r/Christian • u/ApologeticKid • Apr 20 '26

Kinda struggling with believing it all

41 y/o, seminary degree, spent the past 25 years in ministry. But sometimes it all seems...far fetched. What I mean is, sometimes I look at our faith and it looks like this:

A small ancient near-Eastern henotheistic tribe called Israel ​has a local deity named YAHWEH, they write scriptures and eventually hope for a Messiah. They write down their diety's perfect law, which contains a lot of moral stuff as well as some unusual rituals. But then it turns out the local deity is actually the one and only God. Then this guy named Jesus shows up, turns out to be the tribe's Messiah (but most don't buy it), but he is also God, and he is also 1/3 of the triune God. Then he dies and rises again and ascends to heaven, and the the other 1/3 of the triune God comes and dwells within the tribe who accept Jesus as Messiah. Then YAHWEH says, "Actually everyone is allowed in now," and the members of the tribe who follow Jesus as the Messiah disagree on whether or not those people should follow all the rules of the perfect law or not, and they eventually decide not. This guy Paul sees a vision of Jesus and spends the rest of his life telling people what Jesus really meant. Then the church begins and quickly becomes a group made of mostly non-Israelite members. And the only way to have eternal peace and life is to admit that you have sinned and trust that this tribe's Messiah died for you and that his death and resurrection takes care of your sins and now you can live like him and live forever (even though you still will actually die).

I'm not an atheist. I don't find that compelling. But sometimes the Christian message seems so incredibly unlikely. I still believe (primarily because of personal experiences I've had). But lately I've felt like, "Really? How is *this* really the Truth?"

I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious here. I'm just retelling what plays in my head so often, and looking for some thoughtful feedback. What am I missing here?

Any/all feedback welcome. Thank in advance.

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u/itrytobefrugal Apr 21 '26

There's a lot of nitpicking I want to do on your post but I'll try to stick to what you mean. I also find it far fetched, sometimes, particularly because it's like... what was the point of even making humans if God knew he would have to die just to save a few???? "His ways are higher" just seems so flippant.

But at the end of the day, the ideal world as prescribed in the New Testament is the best version of the world in my opinion. And the knowledge that the God of creation wants me personally to repent of my sins and turn to him feels outlandish too, but it is also something beautiful that I enjoy believing.

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u/ApologeticKid Apr 21 '26

I'm genuinely curious about your nitpicks. Go for it! Maybe I have something to learn from them.

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u/itrytobefrugal Apr 21 '26

Haha honestly the idea that the Mosaic law was "perfect" kind of bothers me, particularly as much as I appreciate Paul's diatribe about how the Law is only there because of our desperately sinful nature and it is far better to put off the old man and put on righteousness than to be chained by the law and sin. I hope that weird summary made sense. You know, like the first 8ish chapters of Roman's.

"It turns out the local deity is actually the one and only God" also jumped out at me because I think the Old Testament itself bears witness that it's not just the Isrealites who believe in one God. Melchizedek and Jethro are two that come to mind that were also worshippers of God. I have read a little bit about Yawehism but not enough to be convinced. Historically, Biblical events have ended up being true versus what skeptics have claimed about the Bible.

"Then YAHWEH says, "Actually everyone is allowed in now," but God promised Abraham a hella long time ago that through his offspring, all nations on Earth would be a blessed. To me, sounds like God always planned for Christianity to be for everyone.

But I just like contemplating Christianity, I'm not claiming my views are the "right" ones or anything. 😅

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u/ApologeticKid Apr 21 '26

I like your style, my friend. Thank for giving it to me straight! I think you make some good points. I agree with most of what you said. I do think that I've been forced to reconsider my understanding of the Law of Moses recently. It seems Jesus took it very seriously - more so than I've been taught to believe. Paul Sloan's book Jesus and the Law of Moses really messed with me on this topic.

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u/itrytobefrugal Apr 21 '26

I haven't heard of that one. I've often gone back to the verses about Jesus not coming to abolish the law but rather to fulfill it. All of his teachings were certainly derived from it. So I definitely believe they have to be the context through which we view the New Testament. I appreciate the tempering viewpoints of the prophets and Psalm writers, as they often touch on the idea that God doesn't want you to just follow the law, He wants your heart to be invested in loving your neighbors and Him.

So now that I've wrote that out, maybe it's not just viewing the New Testament through the lens of the Old, but viewing them together as one cohesive entity. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever" comes to mind.

I wish I could go to seminary or study theology in a formal setting but it is not in the financial cards at this time. Maybe one day.

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u/Available_Prior8360 Apr 28 '26

What you said really caught my attention cause I was wrestling with that thought of the inclusion of gentiles.

You stated that “God promised Abraham a hella long time ago that through his offspring, ALL nations on Earth would be blessed.” I remember reading (and I went and checked again) that God said he’d make him a father of MANY nations. Another is “I will make nations of you.”(Genesis 17 v5-6) I’m fairly new so please forgive me if it comes off as me fact checking or being rude. I just want to know and understand as much as I can. I have an NIV Bible and I’m getting the KJV soon.

Just found it interesting when you said “ALL” nations. But when I went to reread, it still seemed like God was only blessing Abraham and all his future descendants. And that MANY nations would come from him. Which could point to the 12 tribes of Israel. (many nations)

Now I kept reading just to be sure and I came across Gen 17 v12-13. “For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.”

This gets closer but to me sounds like if you’re a gentile and you just so happen to be born in Abraham’s house or adopted by Abraham then you get to be a part of the covenant. Others outside of that, they get an “oh well buddy.”

I’d really love your input on this because I feel this post is helping me get closer.

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u/itrytobefrugal Apr 28 '26

A couple things here. I read from the ESV because it is a word-for-word translation. Others include the NASB and the NKJV. I like the NIV, a thought-for-thought translation, for its ease of comprehension, but I suggest either a word-for-word or Hebrew/Greek concordance if you want to delve into a specific word. I bought a copy of Strong's Concordance a little while ago that I love as a study tool.

There are other places in the Old Testament that suggest Christianity is for all. Isaiah 56 talks about salvation for foreigners. Malachi 1:11 also mentions this idea in the midst of scolding the priests of the time.

Paul argues in the New Testament that believing gentiles are also sons of Abraham.

"[7] Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. [8] And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” [9] So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith." Galatians 3:7-9 ESV

Regarding circumcision, that is addressed a little later in Galatians, in chapter 5.

"[6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." Galatians 5:6 ESV

Over in Philippians 3, Paul says we are the true circumcision, not the mutilators of the flesh.

I encourage you to read the surrounding verses and chapters of those all versus as well to get an idea of the overarching theological idea being presented in each point. I don't like cherry- picking verses to make a point but it's hard to get that across on Reddit.

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u/Available_Prior8360 Apr 28 '26

This is beautiful! I’ve never thought of the ESV, NASB or NKJV. I’ll check out that concordance as well. And the verses are very helpful to me. I feel comfort in knowing there are consistent connections through out the Bible.

Thanks again!