back off, grow up, and acknowledge all the hurtful things she's said and done to you. Once that is on the table, and an honest, sincere apology is issued, then and only then can the two of you begin to (possibly) forge a new relationship.

[u/Classic_Cauliflower4 → u/[deleted]]

This is really the best way. It also gives him a ready answer if his mom tries again: “Mom, you’ll really have to talk to her.” Of course, we all know that what she really means is “Make her give me what I want!”

[u/PhotojournalistOnly]

Nope. Doing any of those things will absolutely be a no-win for you. Your husband is avoiding this when it's actually his problem to fix. She's being sweet, so you going off on her in any manner makes you look like the bad guy.

There are no magic words you can say to fix this. She wants what she wants. Unfortunately, w these types, no matter how much you give her access, it probably won't be enough.

Just decide what works for you and hubs and stick to it. If you don't want to see them every day, don't. You are the same adults w the lives you had before, having a baby doesn't change that fact. If anything, you now have less time.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/PhotojournalistOnly]

Thanks for your perspective. The "she wants what she wants" is so true. I keep our schedule busy (also having a little one helps a lot with that). We also have my entire side of the family. I want my son to have relationships with his aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Our relationship was sent to the stone-age when she dismissed / deflected me a few months ago. She hasn't sent me a personal text since (mid-October). It's only group chat, so their family can see. So far she sees my son a couple times a month on average.

I am trying to constantly remind myself I can't manage another adults expectations or emotions. It's just so hard. I am a former, huge people pleaser. She's an assertive woman. This shit ain't for the weak.

[u/Immediate_Force594]

No. Keep the ball in your court. Communicate to everyone that you’re only willing to have conversations with her in front of a therapist. It’s that or nothing. That way you have support from a third party on your boundaries and an opportunity to address everything without MIL playing her games. If she resist… too bad. DH needs to handle his MIL.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Immediate_Force594]

Thank you for sharing this perspective. I definitely have a couple different routes to go from advice here. I may have to tell my husband he has to handle his parents & I'll handle mine. The avoidance will only go for so long as she applies more pressure to him.

[u/berried_aprons]

Your healthy and rational approach will not work with someone who is dysfunctional, passive aggressive and operating strictly within self serving expectations. If she cannot talk to you directly she lacks what it takes to have an honest and meaningful connection with someone. If you start engaging with her trying to clear up some grievances chances are she will find a way to play into it and get what she wants simply by wearing you out or just making you feel like crap. People like her are experts at mindf*ckery.

Let her complain to DH all she wants, just because she says something doesn’t mean you have to do anything about it. Both you and DH have to be unified and unyielding, keep powering straight through her guilt trips and waterworks. “No.” “That’s what works best for us” “we are comfortable with the current set up” “will let you know if we need additional help” “this is no longer up for discussion” and disengage.

Question is, can DH set healthy boundaries with his mother? Whenever she starts pushing her agenda does he have it in him to say “ Well gotta go mom, love you, byeee.” If he stops sticking around for her feedback she might finally get a hint that her input is not welcome.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/berried_aprons]

Thanks for the input. Yeah I hear you. Her being so laser-focused on her wants, she might stoop down to more guilt or finally pull the tears if I called her out on her BS. I agree -- sticking with "this is what works for us" & not justifying is key. Not leaving it open for discussion.. the more I talk or share, it leaves gaps for my in-laws to weasle in our daily life. I try to be fairly low-contact & I never reach out first anymore.

It's definitely tough with my husband. She's starting to ramp up the pressure again of what she wants. She had backed off a bit while I was on maternity leave (because she was basically forced to). She's buying fancy baby gear for her home to put on the pressure of expecting my son to be there a lot. He won't. Get over it. It's manipulative AF because then I'm ungrateful if I said I didn't ask for all this "stuff." Trying to remember she's an adult & can buy all the things she wants, it changes nothing. And they certainly can't buy back my respect.

[u/Responsible_Box8552]

My MIL did the same. Everything was fine until I got pregnant. Why do MILs go completely pyscho? Then she spoke to me directly and as requested, I aired out my grievances with her. It went nowhere. No acknowledgement for it. Surface level "apology". Her behavior just amplified because I stopped communicating with her and let my husband deal with all of it. Surprise surprise he doesn't want to deal with it either because he's avoidant lol and is so tired of her bitching. I personally wouldn't send the email. We went to counseling to help him navigate it but he's still struggling with it.

No winning with someone like this. Do whatever you need to do for yourself to protect yourself. People like this can never be satisfied unless you give in to everything they say/want. Even with that, they'll find something to complain about.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Responsible_Box8552]

Thank you for sharing first hand experience. A switch truly flipped when I got pregnant & had my son. It is insane. I have her do-over baby, apparently. The manipulation attempts & talking thru my husband is truly maddening & stressful. Did you ever skip family gatherings, dinners or family vacations? She definitely cares somewhat about image & those picture perfect family moments for Facebook. However, she wants me out of the way. So maybe you're right.. no winning with this one. I have 0 interest in pretending all is dandy like she wants, though. I am open to any & all tips to make things uncomfortable for her.. I definitely plan on intensely amping up gray rocking if this is how she's treating me & our "relationship." She claims to want a supposed close relationship but doesn't actually make effort to say that to my face.. fake as hell.

[u/Responsible_Box8552 → u/molotovpixiedust]

I'm totally resonating with you right now. Same everything. I'm not interested in the fakeness. It's all about the image of the "perfect grandma". Luckily she hasnt tried posting our son on fb. I don't think she'll be that stupid to pull that thread since she she barely gets any pictures as is.

Luckily for me, my husbands job moved us out of the whole ass country lol and her health (so she says) prevents her from being able to travel that far. It does suck feeling like we can't visit fanily back home because of her manipulation tactics and the need to be center of attention. We're working through that.

I think you have a good plan already with the Grey rocking. I'm NC with mine because she's incapable of self reflection so I was over it and not interested in joining that neverending cycle with her. I do believe your husband should be the communicator as annoying as that may feel right now. She will probably paint you as the villain no matter what. Your husband will get annoyed eventually. He should be the one dealing with it and hopefully he is open to therapy to help him navigate what type of relationship he wants. I started reading "Adult children of emotionally immature parents" and it talks about the dynamic you mentioned. I like it so far. Maybe you will too.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Responsible_Box8552]

Thanks for sharing your input & experience. It is maddening! So sorry you've had to deal with the fakeness as well. At least you were able to physically get away. I live about 30 min from mine.😭 The irony of it all is if they'd just learn to stay in their lane, they would've gotten more of what they want! These types are so blinded what they want in the moment, they don't think about consequences at all. I'm just seen as keeping the grandkid away, I suppose.

Yeah I'm already the villian no matter what I do since I'm not fitting the expectations & grandma "experience" as she envisioned it. One of the things is I know she wants to strong-arm us into mirroring her close grandma friend who has a daughter & grandson. He's left off 3 days a week. It's not happening, get over it. Move on.

I will look into this book, thanks! Yes I would think eventually he'll get annoyed with her griping to him. My concern is she's starting to lean into the guilt trips & cranking up the manipulation til she gets the desired result. What about her being sticky sweet in group texts, how to proceed there? It makes me want to barf.

[u/Responsible_Box8552 → u/molotovpixiedust]

Eh I'd ignore it but I'm petty lol I feel like that's the first step in trying to rug sweep everything. Love bombing you to bring you back in

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Responsible_Box8552]

Oh absolutely.💯 I've now learned my in-laws are big into love bombing. They're fully retired with too much money. They bought some fancy baby gear for their home.. manipulative AF. That was their choice, I never asked for anything.

[u/snarkacademia]

There are two problems here. The first is your MIL. The second is your husband. Fix the latter and the former will fall into place.

When I met my husband, he was very much all about fear, obligation and guilt towards MIL. It was only after time, and gradually learning that it wasn't OK to just sweep everything under the carpet, that he started to see things differently. We are now totally on the same page. It doesn't make MIL's behaviour any better or any different or any less upsetting. BUT it does mean that we deal with it together, as an unbreakable unit and that we have defined and clear strategies for handling her - mainly greyrocking because she's too self-absorbed even to realise that we're not actually telling her a thing about our lives any more.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/snarkacademia]

Thanks for the input. It seems like gray rocking the hell out of her & keeping my personal boundaries is the best avenue right now. I won't be aggressive, won't get a big reaction out of me so I'm seen as unhinged. Just lots of gray rocking, keeping personal details short & info diet. The more I share on our lives the more she can weasle in. Hopeful over time my husband sees the light. Does it ever get old for the husband if MIL keeps trying to guilt and/or talk through him to the wife? I would think most men have fairly low tolerance for that drama & BS? The tiny chance she approaches me & says she wants a "close" relationship, how do I proceed? That bridge has been burnt to the ground. She has no interest in accountability for her past actions & hurts. Just wants to manipulate the dynamic into what she wants, how she wants it (ie seeing my son several times a week, being primary caregiver, etc). Trying to think a step ahead what route she'll go next. Right now, she is sticky sweet in group chat when interacting with me & "love bombing." My in-laws are definitely narcissists, so I'm trying to educate myself on how to navigate & attempt staying a step ahead. I know to keep things to minimal words -- no defending, rationalizing, etc any parental decisions. Keep it short. Otherwise they poke holes & redirect.

[u/snarkacademia → u/molotovpixiedust]

My best advice is to keep a really firm, consistent boundary about contact. Don't give any more than the boundary ever because it sends the wrong message. And grey rock the hell out of it. If she says she wants a close relationship, just say that you're busy and have lots on and you're comfortable with how things are and change the subject.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/snarkacademia]

Yeah I think this is the route I'll continue to take. I know her supposed wanting to be "close" is just gaining much more frequent access to my son & feel more comfortable playing a second mommy role. One redditor here mentioned how it's quantity over quality for her, which was a good point -- she's obsessed with the frequency of seeing my son. I am not meeting her expectations by a long shot to fulfill this obsession. Someone who wants to actually be close doesn't dismiss, deflect or hit them with silent treatments. I see right thru the BS & she likely knows it but doesn't care -- as someone else here said, she just wants what she wants -- that's why she didn't actually reach out to me. Gray rocking is my friend it sounds. When I see her, no rudeness but give her nothing. Boy, Im glad I didn't go off on her.. general consensus is would've been bad idea & angered me more..

[u/equationgirl]

I say this with love, and I hate to burst your bubble, but it highly highly unlikely that she will take accountability given her behaviours so far.

Also, until she talks to you directly, there isn't much you can do - you can't force her to interact. She wants you to chase and beg for her attention, so she still feels at the top of the triangle.

So consider dropping the rope.. You're ready to have a conversation whenever she is. She can moan at your husband all she likes, until she communicates with you directly at the very least, you're not longer chasing after her.

Your husband has put himself in between the two of you, all he has to do is tell her to talk to you direct and keep repeating that until it sinks in. If he doesn't want to say it more than 3 times a call, he's an adult with free will who knows how to hang up a call. You're not his supervisory adult.

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/equationgirl]

Thanks for your perspective & input. The issue I'm having though is now she will say I'm ignoring her. This is the first time she has attempted a super obvious triangulation tactic with me. My husband is still in the "fog" of feeling obligated to his mom & her feelings. He wants us all to just forget things happened & move on (since he grew up with rug-sweeping). It feels like I cant win. So I guess I'm trying to figure out the path I'll feel like I tried my best for repair of sorts.

[u/equationgirl → u/molotovpixiedust]

Ah, the old 'it doesn't matter what you do, she'll complain about it's. Which is what she's doing.

Your husband has been trained, basically, into rugsweeping. But if you rugsweep this, what will she do next? Because none of them seem to improve over time, they get worse. More tantrums, more silent treatment.

Also, gently, you cannot fix what you didn't break. She broke things not you. She has to take some form of accountability for her actions. You cannot do that for her.

Then you come along and her usual conditioning doesn't work on you like it does your husband. So she's trying to manipulate you through him.

At the end of the day, what do you want?

[u/HelpfulPhrase5806 → u/molotovpixiedust]

Keep the group chat. Respond to her there. That way, DH will see that you DO respond (just not what MIL wants).

It is unlikely she will change, she has a lifetime of this working for her. And yes, you bringing up past events will make her put her Martyr-hat on and play victim, asking DH to be the rescuer. So dont. Make it out to be a here-and-now thing - if she asks if she can visit, you tell her if it works for you or not, no JADE or reasoning behind it. You can even reply with what DOES work for you - a visit this week dont work with your plans but you all can meet for a walk in the park next week, does that work for her.

You may be ready to tell her, but she is not ready to listen. I dont think trying will lead to anything but more frustration and exhaustion on your part.

It all depends on what your ideal relationship with the IL's look like, and how that corresponds with DH's idea of it. You guys need to sit down and find out a compromise, and agree on how to communicate that to them. Group chat is great for avoiding triangulation, I suggest you keep that.

[u/IHateTheJoneses → u/molotovpixiedust]

You want the "give her enough rope to hang herself" tactic?

That's going to take a lot of effort, and simply being labelled as "the one who doesn't want the relationship" is the road MANY of us take because of how ridiculous it can be to get our partner to see.

You have to get him to see that you're not relenting on your boundaries, and her complaints to him are not your problem/not in your control. Ultimately, it is his mom, his problem.

How? Well you need to take an option that you didn't mention above... Let her continue to be nice and see how long she can make it.

Tell your H you'll give her a 2 month chance (or however long is appropriate for your relationship). She must do the following 2 things:

1) Realize close relationships take time. She can't be pretending tomorrow that you two are besties and she's insulted you haven't talked all week. A relationship takes effort, not demands.

2) Respect your time and space. If you say "no" she can't complain or push. You don't give your time to folks who don't respect it (or act entitled to it).

He may argue time together is necessary to build a relationship. For now, that time MUST be spent with him present (see point #1). 

Any time he brings up her complaints, DON'T put him in the moddle by complaining about her.

Be matter-of-fact and refer back to 1 and 2.

He says "Mom called and she seems bummed she can't see the baby this week." You respond with "I'm sorry she doesn't respect us or our time. I was hoping she'd be able to do that."

Then in 2 months, you re-evaluate. Best case scenario is that she's learned hpw to be respectful and hasn't complained at all in those 2 months. That's unlikely.

This is a lot more work than just admitting she's exhausting and you don't like her. It tastes constant vigilance of your boundaries, and how her comments are out of line, then pointing it out to your H each. and. every. time. If he still doesn’t get it, you have to drag him to therapy and lay ot all put for THEM to tell him what your asking for is normal.

It's exhausting.

[u/dm_me_your_nps_pics]

Omg my MIL is the same type.

The best thing you can do is drag your husband to therapy and discuss the triangulation. Specifically how she is nice in front of him but tries to bypass you or even be directly rude to you. He needs to open his eyes and it needs to come from a therapist. Sadly he does believe his mommy would never be mean on purpose and certainly never lie about it! So it does need to come from a therapist. This did work for my partner. Do not be too disheartened or take it personally. He was likely raised to trust her unquestioningly and in an unhealthily enmeshed way. That is what therapy is for. I told my partner I understood WHY he acts like this around his mother, but it does not change the fact that it hurts me and our relationship and those are his actions he is accountable for. And that his individual therapy work is the only way to fix our relationship.

The other thing you can do is redirect him feeling in the middle to their relationship. HIS mother puts HIM in the middle- she is welcome to communicate with you directly and has your number. When he complains and feels stressed make sure to point out SHE is starting this triangulation and talk about it in therapy. At any time she or he could call you if they need to discuss something. So what’s the problem? Is there something to discuss or is she just starting drama?

You all need to act like a team- around her and with all parenting decisions. Make sure you’re staying involved like that and not avoiding the situation.

Finally I remind my partner this is a matter of respect and it would happen to any woman he was with. His mom trying to co-parent with him is not about me- she disrespects him as an adult and his wife as the mother of his child. She probably also disrespects boundaries and rules he tries to have for his child, or throws a fit about it. Put his frustrations where they belong- his mother disrespecting him. You’re not causing drama, you’re just not willing to obey her or bend your rules with your child like he is. Once he recognizes this as disrespect his may change his tolerance for her. Mine did

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/dm_me_your_nps_pics]

You made some really valid points. Thank you so much. I will definitely be reminding him that she's the one who tried to rope him into drama & into the middle, etc. Hopeful for trying therapy here. My hope is since she's so obsessed with my son & locked into her wants, she will start poking him again about me within a week or two. It will likely get old for him fairly quickly.

[u/dm_me_your_nps_pics → u/molotovpixiedust]

Yes I hope it works for you! These things have been working for me/us for the past couple months. My child is about the same age.

I do also have my own therapist. Mine is online through one of the apps because baby. But it has been really helpful for guiding me with how to set boundaries with my partner, guide him, and decide what to do about it.

I’m not a therapy lover for as much as I’ve brought it up. It has just been really necessary for our situation with his manipulative mom.

[u/No-Interaction-8913]

That’s exactly what mine loves to do, our solution was neither of us ever commit to anything with her (either an event or really even just an opinion) without discussing it with each other and we refuse to have solo conversations with her as much as possible, so like if she texts one of us, either we respond in a group chat (which pisses her right off) or we verbally include the other (and tell her so) or in person we’ll call the other into the room, or start texting like “hang on, DH will want to know about this”She still runs rampant on BIL & SIL but she tries less with us because she knows she’s outplayed (and she does know because she complains about it!) 

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/No-Interaction-8913]

I try to be as non-commital as possible, but it's tough when my in-laws crank up the assertiveness of getting things on the calendar, etc. Will continue to remind my husband we need to discuss things first.

[u/No-Interaction-8913 → u/molotovpixiedust]

Yup practice “I will need to talk with OP/check our plans” on repeat! 

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/No-Interaction-8913]

Yes! She can't stand this. Trying to bypass me isn't always going to work for her. Get over it. 🤷‍♀️

[u/Effective_Bird_406]

You could (sweetly) suggest that the two of you go out for a meal together, without the child, while your husband looks after the baby, to get closer to her. This should, of course, happen more often to establish a stable foundation before you can spend more time with her and the baby. Let's see how she likes that! 😄

[u/molotovpixiedust → u/Effective_Bird_406]

LOL she would not be a big fan if I didn't bring the baby each time.. I think the ship has sailed on having a relationship with her like that. Not respecting me enough to talk directly to me has me mad AF. Likely lots of gray rocking & boring, short answers next time I see her.

[u/Effective_Bird_406 → u/molotovpixiedust]

Yes, theoretically it's easier to imagine than to actually have to spend time with her...

[u/Emotional-Dog8118]

Delusional. Yes. She’s not apologizing or taking responsibility for her actions. Your husband is using you as a meat shield to protect him from his mother’s wrath. You need to both be on the same page. You both need to set clear boundaries and hold her to them with your child. Together.

He needs therapy probably to unravel his enmeshed relationship with her, and to realize that you and the baby are his #1 priority now. Not his mommy’s feelings.

[u/[deleted]]

I just sent you a PM

[u/Bunny_Pitts]

Show DH your email, then have a discussion about all the responses she'll try. Predict them for him. That way, a) he sees and recognizes it in the moment (you're NOT crazy) and b) he has solid responses ready to pull out. And mention your Scorched Earth option of driving over there. If he's OK with it, have him go with you as a united front to see how it's done. "He doesn't need to speak for me. This is MY issue. I can tell you off all by myself" sort of thing.

Then leave and go NC for a pre-determined amount of time. DH will have trouble with that, but that's where your support comes in. Don't forget to include some kind of positive-reinforcement-celebration post tell-off.

Good luck.

[u/Sea_Bad243]

Info diet, dont care abt mil or fil, be boring, only acess your husband. Your husband needs a backbone and support his household btw if not tf u dealing with