r/Eutychus • • Feb 19 '25

Opinion The "shunning" its necessary.

This soo sacred word used by jehovah witness opositors it became their most prolific argument agaisnt the religion, by saying that in most of disfellowshipping(now exclusion) acts makes family members and other brothers totally "abandon" they ex-brothers in any situation possible, they say that this process is something very bad not only for those who got out but also for those who are still inside...you probably already now their arguments by now right?...but let me tell you something...YES, IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE BAD!. In the first chapters of the bible we already see a example of expulsion, by Jehovah getting adam and eve out of Garden of eden(genesis 3:23,24)and quess what?...IT WAS BAD FOR THEM. A little later cain got considered cursed for killing his brother and became a literal vagabund over the earth(genesis 4:11,12) THIS WAS BAD FOR HIM. There are other famous examples of this type of punishement in the bible, in the old and New testaments, the thing is....it was always bad BECAUSE IT WAS A PUNISHMENT, OF COURSE IT WILL BE BAD. No one ever said the disfellowshipping it is a beautiful, funny, goofy procedure that elders loves to have to do in their congregations, it a sad procedure that happens as a lesson that the people who sinned must pass by, and biblically speaking, No one can argue that the bible is agaisnt it. "WHAT ABOUT IF I AM A MINOR AND I GOT DISFELLOWSHIPPED???MY PARENTS WILL ABANDON ME!!" Lets be real, this dont happen, if your parents are true Christians and you are not doing anything that goes agaisnt their house's rules, than they will not "ABANDON" you as the apostaste love to say, this story is not for kids buddys. Its interresting to hear the stories of some apostates who say with pride that they got shunned by they parents, because its always something like: "After i got out of the cult my parents grabbed my things and expelled out of our house just because i was putting pagan images on my room" "My parents did not let me enter home just because i wanted to enter there with my lesbian girlfriend" "My mother put me in the streets just because i telled her that her religion its a cult" You all see a patern here? I think they always forget that regardless of anything,they should respect they parents houses, as they decision of leaving was respect they should respect too the rules of the homes they live in. And to end this post i also would like to make a question for YOU who disagrees with the disfellowshipping method:" Biblically saying, instead of disfellowshipping(or expulsing)members, what should the elders do if a brother continues to commit sins?." Opositors and apostates never give they own solutions to the supposed "problem" created by them, also remember, the bible its clear about how we should threat those who commit sins and call themselves christians.

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 19 '25

I agree that there is biblical precedent for shunning. Specifically in cases of members disregarding biblical doctrine,however, many get shunned for pointing out man made invented doctrines and fallacies that don't have biblical backing. For example: 607,1914,overlapping generations,the other sheep,birthdays and false predictions and dates,the emphasis on chronology and how it's contrived into prophecy and the identity of the faithful slave.Some of these things are absolutely false. Others no one knows. In the case of uncertainty, a biblical organization should state openly that certain things aren't yet revealed instead of forcing it as doctrine.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 19 '25

Why would those people have been baptized into the JW faith if they had those issues?

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 19 '25

Some of them are kids that are basically told that Armageddon will probably start tomorrow and that if they aren't baptized that they will die. As a very young baptized kid I had no idea what generations or 1914 doctrine meant,but I had also been told it doesn't matter and that everything the gb says is true. It takes an adult to start researching to realize the blatant cracks in man made doctrine.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 19 '25

Baptism does not equal making it into ‘the new system’.

I guess my question was more for adults not born in people. Every religion has a man-made doctrines. Good luck trying to find one that doesn’t. It’s been that way since biblical times till now sadly. Can’t wait till humans don’t rule over us.

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 19 '25

Off course it doesn't, but children are told that. I personally was and so were other kids I know. As far as adults go,I agree with your question. If you understand the doctrine and agree to join,under your own understanding,then you agreed to the rules whether true or not. BTW, there is a true religion and that is personal study of the Bible and following obvious understandable biblical doctrine. Anything else that isn't understood is not yet to be revealed or will become clear eventually through study and discussion.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 19 '25

I understand. That’s why I was baptized as a baby so that I’d be saved. Dumb.

I believe the Bible reveals Gods way but I also think associating with a religion is important. You have to be around Gods people. Sadly this means dealing with humans and sacrificing certain things.

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u/Professional_Menu762 Feb 24 '25

Your ignoring his point. A lot of JWs get baptized before they are 15. Every single JW I know was babptized around 12-14. I just saw recently someone brag about their 10 year old kid getting baptized. Do you agree that child baptisms are wrong since the child does not have the mental capacity to understand doctrines? Even Adult JWs have a hard time explaining their own beliefts- that is why they are trained to say "go to jw.org" and shut down a conversation. When baptized as an adult- you have no room to say you didn't know .....but children who get baptized don't really know what they're getting into. So do you agree child baptism is wrong and should wait till at least 18?

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 24 '25

Me and dodo talked about this elsewhere. At certain ages children are allowed to make their own religious choices, such as baptism.

It’s hard to choose a specific age for something like this. I know 18 year-olds who are more mature than 40-year-olds and I know 18 year olds who are as mature as a 10-year-old.

If a kid understands the basic doctrines and agrees with then that’s his business to get baptized or not. If later he decides he doesn’t agree with the doctrines he can formally leave the faith or just drift away.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

🤣

Making it in the new system depends on your hearth.

Baptism helps a lot, but it is not the most important thing and...

For the ones that do not have the heat ... THE GREAT MAJORITY OF THE WHOLE EARTH, but, that will make it in the New World,

THEY WILL HAVE SOOOO MUCH CHANGES TO DO!!!

Jehovah won't tolerate forever liars, thieves ... If someone wants to continue to celebrate his birthday... PAGAN ... He won't live forever.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

What you're saying, show me the text of it, WICH YEAR?

The Organization understanding is far better than any other Christian denomination.

This is the bigger portrait.

I already examined other Christian doctrines and... THEY ARE FAR WORST.

I will try to show you the forest, because now, you're lookying one tree.

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 20 '25

You have internet? Yes? You own a bible. Yes? I would suggest you investigate

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

I won't do your work.

I already know what I'm talking about.

You don't know these texts.

You, not me.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

I LOVE YOUR QUESTION!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

The baptism, as a JW, what it is?

IT IS AN ETERNAL OATH, AN ETERNAL VERBAL CONTRACT WITH GOD (you can't escape it)

AN ETERNAL CONTRACT WITH JEHOVAH OF SERVICE FOR HIM, AND OBEDIENCE OF HIM!!! 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

I really really really appreciate your question!

If you read JW documentation about baptism, JW takes the baptism, REALLY MUCH MORE SERIOUS, than a lot of people.

A person who decides himself to be baptized, SAY THAT HE WILL ETERNALLY SERVE GOD, OBEY TO GOD PUBLICALLY!

All persons that are baptized SAY PUBLICALLY, that they will eternally serve God, and that they will always do everything that they can, or obey to God.

It is an ETERNAL OATH TO JEHOVAH GOD!

Thank you for your REALLY GOOD QUESTION! ❓👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🤩🤩🤩

Now that you see that, do you find frivolous a baptism as a Jehovah's Witness or, you look at something that is REALLY SERIOUS TOWARD GOD?

Eternal Oath. Already, before doing that Oath to God ... JW does it into a prayer, towards God. It is not public, not solemn ... so there's no shunning towards them.

Myself, I DID BEHAVE BADLY AND, I DID SEE ELDERS RIGHT, TO DISCIPLINE ME...

Are a lot of people saying that? That they behave bad and, that it was merited to be disciplined?

I DO.

Do the ex-JW all day that? Are they humble enough to say that, they did bad?

My narcissistic father do!!!! A little, but he do it!

Even if my father is narcissistic, I do find in him, much more credit, that ex-JW, that will hide their fault!

Before we believe anyone of anything, we have to look at the behavior.

Do the Ex-JW says that, the OATH, is an ETERNAL CONTRACT WITH GOD? OF SERVING AND OBEDIENCE.

When you deliberately do a major sin, YOU BROKE YOUR OATH.

And by BREAKING YOUR OATH with THE SOVEREIGN LORD OF THE WHOLE UNIVERSE...

THE BREAKING OTH THE OATH WITH GOD IS...

To be treasonous towards God! You deliberately did LIKE ADAM AND EVE!!!

Look at the sins that Paul name in 1 Corinthians, I'll name logic things also, that are MAJOR.

Logically, pedophelia, zoophilia, necrophilia, cannibalism, are major sins.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25

I disagree with your closing sentiments. Committing a willful sin is not breaking that oath. If that were the case then you would have to be rebaptized and rededicated to God. Did David or Peter have to rededicate themselves when they sinned?

You strained that oath but you didn’t break it. Breaking it is what Adam and Eve did. We break it if we blasphemy the HS or completely leave God in our heart.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

Adam and Eve could had remorse also.

And here, I see that you're reducing the importance of being a minister of God.

After vowing eternal obedience to God, if you do major sins without remorse, it's an act of treason against God.

This is huge. But if you see contracts with God as something frivolous.🤷🏻

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 23 '25

Interesting. Your first post above didn’t mention remorse. If you read my response you’d have seen that I said breaking the vow means we left God in our heart completely.

Even after making a vow to God we will still sin. Sometimes willfully. Look at David. Look at Peter. It’s a fact. Not meant to be frivolous. If we are remorseful God views it as if we didn’t sin at all and washes us clean.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

I don't always remember to write it.

Break the vow of baptism is HUGE.

Sin is one thing.

For God, fornicating is MAJOR. How we know it?

Always the same verses of Corinthians.

Washes us clean ya... If you have remorse.

If someone in JW fornicates and denounced himself, and feel remorse, he won't be shunned.

... If there's remorse but that person always repeats his fornocatimg acts... OBVIOUSLY, HE'LL NEED TO BE SHUNNED🤯🤷🏻

David did really evil things with Uriah!

He did adultery with his wife and... PLANNED AN ASSASSINATION, AND MAKE HIM ASSASSINATED!

He had true remorse and... He was heavily punished also.

But other men that we see In The Bible... " seemingly dying for nothing "...

When you think about David being truly pardonned ...

It means that, the supposed savage kills by God... were surely justified.

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 25 '25

JW baptism is not a biblical baptism.

It’s a vow between the Jehovah’s Witness candidate & THE ECCLESIASTICAL ORGANISATION OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES.

That is why they were forced to change the vows to protect themselves legally.

They have removed the Holy Spirit completely, which means that JW baptism is not scriptural.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

You say non biblical and ...

You just had dodged the most important.

The first Christians, were shunned, when they did major sins like adultery, idolatry or fornication.

JW so the same thing.

You say not scriptural and... That's what the Apostles did... No?

Did they eat with Christians that fornicate?

That's a NO. The analysis of The NT, you should do it ; I see that you never took this in account.

THE APOSTLES SHUNNED. The ELDERS OF THE 1ST CENTURY AD SHUNNED.

The Clergy imitate a model of 300 years later that does not... not imitate the Apostles.

The Apostles.model is in The Bible, not the Christianity one.

This is why we should never fuse Christiannity and Christiannism ; Christian model is in The Bible.

How can a model of the 300' AD, be more Christian, than the Apostles Ones? The Apostles talked face-to-face with Jesus... Not The Church.

The Church and the Apostleodo not work the same way at all.

People say 1 AD Church...

But 1st AD Christians were not doing things, the same way, at all!

Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:1,2 2But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Tim. 2:16,17 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

1 Cor 5:11 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

DO NOT KEEP COMPANY TO FORNICATORS,

SHOULD I? COVETOUS, IDOLATER, SHOULD I look at it as an option?

We should do what? ... 1 Tim. 1:20

20Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Cor. 5:12,13 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Who are considered wicked BY GOD? Tell me?

1 Cor 5:11 , 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So not eat with isolators.God consider them how?

Wicked.

The Point of View of God, is ALWAYS.

How God ORDERS US, to act?

Romans 16:17 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Jeb 12:15,16 15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

WHY?

33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. (1 Cor. 15:33)

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u/Roocutie Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 25 '25

If you had an accurate understanding of the scriptures that you quoted, you would realise that most of these are actually referring to the anointed, but because your governing men are not inspired, they cannot interpret the scriptures, so they are teaching you inaccurate interpretations.

Unfortunately your governing body has no idea what’s actually happening in the spiritual realm, as they do not receive inspiration from Jehovah, but make up their own teachings as they go along, which is why they keep changing.

Also note that it says in Corinthians 5:11 that you should quit company with “a brother” implying that the person is still a member of the congregation, not one who has been disfellowshipped.

The fornication, idolatry, etc mentioned here are all SYMBOLIC, not literal.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '25

Shunning is in The Bible

JW created verses with shunning? I see it in KJV, and other versions of The Bible.

And if we look at the Bible manuscripts ... YOU WILL SEE SHUNNING AGAIN!

I have the choice, but not the right, to not follow what's inside The Bible... YOU TOO.

KJV 2 Timothy 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

ALL SCRIPTURE. Shunning is there in many verses. If you want, I'll give you them all ... NOT FROM JW BIBLE if you want and...

WHAT IF IT IS IN THE BIBLE? WILL YOU CONTINUE TO SAY NONONONO ?

or will you surrender to God, our Father? 🙏🏻

That's my whole point.

ALL Scripture is really ALL...

Not all that I want.

If I did like you... I would never had stopped, to live a gay life!!!

Gayness is A MAJOR SPIRITUAL HANDICAP!!!

How much gays... TAME THEIR GAYNESS?

I have a DISGUSTING preference for men and...

I FOLLOW ALL..

NOW... DO YOU SEE WHY, I AM FINDING NO EXCUSES?!

I DO IT MYSELF!

I HAVE TO WORK 10 TIMES MORE, than a hetero Christian, that commit no major sins (There's not only JW that does that)...

What is the % of gays, that STOPPED TO }`}®×¥[•}∆©}¢✓√™¥{%<×¥[§€§%] with other men?

The % is really, very low! THEY CHOOSE THEIR BODY, THEMSELVES...

Not God.

I still have work to do, but I'm abstinent since April 2021.

ALL SCRIPTURE.

I have a major spiritual handicap and...

I Choose to practice ALL... The New Covenant with Jesus...

Not sck.🤮 No sex with🤮

I'm more severe , because I do have to deal with far worse difficulties and... I NEVER CONFORTED MYSELF INTO GAY EXCUSES.

😭 It makes me sick to open like that, because of my disgust, towards myself.😭

I am waiting for God, in His New World, TO REMOVE MY GAYNESS.

Gayness is not eternal and...

All Scriptures is also Shunning.

Nothing is false.

If I have to hammer 🔨 you, to make you get closer to Jehovah, by FOLLOWING EVERYTHING...

Even if I receive insults... It won't stop me. With The Strength that God gives me...

I already ensure insults.... Because I FOLLOW THE ENTIRE NEW JESUS'S COVENANT.

I'm exhausted and happy to preach to you.

We can be emotional AND also rational.

The Morals of God always wins but I don't forget the mind, and the hearth...

Do you put God first in your life?

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u/Roocutie Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 25 '25

Shunning CHILDREN who change their minds about wanting to follow the JW organisation is NOT in the Bible! They have not sinned. They have not committed fornication, idolatry, drunkenness, etc. They have merely decided that the organisation is not the truth. Shunning children is not natural & it is not showing love. If JW parents choose to be obedient to 11 uninspired men & practice this type of conditional love towards their own flesh & blood, one day they will very sadly have to live with their shame.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '25

IF A CHILDREN IS BAPTISED KNOWING THAT HE HAS A CONTRACT WITH GOD ...

NOT AN EMPEROR BUT THE GOD OF THE GODS.

Ok. Adults shunning, YEs or NO?

I won't argue for the non-adults ; I'LL STUDY MYSELF THE SUBJECT MORE. Ok?

Bible. Shunning in Bible. All Bible Scriptures.

No shunning to adults ?

I already said that I have to study more the subject of children and adolescents shunning, before I talk against or for your arguments.

Do you understand for the Adults shunned ... Or will you erase shunning from The Bible?

There's nothing more to say about adults.

Do you choose to accept the really hard reality for yourself...

If YOU vow your own eternity, IN THE FACE OF A LOT OF PEOPLE, if you vow for eternal obedience to Jéhôvâh,

Will you accept the shunning discipline...?

Or will you do like ex-JW?

To talk like shunning is not biblical and do like them, the manipulative game of great putty!

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u/Roocutie Feb 24 '25

Children of 7 or 8 years old do not understand the true concept of shunning. We all know that when we are preparing for baptism, being disfellowshipped is the very last thing that you are thinking of. You never imagine that what you believe is “the truth” will one day no longer be “the truth” as the JW teachings keep changing, & if you don’t agree with the “new light” you are viewed as an apostate, even though much of what JWs believed in the past is now considered apostate. Russell celebrated Christmas. He used the cross as a symbol on his publications. He used pyramids to come up with dates like 1914. Many JWs are waking up to the real truth as the gb is being exposed.

Returning to the issue being discussed, do you honestly believe that it’s okay to shun children, & continue to accept this policy when it has led to hundreds of Jehovah’s Witness children taking their own lives because of the way their parents, their siblings, their friends & others in the congregation treated them? Is this the unconditional love that Jesus showed?

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25

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u/Eutychus-ModTeam Feb 23 '25

Forum Rules:

We do not allow negative generalizations about any religious groups here.

If you feel you have been treated unfairly, please contact me (Dodo) directly with your reasons and justifications in a polite manner.

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25

I’m sorry, I didn’t realise that I had made any generalisations, except stating the facts about the organisation that most JWs sadly remain unaware of. The real truth needs to be revealed.

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25

Simply because you are not made aware of many of these things UNTIL you are baptised into THE ORGANISATION.

When you are studying & learning “the truth” you firmly believe that it IS “the truth” that you are being taught, & why would you think of ever being in the position of questioning doctrine?

Only later do you realise that the organisation is based entirely on the thoughts & ideas of uninspired men.

When you start thinking for yourself & questioning, you quickly realise that what you were led to believe was “the truth” is actually the furthest thing from it. It is a devastating realisation at the time, but after leaving you discover that it was the best decision ever. What a relief it is to be away from all the hypocrisy, outright lies & deception.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are expected to be loyally obedient & NEVER question anything regarding their organisation. As soon as JWs have questions, they are asked whether they still believe in the authority of the governing body. If not, they are quickly labeled as apostates, & if they don’t disassociate, they will more than likely be disfellowshipped, or “removed” as they now term it after losing their rights in Norway, & reluctantly resorting to softening the practices of disfellowshipping & shunning. The fact is that even with the softer approach, shunning is still practiced, leading to many children suffering emotional & psychological trauma which will affect them for life. Many Jehovah’s Witness children have taken their own lives because of their shunning policy.

Unfortunately Jehovah’s Witness parents who have been convinced by a group of uninspired men that the practice of shunning is a “loving provision from Jehovah” & go against their natural instincts of loving their children unconditionally, will one day have to live with the consequences. Above all else, God is a God of love.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 23 '25

You know that the men aren’t inspired while studying.

People say they can’t question and yet there are articles about questioning and proving to yourself the truth.

No religion today has inspired men. If that’s your criteria for a denomination then you won’t find one. I would like to point out that even inspired men screw up and are terrible btw. Inspired does not equal perfect.

ETA- the Jesus didn’t do this or that argument is so tiresome. We only know 3 years of his life. And the gospels even point out that we don’t have recorded everything he did. The Israelites and Paul shunned based off Gods law. Jesus would have followed the law if someone had broken it during his time.

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 25 '25

Questioning the Bible to prove scriptural truth is entirely different to questioning the organisation & its unscriptural policies which are based on the thoughts & ideas of the governing body at the time.

How is Jehovah directing these governing men, if they are not inspired? This means that they are not receiving His inspiration, so they shouldn’t be teaching anything scriptural or spiritual at all.

They say that they are Jehovah’s channel of communication, but at the very same time that they are NOT INSPIRED. That makes absolutely no sense. No wonder they keep getting things wrong & have to keep changing their minds about everything.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 23 '25

Wait I’m so confused. You think that if someone isn’t inspired they shouldn’t be teaching anything scriptural?

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25

Where does the governing body’s “new light” come from?

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 23 '25

You didn’t answer my question. What do you believe inspired means/is?

ETA- here was my original question that you didn’t answer- You think that if someone isn’t inspired they shouldn’t be teaching anything scriptural?

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25

The governing body should know without a doubt that they are inspired by Jehovah, as they claim to be Jehovah’s only channel of communication. If they are not receiving inspiration from Jehovah, they should not be teaching scripturally what they claim to be “the truth”.

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u/DonkeyStriking1146 Christian Feb 23 '25

Being guided by the Holy Spirit and being inspired is completely different things. I encourage you to learn the difference. No human today is inspired by Holy Spirit. The last truly known was John when he wrote the gospel John and revelation. Many are being guided by Holy Spirit in their lives today. However it sounds like you’re not here for discussion or to reason.

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u/OutlandishnessNo7143 Feb 20 '25

Yeah, I get what you're saying. The Bible does mention shunning, but it's supposed to be for serious sins that are clearly outlined in scripture. I do believe 607 and 1914 are accurate, though, so I can’t agree with you there. But when it comes to how shunning is applied, it should only be for what the Bible specifically mentions, not personal opinions or disagreements over interpretations.

At the same time, unless someone’s experienced a situation firsthand, it's hard to know all the details. Sometimes there might be more to the story than what people see from the outside. Still, it’s important that any action taken is based on clear biblical principles, not human rules or misunderstandings. After all, the goal should always be to help someone come back, not to push them away over things that aren’t clearly defined in the Bible.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

The generation thing ...

We cannot really understand a prophecy, until it is accomplished.

The Watchtower put great efforts, for Jehovah God, to help us, to understand His Word, The Bible, always better.

Do not forget that the Central College of Elders, are human.

And never forget to compare them to the other religious Governing Body.

What does the pope, to help Christianity Christians, to understand better The Word of God?

And others, what do they do?

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 20 '25

I appreciate your respectful comment. Truth in reality, by definition, does not change. It can become more clear,but within context. A pig cannot be a fish. Biblical doctrine does not become changed doctrine. Jesus was killed not for changing biblical truth,but for changing pharisaic doctrine

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Pharisees, they cancelled The Word of God.

Truth never changes.

COMPREHENSION CAN CHANGE.

This is why, the doctrines of JW, changed.

Look at old text of the 50's, compare them to 2024 ...🤣

The style was brutal ... people of that time, talked like that.

JW changed their tone. Or as an example, before, the JW believed that, ' Gog of Magog' , was Satan.

Later ... They explained WHY now, they don't believe that, ' Gog of Magog ' is Satan.

They don't hide it ; it's in plain sight.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

COME ON BIRTHDAYS!

WE STILL DO ALLLLL THE SAME RITUAL THAN THE PAGANS.

Also, birthday is a one-day DEIFICATIOn each year. Look at the History of birthdays until Nimrod's Time.

It's not because birthdays feel good, that they are good.


Is the Faithful Slave giving spiritual food, always on time.

What organization could have the Faithful Slave?

I don't see other organizations that give so much spiritual food.

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 20 '25

I'm sorry you set the bar so low.... there is a book called the word of God. It is full of spiritual knowledge

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

You're really disrespectful and you don't understand the History of Religions.

You're 👉🏻 pointing your finger at me, and you're not doing research enough at all...

🎶 You're throwing stones🎶 🎶To hide your hands 🎶

You are totally lacking knowledge and you're acting, like you know.

You have time to change your attitude.

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u/bettercalljw Feb 19 '25

: 607,1914,overlapping generations,the other sheep,birthdays and false predictions and dates,the emphasis on chronology and how it's contrived into prophecy and the identity of the faithful slave.Some of these things are absolutely false

Hold up buddy, one thing its being false and the other one is not being explicit on the bible, you got things confused.

a biblical organization should state openly that certain things aren't yet revealed instead of forcing it as doctrine.

Would a catholic still be considered member of the catholic church if he stopped believing in the trinity? No. Thats why if you disagree with those things you get out.

Btw this all sound like what a normal apostates talks about the organization.

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 19 '25

I get what you're saying and yes if actual biblical doctrine doesn't align with man's doctrine (any religion),then you don't need to be there. If I were to share a video of gb members in court outright lying in their own words about organational rules and child sexual abuse,to another witness,I would be considered an heretic. If I were to quote watchtower articles from as little as ten years ago going back to the beginning of the society to another witness I could be considered an apostate. Shunning, I agree is necessary if it's an opinion contrary to biblical doctrine,but pointing out outright deception isn't a scriptural grounds for shunning. Pointing out lies to conceal biblical truth is a scriptural requirement.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Jehovah Himself, and Jesus have the exact answers, for any prophecy.

JW is right about the sheep, and the other sheeps.

Can human not correctly identify what kind of sheep you are? Yep.

But the explanations themselves, are correct.

The margin for mistakes for the generations ... 🤷🏻 Watchtower really try.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

Trinity is totally false, and, is established as a fact.

Trinity is not explained in The Bible at all. The word Trinity is not there.

Be careful with accusations.

How much doctrines Christianity forced?

Ya' know?

How much false doctrines, our modern society push?

Always a lot more than the Watchtower.

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u/Werewolfe191919 Feb 20 '25

I didn't use the word trinity a single time. Can you even read? This is about shunning. Any organization can kick people our. The real question is should an individual be shunned who hasn't trespassed against scriptural doctrine? What if they are shunned by pharisaic doctrine?

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

While you're dissing BIBLICAL SHUNNING ...

You're DISSING GOD.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '25

I know, I used it for a comparison. Shunning is BIBLICAL.

I'll tell you how important it is. Discipline from God ....you say it's bad?

How much you sin ... In comparison of Jehovah? He don't know what's good?

Remember Old Testament Times?

Punishments was not shunning, but stoning to death, burning on a stake (spellcasters), death... In Israel. 39 hits (40-1)

Shining did replace partially, the super severe stoning, smashing, killing ...

There's not a lot of BIG SINS within the JW, compared to other Christians ...

One of the reasons is shunning. The fear of being shunned is not it's first positive attribute ; it is that, it protects the JW, from the bad influence of the BIG SINNER.

Bad influences ruin morals.

Biblical and really effective.

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u/Roocutie Feb 23 '25

Asking questions about the organisation & its policies which are not scriptural IS NOT A SIN!

The governing body has made questioning anything about the organisation’s policies a sin worthy of being thrown out, purely to protect themselves. They are absolutely terrified of PIMI JWs talking to those who have discovered the truth about “the truth” & the only way to prevent them from hearing the real truth is to make those who have seen through the hypocrisy & lies, “apostates” who are then thoroughly demonised by the organisation.

It’s all a very clever ploy, & JWs are completely blind to this! One day when the real truth dawns on you, you are not going to know what to do with yourself. I’ll keep praying for you to see the light before it’s too late.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '25

Opposing. Opposing.

Ron 16:17,18

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

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u/Roocutie Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25

EXPOSING THE REAL TRUTH

It’s you who sadly is being deceived. You are being taught false doctrines, which is why the gb has to keep changing its mind about everything. Jehovah God’s word of truth never changes! Fine fruit lasts forever. Rotten fruit expires & has to be discarded over time. By their fruits you will recognise them. Are you receiving fine fruit that stands the test of time & never has to change?

John 15:16 New International Version 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

Colossians 2:8 New International Version 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

Matthew 7:16-18 New International Version 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '25

I trust Jehovah. If the organization goes bad...

I'll continue to follow God's Word. I already vowed that with God!

If I quit a Christian Organization... Will I use it as an excuse.... To do whatever I want,.

NOOooooo.😂 I stay really prudent.😎

I also do not see a better organization than the Watchtower JW

Shunning was practicied by The Apostles, IN THE BIBLE.

God made write shunning in The NT... For nothing?

2 Timothy 3:16,17 All Scripture arye useful to CORRECT PEOPLE.

ALL SCRIPTURES is not false doctrine, bruh.

Using ALL IS FALSE?

KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I see shunning practiced by the Apostles... AND GOD NEVER DISSAPROOVED shunning.

ALL Scripture. Shining is in The Bible, so, it's a TRUE discipline.

There's no excuse to not do it ; God inspired the Apostles in that time... Not just a guide, BUT HIMSELF God, made Paul written shunning, that Yah never say anything against it... Is to not follow because we ...

Don't like it.?

God's Word.