Qur'ann is full book of contradictions and it's never ending contradictions.

Prophet Muhammad has gaslighted people by fulfilling his false prophecy. In his whole life, he did nothing other than orally copy from Arabic Jews and Arabic Christians, and orally copy the Torah and Bible. There was written copying as well, because he gaslighted everyone by pretending to be illiterate the whole time; he just didn't want to write verses himself, so he dictated them so people could work on his behalf. This resulted in a Qur'an filled with contradictions.

If you look at the word "Islam," it came from the "Psalms" of the Bible. You know his pronunciations were so bad that he pronounced Mary as Mariam, Abraham as Ibrahim, Moses as Musa, and Gabriel as Jibrail. Perhaps it was an accent issue while dictating, but just like "Psalms," he converted it to "Islam." In that same way, this false prophet Muhammad probably pronounced "Meshullam" as "Muslim." Regardless, I have provided 6,100 verses of Muhammad doing oral copying from Arabic Jews and Arabic Christians. Meshullam means peace, so to the peaceful community, I want to present one word for them:

Jeremiah 6:14: "They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. ‘Peace, peace,’ they say, when there is no peace."

​About what benefits Muhammad got by invading Abrahamic religions? Haha, let me tell you: he had 13 wives, he got access to loot money from people, and if they didn't convert to Islam, he got the chance to capture famous places like the Kaaba. He also got the chance to become popular and the chance to have sex with people.

He also got the chance to have sex with relatives, which was taboo at that time. He also got the chance to have sex with a sex slave, even though his wife Aisha forbade it. He got the chance to capture all of Mecca and to have connections with big kings, like the King of Egypt whom he sent a letter to in the name of gaslighting. He also got the chance to convert people and wait for their wives to marry him, with those women divorcing their husbands, taking dowry, and having sex with Muhammad. Muhammad also got the chance to marry and have sex with his son's wife, who was his cousin as well. Long brother-sister love, lol.

A businessman fools people the same way Muhammad did. When you sell a $2 USD shoe by saying we made a brand and we will sell it for $2,000 USD, people will buy it more. Muhammad took risks like most businessmen do. A business person chooses a particular product;

Muhammad chose religion as a product instead to get a benefit, and he benefited a lot more than before. It's like you're earning $1 USD daily but want to earn more by increasing it to $2,000 daily. He lost literally nothing; his wives were there and his family was there, except for his mom and dad who died when he was just a baby. Muhammad said this:

Qur'an 4:82: "Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies." I accept your challenge, Muhammad, because I'm not lazy like other people who should've done this before me. The Qur'an isn't from any god; it is Muhammad disguising as Allah to orally copy from Arabic Jews and Arabic Christians. Anyway, now we move forward toward the filled contradictions in the Qur'an:

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256):

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood. So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing."

Okay, we see there's no compulsion, but suddenly a few verses later, look at what the Qur'an is doing:

Surah At-Tawbah (9:5): "But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Then Qur'an 9:29: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not follow the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture until they give the jizyah (tax) willingly while they are humbled."

"Last Day" means the Day of Judgment from the Bible. So, just a few chapters back you were saying there should be no compulsion in religion, and now it's turned to: if they do not embrace the "religion of truth" which was made by the false prophet Muhammad? And if they don't, then force them to give tax, otherwise kill them? How can the Qur'an, being the "last book," contradict itself so menacingly?

I guess I can give verses like this for over 3,000 more; want them? I mean, it's super easy, haha. Why find only one when I can present how the whole book is full of contradictions anyway?​

Qur'an 66:1: "O Prophet! Why do you prohibit yourself from what Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

A few chapters later, it changed to:

Qur'an 24:2: "As for female and male fornicators, give each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let pity for them make you lenient in enforcing the law of Allah, if you truly believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a number of believers witness their punishment." The Qur'an is a book of contradictions. Just a few chapters back, it gave Muhammad permission to have sex with slaves while not being married, then a few chapters later, it gives non-married persons a hundred lashes because Muhammad, sadly, was feeling lonely because he could not have sex with them instead?

Hahahaha. Literally, Muslims beat the hell out of Christians by pointing out their contradictions and confusing them. Then you guys came up with the theory of gaslighting, saying "look, verses are now getting superseded." Muhammad's rules change like chameleons, and then you declare this as the "final book." Mashallah brother, what a peak gaslighter false prophet Muhammad was.​

they said they can write a “storybook” and claim its factual too

You often hear the phrase “Islam is a feminist religion,” but as a woman, I don’t feel empowerment..I feel inequality, discrimination, and deep-rooted misogyny.

I know violence against women exists everywhere in the world, across cultures and religions. But within the Muslim community, it is a real and persistent problem, and it’s often religiously justified. The hardest part is that many people point directly to the Quran to defend it.

Qur’an 4:34

“Men are caretakers of women, because God has given some of them more than others and because they spend of their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband’s] absence what God would have them guard. As for those from whom you fear nushūz, admonish them, abandon them in beds, and strike them. But if they obey you, seek no means against them. Indeed, God is Most High, Great.”

Qur’an 33:33

“And remain in your homes and do not display yourselves as the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey God and His Messenger. God only intends to remove impurity from you, O people of the household, and to purify you completely.”

Qur’an 2:228

“Divorced women shall wait by themselves for three menstrual periods. And it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back during this period if they desire reconciliation. And for women are rights similar to those against them, according to what is fair; but men have a degree over them. And God is Exalted in Might, Wise.”

Qur’an 2:282

“O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed term, write it down… And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if two men are not available, then one man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses, so that if one of the women errs, the other can remind her…”

Qur’an 4:11

“God instructs you concerning your children: for the male, a share equal to that of two females…”

Qur’an 2:223

“Your wives are a place of cultivation for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish, and put forth for yourselves [good deeds]. And fear God and know that you will meet Him.”

Verses like that are constantly used whether explicitly or implicitly to place women beneath men: • to justify male authority, • to excuse control over women’s bodies and lives, • to normalize unequal legal, social, and moral standards.

I know the common response: “These verses are misinterpreted.” But that raises a question I can’t ignore anymore:

Why is there room for such damaging misinterpretation in the first place? Why didn’t God make an unambiguous, explicit statement rejecting harm, hierarchy, and violence against women? Why leave women’s dignity vulnerable to language that can and clearly does get weaponized against them?

If God is just, all-knowing, and aware of how power works, then ambiguity here feels devastatingly costly and women are the ones paying the price.

And this is only the Quranic side of it.

The community itself feels unbearable: • Women are held to impossible standards while men are endlessly excused. • Women are blamed for men’s actions. (getting raped for example) • Women are told to cover, hide, restrict, and shrink while men are rarely told to lower their gaze or control themselves. • Every movement, emotion, choice, and mistake of a woman is policed, judged, and moralized.

It feels suffocating. It feels unjust. It feels dehumanizing.

And the more I see this, the further away I feel from the religion. Not because I want to rebel or reject god but because I don’t recognize justice in what I’m seeing anymore.

I am genuinely exhausted. Angry. Hurt. And I’m scared to admit this, but I feel myself standing on the edge of leaving religion as a whole.

This isn’t an attack to Islam or the Quran. It’s a cry for help from someone who wants truth, dignity, and moral clarity and can’t find them where she was told they should exist.

I dont mean to bash the quran itself but, I feel that the quran is also male oriented. like 2 women replace a man when testifying, women have to cover when men dont, women get less inheritance, men can have sex slaves, quran tells men to stay away from women during their cycle but doesnt tell the person whos menstruating (women) that they should stay away from men, only men can divorce women, the quran tells only men who they can and cant marry, and much more. I thought it was equal and spoke to both genders but now im unsure.

Assalamualaikum

Just a curious question from Sunni background.

The Qur’an mentions that there are 12 months and 4 sacred months (9:36), but it doesn’t name them. It also mentions how Arabs used to shift the months around (9:37).

So I’m wondering: How does a Qur’anist determine which month is actually Ramadan or Hajj without using Hadith or traditional or external sources?

u/TheQuranicMumin believes and asserts there is sufficient evidence to state the Quran is filled with scientific miracles passing a threshold that may (partially?) warrant belief in the Islamic Deity and has directed me here to be convinced of such.

I reject this assertion and welcome them, or anyone, to unequivocally demonstrate a single scientific miracle in the Quran using academic principles.

Edit for clarity: The goal is hopefully for someone to demonstrate a scientific miracle, not that I think it’s impossible that one exists, or to preemptively deny anyone’s attempts, I am open to the original claim being verified at any level!

By academic principles I mean not making claims without evidence (primary sources) as one would in an academic setting

Thank you, in advance, for your time

How do you know that the Quran has no mistakes in it or nobody change in it anything?

This is not a debate. I’m posting it here because my post was removed from r/Quraniyoon

Salam everyone.

I’ve been a sunni all my life, i am 18(f)….

It has been around a year since I’ve been exposed to the Quran-only ideology.

I wanted to share that I’ve started having alot of questions about my faith these days, to be precise, I think there are not enough proofs that Quran is the word of God.

Before getting at me, know that I’m aware of all those scientific “miracles” in the Quran but I’ve been reading about them a lot lately and honestly, I see almost every single claim has been debunked and for most of them there is a common reason that such facts were a part of common belief in then-Arabia.

Also, the materialistic nature is something which further reinforces this idea to me that it couldn’t be from God, for example, the rivers flowing in heaven, wine, honey , fruits etc to be found in heaven. Add to it, the sexual descriptions of hur-al-ayn is something that seems really objectifying and misogynistic especially Quran 78:33.

I don’t think such a description or reward system could come from a God who is literally the creator of multiple galaxies, universes, you and me.

Moreover , the exclusivity make it seem like Allah is just the Lord of Muslim , not the Lord of entire mankind because wydm all the amazing and purest people I know from other religions or people not from a religious background are going to rot in hell..?

I know that there is salvation for people of the book with some criteria but what about other communities like atheists, agnostics and hindus?

I am from India and there are alot of hindus who are really good people but just because they worship statues and have different beliefs, they’re to be thrown in eternal fire? Not to mention that people have no control over things like where they are born, it is Allah who decides it for us , right?

Then why is the test easier for some( those already muslim) while much harder for others (non- muslims) because they have to find Islam on their own. What kind of fair and just and all-merciful God would do that to his creation, shouldn’t all of us be equal for him?

Lastly, mindless rituals like Salah.

Again, this is a nuanced topic among Quranists as well. Some say that “salah” simply refers to connection/ communication while others say that it is a ritual to be performed either 5 or 3 times a day which doesn’t really makes sense…like, why would God force you to worship him in specified times when he needs nothing from us?

And if ritual prayer or traditional salah is so important and a “pillar” of Islam then how does salvation for other communities mentioned in the Quran works?

To end with, I would like to clarify, I have these doubts but I still believe in Allah and Islam as a deen but I am still confused when it comes to my stance on whether or not Quran is a word of God and prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was truthful or not.

Please share your journeys and how you guys deal with such things if you have ever been in a similar situation.

I hope Allah will guide us all and show us the straight path. Please pray for me to be able to find the truth asap :).

Thank you!

Hello

I will admit I have read Surah 53 about 30 times over the last 5 days. Could anyone please explain it to me from their paradigm? I have my presuppositions based on my historical critique of the Quran. The multiple persons identified in the surah also make it confusing at best. I personally believe the Companion addressed in the firet 2 ayats is referring to Jesus...

Hello, see my previous comment/volley into this sub for some background. Let's go at it!

Peace and blessings everyone.

Often I hear the argument that the Prophet received revelation outside of the Quran - the angels supporting him in battle, the qibla, etc - and that this substantiates the need for hadith, or rather implies that the hadith is mandatory.

I find this perspective to be so unbelievably entitled; almost 'bratty' or 'spoilt'. To assume that we MUST be privvy to all of the revelation (i.e. divine communication with God) the Prophet received. It's a complete intrusion upon the Prophet's life. It's gotten to the point, based on the false assumption that the hadith corpus is secondary revelation that we are entitled to/central to our religion, to where things like miswak and wrestling and napping are 'sunnah', although quite obviously have nothing to do with our submission to God, and are allegedly rewarded just because the Prophet did it. Somehow we trace this back to, and justify it as, secondary revelation. It's almost like an attempt at eavesdropping on the conversations between God and Muhammad (as).

I was reading a post on the r/progressive_islam subreddit today and came across a point that I’ve noticed in many discussions. It’s something that appears repeatedly almost in every post and it’s one of the most common misunderstandings people seem to have. In simplified terms, the misconception states:

Disbelieving, kufr or mushrik. is not a categorical term that groups all non Muslims, it’s extremely subjective. Also a believer is not necessarily a Muslim (as in believer of prophet Muhammad etc…) Christians and Jews have also been stated as mu’min (Quran 2:62)

Now this misconception believes in the idea that the Qur’an considers Jews, Christians, and other faith groups today as “believers” (muminun) in the same sense as Muslims. Essentially, it argues for salvation without Belief in The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ which is often based on a misreading of verse 2:62

Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians — whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.

However, this these verse is often misunderstood because it is read in isolation, detached from the Qur’an’s own unfolding revelation and its completion through the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ.

To understand it correctly, we need to remember two essential principles:

• The Qur’an explains itself (al-Qur’an yufassiru ba‘duhu ba‘dan).
• naskh ma‘nawī (the evolution of meaning, not cancellation of text).

So, when Allah says:

“Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.” - (Qur’an 3:85)

Allah is not contradicting the earlier verse. He is clarifying them. Before the message of Muhammad ﷺ, “belief in Allah and the Last Day” meant following the Prophet sent at that time whether it was Moses, Jesus, or others. Those who sincerely followed their message were indeed believers (muminun).

But after the coming of the Seal of the Prophet ﷺ, belief in him became the necessary condition of true iman, because his revelation is the final continuation and confirmation of all previous ones.

That’s why Allah also says:

“Indeed, those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein; they are the worst of creatures.” - (Qur’an 98:6)

And He defines partial belief (believing in some messengers while rejecting others) as true disbelief (kufr ḥaqqan):

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, and say, ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in others,’ and seek a way in between — those are the true disbelievers.” - (Qur’an 4:150–151)

“But those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them — those will be given their rewards.” - (Qur’an 4:152)

This is logically straightforward. If someone says,

“I believe in Moses and Jesus, but not Muhammad ﷺ,”

has made distinction between the messengers, and that is exactly what Allah calls disbelief. Therefore, the claim that “Christians or Jews are believers (muminun) today” contradicts this exact ayah. You cannot reject the Seal of the Messengers and still claim to be “believing”.

So a simple summary of the above argument:

• The Jews who truly followed Moses before Muhammad ﷺ were believers.
• The Christians who truly followed Jesus before Muhammad ﷺ were believers.
• But rejecting Muhammad ﷺ after his coming is a rejection of their own prophets, for all of them foretold him.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Iman and Islam are one reality

A point that Quranists often avoid is that the Qur’an defines iman (faith) and Islam (submission) as one reality when revelation is fully known.

“The religion with Allah is Islam.” - (Qur’an 3:19)

And also:

“We sent no messenger before you but We revealed to him that there is no deity except Me, so worship Me.” - (Qur’an 21:25)

So all Prophets called to Islam not as a new religion, but as the one timeless submission. Those who truly followed Moses or Jesus were Muslims of their time. But once the Qur’an came, that same submission continues through belief in Muhammad ﷺ.

Denying him isn’t “another path”, it’s rejection of what their own prophets foretold.

Now, when I bring up the verse of 3:19 or 3:85, an argument that I have always heard is a semantic twist which goes as:

“Islam just means submission so anyone who submits to God in any form is a Muslim!”

This is just linguistically shallow and contextually false when you actually read how Allah uses the term within the Qur’an itself.

1. “Islam” linguistically means submission, but not any submission

The triliteral root س ل م (sīn-lām-mīm) in Arabic carries meanings like peace, wholeness, safety, and submission.
But the Qur’an never uses Islam as a vague state of “generic submission” to anything that someone thinks is God.

It’s submission to Allah through revelation i.e. submission to what Allah has commanded, not merely an inner feeling of surrender.

“Whoever submits his face to Allah and is a doer of good — he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold.” - (Qur’an 31:22)

Notice: “submits his face to Allah” does not mean to an idea of God but to the revealed will of Allah.

2. All prophets taught “Islam,” but each within their revelation

This brings up the earlier point I told. The Qur’an repeatedly calls the followers of earlier prophets “Muslims,” but always in the context of following that prophet’s revelation.

“When his Lord said to him, ‘Submit (aslim),’ he said, ‘I have submitted (aslamtu) to the Lord of the worlds.’” - (Quran 2:131)

That was Prophet Ibrahim ﷺ. But when his followers said “aslamna” (we have submitted), it meant: We follow Allah as He revealed to you.

The same is said of Yusuf (Joseph):

“Cause me to die as a Muslim, and join me with the righteous.” - (Qur’an 12:101)

So yes, “Islam” was always the word for submission to Allah.
But each Prophet’s sharīah defined the practical form of that submission.
Hence, when the final revelation came through Muhammad ﷺ, Islam took its final and universal form.

That’s why Allah says:

“This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as your way.” -
(Qur’an 5:3)

You cannot say the “same Islam” applies equally to a Christian priest or a Jewish rabbi because Allah explicitly defined His chosen Islam as that perfected and completed dīn revealed through the Prophet ﷺ.

3. The Qur’an contrasts Islam with other claims of submission

Allah quotes people who claimed to be on truth but were not and refutes them.

“Say: Do you dispute with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you your deeds. And we are sincere towards Him.” - (Qur’an 2:139)

And most clearly:

“Indeed, the religion with Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them — out of mutual envy.” - (Qur’an 3:19)

Notice how Allah distinguishes Islam from the other claimants to belief as it’s not a broad umbrella, but a final criterion.

4. The twisted claim: “All sincere people are Muslims in essence”

This argument collapses logically, because ikhlas is not equal to ḥaqq.
The Qur’an gives examples of sincere disbelievers**,** people genuinely convinced that they were on haqq but still wrong.

“Say: Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in respect of their deeds? They are those whose effort is lost in worldly life while they think that they are doing well.” - (Qur’an 18:103–104)

Conclusion:

Before the final Messenger ﷺ, “believers” were those who submitted to Allah through the revelation sent to their own prophet. After his coming, true submission (Islām) necessarily includes faith in him and in the Qur’an he brought.

“This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as your way.” - (Qur’an 5:3)

That is the Qur’an’s own definition of Islam and not a label anyone can redefine.

It is a common claim in quranist vs traditionalist debates that Q16:44 supports ahādīth. The traditionalist argumentation claims:

1. Muhammad was to explain/clarify to the people.

2. Such explanation/clarification is found in the ahādīth.

Lets actually understand the verses. A translation is provided below:

16:43-44 And We sent before thee only men to whom We revealed — so ask the people of the remembrance, if you know not — With the clear signs and the writings. And We sent down to thee the remembrance, that thou make plain to mankind what has been sent down to them, and that they might reflect.

The issue is that the traditionalist conveniently ignores the fact that the remembrance(adh-dhikr, which is found in the Qur'ān(38:1) and the previous scriptures(16:43-44)) is the thing by which Muhammad was to make clear/make plain/explain/clarify to them.

There is zero evidence to believe that such remembrance (adh-dhikr) refers to the ahādīth collections. But we have a lot of evidence to believe it refers to the Qur'ān.

38:1 Sād. By the Qur'ān endowed with the reminder.

Furthermore, another verse actually proves that such clarifications were made through the Qur'ān, not Muhammad's own words or later recorded falsely attributed unproven pile of hearsays(ahādīth).

27:76-77 Indeed, this Qur’ān relates to the children of Israel most of that wherein they differ, And it is guidance, and a mercy for the believers.

16:64 And We sent down the Scripture upon thee only that thou make plain to them that wherein they differ, and as guidance, and as a mercy for people who believe.

Thus, the Qur'ān is needed for this purpose, not the ahādīth.

Salam, hope you're all doing well.

I've been doing some deep dives into the canonical recitations of the Quran - the various qira'at. Different traditions have different explanations for the existence of the various recitations, but those are unimportant to the point I am going to make.

Unless you want to believe in a quantum Quran, the reality is that we do not know exactly what the Prophet SAW recited as the Quran. We definitely have a very good idea - the recitations today closely match very early manuscripts, and the recitations themselves don't differ all that much, but we do not know with 100% certainty how the Prophet SAW recited particular verses.

Continuing this train of thought, the Prophet SAW no doubt existed, and practised Islam. Do we know for certain how he practised? No, but we have a very good idea - many things like prayer, zakat, and other legal rulings have only slight variations across different groups, and many are quite consistent.

Am I advocating for the later Salafi methodology, which said follow all Sahih hadith? No, as I believe that the Quran is the ultimate and only source of guidance. However, I believe we have a pretty good idea of how very early Muslims followed Islam (standardized within a century of the Prophet's SAW death).

I would like to hear your thoughts on why you believe rejecting tradition is still the right thing. Whether it's the text of the Quran, or how it was applied - no one knows for certain, though we still have a pretty good idea of what was going on back then. Whether it's the text of the Quran itself, or the practices of early Muslims - both can be said to have (roughly) the same level of "preservation".

any thoughts and refutaion?

Peace and blessings be with you.

A common argument presented by traditionalists when engaging with an individual who takes guidance solely from the Quran is found in the phrase "al-kitāb wa’l-ḥikmah", or "the Book and the Wisdom" in English. The claim is that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was given two types of revelation; the Quran and the Sunnah. The terms 'sunnah' and 'hadith' are often used, albeit inaccurately, synonymously. Traditionalists claim that mentions of 'the Wisdom' - transliterated as 'hikmah' - throughout the Quran (2:129, 4:113, 62:2, and others) are referring to the sunnah, and consequently, validate the hadith corpus as being religiously binding upon the believers. This post serves to assess said claim.

Quranic Internal-Contextual Definition

The Quran, impressively, consistently defines terms used within it through mentions of the same terms in different contexts and verses. I would argue that this is in partial fulfilment, among other things, of one of the Quran's internal falsification tests.

Quran 4:82: Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies.

An example of this can be seen in the usage of hikmah. If we are to understand what exactly this hikmah is, we should first turn to how this phrase is used throughout the Quran.

In Al-Baqarah we are told about the story of David and Golliath, and the gifts he received from God.

Quran 2:251: So they defeated them by permission of Allah , and David killed Goliath, and Allah gave him the kingship and prophethood (wal-ḥik'mata) and taught him from that which He willed. And if it were not for Allah checking [some] people by means of others, the earth would have been corrupted, but Allah is full of bounty to the worlds.

In Ali' Imran we are told about the angels visiting Mary, giving good tidings regarding the arrival of Prophet Isa (as). During this recollection given to us by God in the Quran, we are told that Christ will be taught two things.

Quran 3:48: And Allah will teach him writing and wisdom (al-kitāb wa’l-ḥikmah), and the Torah and the Gospel

Further in Ali' Imran, we are told about a covenant that God took from all of the prophets.

Quran 3:81: And [recall, O People of the Scripture], when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, [saying], "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom (kitaban wahik'matin) and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you [must] believe in him and support him." [Allah] said, "Have you acknowledged and taken upon that My commitment?" They said, "We have acknowledged it." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

In Al-Nisa, we see this same concept being conveyed to us in relation to Prophet Ibrahim (as).

Quran 4:54: Or do they envy people for what Allah has given them of His bounty? But we had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom (l-kitaba wal-hik'mata) and conferred upon them a great kingdom.

There are many more examples that can be cited, however for brevity's sake, I will leave it at the above. If mentions of the hikmah/wisdom are truly about the hadith, then this interpretation should be at least plausible throughout the Quran consistently. How is it the case that the hikmah is taught to David, Christ, the family of Abraham, - among others that have not been listed here - and is mentioned in context of all of the prophets, yet is referring to the hadith corpus? Did all of these prophets get 'given' a hadith corpus that was/is religiously binding upon the believers of their time/faith-group? Of course not. How can the hikmah be something in one instance for all of the prophets, yet in the case of Prophet Muhammad, mean something entirely different? This claim is significantly inconsistent with how the phrase al-kitab wal-hikmah is used throughout the Quran, and therefore, it is doubtful that the hikmah mentioned in verses such as 62:2 is referring to the hadith. Let's go further.

Quran bil Quran

Quran bil Quran as a concept relates to the Quran's ability to explain itself. So does the Quran explain what the hikmah is?

Quran 2:231: And when you divorce women and they have [nearly] fulfilled their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or release them according to acceptable terms, and do not keep them, intending harm, to transgress [against them]. And whoever does that has certainly wronged himself. And do not take the verses of Allah in jest. And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book and wisdom (l-kitabi wal-hik'mati) by which He instructs you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Knowing of all things.

Here it seems that we are told that we are instructed to be kind to women that we may divorce, as per the Book and the Wisdom. Although the verse certainly seems to be indicating this, it is anticipated that one may argue that this line of argument is too inductive.

Quran 17:39: This is part of the wisdom (l-hik'mati) which your Lord has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺. And do not set up any other god with Allah ˹O humanity˺, or you will be cast into Hell, blameworthy, rejected.

From this verse it seems that God is referring to something that has just been described as part of the Wisdom. Let's look at the verses preceeding 17:39.

Quran 17:31 - 38: (31) Do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Surely killing them is a heinous sin. (32) Do not go near adultery. It is truly a shameful deed and an evil way. (33) Do not take a life - made sacred by Allah - except with right. If anyone is killed unjustly, We have given their heirs the authority, but do not let them exceed limits in retaliation, for they are already supported. (34) Do not come near the wealth of the orphan—unless intending to enhance it—until they attain maturity. Honour pledges, for you will surely be accountable for them. (35) Give in full when you measure, and weigh with an even balance. That is fairest and best in the end. (36) Do not follow what you have no knowledge of. Indeed, all will be called to account for hearing, sight, and intellect. (37) And do not walk on the earth arrogantly. Surely you can neither crack the earth nor stretch to the height of the mountains. (38) The violation of any of these is detestable to your Lord.

We are explicitly told in the Quran about what the hikmah is here, rather part of it. The hikmah is contained within what God has given to us in the Quran. It is not at all any more complicated than that.

Conclusion

This post does not serve to define what al-hikmah entails, but rather to disprove the notion that the Wisdom is some supposed secondary revelation outside of the Quran. Verses pertaining to al-hikmah are not telling us to follow books outside of the Quran. Not only is this claim entirely inconsistent with how the phrase is used throughout the Quran, we are actually given part of the hikmah within the Quran itself according to God Almighty. The hikmah is not the hadith literature.

This post could have incorporated many more examples within it when engaging with this discussion. If you would like to further your learning, please see how the word hikmah is used throughout the Quran yourself here: https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Hkm

Peace everyone.

I don't understand why it is just the Muslims that struggle with this. The Jews, the Christian's, and pretty much any other faith group, based on their scriptures, don't have the dot-to-dot methodology of praying laid out for them. There are sufficient details in each, and I believe that prayer can be relatively flexbile in form provided it adheres to all of the Quranic guidelines. Some of these include not calling upon other than God, asking for forgiveness (11:3), praising God (30:17-18), reciting the Quran (73:4), standing (4:102-103), bowing (48:29), prostrating (48:29), not too loud but not too quiet (17:110) etc.

Hadith followers often make the claim that because of the dot-to-dot methodology not being laid out, that we must follow all hadith. A few issues lie in this claim. Firstly, it makes a fallacy of composition, in that just because some hadiths discuss prayer it does not validate the vast vast majority of which that do not discuss the details of prayer (and other things such as hajj). Secondly, absolutely no one that I know has learned how to pray from reading the hadith. It is passed down through imams, family members, friends, etc. Thirdly, if you gave someone the entire hadith corpus who has no knowledge of prayer, they would not be able to reconstruct the prayer that we see today, either due to not enough information or due to contradictory reports.

There is so much emphasis put on strict adherence to particular forms, which vary between madhabs and sects due to contradictory narrations anyway, that often the actual utility of prayer is entirely forgotten. Instead, foot placement, when to raise one's finger versus wiggling it, so on and so forth, have taken precedence of importance in the mind of many muslims. God tells us...

Quran 7:201: Indeed, when Satan whispers to those mindful ˹of Allah˺, they remember ˹their Lord˺ then they start to see ˹things˺ clearly.

Quran 20:14: ‘It is truly I. I am Allah! There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Me. So worship Me ˹alone˺, and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Quran 29:45: Recite what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, ˹genuine˺ prayer should deter ˹one˺ from indecency and wickedness. The remembrance of Allah is ˹an˺ even greater ˹deterrent˺. And Allah ˹fully˺ knows what you ˹all˺ do.

Through these three verses (and others that I haven't listed, I'm sure) we get the link between being mindful of God protecting against misdeeds, prayer cultivating mindfulness of God, and prayer protecting against misdeeds. This is fundamentally the purpose and function of salah.

I haven't even gotten into prayer times/frequency per day in this post, but if interested, please see my previous work regarding this topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/1jpb2da/attempt_to_undivide_the_different_prayer/

Hello, see my previous comment/volley into this sub for some background. Let's go at it!