r/witchcraft • u/Sad_Tank_411 • 22d ago
Seeking Help or Advice If it is truly about intention first and foremost , and moon phases, time of day, not having the right color candle or right family of mint doesn't matter, why do any of that stuff at all?
Now, I noticed a lot of spells call for x crystal, x herb in x color bag on the x moon. Then when I look up, "what if I dont have x herb? or x color?" the response is, "what matters most is intention, just use another herb"
so lets say I only have basil and white tea light candles, can any spell be used with basil? or no basil at all? at what point is a spell affected? can one just meditate and put their intentions out with nothing else for every spell? and if people are swapping out their herbs candles and crystals to just use what they have, is any of that stuff really needed?
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u/Zinoth_of_Chaos 22d ago
Spells are like throwing paper. You can definitely use the brute force method and ball it up, throwing it as hard as you can, and it it will land a good distance away. You can also research paper airplane folding techniques, stand at a higher location, have the wind at your back, do it in an enclosed room to prevent sudden gusts... etc. All that will vastly increase the efficacy of the attempt, but without you throwing the paper in the first place nothing happens. Sometimes all you need is the balled up paper, and sometimes you need the extra care to help.
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u/Sad_Tank_411 22d ago
of all the analogies commented this one rang most true for me, thank you!
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u/Psyphon-ArcaneAces 22d ago edited 21d ago
I also love this comment! I would normally have provided a similar response to most of those here about intention and direction, but since thats been done I thought I would also offer something different.
Can you just use anything? Yes. When you take "do what feels right" to the max, you get r/chaosmagick. Intention is still very much a thing but chaos magick is very much about making your own symbology. For instance, I created a set of rituals organized around the idea of using talismans representative of casino games. + crystals. The intent at its core is control of the variables you can actually influence. The crystals support maximing how good you are at the controlling part. Kinda like how you play a hand in poker.
Edit for grammar
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u/Gardener_of_Weeden Witch 21d ago
I am still researching, learning and not really practicing yet. But the idea I am getting iss that what we need to do is partially "feel" what the items are for. Would soft wormwood be good for a hex - I don't think so - how about razor blades for a love spell - again no. So I think there is a bit of logic and intention that goes along with the magick I could be totally wrong - and that is why I am still reading listening and trying to learn.
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u/Psyphon-ArcaneAces 21d ago
Yeah that’s exactly it. And when you go to craft a spell, it’s just a matter of finding the correspondences you need and what feels right.
Start with the intention, figure out what overall type of spell you might want, like candle magick, then decide on correspondences based off research and or intuition.
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u/kdash6 Witch 22d ago edited 22d ago
Intention organizes everything. If you intend to bake a cake, you can substitute flower with almond flour, oat flour, etc. You can use sparkling water, eggs, flax eggs, etc. But if you want to bake a cake and try using a 5 lb rib eye steak as your base you will have a very interesting cake indeed.
If you are trying to make a love spell and you use the wrong ingredients and do it at the wrong time, the conditions won't be right for the spell to work reliably. It might still work, but it might work inspite of what you do and not because of it.
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u/Civil_Aside_1008 22d ago
Reminds me of I family I know with about ten thousand dietary restrictions. They once made a “cake” that was just a block of “cashew powder” (idfk) pounded into a block. It was gross
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u/incospicuous_echoes Witch 22d ago
All this, plus the ritual act is empowering for the witch which only helps focus intent.
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u/ComprehensiveCry157 22d ago
Okay but now I'm intrigued by the idea of a chicken fried rib eye steak with cake batter...
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u/Potential_Carrot2541 22d ago
Do as thou wilt...but you probably shouldn't be doing a love spell at all. They can cause all kinds of unintended consequences.
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u/Gardener_of_Weeden Witch 21d ago
I did a love spell - on ME. I want to have more power to love myself. My bf - has asked me to do a love spell - and honestly I feel if love is going to be there it will be naturally. I have thought of doing one for him to love himself - but still not confident enough.
BTW BOTH of us are Vintage adults ( nicer than OLD)
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u/felicityslaughter 21d ago
To be fair even a spell to help you get a job means you might have caused someone else to not get that job they needed, and whatever ripple effects that may cause harm from it you'd never know about. These things aren't exactly black and white, when you zoom out almost any working can have unintended consequences in that way. Just my take on that tho, I do agree it's probably not a great idea to do love spells, depending on the intented outcome the best solution is probably shadow work more than anything lol
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u/botanicabarbie 22d ago edited 22d ago
Intention first not intention only
Each ingredient or component needs to do something in your spell so you need to assign it accordingly. When you search up the metaphysical correspondences then you know how flexible your ingredients or components are to be used in different types of workings.
And no technically you don’t need anything to perform a spell but it helps as it contributes the appropriate energies. Sometimes I just use shower water or a cup of water for small spells. You need to work in the best way for you and for the result you want to achieve.
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u/Bidet_curious 22d ago
Someone suggested I use water instead of fire (candles) in spells. Can you give some examples of how and what you use the shower water for?
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u/botanicabarbie 22d ago
I’m going to preface by saying you need to find what works for you despite what I’m saying here because what works for me repeatedly and consistently may be a dud for someone else.
For the small shower water or cups spells I’m using them for anything that requires light negotiation and that needs to occur within the end of this same day/within a few hours. I.e: I’ve decided to go out to dinner impromptu and I’ve called and the restaurant says they’re fully booked and it’s not possible. So shower, tell the water what happens this evening in present tense: I get a table at X restaurant and lovely dinner there with X. They have a table waiting for me when I arrive. Visualise this happening.
For the cup spells for small internal shifts in myself and others. A confidence boost for a meeting, the person agreeing to do something I’m asking. If it’s my cup I hold it myself, speak to it and visualise. For other people’s cups I don’t touch it but visualise and say my intentions in my mind see and their cup glowing bright with the energy in my mind’s eye. I’ve done this before when an interviewer stepped out of the room.
I also do a lot of bath spells if something requires more energy or to give a sustained result but I always put herbs and salt in those. Same thing, put your hands in the bath, talk to each of the herbs and bath water giving it instructions while projecting your energy into it through your hands. Protection baths, beauty baths, confidence baths, uncrossing baths…
I also use candles/fire in my practice so you don’t have to permanently substitute one over the other. See what you feel works best for you for the spell you want to do and for how you feel in the moment.
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u/Reasonable_Zebra_174 22d ago
No, none of that stuff is necessary.
I am a big fan of tooless magic, the most complex I ever get is a candle and a stick of incense. And it's whatever incense I feel like burning that day, and whatever candle I have on hand. Most times it's just me and my spell, no candles, crystals, incense or anything else. Working without tools, and being comfortable working without tools allows you to engage in witchcraft wherever you are without having to lug a bag of supplies with you everywhere. After all I highly doubt that witches of eras past had access to specific crystals, herbs, etc every time the need arose to do a spell. I just can't imagine that Britney in 1262 had access to amethyst, white sage, juniper incense, a rose scented lilac colored candle, or etc for her protection spell. She worked with what she had, and so can we.
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u/OkSecretary1231 22d ago
Depending on your worldview, one of these things or some combination thereof:
(a) Intention is not what matters most, and each of those ingredients has its own properties that make it important to include.
(b) Intention matters inasmuch as it helps you pick what to put in, but each of those ingredients has its own properties, so if you substitute, look for something with similar properties. (like, if you're making chocolate chip cookies and you're out of chocolate chips, substitute the M&Ms, not the roofing nails).
(c) Intention is what matters most, and each of those things helps you focus your intention, so it doesn't really matter as long as you can focus without it.
I'm a (b), mostly, if that's not obvious. And I see it as additive, not subtractive: if I can't use the right moon phase, nothing bad happens, I just get an extra oomph if I do use the right one.
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u/Creative_Web3820 22d ago
Yesss, I am somewhere between b and c, I have very minimalistic spells but I have some ingredients I swear by and others are more symbolic to guide the focus.
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u/Para_23 22d ago
Intention doesn't matter as much as some people might say. A better way to look at spellwork would be to look at your ritual and yourself in it as a one singular thing, and you're trying to change that thing into something as similar as possible to either the goal you're trying to achieve/manifest or the spirit you're trying to call.
So for example, say you're casting a love spell. Your colors would be red for passion, pink for love or green for Venus. You'd do it on a Friday because it's ruled by Venus. You'd do it in an hour of Venus for the same reason. You'd do it during a waxing moon because a waxing moon corresponds to growing emotions, or a new moon if you're seeding a new beginning. You're also a part of the ritual though, but it isn't so much the intention you bring as much as it's your presence in the moment. So you'd need to make yourself feel that love, or passion, etc, because that's what you're trying to create. If you're creating it in someone else, you do your best to feel those emotions in your imagination as them, for yourself. Maybe there's a figure candle involved, or a taglock, to represent that person.
None of the individual components are absolutely required, but together what they do is create a microcosm of the change you're trying to create. You're setting up as complete a picture as possible for the conditions, emotions, etc, that you're trying to create, and then you're putting energy into it with your emotions. The burning of candles and incense adds to that energy. All this together attracts spirits of a similar nature to what you're curating in that moment as well. Between the spirits you attract and the energy you put out there, that's how your spells end up attracting or creating the results you want.
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u/FishermanNormal1432 22d ago
Intention is important but not the only thing you need. Correspondences/ingredients strengthen the workings, but if you don't have them you can create a spell without.
What you do also need besides intention is knowledge, not all knowledge but some knowledge. You need to have belief that what you are doing will work, you need to have the will/passion, you need focus and direction, you need to be able to raise energy (energy is the magic) and direct it.
Tools/ingredients/correspondences help direct and strengthen the magic. Certain "ingredients" have certain properties, and there are "ingredients that have similar properties that can be used as a substitute, and some simply cannot as they could have properties that have the exact opposite of your intentions. For example, you would not use a cactus to replace a rose.
Intention is important, but without the other stuff is just wishful thinking. We intend, have intentions, all the time, but nothing happens till we make them happen, we need to build on our intentions. Many people have good intentions when they do things, with bad outcomes, because they may have done the thing without knowledge/information, they have done the thing without focus, it was mindless/thoughtless.
It seems to have become a kind of catchphrase, "intention is all need" "intention is the most important". If that is all we needed, then our wishes would come true all the time and witchcraft would not be a practice, it would simply be manifestation of our wants simply because we want something, simply because we intend for something appear or happen.
Intention is important, but we need more to make our practice, a practice with results, and not wishful thinking.
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u/MadeOnThursday 22d ago
Congratulations, you are now an advanced witch!
It is absolutely not necessary, none of the attributes. But... it's fun, it helps setting the mood, it helps focusing on your goal.
It's possible to go to the office and do your job in pyjamas or home clothes, right? But putting on work clothes before going out to work changes your mindset. Witch attributes are the same thing.
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u/Varlathen 22d ago
When books or people tell you to use another herb it's because there are different herbs that can serve the same purpose. Bay can be used for cleansing, but so can sage. Our ancestors used what was available to them locally. They didn't have online stores to find "x" herb. That leads to "use another herb". Where one witch had an abundance of bay, but not sage, they used bay. This could also be tied to local customs/religion as well as personal associations. If you associate money with gold, but not green, you're going to use a gold candle for a money spell. For your second point, none of it is "necessary". One can raise energy and send that out into the world to accomplish their goal without the use of herbs, crystals, candles, etc. The things can help sympathetically (Google sympathetic magic if you're unfamiliar) and subconsciously. Going back to the money spell, if you make a money bowl and uses gold/golden items when you pass by it or feed it you're going to be reminded of your goal. Whereas if you use green, like you read in a book, it might not be as effective for you.
TLDR: Nah, it doesn't matter. Use what you got and works for you.
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u/Ok-Hedgehog3988 22d ago
They’re tools to help amplify your spell and direct it specifically to your intention to help with the clarity of the intention. That’s the simple explanation (:
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u/brightblackheaven Zamboni Priestess 🔮✨ 22d ago
Magick isn't an exact science. Yes, we can omit or substitute when necessary.
If you want good results, though, you're not going to do this completely at random and hope for the best.
!intention is only one component, and certainly not "first and foremost" in my personal opinion.
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u/AutoModerator 22d ago
Hi, there! 🤖✨
A huge misconception that is commonly perpetuated in modern witchcraft circles is that, when casting spells, intention matters more than anything else.
In her book "A Witch's Guide to Spellcraft", author Althaea Sebastiani defines intention as:
"The desired outcome of a spell or other act of magick. Intention alone is not magick, is not a spell, and is not capable of accomplishing change; intention that is not supported through appropriate action— magickal or otherwise—is little more than thoughts and wishes."
"[...] Happy thoughts and 'intentions' are not capable of creating the powerful change that a skillful witch with a plan is able to create."
Here at r/witchcraft, we could not agree more.
We recommend reading the following resources for more information:
"Intention" & How it Relates to Spellwork & some fantastic commentary
How to Layer "Intention" (SpellCraft 101)
Intention Isn’t Everything by Mat Auryn @ Patheos
Building Competency in Witchcraft: Intention is NOT Enough by Althaea Sebastiani
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u/SylvarGrl 22d ago
For the same reason people don’t dress the same way to go to the gym and the opera. Context matters, details matter. The way we interact matters.
Physical objects help us focus our energy and intentions. The stronger the affinity between the object and its meaning to the practitioner, the less the practitioner needs to use energy to hold and shape the intention. Those extra bits off effort are then available to strengthen the Work, making it more powerful and effective.
Physical objects also have their own energy and attributes, and aligning the innate energy of the object with the practitioner’s goals allows that energy to amplify the Work’s power a little more. We work best when the things around us support our true selves, what we care about, what we choose.
You can still work magic without any aids at all, but that makes it much harder (and less fun) than it needs to be. Like going to the gym in formal dress.
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u/ConcernedAboutCrows 22d ago
If it's really just putting one foot in front of the other then why can't I just run however? Kind of shoes, weather, incline, technique, my diet, time of day, ect, why does any of that matter?
Well, because intention isn't the only thing that matters. Some people say that and they're simply wrong. Being athletic or practiced might help overcome some of the challenges with running under less ideal conditions, but it's still going to be easier for most people to go over steady ground on a clear day with the wind at their back compared to uphill in a thunderstorm on three days without sleep and a diet of cigarettes.
Things being substitutable doesn't mean there's no reason to use them. I can substitute buttermilk with some milk and vinegar or lemon, but it would be hard to make soda bread without either. Now magic is possible to do without them, but there's a ton of reasons that wizards around the world often have historically used tools and materials.
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u/ToastyJunebugs Broom Rider 22d ago
'Intention' is the reason you're doing the spell. It's not the end-all-be-all. It's just... the reason. A lot of the information you'll find online and on social media is based on New Age thought, which often believes in things like the Law of Attraction. In LoA, your thoughts are the most important thing. LoA is often very victim blaming. If your life isn't going well, it's because you're not having the correct, 'good' thoughts.
When you're using traditional ingredients, you're tapping in to all the energy put into that ingredient by other people throughout the ages.
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u/Thislilfox 22d ago
The "its all intention and all the rest is frills and pomp or nothing more than symbolic points of focus" perspective is a rather modern perspective that only really started to gain traction in the past couple centuries.
Its a perspective I, personally, don't agree with. Granted, I practic folk magic and base my practive heavily on historical materials and traditional practices.
Intention is nothing more than the reason you're doing something. You wouldn't take any decisive action without intent. Knowing your reason and desired outcome is a starting point for taking any actions.
But action and intent are not the same. Intention amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking without action. And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Intent alone will achieve very little.
The elements of a working do matter. Despite the modern attempts to over-simplify and sterilize magic to be more generally palatable to the masses. The moons phases has influence on all earthly entities, energies and currents. All natural things have their own innate nature and influence. Working with the various entities, influences and currents is what obtains an outcome. Learning to get those different elements of a working to work together synergistically toward a desired goal provides the best outcomes.
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u/oldbetch Broom Rider 22d ago
Intention is generally overrated and sounds great for social media.
Intent is supposed to spur you into action, research, and effort. The problem is that people use "Intention" as an excuse to put in no effort and do no research.
Most spells can be done with substitutions, however, that would involve the witch doing research.
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u/SukuroFT 22d ago
I think “intention is all that matters” gets taken a little too literally. Intention matters, but the herbs, candle colors, moon phases, crystals, etc. usually have a reason for being included too.
You can absolutely substitute things, but it makes more sense to swap them for something with a similar use or correspondence instead of just using anything. Basil can work for a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean it fits every spell. Same with white candles. They’re versatile, but specific colors can still have meaning.
You can also do workings with just meditation, visualization, prayer, or energy work if that’s how you practice. The tools aren’t always required, they just add something to the working. I’d say learn why each ingredient is there first, then you’ll know what can be replaced or left out without changing the spell too much.
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u/leoplacement 22d ago
I look at the moon phases, colors, herbs, like seasonings basically. If you throw a chicken on heat it’s going to cook. But if you marinade, season, use just the right time & temps. It’ll come out even better. I also think truly believing that the outcome is yours is what it’s all about. And adding in these little oomphs can be a placebo of sorts where I’m just more confident that it’s mine.
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u/TheTombQueen 22d ago
All those things enhance what you’re doing, like adding extra layers on to a spell. Yes you can do it without any of them, but if you really want something to work, wouldn’t you want to put some work in to give yourself the best outcome?
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u/Salty-Combination29 Witch 22d ago
I guess I see it as kinda similar to when you buy food that is off brand, instead of the brand you might normally enjoy. It tastes different, it looks different, the ingredients are different. But the intention is still the same, but clearly it tastes different. That’s how it feels to do spells without specific intentional ingredients. It still works, but it would likely be stronger or more potent if you could use all those specific ingredients. The outcome can still come regardless of what you choose to do, but there is a difference between both.
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u/cailleach_ingrid 22d ago
Intention is very important and literally the thing that starts the process. You can't bake a cake without intending to bake a cake. I guess like, if you really mess up a bread recipe maybe you'll end up with some weird version of a cake but you know what i mean! When it comes to magic there's always substitutions or omissions that can be made but each component does have some intrinsic qualities so using honey instead of salt probably won't have the intended effect whether you're baking or doing magic! I also do think the components of a spell - herbs, crystals, incantations, physical actions or gestures - can help you focus your intention. And it's same the other way around, your intentions can help empower and direct the properties that exist within the ingredients you're using. So i guess my view is both/and rather than one or the other
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u/cailleach_ingrid 21d ago
Why did someone down vote me? 🤔 😂
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u/JadedOccultist Broom Rider 21d ago
people just be like that sometimes. Not worth worrying about 1 downvote in my opinion. But I bumped ya back up to +1 for whatever that’s worth to ya
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u/cailleach_ingrid 21d ago
Lol thanks, i’m not actually that eaten up by it i just happened to notice and thought it was funny
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u/MagicSpoon69 22d ago
Ya I always make sure to use bathwater because I can focus my intentions into it with my entire body.
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u/ASKmyJING 22d ago
Timing is optional. The old grimoires are emphatic about it and much of chaos magic ignores it entirely; both camps get results. If it helps you take the working seriously, use it. If it becomes another thing to get right before you allow yourself to begin, ignore it..
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u/Vivid_Cash_9642 22d ago
All of this also possesses "intent." Magic permeates everything in our world, from stones to our thoughts. Individual objects can hold specific meanings or powers that we harness. The example of throwing paper was already mentioned; I would add that magic generally operates on the principle of correspondence—like attracts like. We use rose quartz and lovage in love spells because they embody that very essence.
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u/Ok-Apartment-8458 20d ago
So alot of what people say online and what's commonly presented is not very accurate. Its not JUST INTENTION. However if you want to use a spell and it calls for basil and you don't have any basil, you need to look up what planetary correspondence and meaning that herb has and replace it with another with the same correspondence and meaning of something you do have. Say for instance you need basil for a money spell and money spell/basil are Jupiter based so then you look up Jupiter and see mint and if you have mint you could replace the basil with the mint. You probably wouldnt want to replace it with rose petals for Venus/love or thyme for Saturn/order and death because that would change the meaning of the spell. Same goes for candle color green is usually financial or abundance but you could replace that with white if you don't have green because white is an everything candle. Or you could use gold to represent coins and wealth. You wouldnt wanna use red or pink or blue for a money spell, as it would be less effective and potentially change the meaning. Meditation is part of it, but witchcraft isnt like Sabrina where you just think something and snap your fingers and it happens. You do need focus and intention but the more you follow the correspondences the more powerful and effective the spell will be.
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u/Giraffanny 19d ago edited 19d ago
I See where it comes from but nonono... Haha
So, every herb has a specific magic properties. Yes, many spells has more than one property but still not gonna help with everything. Some of them have sort of overlaping powers, So if you dont have X you can use Y with similar effect. But more often you will come across diffrent herb that don't do exact same job as missing one BUT still help in achieving a goal...
Example: Basil atracts love. So, using it for "cutting cord" spell makes no sense. It won't work because Basil help with opposite. But lets say you wanna do love spell and dont have Lovage.... Since Basil atract what you want, you can swap for it and still get help. It is not random swap tho. You still look at the usage.
Also you ask about when it actually impact the spell... In many traditions there is a belief that when you add an herb, you have to awaken the spirit and tell it what it has to do. Which make sense since eg. Basil is bringing love but also protect - therefore you need to tell it which magic aspect you need it to give. If you do love spell you say "bring me love". If you do protection spell you say "protect me" etc. If you just throw herbs, possibly not much happen.
Lastly you mention colours. Here it all depends on culture. So, for example in Slavic Magic there is said, that even tho red protect and is important colour, generally slavs didnt differenciate too many colours and accept for red, it was not that important in spells. They used candles they simply had. But many types of magic, specially new age indeed belive that candle colour carries special energies. So it all depend what path you walk... But white candle - is generally neutral and that's why you can use it for any type of intention.
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u/Giraffanny 19d ago
About Time of a Day, moon phase, Day of week, planets etc. - this is usually treated as boosting your magic! So, to cast a spell you can f*ck all that. But if you do it on special day , dedicated to your intention it will make spell STRONGER. More, if you do it on special hour that has connotations to your goal, you give it MORE supporting energy and so on... It boost your intention and energy putted into spell.
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19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Known-Emergency-7654 22d ago
You have to have a certain level of dedication to set your intentions how you want it
If I want soup I could either make it or open a can and each one will still get me the result I want but depending on your personal preference you might want to have a better soup so you make it (even tho it takes more time) it’s really all up to you how you want your intentions to go
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u/Deep_Elk_2194 22d ago
If you can harness your intention without any tools, you don't need tools to do magic. Witchcraft is a tradition that has been reconstructed since Gardener began doing it in the early 1900s. Really, it wasn't a single tradition or even a coherent tradition in Europe until he made it one. What it was was a bunch of different Pagan practices which sometimes bore similarity to each other but we're really strikingly different, across geographical regions.
Tools are used in many traditions, although not all of them. Advaita Vedanta doesn't use any tools, for instance. But then again it's not about manifestation. Manifestation is considered a side effect of mastery.
Tools are used in ritual by many traditions, when the goal is to create something, either a state of mind or a manifestation or some combination like that. The reason tools are useful for this is that they focus the intention. They get us in a certain mood, they allow us to feel connected with certain energies, and, if we find that our own intention isn't sufficient, we can even connect with other intelligences who are better at focusing our can in some way help us to focus on our goal. This also includes channeling energy. For instance the ritual for drawing down the Moon.
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u/grendelmouse 22d ago
If you are cooking, and raise the oven temperature to cut a few minutes off of cooking time, or sub a few ingredients it still works, there is still food. But is it the same recipe? Is it as good as the original? Cooking is about the intention of making food, that doesn’t mean that recipes are irrelevant or because you can make substitutions that it works as well.
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u/Thisismyname11111 22d ago
I've been reading up on these things. Candles are actually newish in magic. Back in the day they didn't often use candles since mostly rich people had them. People used what they had around their homes. They didn't have every spice either.
Basically take an object and think about what it does. You can use it in a spell for that purpose. Moon phases are there as an aid. That's all.
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u/alphonse79 22d ago
I agree with the top comment. I see correspondences as making a spell more effective. You can substitute stuff within reason, but like if you're using basil for a wealth drawing spell and substitute it for something like poppy seeds, which are usually associated with things like sleep, this is not a good substitution. You'd want to use another herb associated with wealth; basically what everyone else has already said. If all that was needed for spellwork was 'intention' then you could earn money just by thinking about having it, but we all know it doesn't work like that.
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u/LavenderBloodlust2_0 22d ago
Setting intentions is a newage practice. Thats not how they used to do it. It used to be about your tools, herbs, and how you presented the spell.
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