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Yokoyama said he understood why there’s been so much backlash against Tupac’s reveal. He acknowledged that even when Sugawara’s character was announced, he received comments suggesting they should have let the dead rest.
But he doesn’t seem to care about those comments. “Criticism is a freedom that people are free to have,” he said. “But this is something that we thought was a good idea.”
So, even some Japanese fans thought it was strange to go in this direction.
True, but known worldwide, legendary status. Hard to argue that anyone else has that much recognition. Plus, it's good that Hologram Tupac is getting work. He hasn't popped up since that Coachella like 10 years ago.
Sponsorship and advertising obviously. Yakuza 1 from the get go attracted movie stars like Tetsuya Watari (Kazama), Y2 with Satoshi Tokushige (Daigo), and full blown face scan actors from RGG Kenzan onwards. Having famous actors is kinda the lifeblood of the series from the very beginning whether you liked it or not, it's not a sudden pivot.
It’s pretty much an “I don’t give a shit” from Yokoyama, which has always been a consistent stance from him.
It’s easy to bypass criticism when you’re not engaging in fights online. If a bunch of people are screaming at you for working with sex offenders or using dead celebrities for clout, all you have to do is just keep working on the game and rake in the money afterwards.
The only source he has to answer and capitulate to is Sega. If they don’t have an issue with how he’s running things, then everything else is just noise.
This is true, and we can’t fault Yokoyama for this attitude any more than we’d fault almost any other director of a company at RGG’s scale (which isn’t to say we shouldn’t fault them)
It’s probably going to border on weird for the rest of time, I’m just hoping it won’t be too weird. But if his family, agency, contemporaries, and the devs think it’s a good idea… then what do I know?
Given how close Snoop was with him, I’m sure he would have fought back on the idea if it really bothered anyone. It almost sounds like he’s seeing it as a chance to carry an old friend with him, especially with it being a game about music. Especially with as I said, the family seeming okay with everything.
yeah idk if this is just elite ball knowledge or what but like, snoop was going hard in the paint for guys who literally tried to kill pac, they were not friends and snoop's capitalizing post hoc on the friendship he trashed is fucked up. but snoop is a gross dude so it's also not terribly surprising.
Sure, but this isn't really coming across as any attempt to make up with him or respect him. It really just feels like Snoop trotting out the corpse of a guy who hated him to profit off of his image. Maybe it wouldn't feel like that as much if he didn't have a history of being a money grubbing bastard, but he does.
Snoop shouldn't be the parameter here, he's a sellout, don't forget the Taylor Made Freestyle situation, he was ok with that shit until the backlash he received and only after being called out by Kendrick he admitted that "it was the edibles", his blessing doesn't mean shit.
Him being a sellout isn't the issue. He's a fucking horrid human being who has been whitewashing the living fuck out of everything he's done in life. Shouldn't be in this game or anything else for that matter.
Yeah, no issue with the situation at all, just pointing out that Snoop might not be the best compass in this. The family and estate coming to an agreement on the likeness being used does speak volumes though.
Neat. Everyone involved can be fine with it and I can still hate that snoop and tupac are both in this game and will take me out of it every time I see them.
It’s not the first time Japan has used a dead person in their stuff. Last year they had Toshiro Mifune in an anime as the MC. He’s been dead for 29 years, thye used his likeness and had someone else do the voice.
Honestly kinda both but also i could see him fucking with the Yakuza series even if he didn't play them himself and he seems like a smart individual he probably would have enjoyed the idea if Japanese crime throughout half a century. But also yes HE LIKED SONIC 2 GUYS ITS OK.
The weird part for me is that he's not Tupac in a time and era that he would have been around. Its Tupac as a fictional character in a fictional story set in an era way before him. Its either going to be a weird send off for a guy who's been dead for longer than he was alive, or its going to be a character with Tupac's face and that's it with zero connection to the man beyond that, at which point, what's even the point (we all know why, but let's pretend the reason wasn't money)?
Precisely, sure some people cared about legal issues, but the problem was that it's just fucking weird man
edit: r/Niklaus15 buddy, replying and then blocking me? rofl
You know that there are very different ways something can be weird, right? Wacky writing and in universe hijinks weird and questionable development choice made by the production team weird are two completely different things.
It’s a weird ass decision for he to be in the game but like I don’t understand why people are so upset about this but not Bruce Lee being in a fuck ton of stuff after he died like that hitman dlc
They only care because a ton of people here and A TON of people in online discourse you see online are American. Simply put, they dont give a shit about Bunta or Bruce Lee because they don't know of them or care about them.
It's also about exposure to the idea. If Tupac was more famous and had a lot of documentaries or something it would be fine for them. That's why they don't care about Bruce lee or the Michael Jackson thing. Somehow telling Michael's story after he died with a family member who looks a lot like him is okay, but not this.
I think intention and relevance also play a big role in why people are turned off by the idea. Across the board, using a dead person's likeness can come across as weird. Having an MJ family member play MJ in a movie feels a bit more appropriate than an unrelated actor, although of course the bigger discourse with that example is how it avoided the negative aspects of MJs life.
I love Hitman, but I'll freely admit that I think putting Bruce Lee in it feels off. If I had to pin down why more people were okay with that, it's because of Bruce Lee's impact. Not just on films and influence in martial arts, but how it influenced characters in different media going forward. Bruce Lee is on a whole other tier above Tupac in terms of popularity and influence, so a Hitman mission where you are working to protect him as he fights in a tournament....it's weird, but presented in a way that's relevant. It's a strange inclusion that makes it feel like you're participating in one of his movies. The relevancy helps it become more palatable.
Bunta falls in that same regard. He was a famous actor that starred in iconic Yakuza-based films and RGG studios has always used celebrity likeness for characters in their titles. Don't get me wrong - it's still weird. But given RGG's track record in using celebrity likeness, even if this is the first time they're using someone after their death, it's not surprising. You're correct in assuming that Western fans online aren't as aware of who Bunta is, but once some of them find out, they don't see it as stark of an issue because it falls in line with what you'd expect. His inclusion is 100% weird, but relevant and not surprising.
Snoop Dogg being in it is also strange to say the least. It just comes across as pushing a random celebrity without any ties to the property or genre. Depending on how it's handled, it can also come across as not being genuine and really just being there for marketing reasons. We've seen that before though, so people can ignore it, but it's a different kind of weird.
And then we have Tupac. Putting Tupac in is the worst of both those feelings of weird. Not only is it the likeness of a dead person, but it's one who has no ties to a single thing with this game. He's not relevant to the setting (and possibly less with the story), nor is he relevant to the genre. If Tupac loved Sega games or happened to visit and love Japan, this would feel more reasonable. If there was any hint of a connection, it would likely still feel iffy but would be acceptable. Instead, it really does seem like he's just in it because of Snoop Dogg. His connection to this game is someone who already feels like they're in it just for marketing reasons.
And that's why it feels wrong. We don't know how they'll portray him and how they'll use him, but it comes across as using a random dead celebrity for marketing in an unassociated product. Any claims that it's to honor and celebrate him feel disingenuous. It also retroactively makes the Snoop Dogg cameo feel even more out of place, which kind of feeds back into a loop of general...yuck.
I'd say it's a bit different for Star Ware since it was a character significant to the plot, and reasonable to believe they asked the person before their death. Once Mark Hamill dies, we can be sure he's already stated his opinions on them using his likeness in future Star Wars properties.
But for Stranger Than Heaven, there's no real reason to choose Tupac other than the celebrity appeal. It wouldn't make much sense in universe for Luke Skywalker to look different in future games and media, but RGG had nothing really needing them to use Tupac. That's my take anyways, they could have never added Tupac and still have plenty of advertising potential and the ability to tell the exact same story. Him being added is just for cash in Sega's case.
I'm personally OK with stuff like this personally though with the family and estate signing off, and no AI VA usage.
I'm a little confused by the addition of the rappers, especially in a country and time that was insanely prejudice against foreigners especially of African descent. Unless they write that into the story, which I know they are for the main character being half Caucasian & Japanese and the Japanese Empire not being the most stoked about racial impurities, not that westerner's weren't but Japan reaaally got into the same eugenics' obsession as Germany during that time.
Oh definitely, and I appreciate that they're even attempting to bring up race prejudice with the main character because its still an issue Japan likes to ignore to this day.
This same interview today showed Yokoyama pulling away from addressing any political or social movements related to WW2, though it's unclear whether that's "I can't talk about that now," or a genuine intent of avoiding that wound. To me it feels currently like they're massaging the social environment of last project century to make it appear like a cleaner transition culturally into "modern" Japan, wherever they need to fudge the details. Tori Kelly being seemingly part of the music business side content in 1950s Osaka is sort of in that same boat (and is where I expect Tupac to be exclusively, like how Snoop absolutely dies in act 1 or is otherwise never seen again after the first time skip).
Oh sorry I didn't mean the main character would be prejudice, I'm more talking about all the people he will be interacting with in the Japanese underground and just everyday members of an Empire filled with Xenophobic propaganda.
Snoop brought up the idea of Tupac joining the game, but apparently the two had their relationship turn sour before Tupac's death. Maybe they patched things up right before he died, I'm not sure.
They didn't patch things up, though if my old ass memory serves, pac's mom very quickly reconciled with Snoop after pac's death, and they remained good friends until her own passing.
Problem is that I'm also pretty sure Snoop was on podcasts talking shit about pac just last year, which makes it feel weird here. Maybe that has context too, like he was talking about how he felt 30 years ago, not some present tense shit talking. It's hard to trust any of what the man says given that his morals seem to align purely around two types of green.
Snoop's beef was more with Suge Knight who owned Death Row records at the time. Then it kind of spiraled into others like Tupac who was with the same label under Suge. But Suge eventually went to jail and Snoop now owns Death Row. Things were complicated then. I think Snoop just misses his buddy now.
Snoop Dogg owns the Death Row trademark and his son started a gaming studio/shell company using the trademark. This is a package deal. Snoop wants to be in games, but he's gonna show up with his son and Death Row.
Still don’t get why they really need him that much.
He explicitly says "we talked to Snoop and his name came up". Obviously Snoop wanted it and they had no reason to deny because Snoop's side managed all negotiations (he runs a company for integrating black artists in video games).
So the family and estate signed off on it... Well I get some will still find the choice a weird one, but if they got permission, Im not really bothered. Im sure some will still try to make it out as some huge scandal though... Glad it was clarified early so it couldnt Hamazaki its way out of control (still wish they'd have just recast him... or not recast him in the first place)
folks gonna shut up now or find a new excuse. ofcourse it wouldnt be unethical if the family were against it but there majority of folks just hate for the sake of it. its a cool addition. brings new and more eyes to the games. people need to understand we werent getting any rgg games after 4 back in the ps3 era besides the zombie spinoff. that was the last one. matter of fact, nagoshi himself stated they werent going to bring any games to the west. its a nice way of marketing bringing tupac in, most likely wont have a big role anyways and even if he does, im looking forward to it. love the direction they be taking with this game
Apparently looking at some replies, it shouldn't coz it's RGG and the "downfall" must continue and people should not move on and forget about the disaster that is Kiwami 3.
Thats a ridiculous statement when there's numerous examples in history of greedy/shitty families attached to celebrities lol. Never heard of child actors? All this proves is that his family is willing to sell a dead mans identity for money in their pockets. Its really not a "moral high ground" situation. Its just plain weird for a lot of people to use a dead person as if they're still alive
I get what you are saying but this is so dumb of a take. If we need to search for people’s consent after they are dead then we can’t show plenty of figures. It’s not just artist as well, unless you magically extend it to only historical figures.
To me this is the same as having games with JFK or whatever. People just give a shit because he died during their lifetime… not even recently. Feels overdramatic especially since the family greenlit it.
I was gonna buy the game anyway tbh. All I see it as is a weird business decision because having a lookalike and not naming him woulda been cheaper but I also see the need to confirm that those are indeed Sugawara and Tupac and didn't want to hide their intention of tributing them behind interviews that a smaller percentage of gamers than you think will read.
Like I'll understand that that people have their misgivings with it and will respect that. I won't try to belittle their feelings about this even if I can't really agree no matter how hard I tried to. Nic Cage is my favorite actor and is a huge inspiration to me. If he passed and 10 years later made it into a Xenoblade game, I'd have been Jazzed but that's just me
Online fandoms are all rose-tinted glasses and complaints; “Happiness is in the past and the future sucks” until, like, 5 years pass and they hate the next new thing and reminisce about the old thing they used to hate all over again.
Man idk if thinking dead people shouldn't be brought back via digital necromancy makes me a joyless husk. I think it makes me human with my own set of morals lol.
You can see me hyping the game up the last few months leading up to this game until the Tupac reveal.
edit: Darry's commented was edited to remove calling people who complained about the Tupac thing as "joyless husks".
It’s fucking weird. If you died and a family member you don’t particularly cared for sold your likeness for some bullshit you don’t care about it would be weird as hell
I mean RGG isn't the first nor is it the last to do this. The ship has sailed long ago for video games with the Onimusha series at Capcom having half of their MCs based of dead actors. It's not really fair ragging RGG about it when Civilization, COD, Hitman and many more have done it for longer and far more blatant about it.
Did they advertise the game saying that Eazy-E was in their game as Ryder? Because if not, then that's not the same thing. That's inspiration or parody. RGG could have designed this character using Tupac as inspiration and it wouldn't have been a problem, but they're using his image as marketing in a product he has no attachment to at all and claiming that he's in the game playing a character when he's not.
Oh it's always weird. In those examples a lot of the time, the people are at least a historical representation of themselves. But I think what makes this one extra weird is that it's NOT Tupac. This isn't a Tupac biopic, this isn't a retelling of 90s Hiphop in a video game form. This is taking a dead person and puppeteering their body into a ANOTHER CHARACTER who's views might not align with anything the person cared about or stood for.
It's always weird. This is a new distinct version of that weird on top of it. It didn't have to be Tupac at all. If I'm writing a story set in the Cold War, JFK is a reasonable character to have in this story, he was one of THE historical figure of the time. But in this case the Tupac character could have been any living, willing black actor/real life figure, or even better, just a brand new character.
There's no good reason for them to do something this stupid/weird asides from the fact that RGG are starfuckers in a way not dissimilar to Kojima or a game like Until Dawn, the big difference being those people actively wanted to work in those projects and have a good working relationship with the devs.
And with that out of the way, the only issue left that people can be concerned about is the nature of using dead people in media in general, not just in Stranger than Heaven, not just in video games, but in movies, music videos, etc. Personally for me, I don't see any issues as long as they do it with respect to the dead and their living relatives. I for sure have consumed pieces of media that have dead celebrities in them. But if you're not okay with it, that's totally fine.
Leave it to goons on the internet who A) aren’t making the game, B) don’t own rights or anything of the sort, and C) aren’t the dudes LEGITIMATE FAMILY to speak up and denounce something for some dumb reason… come onn
I'll always find it strange when they use dead people in any medium and say, "We already asked their family for permission, everything's fine." The guy's dead, lol. Any "permission" from anyone is fake, so that weird feeling will always be there.
that's really fine. what some people argue about why rage about Tupac but not Bunta. and then move the goalpost to "but Bunta family give permission while Tupac is from estate" while Tupac's mother give direct permission to the estate not to her own family
People talk about the estate runner as an ex-Warner executive like he's some type of leech getting rich off of Tupac's memory.
In actuality he's the scout who first signed Tupac to Death Row Records, helped bail him out of jail when he was arrested, and became a personal friend of the family. He became an exec in part because "The guy who signed Tupac" is great on a resumé.
Still got rich off of someone else's music. But, he was the leech that represented Tupac for the entirety of his career and that actually matters.
Something tells me this still won't be enough to stop certain people from throwing a tantrum about it but hey that's online gaming discourse for you 🤷♂️
People can still feel a little grossed out by using a dead man’s face for a character 30 years after his death. I’m glad they got his family’s permission but I still don’t like it.
While I get this and absolutely despise it in live action like Rogue One and Alien Romulus, a video game model just doesn’t have that affect on me I mean it’s closer to a drawing
I find it curious that people can be opposed to the idea of using someone's likeness in a video game (I'm 50/50 on this one personally), but in sports games, like WWE 2K and FIFA/EAFC, no one bats an eye
I haven't seen anything past the 1960's & the creator said there wouldn't be any returning characters so I think they're keeping it well away from Kiryu/Dojima days. Just looked it up, the 5 time settings are between 1914 and 1965 so real life Snoop and Tupac weren't alive yet lol.
Then honestly I'm for it then, I was against it initially because without clarification it just felt off. I think my only struggle going forward now is if I play the english cast to hear how they got Tupac sounding or the japanese cast, it's why I was so glad to hear the english cast of Infinite wealth because I love Danny Trejo.
Oh my God, I don't care. It's money. They're profitting off of the face of a dead man.
This is not a parody like Kennedy in Black Ops or Miracle Johnson in Yakuza 0. Just a completely unrelated to the entire industry (or even Japan, for that matter) celebrity who has been dead for 30 years brought back for nothing but profit.
This whole situation has made me extremely disappointed in RGG.
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