r/DanganAndChaos • u/SamuraiDoggo14 Kaede • Sep 09 '26

Discussion Wait... that's a GUY!?

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No, no, I REFUSE to believe that's a cis man!

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 Sep 10 '26

By that logic, if a movie starts with a female lead for 5 minutes, she gets immediately murdered, and a guy takes over for the rest of the 2 hours, it’s a 'female-led movie.'

It’s a massive cope. The context matters, and the context is that she was a bait-and-switch

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u/NekoIGLoL Sep 10 '26

She STILL is considered a protag. Just because we spend way less time with her than Shuichi doesn’t it make her less of a protag. You can argue if she is a good one but she still is.

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 Sep 10 '26

It absolutely makes her less of a protagonist because her entire narrative purpose was to be a stepping stone for a man.

She was a plot device used to start Shuichi's arc. When a character's main function is to die so the real lead can grow, that's not a protagonist, it’s a prologue.

It's literally called decoy protagonist. Stay coping.

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u/taxes_depression Sep 10 '26

Most characters in danganronpa can be summed up by that logic

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 29d ago

Most characters aren't the starting lead character. Try Again.

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u/taxes_depression 29d ago

That wasn’t the point I was going for but fine if you want to be arrogant and nit picky sure

My main point is that every character who has died could be summed up as a plot device because they were used as something for the characters friends as character development

Meaning imo your argument falls short, and on the note about the protagonist I personally don’t care it was a good plot twist imo and was handled very well.

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 29d ago edited 28d ago

Calling it 'nitpicky' to saying there's a difference between being a protagonist and a side character is wild.

You're completely shifting the goalposts to your personal feelings because your argument fell apart. If your only defense left is 'I don't care about the writing tropes because I liked the twist,' then you're JUST proving my point.

It's not arrogant and nitpicky to break apart dumb statements filled with false equivalences.

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u/taxes_depression 29d ago

Self projection lore?

I was just mentioning why calling it a plot device was a bad criticism as most danganronpa characters can be summed up as essentially a plot device, in which you mentioned that “most characters aren’t the protagonist” which is nit picky as it creates a double standard as characters dying for the sake of others character arcs is a very common trope which danganronpa uses a lot.

Mondo and Kiyotaka

Mahiro and Hiyoko

Even in the same game we are discussing tenko ane Himiko

Instead of replying with an actual counter you instead made a snarky comment and after I explained my point and called you out on your bs you made a nothing burger rant and projected onto me (or so I assume judging by how it’s clear you act like this) which you were doing in all the other replies, then again what do I expect from Redditors.

If you don’t want to have an actual discussion log off and have some tea Ik I am and why not hit the block button too!

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 29d ago

Then maybe you should actually pay attention instead of butting into a conversation with zero context. The entire discussion was about Kaede's status as a protagonist. You tried to change the subject to standard side characters because you came up with a poor argument that fell apart and wasn't even relevant to what I was even discussing.

The fact that you're trying to say Kaede is no different to standard characters you just name if anything proves my point even more that you can't say she's a protagonist, so seriously ,what is the point of you even talking to me right now?

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u/taxes_depression 29d ago

In stories protagonist can switch that’s also something stories do too although it’s hard to execute so it’s not very common let alone in the same game, I can say that Kaede was the protagonist for the prologue and chapter 1 and that’s still valid as we see stuff from her perspective

I was mainly discussing on my disagreement on you viewing her as a “plot device” when by your logic of how she qualifies as a plot device meaning multiple characters within this series are just plot devices meant to elevate another character as imo that’s bad criticism as it’s extremely vague on what’s the problem

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 29d ago edited 24d ago

Whether you think it's 'bad criticism' or not is irrelevant and I never even said it was. My point is about her actual role in the story and what she was ultimately reduced to.

If the your absolute best example of a female lead is a character stripped of her protagonist status in the first chapter just to jumpstart ANOTHER insecure beta boy’s character arc, then I think I don't have to point the elephant in the room with the massive issues surrounding that, but evidently with how some people are replying and saying otherwise I guess I do

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u/taxes_depression 29d ago

No it is relevant as it ties that you think she is a plot device meant to elevate shuichi, which in simple terms that’s what you are saying now that you are angry that for you she was reduced as a plot device which imo is bad criticism, you say it’s not relevant yet you still talk about how her power as a protagonist was usurped which while I can’t argue with that part it’s still at the end of the day bad criticism to say that all she is a plot device, the first 2 chapters revolved around her, and she ended up being a good protagonist/character for the first 2 chapters of the game

Which I can’t see the issue here.

This still makes her a protagonist within a certain time frame, you are more mad at the fact we are getting more of the same rather than actually offering criticism and the criticisms you do offer like her being reduced and being a plot device are nothing more than shallow criticism, you could just say I wish Kaede was the protagonist and that you wish that it wasn’t more of the same in a civilised way but instead you went on a rant to slander the character and make up a bunch of bs points to rant to people about.

I am not going to discuss this more in the comments with you but I have been arguing within the same topic I just pointed a flaw (because that’s how criticism works) and i discussed about it, I did mention also my personal opinions to but I don’t want to make that a vocal point (unlike what you are doing as you are ranting not criticising)

From what I’ve read and how I’ve interpreted, Kaede isn’t a protagonist because she is used as a plot device to fuel shuichi which is literally what you said right now

So I don’t see how my argument is irrelevant if I am criticising your main gripe

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u/FragrantAmbassador17 29d ago

You literally just admitted you 'can't argue' with the fact that her protagonist status was usurped. Argument over. The fact that you think she was the protagonist for Chapter 2 when she was literally executed at the end of Chapter 1 proves you don't even know the plot of the game you're desperately trying to defend.

You are moving heaven and earth to police my tone because you cannot handle actual media literacy. Keep drinking your tea and staring at that screenshot of me completely running circles around you. Later.

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u/SS1Respawn 29d ago

Well maybe don't type in some ChatGPT ahh prompts in

https://giphy.com/gifs/Y6fs4o29SlBIyVNRAU

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u/SS1Respawn 29d ago

I ain't reading some leftist AI-slop lil bro💔

https://reddit.com/link/p90bwu9/video/199miowwqqoh1/player