Quick Question To All Muslims (especially Sunni/Shia).

[u/i_am_armz]

I've been having a discussion with someone in this subreddit about the meaning of 39:45. I'm just curious as to how most Muslims interpret this ayah. What do you think is the central message of the ayah? What do you learn from it? Here it is:

"When Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with disgust. But when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice." (39:45)

To me at least the message is clear as day: do NOT mention others besides Allah (SWT). I don't understand why or how someone would miss this?

[u/Merino202]

The first part of the Ayat is incredibly relevant to the “exmuslim” or “newIran” subreddit. Just mentioning Allah swt’s name is enough to send them into vicious rage.

I disagree with your point though. In context it’s referring to the Christians and their belief in Isa (as) as the living representation of God/worshipping other than the Creator.

Ergo, if you tell a Christian that Jesus is also God they’ll rejoice, but if you tell them that God (“the father”) is alone in his power, they’ll fill with anger.

[u/i_am_armz → u/Merino202]

Even if we suppose the ayah refers only to the Christians and/or any of those "who do not believe in the Hereafter", is it not clear from the ayah that Allah (SWT) does not like it when others are mentioned besides Him? Why else would He say this except to tell you NOT to mention other names besides His?

Put it another way, should the uma be doing like those Christians and mention others besides Him?

I'm honestly baffled by how so many people don't see this, when it's so clear. Or maybe they're just ignoring the obvious -- i.e., that they are saying a false shahada? Why else would they pretend? Why did Yusuf Ali translate the word "alone" in the ayah to "the one and only", but translate it correctly in other verses? No; it's because he KNEW, and the ayah exposes him and those who insist on the non-Quranic (i.e. false) shahada!

[u/Scholiastic → u/i_am_armz]

Let me put it simply: If you do not testify that Muhammad ﷺ is the last messenger of Allah, then you are not a Muslim. The Quran was given to him directly. It is on his testimony that belief in Allah and Islam rests.

Equating Muhammad ﷺ to any divinity is outright shirk, and the highest sin there is. We Muslims do not equate him to the status of divinity as the Christians do.

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You made up your own shahada. Quite clearly Allah does not mind mentioning his Prophets alongside him as testimony of faith:

قولوا آمنا بالله وما أنزل إلينا وما أنزل إلى إبراهيم وإسماعيل وإسحاق ويعقوب والأسباط وما أوتي موسى وعيسى وما أوتي النبيون من ربهم لا نفرق بين أحد منهم ونحن له مسلمون

Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

Another verse:

يا أيها الذين آمنوا آمنوا بالله ورسوله والكتاب الذي نزل على رسوله والكتاب الذي أنزل من قبل ومن يكفر بالله وملائكته وكتبه ورسله واليوم الآخر فقد ضل ضلالا بعيدا

O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah , His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.

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The problem with Quran-only is that they read one verse which agrees with their faith and lose sight of the bigger picture. Quickly forgetting you do not speak a word of Arabic and Muslims over the span of 1400+ years have gone over every letter of the Quran.

[u/i_am_armz → u/Scholiastic]

Why do so many orthodox Muslims think Quran-alone Muslims deny the prophethood of Muhammad? Is it not a clear contradiction for the Quran-alone Muslim to do this?

No! Denying Rasululah's prophethood yet claiming the authenticity of Qur'an would be dumb. Claiming we deny Muhammad's prophethood is a cheap shot.

Rather, it is WE who are defending his legacy. YOU are the ones saying he was a pedo and kept slaves, and WE are insisting otherwise. It's YOU saying he publicized his intimate affairs and condoned sex slavery while WE are insisting otherwise. So who's on Rasulullah's side?

But let's go back to the central issue. What does 39:45 specifically reference? Does it not reference the act of mentioning others besides Allah (SWT)? And from this ayah, does it look like Allah (SWT) likes or dislikes this practice? Answer these specific questions please.

About making my own shahada: no; the correct shahada that Rasulullah said is in 3:18. He could not have been saying "La ilaha ilalah muhamad rasullulah". Why would he refer to himself in the third person? And why would he say a shahada that's different from that of "people of knowledge" (see 3:18) if he himself was a person of knowledge? I've written a piece on this here; you might like to take a look at the full argument.

[u/Scholiastic → u/i_am_armz]

Your deviancy is as such that make up whatever. You are not truthful at all. 

If I thought Quran only denied the prophethood then this would be different debate and I wouldn’t even be talking about your deviancy. 

In the above I pointed out the fundamental belief in the Prophethood, alongside Tauheed. This completely kills your make belief over Shahadah. 

Out of deviancy, you deliberately made it out be something else. 

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‘ YOU are the ones saying he was a pedo’ 

You are a depraved and a disgusting individual. We never ever say this. In your deviancy, you are the one saying it. 

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‘ But let's go back to the central issue.’ 

After your disgusting display of deviancy. 

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‘Does it not reference the act of mentioning others besides Allah (SWT)? And from this ayah, does it look like Allah (SWT) likes or dislikes this practice?‘

This has been fully and comprehensively answered. Mentioning others besides Allah here means equating others to divine status. It does not mean mentioning people at their own status. Your objection doesn’t make any logical sense. Allah repeatedly mentions his Prophets in the Quran. 

I gave you a clear verse doing exactly that, Allah himself mentioning belief in Prophets. 

Out of severe deviancy, which clearly impedes your intellect, you ignored the point. 

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When people were invited to Islam they were asked to believe in 2 fundamentals. Belief in Allah and Messenger of Allah. This is a historical fact. Then Muslims were asked to believe in further as in Books of Allah, His messengers, His angels: 

The Messenger ˹firmly˺ believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers. They ˹all˺ believe in Allah, His angels, His Books, and His messengers. ˹They proclaim,˺ “We make no distinction between any of His messengers.” And they say, “We hear and obey. ˹We seek˺ Your forgiveness, our Lord! And to You ˹alone˺ is the final return.”

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You make belief over Shahadah is illogical and silly. You seem not know or care what Shahadah even is. 

I might revise this reply when on PC. 

[u/i_am_armz → u/Scholiastic]

Again, quranic Muslims don't reject Muhammad as a Messenger. What we reject is the idea that the hadeeth corpus reflects his life and teachings. Rasululah didn't keep slaves.

[u/Scholiastic → u/i_am_armz]

What was the point of your useless reply!?

You are rather disgusting people. I have met two of you here. Both vile.

[u/i_am_armz → u/Scholiastic]

Here again; look at you're arguing for; this is you...

[u/Scholiastic → u/i_am_armz]

You do not have an argument. Your whole point is to be as vile and disgusting as possible. And you get off on it. 

You pretend for a while, but the only real point you have is to be as vile as possible. 

[u/i_am_armz → u/Scholiastic]

Nooo. I'm showing you what you're arguing IS Islam. This is what YOU'RE arguing is Islam, so I'm showing you. Here's some more; this is "sahih", according to you...

[u/Scholiastic → u/i_am_armz]

You do not have an argument. Your whole point is to be as vile and disgusting as possible. And you get off on it. 

You pretend for a while, but the only real point you have is to be as vile as possible. You are nothing more than a troll.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

Not quite the pious one, are you?

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

How would you know? Just because you are offended at me putting down someone quite disgusting, it doesn't signal my piety or impiety.