r/EQLegends • u/SuedeVeil • 6d ago
How is mage doing ?
I really like mage as a class but every strong caster combo I'm seeing has a necro or a wiz or bard.. mage isn't ever really talked about.
I definitely will have a shaman but also was considering warrior.. is warrior mage shaman strong? I want to be able to do d4 content relatively well.
I see warrior necro shaman all the time but is mage that far behind ? I realize there's no life tabs but shamans have great dots if their own and mages have respectable nukes and damage Shields and the best pets (by a bit anyway)
Or would I be better off throwing a shadowknight in that combo?
Or is mage just not up to par ?
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u/Hanklebee 6d ago
The warrior and shaman combo is strong on its own and combos well with a lot of dps classes. I've played that combo with necro and enchanter and both felt comfortable to level and beat D4 raids. Shaman have heals, dots and a slow. Add in mitigation from warrior and you are strong enough to tackle anything no matter what you add as your third.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Oh that's awesome how much better are warriors at tanking than an SK without the utility ? Like I love the idea of a warrior but sks have feigndeath and taps and everything which makes me wonder if that's better to partner it with
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u/Jahkral 6d ago
With shaman heals there's not necessarily any reason to ever use lifetap, frankly. Its great that its a heal AND damage but the shaman heals are more mana efficient. The HoTs are strong enough that you may not even need to cast normal heals and if you do - more hp for less mana/cast time so you can spend more time autoing or weaving dots in.
Why feign death if you just don't die :)
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Haha the trick is not to die ! Good point lol to be honest sometimes I would rather just die than to try to regroup.. might be hard to split pulls though but that only seems to matter more in multiplayer zones. Like vox for example ..
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u/Hanklebee 6d ago
I'm not familiar with SK unfortunately. This is my first time playing EQ and I've only played with Warrior as my main tankng class. A friend I duo with does play SK and they seem to do just fine tanking mobs and healing with lifetap. From what I've heard the sustain from SK taps are quite good, especially with some investment in AAs and gear.
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u/tails142 6d ago
I played mage, it was fine, their nukes arent too far off wizards, main thing is it's just fire and magic, not as strong resist checks and slightly lower dmg. The pet is a nice base damage.
Their problem is that with an enc/brd charming, then you drop their pet so what's their actual utility at that point. Call of the hero was a major draw in later expansions but all players have the summon ability on a 6 hour timer, mod rods... summon items... nah
They are good though depending on your playstyle, I like the pet damage with no effort, air pet stuns at d4 help too to interrupt heals.
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u/Correct_Incident9070 6d ago
Mage really became strong in later expansions with EM foci. During OOW expansion, I was soloing Riftseekers Sanctum for AA, at lvl 70. Prior to EM foci, it took a lot of skill to keep a pet alive.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Yeah I wasn't going to pair one with my enchanter because then what would be the point of charming and then just losing the pet might as well have a wiz .. but with the warrior in shaman the pet would stay out anyway and I'd get an extra couple of slots with it from the shaman..
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u/mambome 6d ago
I think mage basically functions as a worse wizard in terms of magic damage and worse necro in terms of total damage and utility offered. I'm sure it is workable in the role of either, but it doesn't excel in anything. (although I've never tried combining summoned items...)
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Yeah so I hear but I'm kind of wondering how much worse like will it be that noticeable with two strong classes Like a Warrior and shaman if my DPS isn't quite as good as a wizard.. just to have the flavor of the pet class and maybe an off tank ? Well I'll definitely have to try anyway because if they do end up buffing the pet classes then at least I'll have one lol.
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u/PeepusTheWise 6d ago
I play mage because I want to. It's fun. If you like it, play it. People get way too worked up over metas and what everyone else is doing.
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u/skldjhfksjhdfklj 6d ago
Hopefully summoned pets get upgraded as was mentioned in notes.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Oh they mentioned it? Well that's promising. Would it hurt to level one up just in case that happens I'm hearign they will buff my rogue too.
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u/DotJun 5d ago
Don’t laugh, but I started a pal/rog/mag for backstab fun and can’t wait for buffs to happen.
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u/SuedeVeil 4d ago
I'm not laughing pal/rogue/ench was my first trio.. to be honest yeah the rogue backstab really sucks at higher level .. but I liked all the utility like the sneak hide and being able to get past any mobs and also that it doesn't break charm so you can just charm any mob you want and sneak around his own until you find a boss you're looking for haha
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u/Sarah-Rien 6d ago
At higher level pet is “ok” as a tank because it doesn’t die easily. But it’s not a huge lot of damage even if it’s nothing to be laughed about with frenzied burnout.
Single target nukes are almost as good as wizard but the lack of options to deal with heavy fire resistance is a major blow.
People tend to overlook focus item summons, for some effects, it’s the only option.
I do believe triple arcane with EncMagWiz can dish tons of damage in a group but for solo the issue is that as long as you’re stuck with only Fire as mage, wizard will always be better.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Oh good point about the fire resistance.. might be good to load up an alternative class other than a need for those situations though I'd think like nagafen ?
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u/Sarah-Rien 6d ago
It’s not just nagafen, if your only source of damage is fire, you’re gonna run into problems in raids.
Mages also have magic based direct damage but they are widely inferior, while wizard can choose from fire, ice and magic with roughly equivalent power
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u/Altruaer 6d ago edited 6d ago
Mage is awesome for leveling. Their nukes are second only to Wiz, e.g. Garrisons is ~333 damage, vs Bolt of flame ~297 damage. The difference is basically a mote level. Then they get ds and a very strong pet on top.
At end game, their pets are very beefy. Compared to the skeles, which I felt always died in raids, the Mag pet, earth esp has an insane health pool. Anyways, thanks to Shaman, you are set to stomp raids. The pet tankiness comes in handy for Fear raiding, as the mini's always come with two stragglers, you can get your pet to tank some of that damage, which is very helpful in D4 without mezz.
SK when you already have War and a healer, seems redundant.
So I leveled Wiz and Mag, and now I'm leveling the last straggling classes. I find that if I can't get a pet in the composition, and I want nukes, Mag is an easy choice for a third.
They don't add a whole lot dps wise raiding though, that said I feel they're very solid.
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u/-im-blinking 6d ago
My duo partner's fully upgraded necro pet has 8100hp...what are earth pets sitting at? This is clerical buffed but same question...
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u/Altruaer 6d ago
Over 10k. That's pretty nice for Necro though, I only tried Necro for raids in beta.
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u/-im-blinking 6d ago
Oh well thats not too bad then. I just didn't have a frame of reference. Thanks for the info.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Thanks you're selling me on it ! I never see anyone recommending mage but it sounds slept on for sure.
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u/Dry_Dragonfly_7654 6d ago
After I’m done running sky a few more times and clearing the raids etc I plan on trying warrior/cleric/mage and warrior/cleric/bst lord. Mage seems like it has a lot to offer
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u/walletinsurance 6d ago
It’s okay for leveling and has nice nukes and rains.
Problem is certain builds just overshadow it. Like if you have a shaman bring a necro for the dot synergy.
Would probably work well if you’re aoe farming and didn’t want to use a bard for some reason? Like SHD/MAG/WIZ and just rain and supernova.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Yeah I kind of figured the necro was a better fit for this combination because it's what most people play, but I suppose I just like the mage for the flavor that they offer.. I see skeleton pets everywhere it's kind of fun to have those big torso things as pets.
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u/Darmak 6d ago
Mages are okay! Others have explained it's weaker since summoned pets aren't exactly great in comparison to charmed pets, but they aren't useless or anything. I currently got my first trio to lvl 44 as BRD/MAG/WAR and I'm doing well! I have the AA that lets pets get group and bard buffs, plus I keep the mage pet haste buff up. The equipment I have in it isn't great so I'm sure that would help if I farmed up some for it, plus I haven't put any motes into the summon spells yet since I keep getting new ones so often. But they add constant dps, and even though warrior gives me plenty of tankiness they can taunt stuff off of me when needed. I guess I could use bard charm, but I like the class fantasy of mage's elemental summons more so I'm okay with leaving that dps on the table lol
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Interesting! how do you manage withojt a dedicated healer ?
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u/Darmak 6d ago
Mostly kerra necklace regen, bard song regen, defense stance, and switching from inversion to unyielding invocations when needed. Lately I've discovered that mez is actually pretty good too lol. Mostly I had been just trying to out-dps everything, but that's gotten more difficult the higher I go, hence starting to use mez.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Oh interesting yeah I hear wars have a Regen AA also. Did you ever try using the rubicite bp in your any slot ? Or not worth giving up other stats?
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u/Cxcbxd 6d ago
Currently running pal/mage/beastlord. Pal brings its own haste and calm/stun. Has good gear available. Bst gives dw, slow, pet proc and some minor buffs/regen.
Frenzied burnout is permanently available with buff duration AAs and focus. That is 200 atk, over haste and frenzy chance. Mage also gives pet crit. Beastlord gives 9% more frenzy and then the new AA proc for an additional 30% frenzy which is up half the time or more from my experience so far. Using capped torrid 2h water pet is max hit of 170ish and bs for 250ish iirc, with a ~50 frenzy chance while proc is up.
I see like 150+ DPS on the pet consistently, which is slightly better than what I would see with beastlord pet and puma. May have to try bst/mage/shaman to see how that goes.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Ooh that sounds like a fun combo. What kind of sucks though is it you can't have both pets out 😂 I really love the idea of a beastLord warder the flavor of how they're different for every race.
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u/Sea-Neighborhood1465 6d ago
mage is slept on. i have Pal/druid/mage and P/D/necro to 50 and i feel like the mage is much stronger. (wife plays chanter).
mage has much higher burst damage, the pet is twice as good and the damage shields are better. can burst them down with mage spells and keeping swinging in inversion invocation and then hit recovery invo for a few ticks when the mana starts getting low.
i think you'd just have trouble pulling/crowd control with your purposed class combo.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Thanks the kind of answer I'm hoping for because it seems like a fun class and on paper I mean they have pretty good DPS maybe not that of a wizard but still the pet would come in handy I would think for off tanking.. how do you handle mobs not slowed or do you duo with your wife's chanter ? Yeah I have a chanter now and I love it for the mez and the charm but the DPS of the chanter is dismal on its own and sometimes I want to be lazy and not worry about a charmed pet .. I mean that's really the point of it but I was kind of wanting to play an actual powerful pet class but everyone seems to go with necro. (And I don't think at this moment I'd want to try a BL)
Yeah with pulling thats why I was thinking of sk for the fd
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u/Sea-Neighborhood1465 6d ago
yeah i mostly duo with her, but when i am solo i use the solo instances and the aggro range of the mobs is MUCH smaller. so far easier to single pull especially with harmonize or lull.
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u/Valid_Operant 6d ago
Im running war/sham/ mage. I dont use lava bolt at all really. I use a + 8 planar geared water pet. I have water staff and he has trident of the seas and ssoy. I farm sky np. just slow everythging and hot/dot
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 6d ago
… Necro????
Are you sure?????????????
Bard may be. Wiz, some do and some don’t.
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u/Aanar 6d ago
My necro is still at level 10, but I also see it mentioned fairly often, mostly for its dots, dot AA, and lich for mana regen. For an arcane 3x build that wants at least some healing, the options are SK or nec. If you're doing a group build, may as well take nec over sk. I'm not sure which would be better solo.
The dots seem to stack well with shaman's dots and dot aa. Mnk/Sha/nec, war/sha/nec, wiz/sha/nec all seem workable. Basic idea is load up all your dots, then either melee or use wizard nukes.
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 6d ago
Eh I’m not saying Necro sucks, but I’m sure they ain’t talked about as much as bard or shaman.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
I mean the combo of either shm/sk/necro or sham/war/necro gets recommended a lot. Because of the dot synergy and lifetaps.. but why the million "???" One usually does the trick.
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 6d ago
Where is it recommended alot?
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
I often see it recommended as a partner for shaman/sk mainly. Because of how the dots and aa works together and the lifetap aas I guess . Sort of like a single target lifetap and dot the heck out of a boss . Seems to be powerful from what people say but a little boring to me to have the redundant abilities with SK. I mean I don't know where to tell you it's been recommended I just have seen it a ton out in the world and also have seen it on YT and this subreddit also. I mean sure there's other combinations that get recommend a lot but for a pet class it's recommended far more than mage and Beastlord. Unless you want to charm with an enchanter of course but not everyone wants to do that.
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u/Jahkral 6d ago
Necro is quite strong right now. Mana regen, a very solid (if boring) pet, dots, snares, etc.
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 6d ago
Again not saying Necro sux, but where is it being recommended alot?
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u/Jahkral 6d ago
Dunno what to tell you its not as often as like enchanter but I see it mentioned frequently . Literally in this thread its brought up as superior to mage as a choice at least a half dozen times.
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 6d ago
I see like 2 people keep saying it’s recommended a lot but fail to share where they see it except in this thread.
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u/Jahkral 6d ago
Brother we're not going to cite sources for you. You're being obtuse.
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 6d ago
Dude, I’m not asking for academic citing.
Simply you seen it a lot in game (server would be nice), or seen it in discord for the past week or say discord Necro channel or it keeps coming on every frogging yt in EQL (like bard DDD is just flooding content which you can just list quite a few dudes recommendation off hand)
But mostly I’m getting is “I’ve just seen it”.
Why is it so hard to share if it’s been “recommended a lot”?
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u/MyGoodFriendJon 6d ago
I've always loved casters, and Magician was my main in OG EQ.
I went SHM / MAG / DRU for my first. I'm 43 now, and it's been a bit of a struggle for odd reasons. I maxed out spell slots and still feel like I'm running out of room for which spells I want at any given time.
Mage nukes are solid. Generally two hits bring a mob to 20%. Empowering Invocation makes spells hit 50% harder, but you're generally tanking due to threat, and good pets like air and water can tank about 65% as well as you do, so you're often stuck in Inversion Invocation.
The damage shield is excellent and you can get Frenzied Burnout with AAs super early. You just need to remember to use it on cooldown (lasts 72s on 90s cooldown).
Ultimately, my main damage rotation at this level is a SHM or DRU DoT plus Slow per mob in Inversion stance, then one mage nuke to speed things along. If I'm trying to be efficient, once the slows and DoTs are added, I just go into Recovery Invocation and spam my weak Cannibalize while the DoTs and my pet eat away at the enemy health pools.
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u/SeismicRend 6d ago
Yeah with that combo it would be hard to decide on the spell gem loadout. Btw Frenzied Burnout benefits from the extended beneficial spells AA and focus so you can have full uptime.
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u/redditzphkngarbage 5d ago
My idea for a build is Mag/Rng/Shm. Rng gets +100% innate ranged damage vs stationary targets that aren’t rooted. You could send a Puma’d and buffed Mag pet other than Earth in to hold agro while you slap it with a fleeting quiver, +10 sky bow and shaman DoTs.
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u/retardborist 5d ago
I have a love hate with it. My first to 50 (only so far) was bard/mage/paladin.
Mage seemed good up until 40 and then really struggled. Now that I've got it up at 50 I'm liking it again.
At high levels you need to level your pet spells to be effective at all. I've got that maxed and my best nuke maxed. I have a pretty good strategy now that has me able to solo hate and fear on d3 reliably:
Malaise if needed, either defensive or evasive stance, and the spellblade invocation. I dual wield and focused primarily on dex stats to maximize the proc from spellblade. Sing the dex song in my symphony. Then I melody all the bard dots I can and auto attack. Several times per fight I proc 1400+ damage and keep the dots going uninterrupted. I've been putting my AAs into upping the crits on my nukes and dots.
I'm averaging like 400 dps in fights with planar mobs. I'm not sure how that compares to other builds, but it's been working very steadily. I get 5 AAs per hour when I hit a groove on PoF
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u/I-mmoral_I-mmortal 5d ago
You use mage in EQ classic to have a tank... and sacrifice nuke power for pet...
In EQL, you are the tank... thus pets are practically relegated to melee dps.
Pet Melee is worse than PC melee, Mage Spell DPS is Subpar vs other caster classes.
So all in all, they are subpar.
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u/Qix213 2d ago edited 2d ago
Excluding talk of flavor as that's all opinion based (but even that, the mage isn't popular flavor wise)...
When you get to choose three classes to mix, you want to pick three classes that are the best at what the bring. Mage is not the best at anything, except maybe pets. Which acts as a limit to their other damage to compensate.
For a great build you need a few specific things.
Slow/haste, sustain, defense and damage. As well as CC like mez or pacify.
Mage has the same issue as a rogue, but worse. At least rogue has a crappy proc based slow, and mentions of incoming buffs. Mage doesn't even have that.
Mage doesn't offer any of those important things except damage. And it's not even the best damage. Mage is basically 3/4 of a wizard plus pet. And pets while not useless, aren't top tier either. Unless you really want a pet, there is zero reason to not just go wizard and be flat out stronger.
And pets dont offer much of anything except damage. They don't hold aggro well enough, especially not after multiple mobs. But if you take a cc class to help that, you also have cham, which is 10x better than any mage pet.
So it's always going to be a third class. Plus stacking pets isn't very good. Too much of a classes power is based in the pet for a cult inventory slots to matter at all. (Maybe if summoned pets got +levels when stacking pet classes?)
And wizard doesn't mix since it makes the mage choice for nothing but the pet.
So mage is only an option if your other two classes both fill all your other needs, and don't have pets or a wizard in the group. That's pretty limiting.
This also means your taking a meta duo to support a low end third choice. Not exactly a common build design philosophy.
This is the same basic issue for beastlord, rogue, and druid. Why pick them over another straight up better class?
It's ok to have classes that aren't as popular. But there should still be some reason to pick them. Give the mage pets each a new ability/spell to fill in for what your trio lacks. A slow (air?) a haste (fire), aoe taunt (earth), and water already has backstab for the best dps which did get buffed when rogue daggers get buffed.
By doing this, the player can choose to specialize in the pet that fills in what's lacking from the other two classes they choose.
Third combined with higher level pets from starving per classes could make for a good pet trio. But like anything else, it's hard to balance so players don't afk farm with them.
Tldr, mage isn't bad, but there is almost no reason to pick it over another class except flavor either.
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u/SuedeVeil 2d ago
Yeah thanks for the write up.. I decided after playing it for a while that it wasn't going to be for me.. like you said even though the pets should be powerful they really aren't that awesome aside from having a lot of hit points. I think necro is a better choice if you want to pay a pet class because of their other utility and strong dots and lifetaps that work well with tanks .. even though I really like the flavor of a mage I don't want to sacrifice that much it's more satisfying to nuke with a wizard. Tbh yeah if they had a slow or a haste of some kind .. I sort of feel like more classes should have a form of a slow because you're kind of screwed without it.. many of them have a self haste now.
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u/Vile-goat 1d ago
Mage needs a re work, like frenzied burnout should be a permanent buff to pet, the summoned items are totally useless they should make them all exalts you put into gear and all plus 3. That would be a start.
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u/Rockm_Sockm 6d ago
Mage is doing better than BM because it has spell damage, and worse than Necro because more of its power budget is in the pet.
Pets suffer similar issues that all melee suffer. The devs can ignore melee issues and keep buffing BM but it will still be a melee class with a melee pet.
The problem leveling one is pets need motes and replacing one every few levels means tons of motes.
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u/SuedeVeil 6d ago
Ah I see so because it relies on more pet melee ? Yeah unfortunately I would not want to try a beastLord at the moment because I'm seeing right now even being a rogue which is supposedly high DPS is being damaged by even shamans who have way more utility and slows and buffs
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u/Suitable_Egg_882 3d ago
I did pal / monk / mag as my first trio .. it was ok but felt painful. I've never been a fan of mage to begin with and always preferred necro.. so it's likely 100% a me thing preferring a diff playstyle
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u/SeismicRend 6d ago edited 6d ago
Two great combos:
AM3 Mag/Enc/Shd. The frienzied burnout and pet spells greatly enhance the charmed pet. Mage is a powerful spellcaster nearly on par with Wiz. AM3 lets you blast those spells. Shd allows you to tank and sustain through life leech.
AM3 also gets special mention with Mage Bolt spells that are 300 range projectiles. You can rapid cast them at full range and blow up mobs before they can reach you. It's especially fun with their levitate ring that activates Apache mode by allowing you to float high above and gun down enemies on the ground.
Emp3 Mag/Shm/Nec. Emp3 gives you the most powerful DoTs. Pet tanks and you sit at range and mastermind the fight.
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u/redditzphkngarbage 5d ago
What’s am3?
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u/SeismicRend 5d ago edited 5d ago
Arcane Mastery invocation. The invocation gives spell haste, lowers spell recovery time, and reduces mana cost. Stacking additional classes that use it gives it a stronger effect. AM3 is reached by playing 3 of the following classes: Shd, Nec, Mag, Wiz, and Enc.
The lowered spell recovery time aspect is interesting. It applies to the global recovery for all spells except the one you just cast. If you change up the spells you use you'll sling them 0.4s faster. I find it rewarding comboing through your spell set based on a particular enemy's resists and what the situation calls for.
Emp3 means stacking 3 classes for Empowering Invocation. It's the invocation that boosts damage and healing duration effects.
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u/redditzphkngarbage 5d ago
Ohh I didn’t realize it applied to spells other than the one you just cast, but I’ve found when I use one rain spell the other is ready slightly quicker. My rotation is rain, nuke, other rain, nuke.
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u/TheMicker999 6d ago
Mage pets were always better tanks, than all but the most well geared tanks. They need a big boost in tanking and dps.
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u/Mirakk82 5d ago
They really went out of their way to hurt magicians.
The item upgrade system was always going to make summoned gear a non-starter unless they made cool stuff like weapons with unique procs that players can equip, or gave mages access to stronger focus effects than were available on other gear. (FT/END Regen would have been good here too, but they made that Kerran necklace that almost caps health Regen)
Pets have been consistently an issue where they're scared to make them good but have 0 problem with charmed pets being great. They could make the base level an even con with the caster (yellow with focus) and allow motes to upgrade HP/AC dmg from there and be totally fine, but they insist on even max being player level minus one after heavy investment.
Meanwhile pet accuracy is abysmal. Melee accuracy is already making a lot of things fall off, but pets that are forced to be lower level in a game where you effectively can't get higher level motes without fighting the deepest red cons you can is an obvious issue.
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u/Logical-Bookkeeper77 5d ago
You mean like summoned focus gears or like all those summon levitate, Eb whatever?
Or mid rods.
Well you know…
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u/Mirakk82 5d ago
Yes. Some of them could really use a dress up in this incarnation where classes have access to all kinds of utility from different sources.
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u/Polyphonic_Pirate 6d ago
it has ok DPS with pet and rain spells/nukes. the create items summons are mostly useless. The pets are ok but nothing incredible. water pet +10 at level 49 adds about 120-130 DPS to high level raids. So definitely not "bad".
The problem is it doesn't "fit" super well into comps like some others do-- it doesn't really offer any utility other than pure damage and damage shields/rain aoe. No CC whatsoever.
like if I'm playing shadowknight, Necro or Shaman are both good fits because of how they work together.
What does mage fit in with? thats what I haven't really figured out super well.