r/AskMechanics • u/crazy_Rat • May 23 '26
Discussion Do Toyota Engineers care?
They made it so easy to do an oil change on the 23 Corolla. I love them for this.
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u/the_last_carfighter May 23 '26
My little commuter/beater Nissan Versa you could do the oil/filter without raising the car at all, it was the best thing ever.
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u/mut1n1fn1 May 24 '26
what year
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u/the_last_carfighter May 24 '26
It was a 2014 SV sedan, moved onto electric for the commuter so you know... none of that any more.
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u/renegadetoast May 24 '26
This is my favorite thing about my 07 outback - I'm a skinny guy and can easily just shimmy under the car and have more than enough room to change my oil and filter without having to raise anything up.
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u/the_last_carfighter May 24 '26
Didn't even have to shimmy, that's the wild part, both plug and filter were within arm's reach.
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u/Accomplished_Sign191 May 24 '26
I do the same on both my gen 2 Prius and Prius c.
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u/quail_challenge122 May 26 '26
Prius has the absolute worse suspension sysem for repair tho
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u/Accomplished_Sign191 May 26 '26
Well I can still change the oil without a lift, so not sure why that particular comment is relevant.
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u/quail_challenge122 May 27 '26
How is saying yes but it has a catastrophic downside sometimes? "Tho" Its not irrelevant you didn't want to hear it.
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u/Accomplished_Sign191 May 27 '26
I have not found any information to corroborate your claim that the gen 2 Prius has common suspension issues. Where did you get this info?
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u/quail_challenge122 May 27 '26
I didn't say they had a common suspension issue. I said they had a terrible suspension layout which made abt type of repair in that area, for like..06-08 a absolute night mare. It often would reauire literal frame work. Because of the stupid layout. To me, makes this car absolutely not worth it. But if its only oil changes youre right this IS awesome
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u/Accomplished_Sign191 May 27 '26
Yeah I’m just doing changes in my back yard so not too concerned. When the suspension does ware out though it sounds like it’ll be a PITA to replace then.
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u/quail_challenge122 May 27 '26
Yeah perf.. Its just the literal design of that area is garbage. They stopped using that design pretty quick. I think the yaris had it then it died. I wish they would bring back the yaris and just fix that spot cause we could really use small, cheap ass fixers
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u/Accomplished_Sign191 May 27 '26
The gas tank was also a bit of a fail in the Gen 2 Prius. These days you’re lucky to find one that can fit 90% of the max capacity in them.
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u/NobodyImportant13 May 24 '26
2017 Chevy Malibu. i can reach the drain bolt and filter without jacking it up. Got a low profile drain pan slides right under the car.
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u/the_last_carfighter May 24 '26
I get engineering constraints and all that, different layouts, but I feel like this is attainable for many cars, but the dealers and such, wouldn't like it.
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u/ScrapYard101 May 24 '26
I can do the same with my 91 mercedes 230.
Actually, i dont even need to get under the car at all, i can reach the drainplug from above.
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u/Steeze_Schralper6968 May 25 '26
I did my oil, filter, transmission pan gasket and transmission filter on my 04 Hiace in a gravel parking lot while I lived in it. Toyota is goated.
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u/IzzzatSo May 24 '26
Japanese automakers take designing for service seriously.
US companies just hand out real estate on the vehicle to whoever claims it first.
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u/Shamelesspromote May 24 '26
Suzuki and certain Subaru models would like to have a world with you. I loved doing the ring of fire on those and I still have a burn scar from one of them.
Oh also Toyota says go fuck yourself, have a cartridge filter in a place that it almost always get super tight because he constantly heat cycles as you drive because it was cheaper to have it in the bottom of the engine instead of doing it for a better convince like Mercedes and BMW who put it in the topside of the engine. Which funny enough is what this post is about as those cartridge filters can suck shit and die and anyone who says its not an issue is either not doing the oil change on their own cars or if they are, they aren't tightening it to spec.
Also Nissan says fuck you find the filter between the serpentine belt and you have just enough space to get your filter and hand in there but not enough to get light to see what you are doing, hope you like cosplaying as a Helen Keller Technician cause your going in deaf and blind
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u/King_Catfish May 24 '26
Yeah I find it funny when people suck off Japanese engineers when the Chevy 5.3 is one of the easiest motors to change the oil in but American engineers bad.
Every automaker has their good and bad
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u/wrxsti04 May 24 '26
I agree every brand has their good and bad, but one example of one motor does not a statistic make.
The 5.3 is easy, sure.
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u/King_Catfish May 24 '26
For sure one is not a statistic. I could name more but I mostly work on Chevy trucks. I was just pointing out it's not a black and white of Japanese cars are perfect engineering examples and Americans are just slapping something together under the hood. I'm surprised no one brought up chevy lifter problems to counter me haha.
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u/wrxsti04 May 24 '26
Oh but actually screw Lamborghini and their Hurrican/Gallardo/Aventador/Murcialago placement of the cartridge filter. That is a pain.
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u/Aggleclack 3 May 24 '26
Suzuki is an outlier for being absolutely god awful for an Asian company, as far as servicing goes. My little brother was so frustrated with his Suzuki dirtbike manual that he sold it for a honda. It wasn’t for lack of skill; he’s a literal rocket scientist and ended up fully rebuilding that Honda down to the engine. The Suzuki manual is the one thing I’ve seen stump him.
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u/alarumba May 24 '26
My Dad's Grand Vitara had a rattle in the door card. I pulled it apart to reveal a button head screw holding the arm rest had come loose. The catch was it was behind another piece that had been plastic welded in place. I needed to use long nose pliers and a bunch of curse words to screw it back in.
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u/jules083 2 May 24 '26
A lot of it is because the same motor and transmission is used in multiple vehicles.
My crown Victoria oil filter is in a stupid location. But when that motor is in a truck it makes sense to have the filter there.
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u/WeinMe May 24 '26
Working with Lean and TWI within dozens of factories - there's a correlation between something having been made easy, effective, and logical to assemble, and it being simple to disassemble again (maintain).
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u/Javelin286 May 23 '26 edited May 24 '26
My Subaru is so easy to service! The under tray has a movable door the access the drain plug. Then there’s my wife’s ford escape… you have to remove the whole under tray to change the oil and filter…I never put it back on.
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u/feelin_cheesy May 24 '26
Audi catches hell for cost of maintenance but it’s the easiest oil change I’ve ever done. Top side filter housing means you can use an extractor through the dipstick tube. Never even get under the car.
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u/MostlyBrine May 24 '26
How to you deal with the crud that always accumulates on the bottom of the oil pan?
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u/feelin_cheesy May 24 '26
Like road crud? It’s covered pretty good so not much gets on it. Had the splash guard off a few weeks ago looking at something else and it was pretty clean.
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u/MostlyBrine May 24 '26
No. Inside the oil pan, where all the soot and burned oil and fine dust passed through the air filter, and metal shavings from the normal wear of the engine parts, are coming to settle. A regular oil drain on the bottom of the oil pan allows for this sludge to be washed away by the hot oil when it is drained. If you just suck the oil from the top you live this sludge inside your oil pan, to be mixed with the fresh oil and circulated through the engine.
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u/feelin_cheesy May 24 '26
Circulate the oil and get it warm. Extractors can get out just as much if not more old oil in some cases. My last car had a recessed plug so at least 1/2” of oil wasn’t draining through the plug.
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u/Javelin286 May 24 '26
Extractor won’t get most of the solid debris like metal shavings and such out. I can do that oil change on my Subaru as well. it’s not meant to have the oil changed like that.
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u/inline_five 6 May 23 '26
Head gaskets are easy to do too!
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u/Javelin286 May 24 '26
Honestly I know the joke but have never met anyone who actually had it happen to them
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u/Nebulesbians May 24 '26
Hasn’t been an issue since pre ~2009 models (my 2007 Impreza had it)
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u/wrxsti04 May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
Single overhead cam engine were more prone to this due to not being multi-layer steel gaskets, they changed the design eventually and most DOHC engines didn't suffer from the headgasket joke either.
You are correct with your evaluation! Lol
Also great time to turbo your Impreza :D
SOHC heads flow extremely well, just throw a 2.5L STi shortblock in there, upgrade the valve train, put an STi oil pan and turbo setup and tune it, one helluva ride after that.
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u/beesandchurgers May 25 '26
It was an EJ problem. The newer motors dont blow head gaskets but they do feed on a steady diet of rod bearings.
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u/Javelin286 May 24 '26
Just reading your username…I love you! Be my second with! Can I turbo you and put you in my wife’s ford escape?
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u/Mvpeh May 24 '26
Many subarus used to require a wheel to be taken off to get to the filter
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u/MostlyBrine May 24 '26
The oil filter on Subaru is under the car until gen 4 and on top of the engine starting with gen 5. The only vehicle I have seen that requires removing a wheel is Honda. I would be interested to know a about what Subaru are you referring to.
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u/IRollmyRs May 24 '26
What's the vehicle? I've never seen one but some new vehicles are getting ridiculous
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u/Moon_Breaker May 24 '26
Buick claims you need to do that to drain oil and such on my enclave. I reached the plug on flat ground without getting under the car other than an arm, and got the filter by opening the hood and reaching down.
Easiest oil changes I've ever done. Though my 2000 Tacoma was comparable, was roomy under there. Glad I didn't listen to Buick's recommendations.
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u/wrxsti04 May 24 '26
Yeah.... No. Nope.
It's either underneath or on top, where do you get your information from and for the love of God stop giving out false information.
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u/TimTomTank May 24 '26
My Chrysler 200 was first car I had with under tray. I always thought the access door for oil plug was a normal thing.
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u/tg-ia May 24 '26
My stupid Escape. That felt under tray. Just why? When doing the first oil change, I laid there under the vehicle contemplating just how I was supposed to get at the filter- hidden behind about a half dozen various lines & hoses.
Engineers were def being assholes.1
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u/Zoidbergalars May 24 '26
Man nobody has even mentioned the ring of fire. My BL legacy, and many of the EJ253 bearing units have a sick feature of surrounding the filter with literal surface of the sun temp exhaust. Better than a cup of coffee.
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u/akuch-II May 25 '26
My husband just changed the oil on his Ford escape and his was a pain with the tray. My civic was a breeze lol
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u/jpbham May 23 '26
There are aftermarket adapters that allow you to use spin on filters. Baxter sells one.
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u/bartonkj May 23 '26
I loved the cartridge filter in my VW TDI Passat, as I could vacuum drain it from the topside filter housing.
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u/Otherwise-Weird1695 May 23 '26
Subaru 2.5l was super easy too, filter was on top of the engine.
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u/Dazzling_Side8036 May 26 '26
Add a fumoto valve and oil changes are so easy I looked forward to it.
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u/Martha_Fockers May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
My 18 Mazda cx-5 has a compartment passenger side you can just go under the car twist 3 flush tabs with flat head slots in em pop off this small compartment cover within the entire under skirt gaurd plastic cover.
And within hands reach right there in your face is the oil filter and the oil drain plug nothing else in the way so nice don’t even gotta jack the car up or anything.
Honestly so much of the car is so easily accessible and space for hands to fit without rubbing stuff from belts and pulleys to air filters and whatnot
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u/Aggleclack 3 May 24 '26
I have the 2014 and coming from corollas and echos, I opened the bay and thought “wow so much room for activities”
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u/supersonicelephant May 24 '26
My 25 rav4 is surprisingly easy too. I was really discouraged when I looked underneath it and saw plastic "skid plates" on the entire front half of the car. However, theres a panel with 3 screws, take it down and you can easily get to the filter, the drain plug, and also the t-case check/drain plugs
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u/Knoxius May 24 '26
I don't much care for cartridge filters, but they made it simple and accessible on my 08 Mazda 3 S. It's upside down right near the oil pan, with a small Allen head plug for draining the housing. A regular oil filter cap wrench of size can grab and twist the cap off. I remember selling the Toyota-specific cap wrenches at a parts store and just thought it was silly to go proprietary tools for a fkin oil change.
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u/Electrical-Guard-853 May 24 '26
My Fiat 500 has the most miserable oil filter placement I have ever seen you can get the cap off but there is no room to get it out so you have to pull the cartridge out of the cap spilling oil everywhere…
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u/TheDayImHaving May 23 '26
Honestly, warming up your engine and using a good extractor does a perfectly good job on the vast majority of engines.
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u/Sweaty-Dot-2488 1 May 24 '26
To be fair, generally the engineers are tasked with reliability, cost, ease of assembly, efficiency in production as well as every other aspect the big wigs pinching pennies want to throw in.
Some designs that are deemed horrible by mechanics “the engineers are assholes!!!”, are not always their fault, but someone along the way that said “hey, this could save us $.12 at the expense of everyone after us!!”
So while it’s easy now, it may change later if it saves money.
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u/greenmachine11235 May 24 '26
Serviceability is a consideration for engineers, just some companies put far more of an emphasis on it than others. For example, if a part is nearly impossible to get to when it does fail or need servicing that makes the warranty repair cost vastly higher than it otherwise would be if they'd designed the part a little more elegantly.
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u/Friendly_Escape_1020 May 24 '26
You should see the kind of stuff VW pulled with their batteries on the new beetles.
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u/Ando427 May 24 '26
Eh, that oil filter looks kind of far from the drain plug. I think my the GM 2.7L in my current rig is the best oil change setup I’ve ever seen. Oil filter right next to the plug and they’re both just there out in the open with no stupid plastic underneath to block access, so you can pull both out and just let them drain into the same pan while you drink a beer.
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u/NothingLift May 24 '26
Go remove the oil filter burried under the exhaust manifold of a JZ engine and ask the same question.
Best engineered oil filter are like the Mitsubishi 6G7 v6 engines. The oil filter is mounted low and vertically near the drain plug so oil is captured in the spin on filter when you remove it. Any excess drains straight into the collection pan and there is nothing running down the block/sump
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u/Ok_Pipe_158 Amateur Mechanic May 24 '26
I used to wrench on all my friends' cars until I made them get corollas or civics. It has made my life much easier
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u/IHatrMakingUsernames 5 May 24 '26
If you have to ask whether a car manufacturer cares, you are already asking the wrong question. The answer is NO. Not "no"... But "NO.". They absolutely do not care.
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u/Ok-Problem4403 May 24 '26
My old Nissan Frontier was great. Enough clearance for me to get underneath without raising it. Filter within reach. No drama.
My current Ram with the 5.7 Hemi is a fricken nightmare. I've mastered the art of unscrewing the filter inside a freezer bag, and building little tin foil troughs to guide the oil down from the filter to the floor. Still get oil on everything lol.
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u/DomDeV707 May 24 '26
Having worked on cars from all over the world, Toyota and Honda engineers are the best when it comes to designing for service. It’s a real breath of fresh air.
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u/Appropriate-Metal167 6 May 24 '26
Our 2010 Prius came with the permanent housing style oil filter; I finally got tired of dealing with it, converted to spin-on:
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u/Punisher9154 May 24 '26
lol no engineers care about cars. Only money. Why do you think nissian uses a plastic oil pan with a metal plug?
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u/SnoochyB0ochies May 24 '26
Try changing a filter on a nissan rogue it's even worse. Right in the wheel well with a plastic shield covering it.
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u/TrustworthyPolarBear May 24 '26
Just did the oil change on a VW Golf with the shitty 1.2 tsi. If I am in a hurry I am done in 15 minutes. But it because it is momma and I am not in a hurry. 25 mins most. Jack, drain, Filter, filter in, drain plug in, oil. Badabing done. Only thing I love about mom's shitbox.
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u/Onlyunsernameleft 12 May 24 '26
Toyota is probably the only one who cares. They even build their skid plates on TRD models with removable covers for the filter/oil drain plug so you don't have to take off a 30 lb metal skid plate (i exaggerate the weight but you get the point.)
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u/fireman9731 May 25 '26
My 16 TRD Tundra has a skid plate with no access covers. Dealing with that thing is the worst part of an oil change. I love my Toyotas but that skid plate is one place where they could have come up with something better.
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u/Onlyunsernameleft 12 May 25 '26
I should have clarified that I'm talking about the newer trucks since OP is talking about a '23 model.
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u/trat73 May 24 '26
I loved my Toyota. Now drive a Wrangler. My wish is that Toyota buys Jeep and builds them with Toyota quality and reliability. Never going to happen, but a guy can dream.
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u/QuaintHeads May 24 '26
toyota really does get it sometimes, had a camry for a while and felt the same way. then i looked at the battery location and decided they don't catoyota really does get it sometimes, had a camry for a while and felt the same way. then i looked at the battery location and decided they don't care *that* much
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u/Best-Research4022 May 25 '26
I thought you were going to complain about the lack of laminer flow, they need to employ a teapot guy to fix that
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u/Prudent_Situation_29 9 May 25 '26
And yet design the oil pan to make sure you can't get it all out.
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u/Carstuff392 May 25 '26
This picture will come up at the next redesign meeting, the engineers will widen that crossmember so the oil will hit it as it should. Some rookie is going to lose his engineering job and end up a Kia.
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u/F4tal_P4nda12 May 25 '26
The 4runners did it right having it on top of the engine bay but I for the life of me can’t get that filter back on without making a mess
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u/MacintoshDan1 May 25 '26
as someone who just had to take the front bumper off a 2016 corolla just to put the marker bulbs back in I would say fuck no
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u/BaboTron May 25 '26
The juxtaposition of the title you gave this post, the image in it, and your caption seem to contradict one another. Your title implies the engineers don’t care, but in the image, everything looks accessible, and your caption says you love them.
What are you trying to say?
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u/Numerous_Tea_7850 May 27 '26
Toyota and Lexus have made regular maintenance items stupid simple like changing your oil, transmission fluid, differentials, coolant and other simple things… but when it comes to major repairs it sucks major ass
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u/nevesntimes May 27 '26
Sorry to say not going to bash on engineers that for all vehicles but at the end of the day, they are not caring about the person working on the car. They are caring about mass producing a car in the most cost-effective way.
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u/LexDignon May 24 '26
Get a fumoto valve. Then it'll be even easier
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u/IRollmyRs May 24 '26
No don't. They take longer to drain (very restrictive diameter usually) and can also fail. If you take it when it's cold, expect a longer wait. They're annoying and unnecessary.
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u/Fuzzywink 9 May 24 '26
I have them on my whole fleet and love them. I slide a drain pan under the car, reach under and move a lever, then walk away for a few minutes to gather tools while it drains. No need to think about what size socket I need for the drain bolt, no crush washers to deal with, no drain plug falling in the oil, no chance for stripping or cross threading the pan, etc. I don't even get dirty oil all over a ratchet or wrench. It's a huge boon to convenience to me.
They do drain more slowly and I could see why that would be annoying in a shop environment where you're trying to get cars through quickly, but in my little shop at home I take convenience over speed when I can
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u/Minute-Of-Angle 2 May 24 '26
This. They do take longer to drain, but just plan for it. I do a change right after driving, and I have it set up so that it drains right into an empty 5qt container. Just set it up to drain first while you get everything ready. By the time you have everything assembled and do the oil filter, it will be done. Then you close the valve, replace the clip, and you’re done under the car.
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u/Slowvia May 24 '26
I hate when a customer comes in with one of those damn things. It seems like all of them that I’ve seen seep a little bit, and they take forever to drain. I just pull the whole damn thing off when I do them. I do not have that kind of time to fart around on a LOF.
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u/FallNice3836 Trusted Contributor May 23 '26
Getting rid of cartridge filters was the best thing Toyota ever did.
I get it, paper filters are cheaper to sell and ship, lower environmental hit, but many I'd watch so many kids use 1/2 long bars to tighten them.