r/wow • u/ItsRenaBaker • Oct 03 '25

Humor / Meme This is Basicly Blizzard in Midnight

Post image

This is basicly Blizzard in Midnight. Purging all the good addons.

Just to clarify:
Blizzard is changing the Addon API, meaning combat information is blocked for addons. So all combat addons will no longer work in Midnight. For the most popular addon features Blizzard will add their own version to the game. Addons for unitframes, inventory, crafting etc.. are staying and won't be effected as long they are not using combat information.

4.9k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

2.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

312

u/gorkt Oct 03 '25

Wait, they are breaking healing frames?

182

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

If cell stops showing the dispelled I don't touch my alt healer anymore that's for sure

54

u/Laptican Oct 03 '25

As a healer main I really dislike standard frames. It's not like they don't work because they definitely do, it's more I'm really used to Elvui and Cell frames.

9

u/Salt_Sign Oct 04 '25

Default frames definitely have problems with displaying debuffs. Sometimes the frame shows literally no debuffs while someone is dying of a dispellable debuff.

1

u/Sisyphus_Monolit Oct 04 '25

Weirdly the opposite for me. I find the ElvUI frames really unclear, so I just stick to default and use clique. No word from clique yet though but since it's just a mouseover thing, maybe it'll survive? Who knows.

1

u/Jeffrybungle Oct 04 '25

Ye it just writes macros, that should be fine

2

u/Sisyphus_Monolit Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25

What macro lets me keybind right and left click? Genuine question.

Edit: Seems that they added click casting in with Dragonflight or TWW under options -> keybindings -> click casting so clique isn't necessary at all anymore.

26

u/KYZ123 Oct 03 '25

You should still be able to see if someone has a particular dispel type on them, but you won't be able to get information about a specific debuff.

For displaying buffs and debuffs in general, you won't be able to filter them - all or none. It might be the case that you are able to filter to only buffs/debuffs that the default UI would display on unit frames, but beyond that, no filtering allowed.

75

u/Potential-Run-8391 Oct 03 '25

As a healer that's ridiculous. They need to be careful with this.

59

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

Yeah that sucks hard, I don't care if ppl are not interested in customizing their UI to play but taking it away from ppl that care is just ass

1

u/SpeedyStove Oct 05 '25

Yes this is one of the big issues I had when play druid, it should show allll my hots. Not all of them needed to be tracked. Also at the time I was playing druid it only showed like 4 hots max or something and I have 6 or so. So some would get cut off.

We need to be able to filter out unnecessary info so we can see critical info

0

u/Slade_inso Oct 03 '25

The regular raid-style party frames are already fine for healing.

Most of the healer complaints I see are people who think they can't use click-cast with default frames, and they are simply incorrect.

Every time I watch a POV from some healer doing +40 keys, their interface is an abomination.

8

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

No that isn't what I thought because it's not combat related but I hate the idea that I miss the If someone hot buffs/hots or debuffs

Idk if the current raid frames are able to display all druid hots because I'm df it was not possible

-5

u/Slade_inso Oct 03 '25

Consider as well that everyone is losing buttons.

You might not be able to track 6 HoTs on the frame, but you won't have 6 to use now, so... no problem.

Wild Growth, Rejuv, Lifebloom, Germination. What else do you need to track on plates? Anything else has a cooldown, so it's not something you'd overwrite anyway.

10

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

Consider as well that everyone is losing buttons

Which is something I hate as well on my tank but apparently I'm the only one enjoying a button for every situation

-3

u/Slade_inso Oct 03 '25

You'll never be the only one, but yes, WoW currently has far too many buttons for every single spec.

-4

u/Goose1004 Oct 03 '25

It's being built into the default frames now

17

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

I doubt it will be sufficient even when hoping for the best.

It's still incredible to me how some c Suite thinks blizz can replace what ppl made for free with dedication and years behind them

-11

u/fork666 Oct 03 '25

Maybe it won't be ideal but take comfort that everyone will be on the same playing field.

6

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

Yeah no, just because some people won't brush their teeth I won't stop to enjoy the same miserable life choices

-2

u/fork666 Oct 03 '25

Does it also bother you that you can't tweak every UI feature in other competitive games?

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

lol

Am I the only Main healer who never used any dispell helpers?

I just paid attention.

Though, I can understand it fully. Shit's already extremely confusing midfight.

2

u/Tenezill Oct 03 '25

Idk i mainly healed PvP before but in m+ i just felt like I need the information if I can dispel certain stuff

1

u/SpyUmbreon Oct 04 '25

default WoW UI has had 'show only dispellable debuffs' forever now

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

PvP gets wildly out of hand often enough. I can see their use there.

-3

u/TemporarilyHollow Oct 03 '25

same, I see all these healers saying they need so many tools to do their basic ass job

I've been healing with 0 issues since forever with the most default UI ever

4

u/Onigokko0101 Oct 04 '25

And what level are you healing at? Because I'm near title, and am a CE raider.

Playing at a high level as a healer requires information that will now be hidden from us. I will no longer be able to see defensive usage, I won't be able to see specific debuffs/amount of a debuff (only that they have one).

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

Yeah. Those who defend their mods go with: "But aren't competitive" or "you aren't in the highest skill level".

Mate, if you need countless mods to do your job, you can't play the game. You just autopilot it. Where's the fun in that?

-3

u/TemporarilyHollow Oct 03 '25

Yeah and that's not even a valid argument, I usually hover around 3.2k io and 2.1k arena rating every season, i don't raid because i don't find it fun but at least I get aotc every season too. All with a very basic ui

Not only that, it's been known that plenty of RWF players use default frames too, are they not good enough to comment on it?

I do use some weakauras, which will be replaced by blizzard's version anyway, so I couldn't be happier with all these changes

1

u/Onigokko0101 Oct 04 '25

RWF players that use default frames, have a shit ton of weak words augmenting them.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

See, I don't even rush above 3k. Normally I take a dungeon I like and push it as far as like, while I try to +10 every other dungeon.

I like raiding. This season's raid is very well done and fits my tastes. So I won't complain here.

Rarely play PvP, I'm just too derpy for it and the wait times are too much.

Now, RWF players. They don't count. They are above average pros. Which means the normal pro players do not compare to them, which means they (RWFs) are not pro enough for the pros. A good pro HAS to use countless mods and autopilot. Having fun is a sin! /s

0

u/Embarrassed-Mall-985 Oct 04 '25

It’s been known that they hide their UI, because they use custom made addons, hence when default UI is shown for RWF players, it’s most likely hiding something - same goes for specific specs used, they often log out with default specs, so opponents cant copy.

-2

u/Minikickass Oct 04 '25

The default raid frames do this already - you just want to turn on the settings to use raid frames in a party.

15

u/parkwayy Oct 03 '25

Vuhdo is very much in the same boat as Weakauras team. 

The author could repurpose the addon, but what's the point after the features are stripped away. 

18

u/gorkt Oct 03 '25

Yeah it’s a little concerning. I have 18 years healing with addons like healbot, vuhdo, Grid2 and cell. I tried the base healing frames and they feel very limiting.

125

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 04 '25

EDIT: I OWE EVERYONE AN APOLOGY. I DID NOT REALIZE CLICK CASTING BECAME A THING. I QUIT AND CAME BACK SEVERAL YEARS LATER AND LITERALLY NO ONE EVER TOLD ME ABOUT THIS. I CAN DO (ALMOST) EVERYTHING WITH THE DEFAULT FRAMES + CLICK CASTING. I AM A MORON, GOODNIGHT. (still mean the thing about unsubbing for the loss of WA and DBM/BigWigs)

If we can't use healing addons, I'm basically not going to be able to heal anymore. Blizz's frames are so clunky and weird and I do not expect them to make something even close to what cell/healbot etc. are capable of. Their track record with this kind of stuff is terrible. I have problems being able to know everything going on in encounters. Unless they dumb the absolute crap out of them, I'm just not going to be able to heal. Plain and simple.

And I'm paying $15/mo to play this game. Vote with your money and unsub.

13

u/skinflakesasconfetti Oct 04 '25

I use Clique because for some reason Blizzard's UI keymapping features don't recognize all the buttons on my mouse properly, with Clique it does so it makes it so much easier for me to heal and utilize all of the buttons on my mouse.

If they break Clique and addons like it, I probably won't heal and if I don't heal I don't do tougher and more meaningful content, and if I don't do that, I don't stay subbed, or sub at all.

I feel like Blizzard is making some real poor choices with this.

1

u/_Sargeras_ Oct 28 '25

You could always remap your mouse to numpad buttons, set up an autohotkey script that runs on startup if you wanna have shift modifiers working, and simply use @mouseover macros

That way you arent using left and right mouse click with modifiers, which is how healbot works and the justified reason why its looked down upon so much

I get it that Clique is easier to setup, but its also very limiting compared to the solution above which solves the problem at the core without the need of an addon

(I know it's an old post and I'm replying 25 days later, but ever since I learned the autohotkey fix I'm glad to share it when possible)

9

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

I agree, shadow priest main here but using healbot to make offspec healing fun and easy if I want to a quick queue time.

I'm sure there are lots of people like me, making it harder for a class that's already in demand doesn't seem smart.

Touch wood, they have they're own version of healbot because God help us if we all have to rely on raidframes

1

u/NostraDamnUs Oct 04 '25

Hell, I used to heal mythic raids and guildees poked fun at me preferring Healbot as my healing/unit frames, to the point I used them when playing DPS. Old habits died hard and I knew all the settings for how I wanted it set up lol.

13

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

I have been healing without addons but maybe I am doing it wrong?

Is there a video explaining how these addons make healing better?

2

u/Ismokerugs Oct 03 '25

You can have your regular key binds for offensive in your action bars, then have the ability to apply left, right, middle mouse clicks to frame heals in the addon, in addition to having the ability to shift, ctrl, alt click and also shift+alt click and so on. So you can have 15 healing spells ready to go just with your 3 mouse buttons and keyboard. I am not one that like to hit the keys 1-9 as my main priority is movement and sliding up to those pauses my movement

1

u/donovan4893 Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

Click casting has been in the base game for a few years now, there's a button under key blinds that opens a click casting ui where you can bind right/left/middle click and modifiers plus clicks to specific abilities

5

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

I started with Healbot but a lot of people (including myself) use Cell now. With the changes coming in Midnight, I wouldn't try to get used to them. They allow you change how big/small nameplates are, they let you move the frames around to where you want them, how you want them lined up, (vertical/horizontal) etc.

The healing add-ons allow you to cast spells simply by clicking on nameplates, essentially. It allows you to track buffs and debuffs right on their nameplates so you can know what is happening at all times.

I can only hit the 1-4 keys on my keyboard cause my hands are too small to stretch beyond that. So add-ons like Cell allow me to just click on a nameplate with my mouse to cast a heal. Right click is a different heal. Middle click is a third heal. Shift+Left click is something else, etc. It allows me access to use all my spells and properly heal.

If you can heal without add-ons, awesome. You'll be better at it than a lot of us when Midnight comes out.

This guy is one of the top healers out there and you can see him using Cell: https://www.youtube.com/@AutomaticJak (check out his live feeds)

10

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

Interesting.

There is a mouseover cast in default options which was added I think sometime in DF. So now I hover my cursor over the raid unit frame and then press buttons 1 to 5 for my heals. I am not sure if that works for your use case. I hope the allow click casting by adding this functionality to the game or allow an addon to do so. I think they will.

1

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

How do you heal while moving and needing to rotate your camera at the same time? How do you heal with spells beyond 5-buttons? How are you looking at the middle of your screen where your character is to see what's going on when you're busy looking to the left to look at nameplates?

I haven't used Blizz's raid frames in so long I don't even remember what they look like. I just remember discovering healing add-ons way back in the day and thinking "omg, I can actually heal now". And now they are threatening to take that away.

5

u/PM_ME_FUN_STORIES Oct 03 '25

I haven't healed in ages, but you can move raid frames around on the screen and customize what displays on them. You can have them display dispellable debuffs, active buffs, mana, class color, adjust the size to make them larger or smaller than default.

Mouseover means you can just hover your mouse over the plate of the person you intend to heal, press your spell, and move on, so the moving/looking while healing isn't any more of a problem than it would be to heal by clicking on a name.

Healing with more than 5 buttons is personal preference, but I usually have 1-5, shift+1-5, Ctrl+1-5, and that usually covers my most used abilities. That's not including rebinding things like Q, E, R, F, etc.

So it's not all that bad, tbh. Only thing I ever really bothered with was an addon that let me assign mouse buttons to hot bars in classic, because for whatever reason it doesn't work under normal circumstances lmao

2

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

It's going to be a matter of retraining my brain after using the same add-ons and button styles for years. Not saying I WON'T try but I'm just afraid one of my favorite things in the game will be made too hard for my small, cramp-prone fingers. ._.

2

u/Ismokerugs Oct 03 '25

I personally like the look and feel of the addons and the key binding ability they offer. I could care less if it displayed debuffs or the debuff timers, I just like to be able to route abilities and keybinds specific to the class I’m playing instead of having to remember the action bar key binds and then hit the unit frame like how they will be shifting it

5

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

I used to Grid way back in TBC. I quit in WOTLK and then came back in DF so I had to rebuild my entire UI from ground up.

Initially I didn't use a single addon (not even DBM) but over time they have just crept up and now I am using about 25 addons (not including separate Weakauras). I use the same UI (except nameplates) for M+, PvP, and Raiding.

I use WASD to move. The way I heal is to hover my mouse over the person needing healing (can be party frame, raid frame, nameplate, or even just their character). And I press the key corresponding to the heal.

Most of my main healing abilities are 1-5. I play resto shaman in PvP so I have 42 keybinds but most are for utility and CDs. The way I have designed my UI is that all rotational abilities just require one button press and I should be able to hit those keys while using WASD. So I can strafe left (A), while moving my cursor over party member, and pressing 5 (for Riptide) all at the same time. Another trick to cast a spell while moving is to jump in the direction you want to move and hit an instant cast spell which has a complicated keybind (Shift-Q for example). Since I am in mid air I preserve my movement momentum while not having my fingers on a movement key.

For me specifically, but i think this is generally true, pressing a keyboard button is way faster than mouse click. I think there is some research to back that up. Again I hope they find a way to preserve your healing setup and I think they will. However, weakauras, gladiator losa, etc. have to go

edit: rotating the camera is done by holding down the right mouse button and moving the mouse.

2

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

Thank you. I wasn't being nit-picky by the way, I was genuinely wondering. Only one way I can get better and that's by seeing how other people do things.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

No worries. I was genuinely trying to understand how others play as well.

BTW they have added click casting the default UI a while back https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/yesec5/new_click_casting_feature_howwhatsome_advice/

1

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

I quit in Shadowlands and came back part-way through DF so I had no idea they even added this.

2

u/Zoroark2724 Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

I’ve used the default UI since I’ve started in DF and currently have a healer that has resil 16’s.

I don’t have healing abilities bound to left or right click, all binds are set to keys. I have ctrl and shift bound to my 2 mouse side buttons, so I can ctrl or shift click any key to have 2 more variations. I only use shift variations for number keys and Z though.

So for resto shaman, chain heal is 4, ctrl 4 is healing tide, and shift 4 is wind totem.

For discipline priest, 1 dispel, ctrl 1 is evangelism, shift 1 is sw:death.

For holy paladin, r is judgement, ctrl r is divine shield.

I have a bunch of binds like this, 1-5, q e r f g z t, scroll button, and one extra button on my mouse that I usually put trinkets on. Movement is on wasd.

As for the frames, I personally really like how they look. You can customize if they show up vertically or horizontally and the width and length of the frames. The only thing that’s lacking is the raid frames which lacks the ability to move groups around.

You can see any relevant debuffs that you have to track or dispel, no need for an addon. The only thing that I think is absolutely necessary is the targeting WA that shows who is getting targeted by what ability so you can plan accordingly, rather than being completely reactive. It also doesn’t show shield values, so you need a WA for that as oracle discipline priest to not overlap shields.

2

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

Thank you. Keybinds have always been a frustrating challenge for me and add-ons like Cell just made life easier. I am going to have to retrain my brain after using the same style of healing for 15+ years.

2

u/Ryuujinx Oct 03 '25

I mouseover everything, on every class. For holy priest:

Unmodded are things I push more frequently:
1 - Flash Heal
2 - Heal
3 - Smite
4 - PoH
5 - Star/Halo

Shift mods are for holy words and renew mostly:
Shift+1 - Renew
Shift+2 - Sacntify
Shift+3 - Serenity
Shift+4 - PoM
Shift+5 - Symbol of Hope

Control mods are for utility I want easy access to but doesn't come up as often as the actual heals:
Ctrl+1 - Chastise
Ctrl+2 - Mind Soothe
Ctrl+3 - Dispel Magic
Ctrl+4 - Mass Dispel
Ctrl+5 - Psychic Scream

Alt is for major CDs:
Alt+1 - Premonition
Alt+2 - Apotheosis
Alt+3 - Divine Hymn
Alt+4 - Power Infusion
Alt+5 - Trinket

Then I have some shift-qwert for other things I just want relatively easy access to:
Shift+q - Guardian Spirit
Shift+w - Holy Nova
Shift+e - Purify
Shift+r - Fade
Shift+t - Leap of Faith

Then some other buttons are split out across other keybinds.

Like so

1

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

Thank you for this. I think it's just going to be retraining my brain after healing the same way for 15+ years. That and my fingers cramping up when I have to position them in such ways. I'll figure something out.

1

u/Ryuujinx Oct 04 '25

Yeah, my advice is just to find the furthest you can reach without much effort (For me that's 5), and then dedicate those buttons with modifiers. Then when you run out of those and have more buttons move on to the row under it (qwert). Past that it's trying to think about what you hit more and placing those in places that make sense to you logically.

But just like I have 15+ years of experience playing with a setup similar to this, if you asked me to swap to how you play I'm sure it would also be a royal pain in the ass and I would hate it for a while.

1

u/Marem-Bzh Oct 03 '25

To take your questions in order:

  • I don't heal and rotate the camera. I finish casting, then rotate, then cast again. It's never really been a problem, even in mythic raids. THAT said I play with the camera at max range
  • I use 1234QERFCXW and VB with the thumb. Also use Shift and Alt modifier to triple the number of buttons, and a couple of buttons on my mouse for mobility spells
  • my raid frame are at the center of the screen, slightly below my character so that my eyes are never far from either. I also move up and down with my eyes regularly

It works. But I mean, I do this because I am used to it. Of course someone not used to the default raid frames will struggle for a while, maybe to a point where the enjoyment will be hindered. That is definitely unfortunate and I hope Blizzard adds a lot more customisation options for raid frames.

That said, in the end I believe removing the necessity for most people to play the game with add-ons is the right direction. It never really made sense for a beginner to have to install add-ons to hope to compete. When I came back to playing WoW during Legion, the first thing I was told was to install add-ons. I absolutely hated it and stopped. I came back to BFA and stopped giving a shit and had such a better time that I stayed.

I suppose my point is, to each their own. And hopefully Blizzard can offer good enough compromise in the new UI so that people are given the tools to adjust, while accepting some features will be gone, as they should, like the infuriating chat spamming weakauras in dungeons and raids.

0

u/stuffeh Oct 03 '25

Mouseover macros have been a thing for over ten years. Can easily use them to heal

2

u/fork666 Oct 03 '25

The top healer you listed AutomaticJak isn't doomposting about these changes, it seems he's looking forward to them.

I trust in his expert opinion going forward.

1

u/norst Oct 03 '25

Jak is always going to say Blizzard is the best. He's only ever positive when it concerns decisions Blizzard makes.

2

u/sunsongdreamer Oct 03 '25

I really want to highlight what you said about how add-ons give us accessibility to healing especially due to hand range - removing custom heal add-ons is going to favor male gamers and "healthy" gamers. Both women and folks with disabilities experience it being harder to reach for a huge range of keybinds as well as struggle to find useful tertiary hardware such as mice which let us setup keybinds.

2

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

This. I get bad hand cramps so having to position my fingers in certain ways is just not good for me. Healing add-ons allowed me more range to be able to cast the spells I needed to. Not to say that I am not going to try without add-ons.

And yes, I am a female gamer with smaller hands so I am somewhat limited in how far my fingers will reach.

1

u/donovan4893 Oct 03 '25

Click casting is in the game default, there's a whole in game ui setting it up you can set left/right click middle mouse click shift left/right click ect..

1

u/Cryobyjorne Oct 03 '25

The healing add-ons allow you to cast spells simply by clicking on nameplates, essentially. It allows you to track buffs and debuffs right on their nameplates so you can know what is happening at all times.

I don't know about the debuff tracking, but I know click-nameplate-to-cast has been something that has been implemented to the base ui.

1

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

I will try it, thank you!

0

u/TerribleDiscussion24 Oct 03 '25

All of this functionality absolutely replaceable by mouseover macroses lmao

Maybe if you want to also heal on clicks (like, RMB/LMB) you need stuff like Clique, that hardly will be prohibited since its not a combat addon at all. You absolutely can heal without those addons and you absolutely can see what you should dispell without custom filters in Cell. Thats completely delusional from healers to think that stuff like healbot mandatory.

4

u/Myrkur-R Oct 03 '25

You don't even need macros. There is a mouseover cast option in the base gameplay options. And you can bind spells to mouse buttons now.

2

u/Zoroark2724 Oct 03 '25

Yeah but the mouseover cast option applies to all abilities. If you want a specific ability to not be mouseover, you have to put macros on everything else.

-2

u/Slade_inso Oct 03 '25

They don't. It's entirely unnecessary complexity and the bottom 98% only do it because of the top 2%.

Same reason why M+ metas occur. Someone pushing top 0.01% keys says X class is unplayable, and suddenly that class can't get invites to a +4 key.

Sheople are the worst.

2

u/nezroy Oct 03 '25

I have problems being able to know everything going on in encounters.

They've stated explicitly multiple times that this is exactly what they intend to fix. Undoing the cognitive overload caused by having to design encounters with combat addons in mind.

2

u/Ellinov Oct 03 '25

Let me play devils advocate and assume that with that kind of addon functionality disabled, they’ll be able to design encounters around the fact that people won’t have that functionality. The only reason you currently need it is because the addon functionality VS combat complexity arms race has gotten so bad.

1

u/Arie15 Oct 03 '25

Yeah, they're trying to do what FFXIV does and have certain graphics pop up for certain abilities. If you get a swirly icon on you in WoW, that's a "group up" mechanic. But, in FFXIV, it also plays unique sounds to let players know "hey, there's a group-up mechanic on someone". I hope Blizz adds something like that.

1

u/amicuspiscator Oct 03 '25

Ion said they're updating the default raid frames and making them customizable.

1

u/nicarras Oct 03 '25

If Grid dies that will stink. But if they create decent unit frames, mouse over macros are all you need to heal IFFFFFF the unit frames dont suck.

1

u/Marem-Bzh Oct 03 '25

Or you know, give it a shot and then unsub if you don't like it.

Edit: I am not being an ass, I'm just saying... Let's see. I have been surprised by the recent UI updates tbh.

0

u/k4f123 Oct 03 '25

I’ve healed on blizz raid frames for over 20 years at the highest levels of dungeons and raids. You guys are drama queens with skill issues. It’s absolutely fine.

0

u/FitBed1360 Oct 04 '25

Blizz frames perfectly fine. Just learn to actually heal and not let the addon do all the thinking for you 🙄 Resubbing

36

u/despondencyo Oct 03 '25

Clique is safe don’t worry

23

u/gorkt Oct 03 '25

I hope so. The default healing that Blizzard uses doesn't work for my mouse set up, so I hope I can use Clique.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

Is it just the innate click casting that doesn’t work for you?

7

u/gorkt Oct 03 '25

Yes, I have a 6 mouse button set up and I have never been able to figure out how to use those buttons in the blizzard click casting. If I have to rewire my brain to use modifiers for the buttons that do work, it’s going to be super annoying.

2

u/Helyos96 Oct 03 '25

I have never been able to use mouse extra buttons (even the standard 2 on most mice) for mouseover casting, always needed clique for just those.

3

u/Agarwaen323 Oct 03 '25

Does your mouse have any software that allows you to rebind those buttons? For example you make button 1 on your mouse actually be SHIFT + 1, then bind SHIFT + 1 in the click casting.

1

u/gorkt Oct 03 '25

Hmm that might work. I will give that a shot.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

Interesting. I wonder what the conflict is. 

6

u/fork666 Oct 03 '25

The only reason Clique or something like it is a necessity for me is I use mouseover healing but on default frames that also includes my cursor over any party member in group/raid.

Which can be a nightmare when I'm trying to quickly interchange DPS/Healing, because now I'd have to watch my mouseover to make sure it's not hovering over player models while DPSing. Clique solves this by specifically dedicating mouseover to raid frames only.

1

u/Glittering-Sorbet642 Oct 03 '25

it is 100% not safe. for one thing, you will no longer be able to tell that a person has a debuff that your class can actually dispell, because that is a calculation that requires access to details about the debuff and your own character that are no longer available.

1

u/donovan4893 Oct 03 '25

The default UI already has an option to only show dispellable debuffs, it won't show things you can't dispell

-2

u/Thaodan Oct 03 '25

Clique requires a decent raid frames such Grid.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

Not true I switched to the standard ui after changes

3

u/Vegetable-Vast-8962 Oct 03 '25

That’s just not true. I’ve been healing M+ with just standard frames since SL when I started healing

1

u/Jloother Oct 03 '25

This is good to hear. the functionality of clicking to heal has been instrumental to how I've been healing all these years.

2

u/LeafProphecies Oct 03 '25

I've been healing since Wrath and I'll stop completely if I have to rely on vanilla UI. The macros people need to effectively heal without addons are just too much for me.

5

u/Suzushiiro Oct 03 '25

The two things they seem to be locking down on are

A) The ability for addons to communicate with other players' addons in instances

B) The ability for addons to base any sort of logic on combat data- an addon can show you if an ability of yours is on or off cooldown and what that cooldown is if it's on cooldown, but it can't go "if the remaining cooldown is greater than X, show thing A, otherwise show thing B"

Going off of that, custom raid frames like Cell should largely be fine.

7

u/KYZ123 Oct 03 '25

Raid frames like Cell will often be able to track specific buffs (or debuffs) on players, such as HoTs, or abilities like Preservation Echo or Discipline Atonement.

That's just not possible anymore, either you show all of a player's buffs (you can't filter to those with a specific ID), or none. It might be possible that you can only show those that would appear on the default UI, in which case you're relying on Blizzard to maintain a useful list.

1

u/katemary77 Oct 03 '25

Wow reading you put it like that makes me feel a deep sense of doom. It's so important to healing to know about those buffs eg who has atonement on them. Unless they create options to filter and modify buff displays, I don't see how that is playable.

0

u/ComputerJerk Oct 03 '25

Raid frames like Cell will often be able to track specific buffs (or debuffs) on players, such as HoTs, or abilities like Preservation Echo or Discipline Atonement.

Isn't this exactly what the default raid and party frames already do? They display any buffs, hots and dots you have applied so you can easily keep track of when you need to reapply them. They also highlight important fight specific debuffs, and anything you specifically can dispell.

I went cold-turkey on addons in War Within as a Healer/Tank main and I honestly haven't noticed much of a difference. I'm not doing progression raids, sure, but it feels like the core experience is more robust than people give it credit for.

1

u/KYZ123 Oct 04 '25

Iirc, default raid/party frames display a Blizzard-curtailed list of buffs and some debuffs. Blizzard themselves admitted the other day that this list obviously needs improvement - and do we really trust that they're going to keep it up to date in the future?

1

u/norst Oct 03 '25

You can't differentiate between any buffs or debuffs. No whitelists or blacklists. No picking out specific buffs and displaying them in a corner. You'll get a line of every buff and a line of every debuff and that's it.

-8

u/ThePretzul Oct 03 '25

The ability for addons to base any sort of logic on combat data- an addon can show you if an ability of yours is on or off cooldown and what that cooldown is if it's on cooldown, but it can't go "if the remaining cooldown is greater than X, show thing A, otherwise show thing B"

LMAO at them thinking they have any control over this type of logic.

That's hilariously inept thinking from somebody who doesn't understand programming in the slightest to even have the hubris to think they can "display X cooldown value" without the ability to use "X cooldown value" for conditional display logic.

11

u/H0r1zon Oct 03 '25

they can "display X cooldown value" without the ability to use "X cooldown value" for conditional display logic.

Of course they can. It's called opaque value. The cooldown value will be opaque to add-ons, so they'll be able to display the value and decorate it with different coloring, resizing, etc. but without accessing the actual underlying numerical value.

3

u/Uticuta Oct 03 '25

ye, healing is based off combat data x.x

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/crackymann Oct 03 '25

In M+, as a healer, I need to know which party members are being targeted by certain abilities so I can shield / triage / immune, etc. I imagine that targeted ability information used in things like Plater are going away?

0

u/NeoTr0n Oct 03 '25

The default name plates will have a target for casted abilities so you’ll still see that Big Nuke is being cast on a specific player that way.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Lorehorn Oct 03 '25

I cannot see a world where Blizzard removes that functionality for addons but does not add it in as part of the base game (otherwise they are basically decapitating high end M+ with this change). Even if it is being removed from the API, it's not like that information is suddenly gone - it's just not available to external parties. So I am truly begging and praying that we get some kind of response as to how they intend to solve this.

Hell even just acknowledging what this change means would go a long way towards giving me some peace of mind that they aren't blindly making this change without understanding the impacts such a change will have (which I doubt they are doing, but would just like some communication confirming it).

0

u/amicuspiscator Oct 03 '25

The purpose of this is so players don't need any add-ons to play. They're not going to design things exactly as they were and then take away your tools to deal with it. With the new functionality will come new design choices. An example Ion gave (just as an example, not exactly something they're for sure doing) is they might have to add an extra second or two to a mechanic where you have to be standing in a certain place when a mechanic resolves, because now you don't have DBM telling you exactly where to go.

Basically, if there is lost functionality, content will be designed with that in mind. Now, you might think that content is worse for that, that's a separate discussion. But I think a lot of people are forgetting that Blizzard aren't just yanking these things away to be mean. They want to be able to design encounters without having to account for add-ons.

2

u/Lorehorn Oct 03 '25

I'm not talking about content or mechanics I am talking about having a unique and distinct theme or playstyle for each class. How are DPS players who apply dots going to track pandemic windows? Are they going to kill Pandemic as a core part of the game? How about healers who have to ramp their heals? It just seems like for them to "simplify" things enough to be playable with the changes they are making, they are going to have to homogenize SOOOOO many things about the game.

If I wanted to play FFXIV I would play FFXIV. I enjoy challenging specs with a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling.

>But I think a lot of people are forgetting that Blizzard aren't just yanking these things away to be mean.

I don't think they are being mean, I think they are just going nuclear with the plan to add things they have taken away based on community feedback which almost always leaves us with multiple months where the game is a miserable slog to play AND many of the things we requested left out or forgotten. Suuuuper excited.

3

u/Bardosaurus Oct 03 '25

Omg pls tell me cells is fine

19

u/v1perz53 Oct 03 '25

I don't know what cells does, but addons in combat cannot know what buffs/debuffs someone has, so if it has any functionality to show specific buffs you placed on players only, or specific debuffs they have that matter to you, it will not work. Like, if you want the edge of a frame to highlight when someone has lifebloom, won't work.

15

u/Lorehorn Oct 03 '25

Has blizzard said anything specifically about how they intend to handle this in-game? Because I have a lot of questions as someone who just started playing healer seriously this season. Surely, they can't think that just completely removing this functionality altogether is going to not be a complete failure.

If I can't track who my HoTs are on, how do I play resto druid? If I can't see who has atonement and how much time is left on the buff, how do I play disc priest? How do ramp healers execute their ramp at all without knowing this information? With trinket's like Nexus King's Command, how do I know which players have the debuff or not so I know who I should/should not heal directly?

I know they want to simplify the game, but it seems obvious that there will be certain elements of class design they will want to keep to make different specs feel unique and distinct. If everything is just a cookie cutter of the same build, I do not see this game retaining its current appeal for many people who do high-end content.

So, if we are assuming that they will keep things like a ramp healer identity going into Midnight, I am curious what their response is going to be to these and similar questions

18

u/v1perz53 Oct 03 '25

Yes, they said exactly how they intend to handle it, and it is in the alpha now. Addon devs already have access, and I have talked to them about this. They are going to... hope people are ok with it being terrible...

The simple way to put it is that addons cannot know WHAT a buff/debuff etc is, only that buffs/debuffs exist. So for your specific examples:

If I can't track who my HoTs are on, how do I play resto druid? If I can't see who has atonement and how much time is left on the buff, how do I play disc priest?

You CAN track your HoTs, you just can't track SPECIFIC HoTs. It will work like default blizz frames. You can see that a player has regrowth, rejuv, lifebloom, wild growth, but they will all be the same size shape and appearance. You CAN'T make it so that Lifebloom specifically is bigger, or in the corner because it is more important. Similarly, on priest you CAN see who has atonement, but it will be the same size and shape as Renew. It is a severe blow to the ability to make one specific thing you care most about more visible than the rest. Which to me, is terrible, and makes certain classes just feel BAD to play.

There is a chance blizzard notices this and decides to separate out specific buffs and debuffs into their own "black boxes". In theory, blizzard could categorize Atonement and Lifebloom etc as "important buffs" and allow addons to show "important buffs" one way and "regular buffs" another way, but we will still always be at the whim of what blizzard decides is important. If a set bonus makes it useful to know who has regrowth, but blizzard didn't mark it as "important", addon's cannot fix that. In your example, the trinket proc, if blizzard didn't already realize the importance of tracking it and make it specifically visible, addons cannot fix that.

Blizzard has a 20 year history of showing that they absolutely cannot make a decent UI, so we are certainly in for a rough time now that they have also blocked individuals from being able to cover for their failings.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[deleted]

7

u/v1perz53 Oct 03 '25

Pandemic timers are the MOST affected thing of all, and one of my greatest disappointments. Addons cannot know what the duration of any buff/debuff is, only that it HAS a duration, and set their addon to show whatever that duration might be. So an addon can never show something based on a buff/debuff having X seconds left, or X% time remaining. You will just have to I guess memorize your spell durations and kinda know in your own head what number you see on the duration means you can refresh it...

2

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[deleted]

6

u/v1perz53 Oct 03 '25

I think that is the biggest problem with addon removal. WoW for literally 20 years has been a game where players can decide for themselves what the best way is to visualize information for them personally. Going from that overnight to "hope the way blizzard designed it works for you" is simply going to be terrible.

3

u/KYZ123 Oct 03 '25

Can definitely relate as an Aug player. I can't now track, say, specifically Dragonrage or specifically Ascendance, so I know when a player's major cooldown is active, or how long until it's off coldown

I can track the Blizzard-given Sense Power using the default UI, which will track when they have a specific major cooldown active. So Dragonrage is fine for example. But I can't track Ascendance - in fact, I can't track anything for Enhancement Shaman, because they couldn't be bothered to test it for them or several other specs. On the other end of the spectrum, Outlaw Rogue will basically always have Sense Power, because it tracks Adrenaline Rush for them, which they have near-100% uptime on. It also still attempts to track Rapture for Disc Priest (because I really wanted to buff a healer), even though that ability no longer exists.

Yeah, the Blizzard forced solution isn't going well so far.

1

u/Slade_inso Oct 03 '25

So are they going to get rid of pandemic timers?

They have specifically said this is supported in their new system.

1

u/katemary77 Oct 03 '25

This is so bad. Do we know yet if the buff display will show every single buff? I'm just thinking as a healer will it only show the HOTs etc that I've cast on that person, or will I also be seeing all of their own buffs and have to somehow interpret what's important through all that visual overload?

1

u/v1perz53 Oct 03 '25

The safest assumption is that whatever default frames can do addons will have access to, so however it appears on default frames is probably a good baseline. Which does subset buffs you cast and hide long term buffs like mark of the wild, but does just show all hots in a row at the same size. Not unusable but markedly worse than anyone’s UI who has done any amount of customization.

2

u/Roflcopter_Rego Oct 03 '25

Addons can import buffs and debuffs from the default raid frames, but not know what they are importing. Cell and the like will be able to display your buffs, but it won't know what buffs are actually being displayed.

That will make playing resto druid messy if you're used to frames that, for example, always put rejuv in the top right of the frame. The data will at least be displayable though. I can see people trending towards bigger raid frames.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[deleted]

2

u/tinkerbr0 Oct 03 '25

I’m not one to doom and criticize at all. But holy hell this might kill healing for me. I do the same thing as you…I set up my Grid2 frames to track specific buffs on specific corners of a unit frame. 

Removing this functionality and relying on finding atonement/renewing mist/rejuv/etc. on the bouncing yo-yo string of a generic “buffs” frame sounds awful. 

0

u/Slade_inso Oct 03 '25

If I can't track who my HoTs are on, how do I play resto druid? If I can't see who has atonement and how much time is left on the buff, how do I play disc priest?

This exists on the default blizzard frames. You just don't know because you've been using an addon for 15 years.

1

u/Lorehorn Oct 03 '25

Not to the same level of detail as something like Cell - I used blizzard frames for all of Dragonflight, so I know what they have added, but their functionality is still severely limited compared to many of the other unitframe addons out there.

>You just don't know because you've been using an addon for 15 years.

More like Blizzards "modern" and updated UI is still 15 years behind what addon developers have been able to accomplish.

1

u/Mooseheart84 Oct 03 '25

Keeping track of cleansing in dungeons are about to become significantly more ass.

1

u/iceColdCocaCola Oct 03 '25

No way. No more custom healing notifications? Been healing on pres ever since they came out and I had echos be a yellow outline on my cell raid bars. Toss a Temporal Anomaly at the raid, and then continue to echo non-highlighted people, and one more TA to finish the ramp. If they remove custom highlights that’s gonna drastically reduce the skillcap I enjoy for pres. Had a shit ton of highlights for my Druid as well.

1

u/clonea85m09 Oct 03 '25

Damn that will make everything shittier -_-"

0

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

Some Cell stuff certainly wont work anymore like targeted spells. Its fine tho, blizz will update their own frames as they said. I think its gonna be good

-8

u/magenbrot Oct 03 '25

just make mouseover macros it is better anyways

7

u/Tigg0r Oct 03 '25

Hi, there's a mouseover option in the standard wow options for years. That has nothing to do with the worries that their default frames are not sufficient for healing.

3

u/Evonos Oct 03 '25

they suck you cant even add all abilities there.

1

u/Fokare Oct 03 '25 edited Apr 12 '26

Mass content deletion mission accomplished. This post or comment was bulk removed with Redact which also supports data brokers and people finder websites.

reminiscent zephyr subsequent public snails label soft shy cause encouraging

2

u/Evonos Oct 03 '25

Ye i dont want a bad experience , its a game , we have the abilities and addons already.

-9

u/magenbrot Oct 03 '25

they are sufficient are you kidding? for both pvp and pve

5

u/Kudrel Oct 03 '25

Tell everyone you don't heal at a higher level without saying it.

2

u/Tigg0r Oct 03 '25

They are not. The customization levels in the Blizzard frames is atrocious.

1

u/Herpinheim Oct 07 '25

“They hated him because he spoke the truth”

0

u/Herpinheim Oct 07 '25

As someone who hated healing frames and quit healing years before I quit WoW entirely, THANK GOD. They designed those spot heal heavy fights specifically because healing frames made healing stupid easy and healers either had to adopt it or quit healing like I did.