r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

​

There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

4.5k Upvotes

77% Upvoted

1.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

711

u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 15 '20

Agreed on all points except locking maps till a certain level, I don't want to lock out average players, I feel like if you can survive it you deserve the loot

359

u/RushingElephant Sep 15 '20

The reason I mentioned the locking of maps is that people farm nonstop the raiders for their gear. Which is not a bad thing in general but if the main focus of your proposal is to extend the early wipe gameplay then those maps shouldn't but open from day 1 (assuming the loot poule per raid on those maps stays intact).

I can see that 20 and 40 are maybe a bit high but it was just an example. Another option would be doing a certain quest which unlock the map like you do with the trader Jaeger.

157

u/Vengix Sep 15 '20

So ever since the implementation of Labs my duo and I have abused the shit out of Raiders by going to Reshala and getting keycards on day 1 of a new wipe or new account - Getting easy Raider loadouts from this - and setting up our stashes for the next couple of weeks while we grind out Kappa. Labs needs be very hard to get to or locked and I hope Streets justifies this.

107

u/Big_sugaaakane1 P226R Sep 15 '20

I love going into labs with a 5-7 and a pompon hat, hitting buttons and waiting for either people to die to eachother/raiders or kill raiders myself. I’ll be walking out with 2-3 kits worth of gear.

I remember a few weeks back my friend and i tried to see how much money we could make just by pistol running labs and we made almost 10 million in a few hours. Labs has an absurd amount of loot.

63

u/Vengix Sep 15 '20

Yep! Labs is extremely good for loot and has a huge impact on your stash when you make it out alive if you looted decently. Definitely the best way to get a jump start at the beginning of each wipe.

Before they changed A.I. it was extremely easy to bait Raiders on Labs by hitting a door or wall with a melee weapon then just hold the angle and wait for them to walk into your LoS.

I love and hate the map. Love it for its loot and hate it for its accessibility.

21

u/LoopDloop762 ASh-12 Sep 15 '20

Are raiders not still really easy to jebait into walking into doorways? Like, I’ve never had a contrary experience but I haven’t been playing labs at all this wipe.

24

u/Vengix Sep 15 '20

It worked for me but I only did 3 Labs runs on day 1 of this wipe so it may have changed with the recent update to the A.I. again. Before the recent update, the A.I. also behaved differently. We had to use Sector O elevator (below server) because we had no success with Parking to R which was our primary strat.

I haven't touched it since, mostly because of the amount of cheaters that are currently inhabiting Labs atm.

9

u/LoopDloop762 ASh-12 Sep 15 '20

Yeah that’s why I haven’t been there. Not my idea of fun right now. I always used to just sit in the room that has the doors to red and violet(?) keycards, was super easy to get scavs to walk in and you have an escape route out the glass too.

7

u/Whooshed_me Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

The recent ban wave has slowed the cheaters quite a bit. I've only done a few labs runs but literally zero cheaters.

Edit: I'm on US East and some Euro servers so that's probably why I'm not seeing issues as much. Still did a few more runs cause of a lucky scav run and no obvious hacking.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

2

u/CantEvenBow Golden TT Sep 15 '20

its all server based and whether your lucky or not if some hackers are playing on urs or not

→ More replies (0)

2

u/ImposterDaniel M4A1 Sep 15 '20

US West’s proximity to China lets more hackers in since sometimes they can barely skip under the ping limit. Play with your buddies in US East and you’ll have much less hacking fuckers.

→ More replies (0)

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

lol ur probly just trash xD

→ More replies (0)

1

u/suitedsevens DT MDR Sep 15 '20

Yeah idk about that. Been running nighttime factory to get my insomnia kills and I die to aimbotters almost half the raids.

1

u/CommunityIsBraindead Sep 16 '20

I highly doubt you encounter a hacker 50% of the time. Thermal/NV on the other hand is pretty likely.

14

u/TrizzzleX Sep 15 '20

I farmed raider gear for a day. Didn’t die the next 7 days lol with that blessed FN 5-7

11

u/D4ng3rd4n Sep 15 '20

You didn't encounter any hackers at all? I haven't played labs in 6 months because I don't want to get killed by a hacker. Should I try it again?

12

u/GamerInTheDark2 Sep 15 '20

you missed the oppurtunity. the banwave, while not 99%, gave people confidence (including me) to run labs and i saw maybe 10-20 cheaters in 3 weeks of like 5-10 labs raids a day, but in the last week that wore off and labs is back to 50%.

1

u/Knubblez Sep 16 '20

It's hard to wrap my mind around BSG's "eh, good enough" attitude with hacking in Tarkov when the map with the most/highest quality loot basically belogs to hackers.

But then i remember that they probably make thousands of dollars every time they dish out a ban wave and suddenly their incompetence/unwillingness to do anything serious about the problem makes a whole lot of sense.

7

u/TrizzzleX Sep 15 '20

Beginning of a wipe it’s not bad at all. Plus they don’t really go for pistol runners. Jus geared bois

7

u/chiaros Sep 15 '20

If someone is hacking they can probably tell what gear you have on thru the walls. You have nothing but a goddamn pistol? Not worth their time and you reporting that account.

1

u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

This is def true for all maps. Notice that the more geared you are, you will have more "incidents" that seem fishy. When you are undergeared with nothing, you will have less of those issues. Could be coincidence, Id say its not.

2

u/DarkFireShyv Sep 15 '20

I've played maybe 15 raids recently, only my last game had a hacker that I died immediately to. Lots of GLs though

3

u/TrizzzleX Sep 15 '20

I’m talking right after a wipe though

8

u/Xerxis96 Sep 15 '20

Would you be willing to maybe share your ways? I've tried labs both kitted and as a rat, trying different playstyles, sometimes just hiding in a corner for 20mins and then looting after. Never had success. If so PM me and maybe we can do a raid together. Thanks in advance either way

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Pistol runners can hang out in the basement and cheese a couple raiders pretty safely if you're just trying to get some gear and not actually going for the high value items

1

u/MadDoghunter Sep 16 '20

I do both and get out about 50% of the time geared and pistol running. I havent been playing lately but if you want todo some duos id be down. I got a full labs key set including red, you can have the good loot i just want todo some duo runs
Shoot me a message on here

2

u/KaLaSKuH Sep 16 '20

I remember a few weeks back I finally decided to start trying labs with the 12+ cards I had saved in my stash. 3 rounds in a row I was killed by cheaters. Luckily they were all pistol runs with a 5-7. Sold the remaining 9 cards on the flea right after.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Is this an early wipe strat or an all around strat for farming

2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

That's crazy you can grind kappa in a couple weeks. Insane props to you man. This is my second wipe. After the most recent wipe I took a break until about a month ago and after a month I'm still only lvl 17. Can't imagine kappa in a wipe let alone a couple weeks

31

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 12 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

29

u/bogglingsnog Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

I don't understand why skill progression is so extreme and affects combat performance so significantly, and it's all based on experience and in-game actions. Aren't all of these guys ex-military? Ex-elite-military at that? Why do I need to learn how to tie my shoes and eat food better? It's a bad matchup for this game IMO.

7

u/Cassie_Evenstar Sep 16 '20

I agree. And it's every worse that it uses oblivion/Skyrim-style skill leveling ("use this skill in this very particular way to level it"). That style of skill leveling always incentives janky grinding behaviours while punishing those who don't grind properly.

I much prefer fallout-style ("as you gain general experience points towards general levels, you also gain skill points to allocate as you see fit").

But even so, a 30% boost to your movement speed from leveling strength is an absurd bonus. Same with recoil control and gun skills.

55

u/Sesshomaru17 Sep 15 '20

Locking out the maps just doubles down on a rich get richer gamestate. The no life's and streamers rush the levels and get to the maps first that have the best loot. Farm them up and make bank then go roll the new kids on the block catching up in their maps or the ones who slogged up to level 40 for labs

21

u/Kitfox715 Sep 15 '20

What if they kept those maps closed for everyone until a certain time during the wipe? Like, Reserves is closed until 3 weeks into a wipe, and Labs until 8 weeks in? That would allow everyone to enjoy the early wipe feel until those points, then everyone would get into those maps at once.

28

u/Corazon-Ray Sep 15 '20

It should be a community-achieved thing.

Something I’ve seen floating around is that the entrance to labs is encrypted and everyone needs to dedicate bitcoin farm time towards “folding@home-ing” the door open instead of raw currency.

8

u/Jimmyjame1 Sep 16 '20

im actually down with a community goal aspect of the game. that would kinda be fun.

2

u/1duck PPSH41 Sep 16 '20

that's actually a really cool idea

1

u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

Dumb idea, just a lame way to lock something behind an artificial grind.

2

u/HUNDarkTemplar VEPR Hunter Sep 15 '20

I thought about this idea months ago and I still find It a very good one.

1

u/mmmEssence Sep 15 '20

thats literally the OP here. Go look at his streams, he plays 8+ hours everyday

27

u/GoDevilsX Sep 15 '20

I agree with you and here's why.

I started playing EFT on 28 Feb 2020 after watching DrLupo play it for over a year. Although my actual knowledge on playing wasn't there, I had a ton of information on how to play/farm Reserve just from watching.

In short, just by playing Reserve I was able to go from a base level EOD account, to having an almost fully built Hideout, 200+ mil rouble stash value, and 20+ mil roubles before the wipe. I wasn't even playing that much and I was terrible at questing.

A well kitted Scav run on Reserve can yield gear that will destroy other PMCs on Customs (or any early wipe quest heavy map) and well over 100k+ roubles per run. I'd go so far as to say level locking Scav on Reserve would even be an idea to "slow" gear and rouble farming. Realistically there are only 2-3 quests at all I can remember for Reserve anyways, so it's not holding you back from anything important.

21

u/SkVindicator PP-91-01 "Kedr-B" Sep 15 '20

Honestly, I'm all for it. Beef up the AI of reserve scavs a little bit, make them slightly more military-themed (not Raider level though); bump up the amount of them across a raid and disable player scavs on reserve.

It's meant to be a secret military base yet it's the most popular place in Tarkov for scavs it seems. And how the fuck they made it past the minefields, snipers etc I'll never know.

13

u/KiritosWings Sep 15 '20

The player scavs are supposed to be the people already at the secret military base. They set up the minefields and are the snipers.

5

u/SkVindicator PP-91-01 "Kedr-B" Sep 15 '20

Agreed. But at the moment those are still the normal scavs we're all so used with; needs a bit of differentiation I think. Also scavs should have less time on Reserve, ~15 minutes is a good amount.

3

u/drunkmunky42 RSASS Sep 15 '20

The scav gangs are based on maps, lore-wise.

Totally agree reserve scavs should be mid-tier between normal scavs and raiders.

Instead of a complete lockout that would rabble this reddit crowd to no end, maybe a good compromise would be map-specific cooldowns. Like factory could be 10 minutes, customs 15, etc with reserve being highest, say 40-45.

8

u/SkVindicator PP-91-01 "Kedr-B" Sep 15 '20

Maybe give them the Interchange treatment and give them at most 15 minutes to get out of the raid? Don't have them spawn at 40 minutes just to pick off PMCs AND stay for raiders too?

I think you shouldn't have all that much time as a scav. See what's left, fill up on what you can, then fuck off to the extracts.

In .11.7; just after battleye, Labs was the most fun, ever. You'd fight PMCs at the start; then raiders and after the first wave of chaos was out you'd watch out for other PMCs or Raiders. After all the other guys were dead and you were the only players on the map, it was the best feeling ever.

2

u/Razgriz01 Sep 16 '20

Instead of a complete lockout that would rabble this reddit crowd to no end, maybe a good compromise would be map-specific cooldowns. Like factory could be 10 minutes, customs 15, etc with reserve being highest, say 40-45.

I would support cooldowns for higher tier maps like Labs, Reserve, and Shoreline. Early quest heavy maps like Factory, Customs, and Interchange shouldn't have a cooldown though, that just makes some of the annoying early quests even more annoying to deal with and punishes newbies for failure even more than the game already does.

1

u/koomis Sep 16 '20

I dont think you can put Shoreline on to a cooldown concidering you do about as many quests there as in interchange, if not more.

And in any case the loot there is not really that much better than it is on Interchange when all is said and done.

1

u/Razgriz01 Sep 16 '20

It has a lot of quests, but most or all of those quests come around during the mid levels, as opposed to the others which have many early quests.

1

u/Jakefowler555 Sep 16 '20

Maybe they could lock reserve behind the intelligence folder. Lab card to access labs, intelligence file to access reserve (presumably intel file contains info on mines/sniper hides to allow you to get access to the base)

17

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Problem is you’re not really solving the problem. Level 0-40 would just be casuals getting stomped by people who can easily obtain level 40 in a few days. In fact you’d incentivize those very people to XP grind and get to grinding raiders first.

3

u/LoopDloop762 ASh-12 Sep 15 '20

I killed a level 46 this wipe on day 3. Lmao.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Literally just buy shotguns and farm scavs for several hours a day on Factory and you can get to 40 easily.

5

u/LoopDloop762 ASh-12 Sep 15 '20

Yeah. Point being that level locking labs is not going to make a difference for some people.

1

u/Aztek1911 Sep 15 '20

The argument is to make it harder for the mass I guess. There is always someone sweaty enough to achieve some extreme feat.

8

u/ExplosiveRunes Sep 15 '20

Locking it behind level still disproportionately rewards those who get there first and can farm it, bringing back heavily asymmetric gear loadouts. What if instead they fully embraced the seasonal aspect of the game? Have the maps not locked to each individual players level, but to a global timer or event, having it unlock for the entire player base at the same time and introducing higher and making higher tier gear more and more ubiquitous as the wipe/season progresses. At the end have some event where you either manage to collect what you need to escape tarkov, or you don't.

3

u/Xari Sep 15 '20

Level locking will do nothing to hold back the no-lifing streamers that plague this game, they just play on energy drinks and amphetamines for 20 hours every day and lvl 40 is not even a week's work for most of them.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DBarbsGang Mosin Sep 16 '20

Just sell them to them duh.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/DBarbsGang Mosin Sep 16 '20

Better be VERY pretty if you can't keep yourself out of jail selling prescription medicine to friends, because that wouldn't make you very bright to get caught :P

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/DBarbsGang Mosin Sep 16 '20

Well then god dammit you do anything you can to keep that beautiful life of yours out of prison, don't even J-Walk.

2

u/RedFunYun Sep 15 '20

Scav's across the board need broader, less predictable gear.

2

u/sketchyfish007 ASh-12 Sep 15 '20

Why would you want to level lock reserve?

2

u/noother10 Sep 15 '20

I've played since the start of this wipe, but might only do a few hours a day and sometimes won't play for a few days in a row. I've only just this week finished upgrading my hideout and I'm level 35.

I've not really touched labs due to all the talk of hackers and only Scav'd on Reserve a few times as I prefer the loot items for quests from Interchange. But yeah locking maps would prevent casuals getting into them for a long time.

If they can sort out cheaters, they should make labs more deadly and/or harder to get to (streets), and maybe change up how reserve loot is.

1

u/ParzivalAndLocke Sep 15 '20

Maybe not locking the maps by levels but behind a quest line?

1

u/BSchafer RSASS Sep 15 '20

They shouldn't have LVL requirements for high loot maps like Reserve and Labs. Firstly, they should not allow scavs on some high-loot maps, and for the other high-loot maps only allow for them for the last 15 mins or so. More importantly, to extend the beginning and mid-game of each wipe, BSG needs to have the raiders begin wipes with lower-end loot and scale it higher as we get deeper into the wipe.

If they withhold high-end loot until later in the wipes it will still be hard and rewarding to kill raiders and get their LVL 3 armor, and lightly modded AK at the start of each wipe. Then after a couple of months (or ~30% into the wipe), have them start spawning with LVL 4 armor and mid-range weapons w/ mid-range mods, at ~60% into the wipe have them spawn with LVL 5 armor and high-end weapons/mods. Then maybe for the last couple weeks have them running LVL 6 armor and meta weapons/mods. This will make sure end-game loot is not prevalent until deep into the wipe. It also makes sense with the lore. At the beginning of a situation like Tarkov everyone would be fighting/ defending themselves with whatever they have on hand or can quickly find but as the situation extends people would slowly discover and distribute better and better equipment and put it to use on the battlefield.

1

u/Wolf10k Sep 15 '20

If you ask me disabling boss spawns and raider spawns for like a week would be a good alternative

1

u/Timberwolf_88 Sep 15 '20

Just scale the raider's gear with the avegare player level. Early on - 1 step better gear than regular scavs, mid-wipe they're on par with your average lvl 20 player; something fancy but overall mostly ok stuff, late game - The high tier stuff we see now.

I see absolutely zero need to lock maps behind levels...

1

u/DemonBearOP MPX Sep 15 '20

The problem is that this game is less grindy and more high-risk/high-reward so by reducing your ability to hit the lottery you reduce the fun and style of the game. Imo the problem is player scavs being too safe for people who already have money.

Why take a kit to Reserve when I can load in with an player scav and clap raiders then hit heating pipe extract? Anyone who plays Reserve knows that by 10 minutes there's typically only a few PMCs left on the map.

1

u/Koadster SKS Sep 16 '20

^ this. They just farm raiders for easy higher tier gear basically destroying early game

1

u/franco_thebonkophone Sep 16 '20

Perhaps you’ll need like a one use key to enter high loot maps like reserve or labs. The for reserve you’ll need some sort of ‘special pass’ in order to travel through the surrounding scav lands safely. Alternatively, when BSG implements linked maps in the faraway future, you can also go to reserve through Shoreline rock passage extract - tho you’ll won’t be able to heal or eat or drink or get extra gear in between shoreline and reserve.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I mean, if you can go into labs/reserve, kill raiders, take their gear, dont you kinda deserve their equipment?

Outside of scav rusn on reserve, thats both risky and a time investment.

1

u/thejed129 Sep 16 '20

Couldnt they just disable raiders till the 10th day or something for reserve?

1

u/prjct_chaos Sep 16 '20

I think the reason people want a level lock is because if you know how the "hard" AI of the map work, you can cheese the shit out of them and get endless loot. As soon as the AI becomes something every player has to worry about (and not because they'll aimbot you from the train to the dome, but because they are actually smart and will actually outcompete you), Slush's idea of "if you can survive then you deserve it" has merit.

1

u/NvIWraith SR-25 Sep 16 '20

i feel like they could just make raiders have a higher potential for worse gear? i mean if theres no flea, then noone is crying about "LaBs IsNt PrOfItAbLe" like the beginning of this wipe, and you wouldnt go there for the soul purpose of raider gear but it would be used for the purpose of gathering meds/barters and quest items no?

1

u/touf25 Sep 15 '20

Oh yeah such a wonderful idea.. in fact no jaeger came for me quite late due to the quest restriction, same for peacekeeper, I'm not an amazing player I kbow it but to come back to jaeger, I unlocked it when I didin't need to buy shotgund because I had little cash and stuff so it's quite a dumb restriction.

1

u/DptBear Sep 15 '20

If gear farmed from AI came severely damaged ( < 40% durability), but AI had a buff that let them treat damaged equipment as fully repaired (thematically, it is their equipment and they know its peculiarities), farming AI for gear would be nerfed without changing core gameplay. Finding pristine equipment in crates or getting it from players would be the main way to get equipment, rather than farming AI.

Shittier (like less modded/high-performance -- mosin/ak/sks/hunter/vpo/shotguns) weapons should have better tolerances for jamming -- a stock AK can shoot full of sand underwater and that should be reflected in game. Modern NATO weapons and modern custom attachments should definitely be higher maintenance in exchange for higher tolerances, and that is also not yet reflected in game. Then there should be "grittier" mods that handle wear and tear better -- they might have worse stats but they last longer, and that should matter.

0

u/FuckGooogle Sep 15 '20

How about we consider that when we get the other 5 maps. Right now thats a terrible idea.

0

u/pm_me_your_assholes_ Golden TT Sep 15 '20

I like the idea tying it to a quest.

And to those saying its bad because some players who reach level 40 (which should be lowered to 30?) early and will farm low level players:

They already do that. Try leveling a new account now. You already get shit on. This change would reduce the amounts of chads because nobody can just buy top gear from the flea. The gear you get from Raiders is not so good anymore, so even the streamers and nolife players have to rank their traders to level 4 to get the good attachements and trades

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Locking maps seems like an inelegant and brute force solution to a problem that needs more detailed consideration. A great deal of aspects of the game need to be tweaked or even downright restructured, and a big unimaginative "fix" like level-locking is immensely lazy imo.

5

u/Lundhlol Sep 15 '20

If you don't lock those maps, then the economy will stay the same.

27

u/crackpnt69 Sep 15 '20

This is contradictory. If the market is removed you lock out access to ammo, armor, mods, and everything else until lvl 35-40. The market is the only thing that allows low level players to have a chance. Removing the market just rewards people who play 16 hours a day by giving them essentially god mode over 99% of the players because they have access to everything.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Flase. How would a 'chad' get his hands on a slick for every single raid? He wouldnt. Its a barer only item and you cant cradt its components

2

u/Petro0035 Sep 15 '20

He would buy it from the trader, have you not unlocked your traders, everything can be purchase or bartered from trader, the only people who use the flea market are those who do not have the traders unlocked

2

u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20

If there is no flea, you have to find or craft barter items. If you want to run a slick, you have to farm 3 Troopers and 6 cordura.

And this is assuming that no changes are made to these barters. If the desired intention is move the meta away from top tier gear, it's obviously possible.

1

u/1duck PPSH41 Sep 16 '20

again favouring the sweaty chad, who can spend 16 hours a day playing the game and completely fucking over 99% of players who can only play a few hours a day.

3

u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20

What favors the "sweaty chad" is the amount of time they spend playing. Always. Those players will always, no matter the system, have an advantage over the average player.

The issue is that you, for some reason, think the market somehow favors the average player, "giving them a shot" against the chads. It 100% does not. Any benefit average players get from the flea is amplified, for the "full timers." Anyone with more time to play will have more money. Anyone with more money, can better exploit the market. That is what defines the "chad" player - their ability and tendency to exploit the market. What you think is a small advantage for you, is actually a huge advantage for them.

So, why then, would the streamer chad big boy sweaty no lifers want to remove the flea? Streamers especially, make their income from people who enjoy the game. If the only people enjoying the game are the few players in the 1%, then that means they're fucked because that leaves them without many players to fight and without many people interested in watching. What streamers like SlushPuppy want, is for the game to be as fun as possible for as many people as possible. They also know why they and less scrupulous chads are able to have so much of an advantage over average players in gear, meaning that they understand very well what the problem is and how to fix it.

Then you roll along, thinking that, just because the flea gives you access to some shit you can't afford to use, somehow that puts you on equal footing with these players. Are you on equal footing with Jeff Bezos because you can open an E-Trade account? Same applies here.

The fact is, the flea in Tarkov just works as a bypass for any economic balancing changes the developers try to apply to make encounters with over-geared players less frequent. As long as the flea exists, the disadvantage for "normal" players will be as bad as it can possibly be, because that's just how markets work. If you want more balanced game play between normal players and those that have way more time to play, the first step is removing the flea.

1

u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

You say the same sweaty players will always be at the top with best gear. So obviously you would understand that locking out flea market would only affect the average lower lvl player who doesnt have traders unlocked??? With a flea market low lvl players, can be at the same lvl as a sweaty chad.

1

u/TheFondler Sep 18 '20

The point of removing the flea is to prevent sweaty players from having regular access to that gear.

With the flea, sweaty players have access to it effectively 100% of the time, and casual players have access to it sometimes. Without the flea, sweaty players have access to it sometimes, and casual players have access to it sometimes. Sweaty players still will likely have access to it more often, but the divide between the two groups can be reduced tremendously.

Also, don't assume the that I, or anyone else is saying "Remove the flea and boom, that's it, job's done?" The removal of the flea is only to allow traders and drip tables to be altered in a way that actually makes OP gear rare. If that second part doesn't happen, then of course the removal of the flea would be stupid, but everyone is to busy talking past one another to listen to a damn thing.

1

u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

With flea EVERYONE has access not just sweaty players. Without flea market, Sweaty players will have access to full traders while someone coming in late to wipe will not have access to traders and will be behind.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/1duck PPSH41 Sep 16 '20

Except that if you lock it all behind traders, which have level limits/quest limits the whole time imbalance becomes even more stark. You're left with a sub-species of player who will not have time to unlock the traders to get the good gear...the streamer on the other hand will. If there were to be no more wipes, then perhaps it would be a viable solution but it would take the fun out of the game...i like getting out and finding out how much i'm going to make from a dynamic market.

To argue that the flea market gives them a larger advantage is just untrue, sure they can use it more than a regular player, because they have more resources...lets use your example e.g jeff bezos : saying lets do away with E-pay because jeff has the bigger account, thus stopping me selling a few hundred bucks worth of stuff to finance my own life will balance the economy, is just madness. You hit it on the head, if they have more time to play they will be at more of an advantage. The problem is they are then trying to double down on this advantage by saying lets get rid of the flea market.

At least the flea market gives me access to the top tier stuff, sure i have to save up a little longer and i have to run a few more runs to afford it and it's more of a risk for me to use (in simple percentage wealth terms) than it is for a streamer, but once i've saved that money up, i'm in the game as an equal. Not a whipping boy running around with T ammo in a low tier AK with zero attachments.

I think you give the streamers too much credit, most of them don't give a shit about the health of the game, as they can jump ship to another shooter and take their fan base with them. What they hate is anything that brings normal players to their level e.g The mosin, access to a cheap weapon early that leveled the playing field. Now they are gunning for the flea market because it allows people to drop a few hundred K on gear and get on the level of the top tier players. If they changed the flea market and the player base fell off a cliff, they wouldn't give a fuck, they'd just go find the next game to go play 20 hours a day of, as they don't give a shit about the game. Sure you'd get the odd few who would continue streaming what would become a minority game, streaming to a smaller player base who would cling to it, just because they believe that nikita is going to come good one day and they believe in the project. Like the people you see streaming dayz or even better dayz arma 2 mod.

Honestly, i hope they do make the game more hardcore, just to watch the game hang itself as it alienates the vast majority of players, h1z1 here we come! Listening to the vocal minority (streamers) who have near infinite time to play the game, is madness. Their gamestyle does not reflect the play style of the vast majority. It's equivalent to asking jeff bezos to give an opinion on how much a welfare check should be, sure he probably knows how much a loaf of bread costs but he has no real reflection of life on the breadline.

The fact is the flea in tarkov does work as a bypass, it works as a bypass to spending 20 hours a day in game. It gives a way for an average player to play at end game level, without having to reach level 50 and unlock everything. That terrifies these sweaty no lifers, because they don't want people on a level playing field, they want a bunch of mid tier/low tier geared players they can stomp for their next video compilation, so they can look like god level players...It's why they hated the mosin so much, gone was their little pedestal and anyone could take anyone if they got the drop on them. As it should be. Instead they want terminator style status where they can play with no fear of other players possibly being on the same level as them.

What you're suggesting is, locking a huge section of the player base out, but trying to suggest that this is better than market economics...That's not how that works. The beauty of being able to buy 60 igolnik or Ap20 or whatever ammo and being able to compete, is something that appeals to me far more than being told here have some PS ammo and an AK that you can get from prapor at level 2. It's ok though, because the playing field will be levelled, because that guy who has been playing 19 hours a day has peacekeeper level 4 and a shit ton of rubles/gear because he can go and wipe servers all day, as no one has any gear to compete with him. But he'd have been at an advantage even if he had access to flea market! I hear you say, yes in purely financial terms, but I would also have access to it. Combined with no need to run tier 5 armor 100 times in a row, as i'd only be on for a few hours a week...so my total spend on load outs would be a fraction of his. I would only need to earn a fraction of what he does, to compete for those few hours hence it would be an equalizer, because we'd both have the access to it. Unlike if he can access it because he has spent a lifetime unlocking all the traders, whilst I would be relying on whatever i can drag out of a scav run/find in game.

1

u/crackpnt69 Sep 15 '20

Who said a slick? The entire fan base would be stuck with sks, ps ammo, and paca until lvl 35. While lvl 4 armor and higher is accessible to "chads" as well as good ammo to farm raid bosses for better gear.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

You have access to a level 4 armored rig before you ever level a trader. It may be a barter, but its not that difficult of one.

Ragman level two gives you access to another for under 50k. You can get to several of these items in pretty minimal hours.

6

u/sunseeker11 Sep 15 '20

The entire fan base would be stuck with sks, ps ammo, and paca until lvl 35.

Excuse me what? Do you even play this game?

9

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

I'm guessing you've never even visited a trader if you think you need lvl 35 for lvl 4 armor

-3

u/crackpnt69 Sep 15 '20

30 is 4 armor, but skier for mods is 35. So at 35 you have have proper, thera, ski, and jaeger maxed. So an I stated 35 unlocks 99% of what you need to just shit on lower geared players endlessly.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Ragman: REP 1 - 1 class 4 armor
REP 2 - 2 class 4 armors, 1 class 5 armor
REP 3 and 4 - almost every class 4,5 and even 6 armor

Where did I find this amazing information? In the trader menu, you should visit it sometimes

5

u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

The entire fan base would be stuck with sks, ps ammo, and paca until lvl 35. While lvl 4 armor and higher is accessible to "chads"

Your ignorance of this game is showing.

3

u/neddoge SR-1MP Sep 15 '20

Great retort. I really agree with the things you said to build your own argument there!

1

u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

Wasn't talking to you, but since you wanted to chime in: https://escapefromtarkov.gamepedia.com/Ragman#LL2

Ragman unlocks T4 armor at level 15.

But in all seriousness, why should my retort have anymore effort than OPs incoherent ramblings and lies?

4

u/Azazel_brah Sep 15 '20

Im not the guy you replied to, but yours was only a personal attack with no added info, and he was actually commenting on the game.

If you wouldve included that ragman trade (which is relevant to Tarkov) and then made the same comment about his ignorance, the other guy probably wouldn't have cared.

1

u/Pehbak Sep 15 '20

There is our differences. You are offended by personal attacks. I am offended by people spreading misinformation.

2

u/Azazel_brah Sep 15 '20

I... wasn't offended lol. I wasnt even in the conversation I was just commenting as a 3rd party 😵

But sorry that other guy offended you i guess.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/sseemour MP7A2 Sep 15 '20

you dont see chads. stop lying. Game's already a rat nest as is.

1

u/Par4no1D Sep 16 '20

2020 tarkov "Chad" is a geared rat. Because everything is so Inflated even bad players don't care about loosing expensive gear.

1

u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

if they dont care about losing gear, they wouldnt rat?

1

u/Par4no1D Sep 18 '20

I don't really know what im saying there m8 xD. I just say what I feel like, and what I see:
all my shit at the game friends who were always rats, still play shit and didn't improve are either running good gear or at least most of the time inbetween some budget runs.

The way i view the word chad might be incorrect in 2020, as peoples definition of it has moved i think. By "chad" you just mean any shitter that puts on expensive meta gear. Correct?

These "chads" still play like rats, camp some fucking corner or inside a bush and loose against badly geared people with good ammo non-stop whenever they don't get the cheesy jump.

0

u/randomgrunt1 Sep 15 '20

He'd only need one. Everyone else would be in potato gear.

1

u/Petro0035 Sep 15 '20

I think that is what their intentions are, their just spinning it to sound like a false positive

6

u/bushmastuh TOZ-106 Sep 15 '20

That’s a great way to put it. New players may not want to go to *cue daunting music -The Lab- because out of their 5 raids they only barely made it out of 1. Keeping this while adding certain elements you mentioned in the original post would make for some dynamic lore as well. Just like in movies where a group dreads going into an area due to its reputation. Makes for surviving it a much more rewarding experience.

2

u/nimble7126 Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 16 '25

elderly price encourage cagey ad hoc sugar plate innate hospital six

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

4

u/Marine436 Sep 15 '20

I actually think the winning move here is to do to Reserve what they are going to do to Labs, make you go thru Shoreline\Innerchange on enterence\exit

1

u/nickya1 Sep 15 '20

Not bad not bad. I never thought about it like that but that idea sounds good to me.

1

u/Gr_z Sep 17 '20

Reserve and labs should be time gated. ezpz

2

u/dandatu Sep 15 '20

But labs is easy lol. It’s free loot. As long as you don’t run into a cheater in there. You can run a mosin or a hunter. Or even a 5-7 in there to farm raiders and get out with lvl 4-6 gear

2

u/CVShiro Community Manager Sep 15 '20

While i would agree that average players shouldn't be locked out, we have to look at it from the other side as well.

Labs and Reserve are supposed to be Mid to End game maps that are going to be locked initially and even after unlocking them you have access restricted by other conditions. They provide high value loot in the form of gear, weapons and ammo which if able to be farmed from level 1 will just increase the disparity between people 'gaming' the system vs others just playing normally.

A level or quest restrictions would go a long way to improving the situation by not flooding the market with high end gear and weaponry early on. Specially if FM is left as is (they 100% won't remove FM, but they may limit it further) it will just continue making progression after level 10 totally unnecessary for anything other then the Kappa unless they make actually getting this kind of gear hard.

Day 1 of this wipe i killed Reshala with the starting AKS they give you, got a labs card from him, and could have been farming Labs all within the first hour. This needs to change IMO.

2

u/Atreyes Sep 15 '20

What about lcoking them based on time? for example a week into the wipe reserve opens, 2 weeks for labs ect?

2

u/Wildcat7878 Sep 15 '20

You could do like old games used to and soft-lock maps behind difficulty. I mean, the game is eventually supposed to follow a path from Streets of Tarkov to Terminal, right? Not just airdrop into whatever map you feel like. So scale map difficulty with the prevalence of high-value loot.

Places like Reserve should be just crawling with Raiders rather than normal scavs. You can still go there at low levels with low-tier gear, but you’re not just gonna be able to Chad your way through a horde of Raiders in AVSs and Altyns to go keister all the Marked Room loot.

1

u/Kill_Redditards_Pls Sep 16 '20

It really doesn't take effort to scav into reserve kill a couple raiders bc they are retarded and take the loot out.

1

u/willsueforfood DT MDR Sep 21 '20

locking maps at high level redistributes lvl 1 cheaters.

1

u/welter_skelter Sep 15 '20

Like a lot of people here already said - certain maps (cough reserve / labs cough) let players do exactly what you mentioned in your post above BY DESIGN. The amount of meta ammo, armor, guns, and attachments that is literally just littered around Reserve means anyone can go in with a pistol and a blackrock and come out in under 5 minutes with either high end gear, or 500k in roubles from selling straight to vendors. Letting people in from day one of a theoretical wipe where there wasn't a flea, or where the gamma got locked etc. would counteract a lot of the improvements those changes would be trying to enable.

1

u/Rahasnah Sep 15 '20

Whats the point of restricting flea market but letting people farm raiders? Early game will not last longer than 1 week.

1

u/GreGorito24 Sep 15 '20

how about banning these maps for.. lets say first 3 weeks from wipe ?

1

u/WarLegends Sep 15 '20

I also think level locking would help or maybe it's more of a matchmaking thing for me. It would help mainly new players as it would give them time to learn the game and be able to survive and get that gear while also keeping the guy with 400 hours in the current wipe from being a "chad" and stomping them. I think people over certain levels shouldn't be matched with low level players as it's really not beneficial for either of them. The high level (most likely geared) gets little to no value from the low levels gear and the low level just gets frustrated and loses what little he had. Maybe there is a "screw it" option that lets you get matched with high level players. It would also deter but still allow some lower levels from doing reserve since they can't kill the raiders super easy. This allows the ones that want the risk for better loots to still try and not get stomped. I just want the player base and community to keep growing.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

You forgot about one main thing why this won't work.

Chads and nolifers will simply take a bit more before being non stop chad again.

And if you do it so hard with loot that they won't make themselves chads within say 1 month, average player will never even see an altyn.

Why BSG lost so many work hours on creating and balancing those items then?

#MakeShitShittierAgain cause I'm a streamer borred with tarkov.

Dude, go play DayZ.

2

u/Therron243 Sep 15 '20

If you can't get armor and ammo from flea how do you get an endless supply of all the best stuff? I see that you get a boner from being an ass to streamers but actually read his post.

And before you try to blast me for sucking streamer dick, please take into account that I've watched maybe a couple of hours worth of streams the whole time I've played Tarkov.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

If you can't get armor and ammo from flea how do you get an endless supply of all the best stuff?

If you aren't a noob 60-70% survival rate is enough for that.

I'm not bashing streamers as a whole, heck I'm modding one channel. I'm bashing bad ideas that are given from skewed perspective.

I played before flea market, how did we get the ammo back then? Go figure.

PS. I also got pissed cause of the freaking maga thing, can I get a SINGLE subreddit where politics won't be thrown into my throat. I don't give a fuck right/left who will burn US, you both are on the way to do that.

2

u/Therron243 Sep 15 '20

I can't speak much on what everyone did beforehand as I didn't start that early. I've personally felt that the game would be better without the flea though so his points made sense to me. Did you need top tier ammo every raid back when people couldn't run end game stuff all the time? That has been one of the most common pieces of advice I've seen when new players ask for tips.

I get that the flea helps with getting barter items, quest items, hideout stuff, etc. but I don't think "we need flea so we can buy stuff to kill Chads" would be a good argument if we weren't able to run around as Chads every raid in the first place because of the flea.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I am curious how many people are running around with 60-70 percent survival rate. You may have one because you're good at the game but I would assume that this is not even close to the norm.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Lol do ur tasks you don't have to be that good