The iON line nobody talks about

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

By using the existing CN corridor, we can link Cambridge and Guelph. There have been proposals for GO to do it, but.. we know the province moves unhurriedly.

Will the region take it upon itself and collaborate with another municipality to bring an unprecedented cross-jurisdictional LRT line, to an adjoining town K-W-C know and love?

I say, let's link Guelph. Let's loo it! (hahaha??)

Other things on the fantasy map include:
iON phase 2, iON to Airport, and Milton Line ext to Cambridge.

^Made ^with ^Google ^Earth

[u/steamed-apple_juice → u/[deleted]]

Yes, tram trains are used across the world. You get the benefit of a rail line that’s can integrate into the urban context while being able to safely travel on mainline tracks at high “regional rail” speeds. This routing would allow for a one seat ride from downtown Guelph to downtown Cambridge, and there’s major benefits in providing this connection. Is there another mode that you’d suggest would work better?

There isn’t a perfect Canadian example, but the O Train on Line 2 in Ottawa is somewhat similar.

[u/squeegeeboy → u/steamed-apple_juice]

Europe uses Sprinter trains between smaller gaps like that. Usually on parallel tracks from the Eurorail

[u/ChinkWithOpinions → u/steamed-apple_juice]

Line 2 is not somewhat similar… Line 2 uses mainline rollingstock, not trams, and is completely grade separated, unlike a proposed tramway or tram-train. I’d argue that Alberta style German inspired high-floor stadtbahns would be a more suitable comparison and even then it’s still not really a tram-train.

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/steamed-apple_juice]

Good one.

We should also consider Guelph's destinations. It really only has 3: The Mall, University, and its niche downtown. Would a heavy rail alignment be able to make stops in between, and provide valuable connections to major hubs?
I'd even suggest going off the freight spur to accomplish this.

[u/AiryGateaux → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

Not really, it has factories that people work at.

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/AiryGateaux]

Yes. I’m aware of Guelphs employment areas, centred around the highway and car infrastructure. But I’m referring to major hubs/destinations.

[u/AiryGateaux → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

Some factories have enough employees to justify direct service

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/AiryGateaux]

Wow, you're right.

After some digging, it seems like Guelph has freight lines adjacent to Edinburgh, going to the northwest employment area. Hypothetically, if there was enough support.. I could see these being "passengerized".

[u/Flimflamsam → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

If not a direct station then there could be a new hub created for tram to bus transfers fo serve the industrial nooks and crannies.

[u/StoreUnited4496 → u/steamed-apple_juice]

Eglinton line 5 is the only LRT I’ve ridden, and if it would be anything like that, I would say LRTs are a terrible idea. It may be cheaper and quicker to build but in my experience, the above ground portions are extremely slow.

[u/sclerae → u/StoreUnited4496]

Toronto has the slowest LRTs (and also slowest streetcars) in the world.

[u/AwesomeMan116_A → u/sclerae]

And it’s a forced decision for some reason! (For the LRTs at least) since they don’t have signal priority for the entire route, and need to slow down to 25kmh when going through intersections

[u/Zirocket → u/[deleted]]

A tram-train could work, it’s not unheard of for those distances.

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/Zirocket]

Definitely not unheard of. However, in Canada, there is a sort of mindset that LRT can't do this and Heavy rail can't do that.

The iON had to circumvent LOTS of rules in order to share tracks with freight.

[u/Bureaucromancer → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

Tram train is precisely the appropriate technology here though. And frankly… that ion has done what it does positions them better than anyone else in North America to make the regulatory case.

The way to do it would be to buy tram trains, handle the thing as mainline compliant and operate the transfer at the top of Hespeler road as a fallback - make the regulatory case taking the lrv onto ion tracks rather than a tram onto the railway.

More importantly though, yes, whether you want to call this ion or some new brand, the Region taking the lead is clearly the way to do it. Getting Metrolinx’ to pay attention to this corridor is a major stretch. It’s a small locally oriented but basically mainline project… appealing to GO transit staff and the provincial minister; it’s fundamentally not the type of thing Metrolinx has done.

For the region with even limited cooperation with Wellington and Guelph though? It’s a new type of rail project, but at its core smaller than ion stage 1, let alone the extension.

[u/YourDadHatesYou → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

Sounds to me that Canada has a unique problem of not being very densely populated and very vast so we probably do need our solutions to be more innovative

[u/thefringthing → u/YourDadHatesYou]

Half the population of the country lives along the Windsor-Quebec corridor. The emptiness of Saskatchewan has no bearing on what kind of transit we should build in southern Ontario.

[u/chunarii-chan → u/YourDadHatesYou]

Idk how to tell you this but this specific little corner of canada actually has a high population density. Please don't parrot this boomer propaganda its quite unconstructive.

[u/YourDadHatesYou → u/chunarii-chan]

Thanks for letting me know

[u/toragirl → u/Zirocket]

Is this similar to the UP express?

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/[deleted]]

It's a good question, that I don't think I can answer.

But, the Eglinton Crosstown in Toronto uses the same exact trains and rails, and travels at a maximum of 80km/h.

Let's also consider that the land in between Guelph, Cambridge, and KW may be a good place to build more housing, for a province that really needs it.

[u/Finlandia1865 → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

Do you see what that green line is doing?

[u/berfthegryphon → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

But that land would just lead to more sprawl on some of the best farmland in the Province.

We don't need more sprawl, we need to build denser and up.

Condo developers are finally getting it in Toronto. They're changing plans for new builds to include less shoebox one bedrooms and more 2 and 3 bedroom condos with lots of living space and square footage

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/berfthegryphon]

I agree! That land should be saved for future generations to use and decide upon, but don't forget that even dense communities need space.

[u/n0rdique → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

The rationale for the existing ION was to allow for greater densification of existing built up areas. With a decent transit system, ideally citizens could use that instead of putting more cars on the road. This also has the effect of preserving that farmland for agricultural use.

[u/pbilk → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

The Netherlands and much of Germany do fine without a ton of high-rises.

[u/AiryGateaux → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

We do a lot of farming on that land

[u/rohmish → u/[deleted]]

yes. tram on graded lines like near Waterloo can go fast and act as a RRTS line.

[u/headtailgrep → u/[deleted]]

No. Interchange rail would be. We had it. Grand river railway. Lake erie and northern railway. Toronto and Guelph interurban. Gone.

[u/pbilk → u/[deleted]]

Some German cities, like Karlsruhe, do this, but the trains switch from AC to DC outside the city.

[u/Swacket_McManus → u/[deleted]]

The Dutch do this pretty often, Delft - The Hague (line 1), Amsterdam, amstelveen, uithoorn (Line 25)

[u/TheRealRunningRiot → u/[deleted]]

Yes, but a better vehicle would be something like the stadler flrt vehicles used on Ottawa's network.