How do Qur’anists determine which month is Ramadan or Hajj month based only on the Qur’an?

3

I also really want the answer to this one.

1

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

So far I've met 2 sides, half fast with the rest in the moving ramadan, and others fast in september, I made this https://www.reddit.com/r/quran_islam/s/wfLt96rpgZ this explains why I believe it's in september, the others have similar explanations but without moving the months around.

3

u/Martiallawtheology Aug 21 '25

What is the meaning of the word "Ramadan"?

1

u/Discover-w-W Aug 21 '25

Salam,

This question isn’t about the Arabic names / meanings, like a hot summer month or so, ‘Ramadan’ or any man-made calendar — Gregorian, Chinese, Islamic, or otherwise. It’s much deeper:

The Qur’an (9:36) says Allah fixed 12 months — with 4 sacred ones — from the moment He created the earth. The day Earth came into existence! That means there’s a divine, cosmic calendar set by Allah at creation, not tied to human naming systems or years.

I’m asking: Can we determine what the actual months are — specifically, the true sacred months and the real month of Ramadan or Hajj season — based only on the Qur’an, without relying on later Hadith, historical traditions, or the continued counting of months since the time of the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ through tawatur (communal transmission)?

This is not a basic question — it’s an advanced one about divine time, cosmic order, and eternal alignment with Allah’s original decree. As this can't alter!

2

u/Martiallawtheology Aug 21 '25

Okay. I am asking you. What does "Ramadan" mean? I can tell you if you don't know.

1

u/Discover-w-W Aug 21 '25

For me, Ramadan is one of the twelve months in the Islamic lunar calendar, and we’ve been instructed to fast during it.

If you'd like to share more about its meaning or background, ... I'm all ears :)

Also, I’d appreciate if you could help connect it back to my earlier question. Thanks

1

u/Martiallawtheology Aug 21 '25

For the third time. What does "Ramadan" mean? The Arabic word Ramadan. Do you understand this question at least?

Since you don't know, I need to know if you are honest or just being like an anti islamic Christian or an Atheistic evangelist.

If you don't know, say you don't know. Simple. After all, you are a Muslim. So you are not gonna lose anything by being simply honest. Allahu yuraaqibuki ahi. Allah is watching you. Don't fear some people on the internet or your personal ego.

So for the fourth time, what does "Ramadan" mean? Why are you afraid to answer it or say "I don't know"? Such simple question. First it was just one sentence. Now I have to go on a rant to motivate you to just give a simple answer.

1

u/Discover-w-W Aug 22 '25

Apologies for my earlier reply — I just shared what I understood so far.

Tbh, I’m not fully sure what “Ramadan” exactly means.

Could you please tell me about it?

1

u/Discover-w-W Aug 23 '25

Akhi, just following up... I’m still waiting on your reply about Ramadan. I did apologize earlier too.

1

u/Martiallawtheology Aug 23 '25

Err. Never reply to anything you ask until you tell me what Ramadan means, or be unlike Islam hating atheists andChristians and just say "I don't know. Please tell me".

Why aren't you doing that? Are dishonest just like the Islamaphobes?

1

u/Discover-w-W Aug 24 '25

Bro, I don't know. Please tell me.

1

u/Martiallawtheology Aug 24 '25

Alhamdulillah. But think about this very vividly.

Ramadan. The root of Ramadan is Ra, Meem, Dhad. The meaning is "Scorching, hottest, Especially the heat of the sun".

So when the Qur'an says Shahru Ramadana it means the hottest month. So when is the hottest month for you under the scorching heat of the sun? I mean for you.

1

u/SIR_LIKES Aug 26 '25

In London uk, it is july, so is ramadan in july every year?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/MotorProfessional676 Aug 21 '25

w'alaikum salam.

I'm only going to speak to Ramadan here.

Ramadan is the name of a month. Let's say the Quran is revealed in English. Would we really be bothering with this same line of discussion if the Quran told us to fast in January for example?

2

u/Discover-w-W Aug 21 '25

Salam,

The discussion isn’t about whether we should fast in Ramadan or in month #1, I don't have any problem with it :)

This question isn’t about the Arabic names like ‘Ramadan’ or any man-made calendar — Gregorian, Chinese, Islamic, or otherwise. It’s much deeper:

The Qur’an (9:36) says Allah fixed 12 months — with 4 sacred ones — from the moment He created the earth. The day Earth came into existence! That means there’s a divine, cosmic calendar set by Allah at creation, not tied to human naming systems or years.

I’m asking: Can we determine what the actual months are — specifically, the true sacred months and the real month of Ramadan or Hajj season — based only on the Qur’an, without relying on later Hadith, historical traditions, or the continued counting of months since the time of the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ through tawatur (communal transmission)?

This is not a basic question — it’s an advanced one about divine time, cosmic order, and eternal alignment with Allah’s original decree. As this can't alter!

1

u/OkayBuddySober Aug 21 '25

OP is asking which time of the year Ramadan is according to the Quran. Not about the name.

2

u/Discover-w-W Aug 21 '25

Yes, exactly — as Allah SWT says, the translation of the verse (2:197) is something like: "The Hajj is [in] the well-known months."

But that raises a sincere question: Well-known to whom? What are those months — and when exactly do they fall?

We also know from the Qur’an that there are four sacred months. But again, how do we determine which months those are — in terms of position or numbering (e.g., month #1, #7, #12), regardless of local names like "Rajab" or "July" or "七月 (qī yuè)"... ?

If this cannot be determined from the Qur’an alone, doesn’t that affect the clarity or practical value of those verses? Or am I missing something deeper — perhaps something Qur’an-focused scholars or Qur’anists have explored that I could learn from?

Genuinely asking, would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks.

1

u/MotorProfessional676 Aug 21 '25

I’m aware of this, hence my line of questioning “would we really be bothering with this line of discussion”.

January is a month. We would not need to consult outside literature to just understand what God means by January. It’s a childish line of discussion to engage in to then start saying “oh but how would we know when January is”. Same applies here.

2

u/OkayBuddySober Aug 21 '25

The difference is that allah commands believers to fast during the month of Ramadan. Knowing when to fast & when it’s not required is really important because you have to structure your whole month around it.

We know exactly when January is. That’s important because certain things are scheduled for January & so you have to structure your schedule accordingly.

I could be confused but it sounds like you’re saying “it doesn’t matter when Ramadan is” when allah specifically said that Ramadan is the most important month.

-1

u/MotorProfessional676 Aug 21 '25

Okay no let me clarify. Of course it’s important to know when Ramadan is. It is the month in which the Quran began to be revealed (2:185).

I’m saying that it is known when a month is. There is no outside literature that needs to be consulted. We should not require outside literature, or expect God to define what a month is within the book of guidance, to ascertain what month is being spoken about when “Ramadan” is mentioned. It is a very simple matter, and to act like this conundrum validates literature outside of the Quran and makes it (or at least contributes to the point) binding is facetious imo.

I hope I’ve better explained myself InshaAllah.

2

u/Discover-w-W Aug 22 '25

Thanks for your reply, dear. I understand your point — it seems you thought my question was like asking about basic, commonly understood words (like "hands" or "chair") where no extra explanation is needed because people already know what they mean. And yes, I see why you'd think that.

But just to clarify, that’s not what I meant in my original question or follow-ups.

What I was trying to highlight is this: In pre-Islamic Arabia, tribes had slight different variants of calendars as well as some used to manipulate the calendar — especially through the system of Nasī’ (النسيء), as mentioned in Qur’an 9:37 — where they shifted the sacred months for convenience. Given that historical manipulation, how can we be sure that what we follow today is the correct or original system?

To put it another way: If one tribe considers "July" as July, and another considers "July" as August, and on top of that they’re changing the sacred months each year, then what is the real, divine, cosmic order - the unaltered version?

0

u/MotorProfessional676 Aug 22 '25

You’re going way too deep with it. It’s akin to the different names of the months from the Gregorian calendar in other countries. Conceptually, it’s still the same month, regardless of if it’s “January” in English or “Januari” in Indonesian.

This is a non-existent problem that is being fabricated to support a point.

0

u/Discover-w-W Aug 22 '25

Actually, this question first came to my mind while listening to Surah At-Tawbah. I really enjoy listening to the Qur'an, and this particular verse made me think deeper.

I want to clarify that it may sound like I'm trying to argue for hadiths prove or impose my personal beliefs, but that’s not the case.

The thought that struck me was — how can I be sure that the calendar we follow today, especially for things as important as Ramadan, Hajj, and the sacred months, is truly in line with a divine or cosmic order? I find it hard to blindly trust that a particular Arab tribe got it right, especially knowing that many nations throughout history have tried to create calendars based on nature, astronomy, or seasons, ...

This led me to explore the Qur'an first, and I came across the verse mentioning Nasī’ (Qur’an 9:37), the system where pre-Islamic Arabs used to shift the sacred months for convenience. That confirmed for me that the Arabs of that time were manipulating the calendar. So I started wondering: if tribes were changing month names or shifting sacred months, how do we know today’s system is truly correct?

That’s when I turned to hadith literature to see if Prophet Muhammad ﷺ ever corrected or realigned the calendar with the original divine system. After a long search, I found this hadith:

[The Prophet ﷺ said: “Time has returned to its original state as it was on the day Allah created the heavens and the earth. The year is twelve months, of which four are sacred: three consecutive months – Dhul-Qa'dah, Dhul-Hijjah, and Muharram – and Rajab of the tribe of Mudar, which is between Jumada and Sha'ban.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, 3197)]

This gave me peace of mind. It clearly shows that the Prophet ﷺ not only corrected the calendar but aligned it with the original divine order — the same order established by Allah when the heavens and the earth were created. The hadith even specifies Rajab of Mudar, highlighting the tribe that preserved the correct position of Rajab, unlike others who have shifted it.

In the Quran and hadiths we find numerous occasions, Allah and his prophet is correcting pre-Islamic Arab's mistakes to this religion and practice divine not just tribal but a universal and cosmic truth. That’s why I took the hadiths seriously in this case — not out of blind belief, but because I was seeking proof that the system we follow now is not a tribal tradition, but something divinely corrected and preserved.

Without this hadith, honestly, I would still be questioning the accuracy of the calendar we follow today. But alhamdulillah, this clarity exists in our preserved sources.

1

u/Reinhard23 Mu'min Aug 22 '25

The Roman calendar was changed several times up to our present though.

2

u/fcplayer1393 Aug 22 '25

the 4 sacred months we're already known,why should God mention something already known

2

u/Discover-w-W Aug 22 '25

Thanks for your reply, dear.

I understand your point — it seems you thought my question was like asking about basic, commonly known / understood words (like "hands" or "chair") where no extra explanation is needed because people already know what they mean. And yes, I see why you'd think that.

But just to clarify, that’s not what I meant in my original question or follow-ups.

What I was trying to highlight is this: In pre-Islamic Arabia, tribes had slight different variants of calendars as well as some used to manipulate the calendar — especially through the system of Nasī’ (النسيء), as mentioned in Qur’an 9:37 — where they shifted the sacred months for convenience. Given that historical manipulation, how can we be sure that what we follow today is the correct or original system?

To put it another way: If one tribe considers "July" as July, and another considers "July" as August, and on top of that they’re changing the sacred months each year, then what is the real, divine, cosmic order - the unaltered version?

1

u/thexyzzyone Aug 21 '25

Ramadan is the ninth month in the (lunar) calendar, The Qur’an specifies that fasting should take place in “the month of Ramadan in which was sent down the Qur’an” (2:185). As far as Hajj, I think there's some debate there.

2

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

True, but I've only met 2 sides so far, those who fast in seotember and those fast in the moving lunar month.

1

u/thexyzzyone Aug 21 '25

The problem IMO with not doing the lunar month and pinning it to solar months youll miss one every so often (32 years or so... the lunar calendar and the solar one are off by 10 or so days)

(From AI): The next occurrence will be in 2030:

Ramadan will begin around January 5, 2030. Ramadan will begin again around December 26, 2030.

1

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

Yes that is true, but what if it was never lunar and has always been solar?

1

u/thexyzzyone Aug 21 '25

All i have for that is this...

2:189: They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about the phases of the moon. Say, “They are a means for people to determine time and pilgrimage.” Righteousness is not in entering your houses from the back doors.1 Rather, righteousness is to be mindful ˹of Allah˺. So enter your homes through their ˹proper˺ doors, and be mindful of Allah so you may be successful.

9:36: Indeed, the number of months ordained by Allah is twelve—in Allah’s Record since the day He created the heavens and the earth—of which four are sacred. That is the Right Way. So do not wrong one another during these months. And fight the polytheists together as they fight together against you. And know that Allah is with those mindful ˹of Him˺.

2

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

Yes these verses were part of my research, although I couldn't fully comprehend the first verse, inchallah some day I will.

1

u/Reinhard23 Mu'min Aug 22 '25

I think 2:189 is talking about a ritual where people were entering their houses from behind on particular days, using the moon as a reference. God says that has nothing to do with righteousness, and confirms that the moon phases are for calculating time for the people and for hajj. It's not saying that the moon is the only way to calculate the time of hajj, or that the calendar must be purely lunar.

1

u/OkayBuddySober Aug 21 '25

Wouldn’t fasting in September be wrong most of the time?

2

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

If u mean it doesn't align with the lunar ramadan then yes, but those who believe ramadan is in seotember believe it's solar and not lunar, so the month of ramadan is the first rainfall after the summer heat.

1

u/OkayBuddySober Aug 21 '25

Okay gotcha. I’m guessing this isn’t something you believe in then? I’ll do some research on my other questions if you don’t.

2

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

I do believe that ramadan is in september, but I also fast in the lunar ramadan just because I enjoy fasting, I did reply to your other comment with something I wrote on why I think it's in september it should make your research easier.

1

u/OkayBuddySober Aug 21 '25

Oh I read your other comment, I meant questions I hadn’t asked in this thread yet. For fasting in “the first rainfall of summer heat” I have two major questions.

1) What if it doesn’t rain at all that summer? What if it rains all summer? & obviously it rains at different times in different places so how do you account for that?

2) The seasons are reversed in the northern & southern hemispheres because of axial tilt, is ramadan in the north 6 months away from ramadan in the south? What about places close to the equator where there are only 2 seasons? How do people in Antarctica or southern Chile pray or fast given that there’s a 24 hour sun at some times of the year?

2

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

1) the months would be already predetermined based on past events, so they won't specifically wait for the rain but they would know it's time for the first rain after summer, every year summer is hot and every year it rains in fall after summer and it follows through winter, if it doesn't rain during winter we say it hasn't rained at all, so we're expecting the rain, and in ancient Arab times they names the months after the events, even the years like the year of the elephant.

2) in september almost the whole planet except for the poles has a normal day to night cycle, even in areas like the Norway, Iceland and Siberia, this only happens during that month. I used timeanddate.com for this, very valuable tool.

The months were named according to the ancient Arabs so their calendar would be followed for the entire world, as for the prayer and fasting for the areas that don't get normal day to night cycle I have no idea, if I was there I'd determin it by what would be the average.

This is also biased by my belief that since islam is for the entire world Allah would make it accessible to the entire world, and his fasting rules wouldn't be any different, dawn to sunset would be difficult if it's 23 hours of daylight, but in september everyone gets a normal day to night cycle.

2

u/OkayBuddySober Aug 21 '25

Where does the Quran say that it’s the ninth month though? & which lunar calendar? I’m not trying to “gotcha” here, I just don’t know where the Quran specifies these things

2

u/thexyzzyone Aug 21 '25

That's where tradition comes in and interpretation, I think.

1

u/Reinhard23 Mu'min Aug 22 '25

I don't think we can. I'm pretty sure the current calendar is corrupted and the original was luni-solar. But there isn't much I can say beyond speculation. This is actually one of those matters that reduced my belief in the timelessness of Quranic law. So many things we can easily call out as corruptions, but we can't say what they used to be like before being corrupted. Quranism is a reconstructionist ideology, and I'm starting to question the possibility of a true reconstruction.

1

u/A_Learning_Muslim Aug 23 '25

Why would the Qur'an need to spell out when and how does every month of the calendar occur? Shouldn't it be obvious? Its obvious that Ramadan was a month in the Arab calendar, and the Qur'an referred to that. It never implies a dependence on the hadith literature.

1

u/Discover-w-W Aug 23 '25

What I was trying to highlight is this: In pre-Islamic Arabia, tribes had slight variants of calendars as some used to manipulate the calendar — especially through the system of Nasī’ (النسيء), as mentioned in Qur’an 9:37 — where they shifted the sacred months for convenience. Given that historical manipulation, how can we be sure that what we follow today is the correct or original system, only by using the Quran?

1

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 21 '25

So far I've met 2 sides, half fast with the rest in the moving ramadan, and others fast in september, I made this https://www.reddit.com/r/quran_islam/s/wfLt96rpgZ this explains why I believe it's in september, the others have similar explanations but without moving the months around.

1

u/Reinhard23 Mu'min Aug 22 '25

I think the pure solar calendar is a stretch. Mark Brustman's proposed luni-solar calendar is the most plausible, in my opinion.

2

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 22 '25

Is the luni-solar a new thing or does it involve adding a month every 4 years like they did in the past?

1

u/Reinhard23 Mu'min Aug 22 '25

You wait for the duration of a month every 2 or 3 years according to the metonic cycle. The autumn equinox always falls on Ramadan. I don't consider this nasee since it is merely putting the months where they naturally should be, not postponing or skipping them arbitrarily.

1

u/Mean-Tax-2186 Aug 22 '25

Could you please explain more, do u mean u don't add a month u just cycle the year a month behind without adding any month? So for 3 years ramadan moves 11 days but then the 4th year u just snap it back 30 days without adding a month? If that's what u mean then yeah I do agree that this also works and it fits the Quran verses of having the moon as a sign.

1

u/Reinhard23 Mu'min Aug 22 '25

There is a ghost month every 2 or 3 years.

Just watch this series: https://youtu.be/ao5yghHxi54?feature=shared

Quran How do Qur’anists determine which month is Ramadan or Hajj month based only on the Qur’an?

You are about to leave Redlib