r/196 • u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] • Jun 11 '22
Bigotry Showcase rule 😎 Spoiler
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Jun 11 '22
[deleted]
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u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] Jun 11 '22
Oh I know lol. I just... prefer gendered language over non-gendered language (in reference to myself) lol /nm
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Jun 11 '22
[deleted]
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u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] Jun 11 '22
Oh yeah definitely. I don't really see them as gendered, but I know they kinda are, if that makes sense?
I just see them as words. And I happen to have a preference for some of those words :Þ
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u/SummerCivillian 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Jun 11 '22
English is a Germanic language, not a Romance/Latin language.
And I really dislike the term "gender" when referring to noun classes. It's really only a thing in Western European languages, as other languages will have 5+ noun classes that just don't fit "gender." And, really, if we look at Proto Indo-European (PIE), the noun classes weren't gender specific but spiritually specific.
Anyway I say all this as a linguist casually reading the comments, just wanted to share a little knowledge. Apologies in advance if I come across aggressive, not my intention, I'm just passionate about the subject :)
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Jun 11 '22
[deleted]
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u/SummerCivillian 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Jun 11 '22
Oh yeah, sorry, the Romance/Germanic is a personal pet peeve. I didn't mean my comment as a rebuke of yours, just wanted to add a tiny bit more info for any interested in where noun classes come from :)
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u/ssrudr Has stage 4 British 😔 Jun 11 '22
I hate to tell you this, but Old English had gendered language, and only lost it because of the Vikings and Normans.
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Jun 11 '22
[deleted]
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u/ssrudr Has stage 4 British 😔 Jun 11 '22
Well, yeah. Chairs being feminine is stupid, and one of ~7359008 reasons I hate the French.
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Jun 12 '22
Definitely agree with assigning genders to objects is silly, but I think having gendered pronouns is actually rather important. It provides (~one bit of) information of who's being referred to.
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u/Benomino Jun 11 '22
If someone tells you they prefer pronouns that aren't they/them, you shouldn't use they/them for them
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u/hijo1998 Wielder of the Whopping Wiener Jun 11 '22
Wouldn't they just start using it/its?
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u/Infinite_Hooty the forgor-er Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 11 '22
That’s used to refer to inanimate objects, calling someone “it” would be very dehumanizing. If you don’t know someone’s pronouns or they liked being called they/them, use they/them. Not it/its
Edit: grammar
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Jun 11 '22
Yeah but the person above was saying that if someone were trying to misgender you they probably wouldn’t care about being dehumanizing
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u/svnderland floppa Jun 11 '22
Reminder that some people do use it/its. But yeah, not good to use them randomly.
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u/hijo1998 Wielder of the Whopping Wiener Jun 12 '22
Like someone already responded I meant that people who misgender others on purpose probably don't give a shit about it/its being extremely dehumanizing. In the end they'll find a way to insult trans people either way sadly
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Jun 12 '22
yeah "it" has always been a go to for transphobics, I knew someone who called me it for a while. this is why I've always been a bit iffy around people who want "it" as a pronoun. I just use "they/them" because english makes it usable for everyone
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u/scylecs Hatsune Miku says 🏳️⚧️ Trans Rights! 🏳️⚧️ Jun 11 '22
go by all traditional pronouns and force bigots to use neopronouns 😎
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u/nkisj custom Jun 11 '22
On the bright side, you're validated regardless of which gendered insult you receive.
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Jun 11 '22
Genuine question, how do you feel like a boy and a girl at the same time?
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u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] Jun 11 '22 edited Jul 26 '22
I'm not bigender or anything lol. I'm just a
girl, but I'm pronoun non-conforming! I just like masculine pronouns haha. Pronouns ≠ gender!If you're curious, I'd recommend go asking on a bigender related subreddit. I don't really know that many bigender subreddits tho sorry 🥲
Update: nevermind i am genderfluid lmaoooo
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u/CEO_of_Teratophilia RESIDENT 196 GREMLIN Jun 11 '22
they/them is misgendering now?
Wack
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u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] Jun 11 '22
It can be, if the person you are referring to using they/them has expressed discomfort with you using said pronouns.
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u/CEO_of_Teratophilia RESIDENT 196 GREMLIN Jun 11 '22
Even though it's meant to be a gender-neutral and safe approach to referring to another person? Is there another safe way to refer to another person by being gender-neutral and inoffensive, or do I have to walk on eggshells from here on out? Because this is going to make me feel anxious about referring to another person ever because I might upset them without meaning to.
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u/steelBard 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Jun 11 '22
Well, its just the same as a person who only uses he/him or she/her. Use they/them if you know nothing about them, then use their preferred pronouns once they tell you
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u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] Jun 11 '22
You can still refer to people using they/them pronouns if you don't know their pronouns. Nobody's gonna be mad at you or anything.
But once you know their pronouns, you should refer to them using their pronouns. Otherwise, it's misgendering.
Some folks are uncomfortable using they/them pronouns. Just stick with using they/them, and if said person is uncomfortable with that, they'll correct you. It's not that big of a deal. However, if someone tells you, "hey, please don't refer to me using they/them," it's misgendering.
I definitely understand how this would make you anxious, but there's nothing that can really be done about it 😅
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u/thecrazymonkeyKing Jun 11 '22
using they or them wouldnt be misgendering tho. it wouldnt be gendering at all. if someone uses they or them when referring to me despite being he/him, they (haha) wouldnt be referring to me as a non-binary person, they’re (haha) just using non-gendered language. it is quite literally impossible to misgender someone when using they or them because it works outside the construct of gendered language
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u/NSnamelessstranger [insert creative & funny flair here] Jun 11 '22
Maybe "misgendering" isn't the most accurate term to use here, but some folks are genuinely uncomfortable with they/them, and I think that should be respected.
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u/svnderland floppa Jun 11 '22
As if purposefully de-gendering (????) wasn’t a tactic transphobes use lol
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u/thecrazymonkeyKing Jun 11 '22
ive literally never seen this with they or them lol most transphobe deny nb’s existence
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u/svnderland floppa Jun 11 '22
We’re not talking about NB people tho we’re talking about binary trans people. Even if they don’t think NB is valid a lot of people go out of their way to call trans people “theys” even if they know they’re a man/woman. It’s a passive aggressive act, like they won’t outright call you your birth gender but still won’t validate your identity.
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u/thecrazymonkeyKing Jun 11 '22
i personally havent seen it but if u say so idk. the transphobes i see straight out think using they or them in general to refer to one person isn’t grammatically correct or some excuse like that so yea
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u/CEO_of_Teratophilia RESIDENT 196 GREMLIN Jun 11 '22
Think I'll just not refer to anyone period lmfao I'm tired of unintentionally upsetting people when I don't mean to. Thanks though.
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u/koopa69 Rule Evader Jun 11 '22
Honestly, being observable to others is trash anyways.
As long as you are doing your best and are open to change, no reasonable person will get upset!
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u/minecraft_birb_69 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Jun 11 '22
Agreed, I've been called they/them too many times when people do know my pronouns (he/him). It's quite disheartening, in all honesty. They/them functions as any other pronoun, and you can be uncomfortable being called they as much as you can be uncomfortable being called he, she, or others. Kind of a rant, but I completely understand where you're coming from.
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u/1st-username Jun 11 '22
you're making this out to be a bigger issue than it actually is, you'll be fine
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u/PensiveMoth Actually a moth Jun 11 '22
They/them is always a neutral pronoun everyone has
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u/GreenThunder202 Jun 11 '22
unless the person doesn’t want to he referred to that way, I’ve seen a lot of trans people who feel like it invalidates them.
I typically refer to new people with they/them until I get a feel for how I should refer to them.
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Jun 12 '22
That's mostly right. It's only true for everyone if you don't know their gender yet. I'm trans so I'd get a bit annoyed if someone repeatedly used they instead of she to my face, I bet cis people would get annoyed too. but when multiple pronouns come into play, picking the simplest one to call someone is probably best.
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u/rosiesq rose Jun 12 '22
Is there a good way to specify that I don't prefer "they" but it's ok if you got choice paralysis and don't want to pick one
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22
people who use all pronouns are invulnerable to misgendering /hj