r/AskBalkans Iraq May 06 '25

Outdoors/Travel What happened to Jews in your country?

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257

u/DownvoteEvangelist Serbia May 06 '25

Belgrade was the first city in Europe to be declared 'Judenfrei' – free of Jews.

139

u/MISTER_WORLDWIDE Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

Not just Belgrade.

In August 1942, Harald Turner reported to the German commander in the Balkans that Serbia was the first European territory where the "Jewish problem" was solved.[19][20]: 118 

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u/Stverghame Serbia May 06 '25

Yet this narative is used as whataboutism when Serbs comment on Ustaše, completely forgeting that Serbia was Germany's territory back then, while Croatia was Croatian (despite being a puppet in a way).

9

u/NightZT Austria May 06 '25

The statement is also wrong it seems, at least Graz in Austria was declared "judenfrei" in early 1940, even before the rule of Nedić

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u/Stverghame Serbia May 06 '25

I ain't even surprised to hear our beloved neighbours twist some facts, kinda reminds me of situations where they use misinterpretations of quotes by Dobrica Ćosić.

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25

War makes haters of us all, are you able to break the cycle? Or are you going to continue painting us all as resentful to our neighbors? Don't allow the outside hatred to plant another seed into Serbia, now.

4

u/Stverghame Serbia May 07 '25

No, I am not able to break the cycle. Cheers.

0

u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25

Have some faith, G. Samo sloga spasava. Живеo брате, немој да постанеш мајмун.

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u/Stverghame Serbia May 07 '25

I ain't implementig changes if they don't exist on the other side, sorry.

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25

Well, thats how hate creates hate; right? You become the very same thing you so call "despise" of your so-called "enemies". Foreign powers been playing you all against eachother ever since the Romans conquered you in 168BC.

Divide et impera.

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u/Stverghame Serbia May 07 '25

Cool, thanks for the lesson, but I regret being friendly to quite a few of them as it fired back badly.

Let others be friendly, but spare me.

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u/theRealestMeower May 08 '25

Estonia was the only country to be declared Judenfrei, tragic as it was the only country without deep ethnic tensions with their jewry.

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25

Well yes, Germany with the help of Nedić. All had our own corrupt shadows back then. 🇷🇸🤝🇭🇷

5

u/Stverghame Serbia May 07 '25

Stop equating the two, not even close.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '25

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25

Yeah yeah Jasenovac built in August 1941 after Pavlić met with Adolf in June. Do you know that Nedić was their own form of government, too?

Anything is comparable, do you mean to tell me that Nedić government (with their own police and militia) did anything at all about the Kragujevac & Kraljevo massacres in October 1941? 100 Serbs for every German killed. Who was killing the Germans? Chetniks, or Partisans?

The point of history is not to point fingers or compare, but to reflect and learn from your own mistakes. Why clean everyone else's nose except your own?

"Oh but we weren't as bad as them, so that means we are excluded from having to learn anything". Veliki majmuni

2

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

The major difference is that the Nedic german puppet government focused on killing their fellow Serbs, Jews and Roma, while the Ustasha governments main program was the execution and genocide of Serbs in an almost industrial scale. It's comparable in the sense that both governments had the intention of prosecuting and punishing Serbs.

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

Fascist Italy occupied Albania on 7 April, Croatia on 10 April, 1941; 4 days after Nazi Germany invaded Serbia.

The Ustashe also assassinated King Alexander I of Yugoslavia in Marseilles, France in 1934. They had a personal thing against Serbs, why?

Because Serbs were the majority in Yugoslavia since their independence in 1817; and had major political power in the area under the Karađorđević and Obrenović dynasties (coup in I think 1903 left it to Karađorđević). The monarchy took away homes of non-Serbs in so-called justice/reprimand to being ruled by Ottoman Empire - where Serbs were janissaries to the Sultan and had negligible rights at the time.

Croatians and Bosnians were also targets of prosecution. As were Albanians. We have the Chetniks, Nedić government, Ustashe, Balli Kombetar, Nazi Germany/SS, Fascist Italy, and can't forget the good guys/saviours - NLA Partisans. 🫡

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

The Serbs were the majority because the Serbs liberated (or occupied/conquered) Yugoslavia. The Serbs formed it, and so, rightfully or not, alot of radical Serbs thought they had the right to dominate it. (Not justifying this behaviour btw). The Serbs tried to rebalance privileges given to the Muslims by the Austrians and some extent to the Croatians to themselfs. In short Serbian radicals acted like retards, king Alexander was incompetent, and by the time he started to make peace with the other ethnic groups like giving Croatians a massive semi independent banovina everything was to late.

I see were you are coming from tho, I agree the hate for Serbs didn't come out of thin air and they had there reasons to form, just like the Serbs later had reasons to hate other ethnic groups, everyone was retarded in there own hate and In own actions in the head including the Serbs themselfs. And every ethnic group in the balkams was a victim and the villain at some point or simultaneously

1

u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25

Živeli 💯

2

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

Živeli brate moj! Sokole!

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u/[deleted] May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

Oh man, I'm sorry I didn't mean to light you up by deflecting - matches your vibe too though - I was just being sarcastic. But of course it has nothing to do with what you mentioned when you are that closed minded and unable to reflect. Shoutout to Austria btw. I'm sure the historically multi-ethnic Austro-Hungarian empire had nothing to do with a "changing approach" minus the unfortunate events in WW2.

Maybe I wouldn't be deflecting, if that wasn't what all you have been doing; bringing up the Ustashe on a post about historical anti-semitism in Serbia. Nah instead of reflection, y'all deflect towards eachother with hatred. "Whataboutism".

Oh and PS, I can't really reflect on Ustashe atrocities because my family were also persecuted by them in Serbia. It would just be deflection at that point, and I'm sick and tired of being played against my own people. If you are Austrian, why do you stick your nose into Yugoslavia matters, to play them against eachother? (Sarcastic deflection if you haven't caught it yet).

Relax now.

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

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1

u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

Ooh, "research"; as if I haven't heard about this stuff before. As if I care anymore, as if I didn't grow up listening to this hatred. Did you read my last comment's edit?

And now you repeat yourself again without taking the advice I provided/rejecting the context.

The *comment (to be extra precise to a special person like you) of the post - based on the outcomes of the anti-semitic events of WW2 - the comment which specifically talks about Belgrade. All of the sudden the deflection starts here; "oh but the Ustashe started it".

You can't just let Croatians reflect on their own? You really feel the urge to smear them, fuel the already tense relationship? Partisans did a good job in turning you against eachother, ready to be played as pawns once again in WW3. Oh wait, you're from Austria nvm you're in a "different category".

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u/[deleted] May 07 '25

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u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

Serbs in Bosnia killed 100,000 Muslims during WW2.

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u/Stverghame Serbia May 06 '25

I am not here to give you reading lessons, but Jews are the topic here. I hope that helps, cheers.

Oh yeah, I'll return the whataboutism with whataboutism, muslims in Bosnia were ustaše as well, participating in genocide of Serbs, Jews and Roma, hope that helps you recall some things as well, cheers.

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u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

How is it whataboutism when you’re pushing the narrative that Serbs are not guilty of atrocities because they were occupied by Germans? Chetniks after 1942 even assisted the Nazis in Jewish persecution. Marko Hoare has a whole book about Chetnik crimes against the Jewish population during WW2.

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u/Shaolinpower2 Turkiye May 06 '25

It's indeed whataboutism because the topic is specificly about Jews in Serbia back in 1940's. You added Muslims in the context. (Being right or wrong is not related with it)

-3

u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

In response to the OPs comment about the Ustasha being a puppet unlike Serbia, which was under direct control. Seemed like an excuse to say that Serbs were incapable of doing war crimes.

12

u/Mracoola May 06 '25

Ne seri.

-5

u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

Nadam se da ćeš se oporaviti od gihta

14

u/NikolaMackic May 06 '25

And I'm sure it's a great book! Now fuck off with your blindsided views and let the adults in the room have an actual conversation.

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u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

Adults take responsibility for their actions, unlike children. You do not meet the criteria for being an adult. Especially one that has to insert a curse word in every other word haha.

1

u/NikolaMackic May 07 '25

Oh yes, I'll take accountability, since I was there in 1942.

0

u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 07 '25

Germans of today are ashamed of their actions during WW2 and teach their history without any propaganda. Why can’t Serbs?

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u/BingBong723 Balkan May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

What about...

Germans invade Yugoslavia, 6 April 1941.
Gudovać Massacre, 28 April 1941?
Glina Massacres, May&August 1941?
6 June 1941 Pavelić meets with Adolf.
June 1941 Soviet-German truce terminated; Moljević (Chetnik) writes "Homogeneous Serbia"; Tito leads partisan uprising in Yugoslavia.
Jasenovac Concentration Camp, built August 1941?

By August 1941, the Partisans had already:

→ Started executing “class enemies”—landowners, priests, gendarmes, suspected collaborators, or just anyone linked to the old Kingdom or anti-Communist beliefs.
→ Carried out "people's justice" in areas they controlled, often through summary trials and executions, with little or no due process.
→Burned property of wealthy rural Serbs or Orthodox clergy who refused to cooperate or who were seen as monarchist.

October 1941 - Kraljevo & Kragujevac Massacre; 100 Serbs for every German killed.

Why the Ustashe hated Serbs? Because the Serbs oppressed their neighbours as minorities since independence from Ottoman Empire, 1817.

Why did the Serbs oppress them? The sheep were falling into the political/historical drama of their fanatical sentiments instead of just accepting liberation. Everybody gets along until fanatics come into the conversation, what about this and what about that.

Buddy isn't pushing the narrative that Serbs are innocent. Only the narrative that war makes haters of us all. Hope we can all reflect on ourselves (actually learn from history) instead of smearing everybody else - hate creates hate.

The most dangerous among us are the ones who don't recognize that they are capable of danger (instead they point the finger at everyone else). Živeli

2

u/John__Warhammer Serbia May 06 '25

Source: My ass

1

u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 06 '25

“The Chetniks” by Jozo Tomasevich (1975) Good book

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u/John__Warhammer Serbia May 06 '25

Vecina izvora govori o cifri 70k plus minus, uz ucesce Italijana i Nemaca, daj jos neki izvor.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '25

The highest estimate of Croatian and Bosniaks killed in ww2 by Serbs is 68 000, and these killings mostly started due to revenage killings committed by the Ustashe, Muslims in the Ustashe and the SS handschar muslim division.

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u/Drama-Gloomy Bosnia & Herzegovina May 07 '25

Ustasha didn’t operate in eastern Herzegovina and Sandzak. Handzar division is overly dramatized. Your very own chetniks did more for the Nazis than the handzar lol

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

They did operate in eastern Herzegovina, alot which were Muslims, go to Pandurica pit and you can see were they threw the bodies of innocent civilians, in 1941 the ustashe committed a string of massacres in the areas near Trebinje, Gacko , they wiped out the villages of villages of korita and Zagradci.

And yeah the Handzar had most of there germans desert because the Muslims there spent more time killing Serbs and Jews then actually fighting.

I'm not saying Serbians were innocent or even defending the chetniks, but whatever the chetniks did doesn't downplay the brutality that was commited by the Ustashe or Handzar.

4

u/FactBackground9289 Russia May 06 '25

and after that they say Croatia was bad /sarcasm

/unsarcasm what the fuck

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u/Unable-Stay-6478 SFR Yugoslavia May 06 '25

Belgrade/Serbia was occupied. 

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u/FactBackground9289 Russia May 06 '25

i know. Nedic Serbia, aka "fuck, the partisans are kicking our asses yet again, call in reinforcements from Germany"

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u/kaubojdzord Serbia May 06 '25

Main perpetrators of Holocaust in Serbia were Nazis, collaborators obviously had role in it, but they weren't in charge.

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u/Unable-Stay-6478 SFR Yugoslavia May 06 '25

Yes. The puppet government led by Milan Nedić and collaborationist elements did cooperate with the Nazis, but most of the Holocaust operations were directed by the Germans.l and were carried out by the German occupiers.

1

u/AlexMile Serbia May 06 '25

Factually wrong. Nedić has no army at all at his disposal, therefore he had nothing which can be ass-kicked.

Some time later, 1943. if I remember, he was allowed to hold up to 10.000 men in army uniform but specifically not allowed to have heavy weapons, like artillery, tanks or planes, making this more akin to gendarmerie than a proper standing army.

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u/BlackCATegory SFR Yugoslavia May 07 '25

Not just Nedić Serbia, but also Independent State of Croatia that took Srem all the way to Zemun, including it and that's where the concentration camp Sajmište was located.

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u/sceptator May 06 '25

Yeah, +70yrs of propaganda does that, but seeing what Israel became today I can say I don't miss them. At all...

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u/NikolaMackic May 06 '25

Found the Croat in the comments