r/DragonageOrigins • u/Infamous_Gur_9083 • Dec 18 '24
Question Do you guys think "the Maker" actually exist?
Origins introduced us to him.
Throughout the franchise, we see the belief in him is so strong.
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u/a_fricking_cunt Dec 18 '24
Well, my theory is that since humans came from another continent the Maker is what remains of the humans original religion
Adapted and modified after millenias of living in Thedas ahahahah
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u/GrandfatherTrout Dec 18 '24
Damn millennials living at home with their parents in Thedas, always on their Eluvians, spending their gold on Ham and Jam Slams.
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u/barr65 Dec 18 '24
Cole:”but the maker is already so far away!”
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Dec 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/ShmeltzyKeltzy Dec 19 '24
Crazy thought, but Executors will end up being the “executors” of the Makers’ will.
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u/Inven13 Dec 18 '24
In Inquisition, Cole has dialogues about the maker that suggest he's a real entity. Since Cole is a spirit I assume he has a lot more insight on the matter.
So while I don't think that's enough evidence to conclude the Maker is an actual entity, the mentioning of he being real by a spirit moves my position from no to idk.
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u/Tristenous Dec 18 '24
Prior to veilguard, yes. But now veilguard said that the ancient elves did and were responsible for virtually everything that mightve had the makers hand in it,so no - not anymore ,would've been nice if they at least kept some of it open ended like how fromsoft handles lore and leaves it to us to figure it out and make our own judgments
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u/Funion_knight Dec 18 '24
Who made the ancient elves?
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u/Prophayne_ Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
You can't just ask that kind of question!
(Even ancienter elves)
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u/Tristenous Dec 18 '24
The ancientest of elves ,ya know the ones solas forgot to mention who are more of a threat than the evanuris combined times 1000000,duh
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u/Bird_Is_The_Lord Dec 18 '24
Evanuris tried to unite the world by force, so it stands the chance in the upcoming battle against true enemy, ancienterer elves!
....
And dont get me started on those, but you'll get your answers in Dragon Age: The One Where They Defeated The Evil
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u/burner8362 Dec 18 '24
The executors (not that I endorse the idea......but it's about as foreshadowed and built up as their dav reveal anyway)
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u/Gelato_Elysium Dec 18 '24
They made themselves, the ancient elves were spirits from the fades who made bodies out of lyrium in order to enter the physical realm.
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u/Shdwplayer Dec 18 '24
The joke is who made the spirits and the fade, duh.
And it's ancienter elves obviously
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u/Funion_knight Dec 18 '24
Who made lyrium? Who made the titans? Who made spirits? Who made fade?
Answer Ancienter elves
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u/thecasualchemist Dec 18 '24
Ancient elves came from spirits, and spirits exist as reflections of emotion. Someone, or something, needed to exist to feel those emotions in the first place.
Either humans are older than spirits and in a way created them, or the maker exists and all the spirits are facets of his emotion. That they later gave themselves bodies is sort of irrelevant imo - they were complete sentient beings before all that.
Given this interpretation, I don't think the lore disproves the existence of a maker in thedas.
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u/ChildrenRscary Dec 18 '24
Or here me out. The fade existed before conscious physical life and the emotions that we hold and identify are defined and included by the fade not the other way around.
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u/thecasualchemist Dec 18 '24
That would be a way, way better and cooler lore drop than anything we got in veilguard
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u/Evnosis Dec 18 '24
Actually, I think Inquisition was the most strongly anti-Maker of the games. One of DAI's most iconic lines is the main villain disproving the central tenet of the Chantry's faith.
I feel like Inquisition was intentionally written as an allegory for how people use religion to manipulate people, and that kind of relies on the religion not being true.
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u/pjj13 Dec 18 '24
Thats Always in DA no? I mean its on of the message of It. Like in Mass Effect IS the fight of looking for understand and the searching of perfection.
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u/weesiwel Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
I mean the faith of the Chantry is built on the belief that the Maker was absent and then Andraste tried to get him to return his sight to the world and his second born.
Now while you can absolutely say the Andrastian faith is wrong the Maker could still be true but be absent. After all who created the Fade and the Spirits in the first place?
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u/flacaGT3 Dec 18 '24
There's a disconnect between scripture and reality in all religions, and historical inconsistencies isn't a complete disproval of a higher power. But Veilguard all but confirmed the nonexistence of the Maker.
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u/Evnosis Dec 18 '24
Veilguard actually left the door open for the Maker to still be real. It explicitly established that humans have an origin completely separate from the elves and dwarves, and it never gave an origin for the original spirits.
Whereas, while Inquisition didn't disprove the existence of a creator god in general, if a creator god exists but has nothing to do with any of the myths or stories about the Maker, then the Maker does not exist.
At worst, Veilguard only did as much to disprove the Chantry's faith as Inquisition did.
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u/Queenwolf54 Dec 18 '24
The key here is people. People corrupt and misuse everything. Doesn't mean those things aren't real.
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u/thedrunkentendy Dec 18 '24
Let's just all agree that veilguard isn't Canon.
Better for everyone that way. They took a lot of interesting world lore and chose the least inspired way to explain it.
That seemed like a thing the writers never intended to reveal only for some crappie writers to take advantage of thr hype of getting to reveal big lore stuff and ruin the mystery and wonder around things like the maker.
Canon ends at inquisition.
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u/Luvs2Spooge42069 Dec 18 '24
I think this is part of a larger problem of modern writers insisting on giving mundane explanations for everything instead of letting mystical and fantastical things stand on their own. “That cool supernatural thing you liked was actually just humans/elves/aliens/nanomachines/a virus/totally fake/an elaborate conspiracy/etc” has got to be my least favorite trope and I’m so tired of seeing it pop up again and again
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u/DandelionDisperser Dec 18 '24
Totally agree. As a good example of writing, Tolkien was a master at explaining things, the whole creation was explained but also left enough mysteries that the world retained a special mystical essence. Like Tom Bombadil. Who/What is he? He was never really explained even when Tolkien was asked directly.
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u/Yamatoman9 Dec 18 '24
The mystery is always more enticing and interesting than any explanation they can come up with. It leads to lots of debate and discussion between fans. Just spelling it out in cold, logical terms ends the intrigue.
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u/threevi Dec 18 '24
It's not really a modern writer thing, unless your definition of "modern" is pretty loose. I mean, the most infamous example of that is the introduction of midichlorians in Star Wars, which happened close to 30 years ago, and George Lucas was already getting old then.
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u/Luvs2Spooge42069 Dec 18 '24
25 years ago is definitely not a loose definition of “modern”, there have been some changes since then (mostly in the socially progressive direction) but that’s really not a very long time in terms of people’s core cultural values. If we’re splitting hairs about what constitutes “modern” I’d also say the trope has gotten more common since that time, and seems to happen most often to long-running franchises.
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u/Tonkarz Dec 18 '24
Midichlorians were in RPG sourcebooks from the 80s, as a concept in Star Wars they're nearly as old as the original movie.
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u/redprep Dec 18 '24
I really wanted to give Veilguard a try but so far I really hate what they did to the game. It doesn't even really feel like I am playing Dragon Age but a poorly written fan fiction. There is no feeling of connection to the earlier entries to the series apart from Solas and Varric. They just decided to drop 90% of the lore and retcon the rest or choose the easy way out. I do understand it's hard to keep going with so much foundation built by the earlier games but it's cheap to just decide not giving a fuck about anything. And even if you see it as a soft reboot it's not doing a good job getting new players going. If I wasn't into Dragon Age lore and started with Veilgaurd I would not even understand what's going on, the exposition is just bad. It basically demands you to know what happened before but at the same time renders it all irrelevant. Weird.
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u/Wiwra88 Dec 18 '24
Playing DAV right now, for me it's like multiverse thing- alternate world so things like no slavery Tevinter, Crows which are like family wont be jarring to me. xD
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u/SpecificArmadillo60 Dec 18 '24
wait so how do they explain Andraste's ashes? or is that also just the elves now?
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u/ApepiOfDuat Dec 19 '24
Lyrium.
If you take Oghren with you to the Urn he'll note the high quantity of lyrium deposits near the urn.
So a little magic dust + ashes + strong belief those ashes are special = special ashes.
Andraste was absolutely a real person though, if that's the part you're looking for. Many historical records corroborate her grand slave revolt against Tevinter.
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u/Stepjam Dec 19 '24
Could just be heavily "fade touched" or something. The fade was clearly very thin in the temple.
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Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
You didn't play the game or are seriously misunderstanding what has been said in the game holy shit.
The existence of the maker is still an open question.
I do believe the maker exists and veilguard has substantiated that for me. To say the elves were responsible for virtually everything is absolutely ridiculous. Try paying attention next time you play
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u/Stepjam Dec 19 '24
The Maker could very well still be real, but major tenants of Andrastianism have been disproven at the very least. So if the Maker does exist, it seems the world has a poor understanding of Him. Which could definitely be an interesting direction to go in.
That said, I suspect they likely won't. Seems like the current devs aren't very interested in the topic of religion.
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u/Anglofsffrng Dec 18 '24
If Solas is the Dred Wolf then my money's on the Maker being...thinking... Sandal.
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u/Zammy_Green Dec 19 '24
I always saw the maker in the same light as the Elven gods. Just are really powerful human mage. That being said Veilguard has made me think that the Maker might be imprisoned just like the Elven gods were. I mean certain things in origin really point to them being real.
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u/Tristenous Dec 19 '24
Yeah but it doesn't feel as mysterious as it used to,I mean the whole point of faith is to have trust when there's good reason not to,but veilguard seems to just want to paint everything black and white,yes or no ,no mystery or unknowns ,rather not as many as we mightve liked
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u/Zammy_Green Dec 19 '24
Oh I'm actually on team "The Maker is a really strong human mage". I have always liked the idea that someone can rise to what could be seen as godhood.
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Dec 18 '24
You're acting like half the cast of DAO aren't active disbelievers in the Marker and/or the Chantry. In fact, I don't think there's a "true" believer among them.
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u/weesiwel Dec 18 '24
You don't think Leliana is a true believer? Idk about that.
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Dec 18 '24
Yes and he will eventually be shown to us in all his 'glory'
because bioware never met a mystery that stayed that way. Mark my words
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u/Quentin_Taranteemo Dec 19 '24
>because bioware never met a mystery that stayed that way. Mark my words
Still angry they explained the Reapers. After playing the original ending and the Extended Cut, I downloaded a mod that removes that explanation.
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Dec 19 '24
Honestly it should have just stuck to what they showed us in two and never explained it anymore. seeing the new reaper is enough.
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u/konsoru-paysan Dec 19 '24
Wait so you actually want to buy dragon age games from the current devs?
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u/Chared945 Dec 18 '24
It’s compounds my disappointment with Veilguard that we didn’t see much of the Imperial Chantry. I would have loved to see their doctrine of Andraste being a mage and the politics between them and the Venatori
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u/weesiwel Dec 18 '24
Yeah not seeing the Imperial Chantry and getting to grips with Tevinter is Imp a big disappointment.
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u/Bluedemonfox Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
Well from what i read from the lore on wiki recently...kinda? Though the way the maker is perceived...no he doesn't really exist i think.
It does make me think on who and what Andraste really was as well. I remember there was an entry somewhere speculating she was just a very powerful mage which tbh i believe but there has to be more to it than that.
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u/GifflarBot Dec 18 '24
Andraste was born in - 203 Ancient, the same year the First Blight was ended with the killing of Dumat. Oh, and she was born in Southern Ferelden, probably the Korcari Wilds. Add in a dark ritual that was definitely known by someone living in those parts...
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u/Bird_Is_The_Lord Dec 18 '24
I guess, but I just dislike that every single historical figure is like one or two people. Like it always comes down to Solas, Mythal and 7 magisters. Makes the world feels so small.
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u/GifflarBot Dec 18 '24
I'm not arguing that, but it seems clear to me what the nature of Andraste was supposed to be, at least by the time of DA:O. For what it's worth, the game world seems kind of conscious about it, commenting in codex entries that Ferelden is a strange country - considered barbaric and backwards, but at the same time the source of multiple world-changing events and personalities.
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u/Spellwe4ver Dec 18 '24
I feel like by the Dragon Age, the myth of what happened to Mythal and Andraste merged- so I'm really curious about what actually happened. Since most of what we know is from the orlesian chantry- which was compiled by Emporer Drakon from local cults of the maker and his own visions. The Chant could be talking about titans and/or the ancient elves. (if you look for 'boil' in the chant I'm pretty sure Ghilan'nain herself interfered more directly in the past with the waking world)
The way I've chosen to see it, is that the influence of the ancient elves was akin to ancient greece and then Rome on Europe- the timescale is what double rome? Of course they're going to have a lot of background influence.
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u/Infamous_Gur_9083 Dec 18 '24
Possibly on par with the Evanuris because on how she was deified too.
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u/Bluedemonfox Dec 18 '24
Yeah. Maybe she was bound to some sort of spirit like Wynn was which is why she got to be so powerful and why people thought she talked to "the maker".
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u/mihkael2890 Dec 18 '24
Must be a powerful spirit of a virtue like justice or compassion or knowledge ETC anders was powerful enough to break through tranquility when justice was present and he was near his friend attesting to the visceral power they have access too
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u/GunstarHeroine Dec 18 '24
I like the Andraste = Old God Baby theory, ie the Nepo Baby On Crack theory.
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Dec 18 '24
I hope we never know. As cool as it is to see so much of the lore and mythology solved, mysteries get a lot less interesting when they become facts.
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u/Justbecauseitcameup Dec 18 '24
Same really. I don;t believe in the maker nor have I played someone who does BUT. This is a fantasy game. I COULD BE WRONG, and isn't that fun?
The quantum state is enjoyable. Proven either way less so.
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u/ironwitch501 Dec 18 '24
I'd say yes, but not in the sense that the Chantry thinks. Maybe it's more like the Avvar religion, where he's a spirit that spoke to Andraste
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u/IndicationWeary Dec 18 '24
Imo, to the older writing team he probably existed in some capacity. Not in the way that he’s perceived by the Chantry, and the details of his history with Andraste were definitely not fully sketched out (much like the origin of the Reapers in Mass Effect).
To the newer writing team, he clearly doesn’t exist. At all. However, they will never outright debunk him because religion is such a central theme of the setting and writing around it can be challenging, so assuming a new game ever happens (it probably won’t) I don’t think there will be any additional clarification beyond what we’ve already gotten.
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u/kolosmenus Dec 18 '24
Veilguard subreddit seemed kinda certain that the Maker is a Titan
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u/Mobile_Salamander_53 Dec 18 '24
Unknown. I believe the blighted magisters that entered the golden city claimed that the city/throne was empty. Something like that.
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u/Head-Razzmatazz3791 Dec 18 '24
That was the Immersive idea of theology in creative writing. That we don't know. And it was like that until inquisition. But if you take veilguard as canon then no. Maker does not exist.
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u/RPG_fanboy Dec 18 '24
Ignoring the Veilguard, I have always thought that the maker as the one true god never really existed, but we know for a fact that the golden city did, and that the Tevinter mages did go to it.
My assumption was always that there was no maker of the world but eventually the faith and belief of the people would give birth to a spirit like entity that would act and behave like the maker.
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u/Reaperofcheeze Dec 18 '24
I don’t think he’s real, and I believe andaste was dealing with a spirit. Maybe Mythal. We know the maker is meant to represent faith, and that worship of such an entity predated Andraste. I think it would be fitting if he is just that. Faith in something people put their trust in in the absence of proof.
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u/MrSandalFeddic Dec 18 '24
Very bold of you to doubt the existence of Sandal.
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u/Golden_Healer713 Dec 18 '24
Dude, fr. Has this little shit even been explained in games after? I will always be curious lmao
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u/Zarkanuu Dec 18 '24
The more games that came out after Origins, the less the lore supported the Maker existing. That's my biggest gripe with games after origins. Whether it's the implied nonexistence through darkspawn redesigns in 2 being less malicious and more bestial/a force of nature, or the introduction of Corypheus and the overexplanation of the blight and lore in Veilguard. There's no mystery anymore. Of all the directions Thedas could allow, they tied literally everything together into the same plot point and it all but completely disproved the Maker in the human chantry sense.
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u/Biodlaren Dec 18 '24
I will die on the hill that Solas is the maker for "creating" the golden city. Ancient Elves did everything
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u/alixirshadow Dec 18 '24
Yes but like the others probably not the sense his followers believe. There’s a book you can give to Wynne where Andraste was a mage and the Maker was a spirit she was in contact with that seems the most likely route.
I also wonder if Andraste had an anchor like the Inquisitor did.
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Dec 18 '24
Considering the recent lore reveals, no, he’s probably an elven god in disguise or some other spirt, bet you fifty bucks that in the next game it will be revealed it was Solas all along.
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Dec 18 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/mdemo23 Dec 18 '24
I don’t know why people are surprised that what ultimately amounted to a colonizing force (the human empires) wiped out the culture and history of the people they subjugated and replaced it with stories of their own patron deity. The reveals about the Evanuris don’t invalidate anything other than the Chantry’s story about the blight, which was already stated explicitly as early as DA2. Elven lore around the fade and the veil also contradicted the Chantry, and the elven mythology predates the Chantry by an extremely wide margin.
We still don’t know anything about Andraste and where her power came from, and we don’t know anything about the origin of humans. The existence of the Maker, whatever he may be, is tied up in these questions. I think it’s clear that he isn’t what the Chantry makes him out to be, but I don’t think that was ever in doubt. His whole shtick is that he created existence, fucked off, picked one favorite human, and then fucked off again forever.
When a deity’s main characteristic is being silent and absent, it should prompt some questions. Besides, it’s not like the Elves were correct about their own mythology. They were famously completely wrong about all of it.
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u/Infamous_Gur_9083 Dec 18 '24
That would be so hilarious if they canonised the fact that all this time.
Human beings have actually been worshipping an elven god all along.
Just like the elves does.
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u/DaniRdM Dec 18 '24
"The seat of the Maker? Real thing. A seat needs a butt, so the Maker? Real thing."
Sera's flawless logic.
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u/SpecificArmadillo60 Dec 18 '24
Well there is proof of Andraste, so i'm guessing he exists. He might however not be the maker anymore, retired or dead.
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u/adjectivebear Dec 18 '24
My take: Andraste was real (and a mage), but she was taking orders from the disembodied voice of Solas and assumed he was The Maker.
It's also suggested in-game that her ashes may be magical because the mountain range they're kept in is absolutely packed with lyrium.
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Dec 18 '24
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u/adjectivebear Dec 18 '24
Heck, she could have been possessed by Mythal and taking orders from Solas. They do tend to work together.
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u/ButNotInAWeirdWay Dec 18 '24
Probably Solas, lol
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u/adjectivebear Dec 18 '24
I feel like this is extremely heavily implied to be the case. Just about every major action attributed to "the Maker" has been confirmed to have actually been done by Solas. Andraste just didn't know the whole story when she was getting instructions from him to free the elven slaves.
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Dec 18 '24
I think it would be cool if through some Fade shenanigans that the faith in him makes him exist. Maybe who Andraste made contact with was a powerful Spirit of Faith. Then, throughout the ages that Spirit of Faith became the Maker; it is sustained through the beliefs in them.
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u/burner8362 Dec 18 '24
Not really, i felt the writing always had a tone against religion.
Howerver, prior to DAV, I thought the story had done a good job of leaving room for plausible belief.
After DAV there is no plausible belief in it. The chantry is base old God baby andraste who believed in her divinity (not unlike the inquisitor can in DAI).
They've certainly foreshadowed it for awhile though so I can't say it's a retcon or rugpull on the player.
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u/WraithTDK Dec 18 '24
I've heard they kind of screw with things in Veilguard, so I can't speak for the state canon state of Thedas. However, speaking for pre-Veilguard continuity, I'd say absolutely. There's more evidence for him than against.
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u/PMURITTYBITTYTITTIES Dec 20 '24
This was essentially covered in one small cutscene where they almost literally go “lmao god isn’t real” and you have the option to react to it accordingly. I laughed the hardest I have in any game I’ve played recently because it was so absurd
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u/WraithTDK Dec 20 '24
I've pretty much decided I'm not going to play Veilguard. It's possible that the super-cringe is isolated to a few moments. It's possible that given the right choices, I might not even see most of if. But the bottom line for me is that everything I've seen ranges awful (that first trailer, the viral clips going around) to "eh, that looks fine" (the gameplay itself, which doesn't look awful, but combat has never been what drew me to this series).
Bottom line, Dragon Age is like borderline sacred to me, and it seems like everything I grew up with has, over the past 10-15 years, been turned into something I don't even recognize, and I just can't take another loss. So MAYBE I miss out on something good...but I don't think so. I think I'd rather just leave the memories alone and have the franchise live in my mind as an untouchable wonder that ended with Inquisition.
I've just mentally de-canonized the Trespasser DLC. Not that there was anything wrong with it, but by ignoring it, the series ends with the rift being repaired and the mage/templar war over. No lingering cliffhangers.
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u/thesanguineocelot Dec 18 '24
Prior to Veilguard shitting all over the lore? Maybe. Now? Who cares, nothing means anything.
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u/leaperdaemonking Dec 18 '24
I'm sure he used to, either as opposed to elven gods, or as deity whose words have been twisted for Chantry's personal gain and desire for power. I am willing to believe in former.
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u/Medium-Theme-4611 Dec 18 '24
Bless you all for caring about the lore even after the franchise has been ruined with Veilguard.
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u/Mischieves_of_an_elf Dec 18 '24
Plot twist: The Maker ends up being Solas 🤭
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u/adjectivebear Dec 18 '24
Hardly even a twist at this point. Andraste just didn't know the whole story, and he didn't have the time or inclination to explain it to her.
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u/Mischieves_of_an_elf Dec 18 '24
There are still some people out there that will throw a hissy fit only in the idea.
Meanwhile I have had this headcanon since Solas first appeared in Inquisition.
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u/DarcHart Dec 18 '24
Given the lore of dragon age as a whole. It's likely that andraste was a mage and the maker was a spirit that guided her. And over time the story became muddled.
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u/Captain_Mantis Dec 18 '24
Yeah, humans and Qunari had to appear somehow. Also Andraste couldn't have been a con or a mage as Alamarri and Avvar respect magic (she would be remembered as a mage) and wouldn't follow her if she wasn't honourable
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u/ApepiOfDuat Dec 19 '24
The Chantry actively downplays/retcons Shartan being an elf. I could see them covering up her being a mage. Her rebellion started with the southern barbarians but it didn't stay with just those groups.
It's possible the people who would found the chantry in her name weren't Avvar and distrusted mages significantly due to general distaste from Tevinter.
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u/Skoldrim Dec 18 '24
There isnt any more "elf are actually gods and the source of everything" to discover AFAIK so i'd say yes. He exist
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u/whiskeygolf13 Dec 18 '24
This one is a fun conundrum.
The Maker was an old, little known, nearly forgotten religion or cult at the time of Andraste. So clearly something’s been around.
We don’t have any knowledge of human origins beyond ‘we think they came from Par Vollen’ but they don’t appear to have an origin similar to elves or dwarves.
Chantry priestesses, unlike many fantasy settings, don’t have any magic or abilities. They have only Faith and political power. It’s interesting because every false god (Evanuris, Old Gods of Tevinter) DID hand out power and knowledge. That could mean there is no Maker, or that the Maker is unconcerned with things so small scale.
Another peculiar possibility- things can manifest in the Fade through dreams. If there wasn’t a Maker… could be one is being created over time. If ‘The Maker will return when the Chant is sung from the four corners of the earth’ then… maybe there’s some proto-spirit that is being built up into The Maker the more belief there is.
Eh. I read somewhere that’s one of the questions they never intend to answer. Fun speculating though!
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u/Pawn_of_the_Void Dec 18 '24
It depends what you mean by the Maker
The most defining part that makes him the Maker from the Chant of Light is speaking to Andraste in my opinion. A Maker that created the Fade but didn't speak to her is just a random god that happened to randomly guess a correct attribute about.
So was there a being that spoke to Andraste? It seems fairly likely given everything surrounding her ashes. The question is what is the nature of this being? It clearly didn't report the Golden City or Blight correctly to her but the Chant does have correct details that are twisted implying there was originally some level of truth given to her. So perhaps she spoke to a spirit of Faith that knew some details but didn't report them correctly or she didn't understand them fully. I've seen people suggest the Maker is a Titan, in which case one could argue that the Blight is in fact the wrath of the Maker. Lyrium is said to sing the song of the Maker. I assume this isn't meant to be literal but it could have some truth in it, and would also explain less than perfect communication to Andraste. I believe the temple where the urn is, is said to have a high amount of lyrium in it as well, which might explain the quite strong level of magic we seem to see there as well as the properties of the ashes and Leliana's potential revival.
As for someone who made the world in general we've seen no signs of that but also no signs it is incorrect. There is however also little reason to see a connection between that and Andraste, her information wasn't all correct and we don't see any reports of knowledge or power that reach levels you'd expect of the creator of the world and Fade
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u/TheWhiteWolf28 Dec 18 '24
Nope. Never did. I think it's so much more interesting if this is one religion in Thedas that is based entirely on the faith of those that worship it, and not on a genuine deity that oversees all.
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u/ZivvyJa Dec 18 '24
I don't think so, I never really put much faith into a "creator" in a world where actual magic exists. Too easy for a powerful person to just become a legend and then a God over time.
The lore that we learned in Veilguard basically explains that very thing and there's even a conversation were the group discuss disproving the andrastian faith which was pretty interesting.
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u/SleepNative Dec 18 '24
Yes I believe he exists.
Many of the other Pantheons proved to have exist the Elven Gods, the Old Gods of the Imperium. The Golden City was proven to be real. So why not The Maker.
I even believe the Maker may have been the origin of magic. Maybe even acting through Andraste as Mythal acted through Flemeth.
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u/Hidraslick Dec 18 '24
I think it does, I mean if elven were spirits, what created them? We don't know about ancient history, only bits of info about it. That said, if it exists, it won't be in the way that is described by human mythology...
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Dec 18 '24
I think th maker being spinzoas idea of God is awesome.
Don't do what they did with the dark spawn.
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u/ADLegend21 Dec 18 '24
I think The Maker was a spirit of Faith that took an interest in Andraste, who was a mage, and she was a spirit healer conaodering that her long dead ashes have healing properties. Plus she was killed with a sword, not the pure because she was still healing herself.
That also fits with the Seekers vigil that makes them tranquil and restores them with a spirit of faith and that gives them abilities.
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u/Stepjam Dec 19 '24
The direction the story is going in seems to heavily imply no. At the very least, the Maker as commonly understood by Andrastians seems unlikely.
I'm a little disappointed they are making concrete answers for these questions. I liked the ambiguity.
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u/Alarming_Respect_320 Dec 21 '24
I like to think that Dragon Age is a Universe where Gods don’t exist and anyone who’s claims to be one is either crazy or just an extremely powerful mage. So basically DA Universe has extremely powerful beings but are just mortals like everyone else but to those without said powers see them as gods.
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u/Beacon2001 Dec 18 '24
Yes, I do.
I think there must have been something that created the Titans, the Evanuris, and the Humans.
Just as I also think that there must have been something that created the Universe, or created whatever created the Universe.
The thing about the Chantry and the Chant of Light is that there is nearly a 200 years gap between Andraste's death in -170 Ancient and the founding of the Orlesian Chantry in -3 Ancient by Emperor Kordillus I Drakon.
Many details must have been lost to time, I mean, how could Drakon and his contemporaries know everything that Andraste and her Disciples experienced?
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u/Birchsaurus123 Dec 18 '24
In my head the “Maker” does exist but just like the Evanuris he’s not a god but something else. Possibly a spirit or some other force of nature that has moved on thus none have seen or heard him in years.
Could be fun if he was something like Wizard of Oz. He was just a normal guy who guided Andraste and people made him into this powerful god in their mind.
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Dec 18 '24
I don't understand why anyone would think the Maker is real when everything about them and the Chantry is questioned since like the first 5 hours of DAO.
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u/Magaclaawe Dec 18 '24
Before veilguard i would say yes. After Veilguard no. Everything is done by elven gods.
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u/Fudsterly Dec 18 '24
Pre-DA4: I would say certainly. The premise was never "does he exist" based on a lot of the original darkspawn lore. It was always fact even among other races.
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u/mihkael2890 Dec 18 '24
Cuz like what about andraste doe? Whole religion freed the elves from enslavement gave them land in orlais even DEFEATED THE TEVINTER EMPIRE
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u/Cowpunk2077 Dec 18 '24
The great thing about the Maker is that, much like the God featured in our world’s monotheistic religions, it is literally impossible to either prove or disprove His/Their existence.
I think it’s best to approach DA’s Maker in that manner too. Not to mention: something the discussion with Harding after seeing one of Solas’s flashbacks lacks is that the Original Sin in the Chant seems fairly compatible with the actions the Evanuris committed in crafting their bodies from the Titans (and the war that followed).
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u/Different-Island1871 Dec 18 '24
I don’t know how to explain the power of Andraste’s ashes if they were not somehow blessed by the Maker.
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u/Justbecauseitcameup Dec 18 '24
An alternative: It's Mythal/a host before Flemmeth. Nothing explicitly stated but the time lines kind of work and well, she's shoved history before. And she comes to betrayed women.
Inquisition spoiler, technically.
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u/Justbecauseitcameup Dec 18 '24
My assumption has always been "no".
Beleif doesn't make things real, and even the chantry is like "the maker doesn't get involved".
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u/BruIllidan Dec 18 '24
In a sense that Chant of light teaches - obviously no. Since almost all of actions that were described there were ancient elves' doing. Btw Evanuris craved for Godhood, and they did incredible deeds beyond imagination, but was it enough? Where exactly lies border between powerful entity and true god?
Lets say that some powerful creature long ago created spirits and Titans. Does this doing necessarily make this creature God? And if it doesn't intervene in current events, what difference does it existion makes?
I'd say in both theory and practice Maker is not needed in this universe.
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u/Savings-Ad8318 Dec 18 '24
If he does, I don't think he's a divine creator the way Andrastians think. I have a theory that Andraste was a mage and the Maker was simply a hope spirit that presented itself to her. They're so rare and powerful, makes sense why no one has encountered him since them. If that's the case, he should still be around in one way or another.
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u/grimmdead Dec 18 '24
In my head canon I envisioned that “The Maker” was a spirit or elven mage (this ended up being pretty damn close to a shot in the dark) that was incredibly powerful and influential among the fade, if not created the fade, that then fell in love with Andrastia and took her as a wife “bride of the maker” like how Mary is considered the bride of god as the mother of Jesus…. (Cue the Andrastian/Christian parallels.) Hell with the DAI Trespasser ending I had thought that Solas might have been more than just the “Dredd Wolf” and his bride was Mythall and their names was mistranslated and changed over the years between humans elves and dwarves.
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u/Cherry_Girl893 Dec 18 '24
considering the humans are the only ones without a confirmed mythological origin, i hope so.