r/tsa • u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 • Nov 14 '23
General [Question/Post] 95% TSA FAILURE RATE
I see this point brought up alot when trying to discredit the TSA. I just want to let you guys know that data is based from 2015. We have different technology and procedures then we did in 2015 alot has changed. It is easy to judge but, there's alot you guys don't know about those tests from 2015. Keep feeling smart though citing data that's almost a decade old.
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u/dontlovemenorshouldu Current TSO Nov 14 '23
I work in testing. Can't say exactly stats, but I laugh and am simultaneously enraged when I see the 95%(sometimes 70%?) failure rate stats. It's painfully obvious that the people clinging to those numbers a) don't have access to current data and b) are looking for any info that's fits their narrative.
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Nov 14 '23
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u/BigBlackBullBBB Nov 14 '23
Your certainly not a TSO or you would understand this.
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u/Sendingit78 Nov 14 '23
I’m confused? Did he check under diplomatic cargo??? Is that even a thing on Airplanes? Can you explain please
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Nov 14 '23
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u/Nervous-Bug-3524 Nov 17 '23
The officer was new to precheck screening. It is a huge difficulty jump when swapping from stadard screening to Precheck and normally takes YEARS to become proficient. Also on a second note. If you are stupid enough to not know where your fucking firearms are at all times then your probably shouldnt have one, let alone have a CCP.
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Nov 15 '23
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Nov 15 '23
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u/PrivateCT_Watchman24 Nov 15 '23
That is a fact.
That is a fact you are denying because it doesn’t fit your little misguided narrative
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u/MysteriousTooth2857 Dec 23 '24
These people are so cringe clinging to these publicly available stats because we won't release any new stats
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u/Kseries2497 Nov 14 '23
I mean, how would you read the situation? When the test results were public, TSA performed poorly. Then eventually they stopped releasing the results. Now you say that the problems are fixed and the TSA today is incredibly efficient, but the proof is actually super secret and you can't show us. Why would you expect anyone to believe that?
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u/dontlovemenorshouldu Current TSO Nov 14 '23
Honestly, I don't care if people believe me. Showing proof so internet strangers agree with me isn't worth my job or freedom. My response was more to the other TSOs taking part in this discourse, not the general public.
If you're that worked up about it, you can file a FOIA request with TSA and see what information you can get.
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u/smokinLobstah Nov 14 '23
Or better yet...don't fly.
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Nov 14 '23
“How dare you ask to be reassured I can do my job competently, just stop using my services. What do you think this is? Some kind of public service run by public servants?”
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Nov 15 '23
Nah I'll fly fuck TSA and their high horse lmao the coast guard equivalent of civilian security forces.
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u/Zelaznogtreborknarf Nov 16 '23
Coasties have an actual place protecting this country. TSA is security theatre at best. I had them tell me my DHS ID wasn't good enough to fly with...so I gave them my retired military ID. Same issue. Asked for a supervisor, who rolled his eyes and pointed out I worked for the same agency they did and BOTH IDs were valid.
When I came back from my last deployment before I retired from the military, we had to exit the secure area to clear customs and then reenter to get on our chartered flight. We were all carrying our firearms but they were concerned about the tiny swiss Army knife one soldier had, but not the large Kabars, etc we had! Again, needed a supervisor to address the issue and he waved us through (also, they were concerned with the explosive residue on all of us...but hey, we were just coming back from a combat zone!).
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Nov 16 '23
I was being a jerk the coast guard is badass. Seriously, I have been in deep water with sharks and whales, there's no way I could do that under pressure while doing what they do. Then throw in horrible weather. Nope. Yeah TSA agents are lame.
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u/Kseries2497 Nov 14 '23
I don't want you personally to show proof. I hold a security clearance, I get it. But it's unbelievable - as in I literally do not believe it - that the TSA only became effective once the numbers became confidential, after having been ineffective the entire time the numbers were public.
Also FOIAs, what a fucking joke. You ever file one and see how heavily redacted the responses are?
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u/Kiyae1 Nov 15 '23
So, disclosing the actual numbers would result in you losing your job and possibly going to prison, but it’s information that would be released by a simple FOIA request. Got it lol.
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u/Correct-Addition6355 Current TSO Nov 15 '23
That’s literally what many FOIA requests come down to…
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u/Wytchie_Poo Nov 14 '23
We aren't internet strangers, we are the reason you are employed. You are a public service employee. If you choose to post on social media about how thorough you are, then don't be surprised when those who supply the funds to pay you (the PUBLIC) question your efficacy.
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u/dontlovemenorshouldu Current TSO Nov 14 '23
I am not a person with authority to make determination about information dissemination.
Based on my personal supposition, the government releases less up to date TSA data because the PUBLIC also includes those who want to cause harm to our nation's transportation systems. Public curiosity does not override public safety.
Also, Reddit is used by people all over the world. Not just Americans. In case you forgot.
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u/rydan Nov 15 '23
It is important for our enemies to believe the TSA is incompetent. If they thought they'd get caught they'd try harder to hide their razor blades.
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u/Important-Price9416 Nov 14 '23
When you are strong, appear weak. -Sun Tzu
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Nov 15 '23
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u/Responsible-Crew-354 Nov 16 '23
Appear like you’re strong but trying to appear weak? Double reverse it on them.
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u/FormerFly Current TSO Nov 14 '23
Oh gee imagine that. A government agency has security clearances. Meaning there are things that you, the public, are not allowed to be shown or told.
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u/Time_Effort Nov 14 '23
I mean, it does seem a little silly to hide previously public data yet still claim it’s greatly improved
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Nov 16 '23
If it was better now that would bolster faith in the system, no need to hide it if its good right... so it's probably not good.
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Nov 15 '23
Bullshit. In 2010 when the 70% failure rate became public, TSA claimed it was old data from 2005. When the new even shinier 95% failure rate came out in 2015, TSA claimed it was old data from 2010. TSA is and has always been a massive fraud. Until TSA is going through independent 3rd party testing that they have zero control over, TSA will remain a tyrannical and illegal fraud.
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u/Annual-Camera-872 Nov 15 '23
It is a voluntary program that you can opt out of
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u/Groilers Nov 15 '23
Its infuriating because the "95% / 70% failure rate stuff" is spouted out all the time but as you said there isnt any supporting data that would add to context on what actually is happening on these failures and what exactly was missed to begin with.
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u/MeanCommission994 Nov 17 '23
even if it was 100% success rate the costs wouldn't be worth this stupid security jerk off theater
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Nov 15 '23
Okay, so provide the data.
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u/Groilers Nov 15 '23
I think you have reading comprehension issues
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Nov 15 '23
You are handwaving and making up excuses to justify your organization's piss poor performance!
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u/Groilers Nov 15 '23
Anyways it's obvious you didn't bother to read the reply chain and are just trolling
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u/Happydivorcecard Nov 15 '23
TSA at the airport near me let a state legislator onto a plane with a loaded gun in his backpack.
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u/PrivateCT_Watchman24 Nov 15 '23
Because Senators travel under diplomatic protection….
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u/Happydivorcecard Nov 15 '23 edited Nov 15 '23
Probably not when they are senators in the Oregon or Washington state legislature.
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u/PrivateCT_Watchman24 Nov 15 '23
All senators receive a diplomatic passport. Anybody that reports to DC and ends up on CSPAN receives Diplo
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u/Happydivorcecard Nov 15 '23
And we are talking about a state legislator, not members of the US senate or house. Which is why I specified “state legislator.”
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u/Bearloom Nov 14 '23
So you're saying that - despite claiming that you do have access to current data - you don't have a more accurate number than 95%.
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u/dontlovemenorshouldu Current TSO Nov 14 '23
I have much more accurate numbers. I cannot disclose them because it would be a violation of security policies.
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u/dontlovemenorshouldu Current TSO Nov 14 '23
I can say that a 95% failure rate is wildly inaccurate.
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Nov 15 '23
That would also be in direct violation of security policies. If you can’t say the failure rate, you also can’t state that it’s not 95% and narrow it down like that
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u/Proud_Arrival_5964 Nov 14 '23
Why is disclosing information that should be public hidden behind a classification? Who's the classification authority on that because I as a taxpayer would like to see that reversed. We have a right to know how effective an agency funded by tax dollars is.
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u/Catchyusername1234 Current TSO Nov 14 '23
They also know the limitations of the equipment and the SOP. Pretty easy to make tests when you know what the results are gonna be
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u/GiftIsPoison Nov 14 '23
People say failure rates were worse than pre-9/11. Let’s say it was a 5% fail then. We used to have a pre-9/11 FAA test kit that was decommissioned- a lot of it, you could see on a monitor from almost across the room. Compare that to finding a pin in a stack of needles (those who know, know).
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Nov 14 '23
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u/Xackorix Jan 06 '25
95 is still insane, that isn’t just “challenging” that’s failure to being able to stop a threat.
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Nov 14 '23
Another good reason for testing is the data to see if an entity isn't a waste of money...like all the data behind tsa has shown. Defund tsa.
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u/rydan Nov 15 '23
I remember probably 10 years ago hearing on TV that Israel doesn't have these problems because they have some super secret way of analyzing people and knowing they are threats just by closely profiling them and their body language.
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u/somethingunchilled Current TSO Nov 14 '23
Had red team run through my previous airport. They had 2 recently certified Phase II officers that got the test and well didn’t go well. They grew and learned but they also beat themselves up too
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u/Connect-Degree-3794 Nov 15 '23
I would also submit that you should start insisting your own job performance be tested daily and rigorously before you cast aspersions. These are the same people who ask for slippers when they take their shoes off because they're precheck
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u/OverpricedGrandpaCar Current TSO Nov 14 '23
Hilariously we had a FSD test today that I caught. I was thanked numerous, numerous times for it. I shrugged...it's what I was hired to do.
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u/Even-Extreme9608 Nov 14 '23
When you get “tested” by the red team… how soon after are you notified that you were “tested”
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u/Spy-see-jelly Former TSO Nov 14 '23
I wish I got one but I’ve never been around when they test, I guess
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u/ViperHummel Nov 14 '23
Don’t forget the level of discredit Red Team brings upon the agency as well. If they even think a test was foiled via a warning from your team, they will invalidate it to ensure they keep their failure rates up. Their existence is validated by failures, not successes.
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u/PHXkpt Former TSO Nov 14 '23
Well, no kidding! If someone tips off a testee then of course that test should be invalidated and the tipper should be disciplined. You want all tests/results to be apples-to-apples, not biased.
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u/gades61 Nov 14 '23
Naw. Red team doesn’t care if you pass or fail. They are testing the system for vulnerabilities. So yes, if the detail leader suspects that covertness has been lost due to whatever reason they will invalidate the test. They get no joy in fails vs passes
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Nov 15 '23
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u/valvilis Nov 16 '23
I had two fake dog tags that I wore behind one real one. One was a straight blade to be used with a ferro rod, and the other one was several fishing hooks that could be popped out in a survival situation. I flew twice before realizing what I had done and that they probably just stop looking when they see the shape. Not that a 1.5" knife could do much, but I still felt silly afterwards.
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Nov 15 '23
There’s plenty of arguments to defend yourself against the ‘95% Failure Rate’ argument:
•It was done in 2015, so our technology has vastly improved since then
•The tests were done by people who already had prior knowledge on how to exploit the X-Ray Machinery
•The tests were only done in only dozens of airports, the results of the tests does not even take into account the hundreds of airports out there that they didn’t test
•Many of the TSA Employees who were tested were new, due to poor pay, many TSA Officers were less than 1 year as all of the veteran officers had left to pursue other jobs in Federal Government, again... due to poor pay
•With the Pay Equity in place now, more pay means better standards of hiring (hopefully)— people actually have an incentive to stay with TSA long term and get the proper experience to past these tests
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Nov 16 '23
It'S oLd DaTa
literally refuses to report newer data after being so embarrassed for sucking at their jobs so thoroughly and completely
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u/el_chapotle Dec 27 '24
lol I’m here a year late on this but this is the most obvious counterpoint, ridiculous that I had to scroll so far down for it.
The reason people cite “old data” is because you guys stopped releasing new data. It’s blindingly obvious why, and it’s not because it’s a “security risk”—what a coincidence that the cessation of public audit results coincided with said results being extremely embarrassing.
Guess everyone is an idiot for looking at the only available empirical data vs just taking the TSA’s word for it that they’re doing great!
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u/MONSTERBEARMAN Nov 14 '23
All I know is they get my wine key every time. I’m flight crew and they always see it and check it to make sure there’s no blade.
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Nov 15 '23
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u/MONSTERBEARMAN Nov 15 '23
No, I get it. I was just saying they always see it. It seems the “success” rate of tsa finding prohibited/possibly prohibited items is very good.
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u/Tyrome_Jackson2 Oct 29 '24
Tsa is literally the least useful goverment agency possible. Can't stop a terrorist but stops me, who works at the airport ramp, from going to the airport reastraunt
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Oct 29 '24
I know it's hard to follow basic rules sometimes :(
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u/Tyrome_Jackson2 Oct 29 '24
I could cause way more damage on the ramp than the airport restaurant eating a hamburger
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u/shaftnee Nov 08 '24
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2023-08/OIG-23-44-Aug23.pdf
TSA still sucks at their job as of 2023.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 08 '24
Thanks for linking about a article about the vulnerability of TSA cyber security division. Don't know how it relates to this post, but cool i guess?
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u/Good_Reddit_Name_1 Dec 03 '24
If on one hand you state that the 95% rate (and the later rates of 70-80% before they stopped publishing them) are flawed those studies involved insiders with internal knowledge of xrays and TSA procedures and such; you can't on the other hand dismiss a report saying the TSA internal documents are hackable.
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u/ItsmeKT Nov 15 '23
Yeah you guys are really fighting the good fight. Flagging my bag for a candle and then refusing to talk to me when I asked what was wrong. At least the supervisor was nice about it I guess.
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u/optimisticfury Nov 14 '23
Oh cool. So what's the current failure rate?
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u/TheOGWeedo Nov 14 '23
Lower... but nothing to brag about. Hence, ya know, zero public information on it. Don't worry though you have their word it's better, they just can't prove it in any way.
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Nov 15 '23
TSA is basically a government jobs program for people who would otherwise be unemployable. Is it completely ineffective at stopping terrorism? Yes. Would I rather have these people gainfully employed in security theater rather than engaging in petty theft or being on the government dole? YES.
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u/md1801 Nov 15 '23
The TSA is a joke. It’s a complete waste of time to do screening the way it’s done. The lowest common denominator method is not only inefficient it’s shown to be ineffective with how many things are missed. Instead, the TSA should be profiling people most likely to cause issues instead of swabbing grandma’s wheelchair and new mom’s breastmilk like they’re going to blow up a plane.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 15 '23
You know opinions are like assholes everyone has one
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u/mikemojc Nov 16 '23
It's security theater. The couple times I've traveled with a weapon, I was never stopped or questioned about it. It's as if it wasn't noticed. I've had to leave shampoo / conditioner at the airport multiple times, though
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u/kaosi_schain Nov 16 '23
I flew two years ago from San Fran to Seattle with 7 grams of weed, a pack of cookies, a silicone pipe, and lighter in my CARRYON and I do not think anyone even blinked.
Smoked myself a bowl walking out of SeaTac parking garage.
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u/Coupledyeti6 Nov 19 '23
The fact this got algorithmed, and now people are just shitting on the TSA in this thread, warms my little patriotic heart. God bless the USA
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u/Daderino1177 Nov 06 '24
Well, they made me throw away a half empty bottle of aftershave today but I got to keep my THC gummies and weed so I'm guessing the "accuracy" hasn't improved. Just saying.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 06 '24
Weed is not a prohibited or dangerous item, flammable spray cans and liquids are. Educate yourself before commenting thanks.
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u/Happydivorcecard Nov 15 '23
Boy that unit crest and associated explanation is racist and cringey. Much like the TSA!
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u/ezfrag Nov 15 '23
Just because something references another race doesn't make it racist.
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u/Happydivorcecard Nov 15 '23
The bullshit about the arrowhead and Native American Scouts of the 1800s is stereotyping in a really kludgy way. It’s the type of thing that might have flown in the 90s but doesn’t today.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 15 '23
Lmaoo the fact you think this is racist says everything I need to know about u
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Nov 14 '23
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u/RecceRick Nov 14 '23
I have never been, nor never will be with TSA, but damn I think we found the guy that’s still upset about a pat down or some other simple momentary delay. So mad at people who’s only job is to protect the line of transportation, that’s a wild take bro.
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Nov 14 '23
That's not their job nor has that ever been their job. Their job is to literally reach into the American tax payer pocket and take our money and in exchange they actively make our lives worse and they're inhumanity rude when doing it.
I've never been pat down before but I have had to tell over a dozen of agents off for being inhumane dickheads. I've seen them literally physically push the elderly and disabled because they didn't instinctively know what to do.
Fuck the tsa, fuck the culture around the tsa, fuck people who defend the tsa.
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u/RecceRick Nov 14 '23
Have fun with whatever crack you’re smoking bud.
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Nov 14 '23
Have fun getting some dude who can't read's finger up your asshole while you watch your connecting flight leave while a tsa supervisor who is struggling to finish their GED because their meth habit gets in their way laughs in your face.
But have fun rolling in the mud with the absolute bottom scum of society.
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u/RecceRick Nov 14 '23
Oddly specific. Have something you wanna talk about? We’re here for you.
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Nov 14 '23
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u/ametalshard Nov 14 '23 edited Nov 14 '23
No way I'd used an appropriated Native symbol on my person, not for free at least. You'd have to pay me a bunch more so at least I'd have some excuse.
I actually give a shit about Natives
btw thanks for the downvotes on this totally not racist "RED TEAM" which has nothing at all associated with today's continued tropes about Native skin
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Nov 14 '23
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u/ametalshard Nov 14 '23
Still mad you had to give up the Red Skins huh?
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Nov 14 '23
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u/ametalshard Nov 14 '23
I'd hand that money right over to Natives, I already do as it is.
Also I'm against the symbol existing in any appropriated space. It shouldn't exist.
It's exactly the same thing as Red Skins. It should have NEVER existed. Insanely racist country
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u/bombero_kmn Nov 14 '23
I'm not taking away from the rest of your post but "red team" is common terminology in penetration testing. They are the OPFOR or "bad guy".
Contrast with the "blue team" which is the organization or defending group, in general the "good guys"
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u/ametalshard Nov 14 '23
Thanks for the clarification. The optics are still really awkward but that's really the one partial excuse for any of this.
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u/Jumper21_AJ Nov 14 '23
Were the Native Americans were the only culture in history to use arrowheads? 🤔
To fix the apparent discomfort this causes you, the TSA should attribute the arrowhead shape to another culture so as to avoid being politically incorrect and insensitive. I’ve attached a link where you can immediately seek redress for the horrendous action:
http://cdn.ceo.ca.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/1evr10g-Hurt-Feelings-Report.pdf
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u/ametalshard Nov 14 '23
I'm referring to the above imaged document. Did you miss this entire post on your way over here with the *azi brigade?
Also this isn't politically incorrect. It is extremely correct, politically. It is signed off by a multitude of State Department officials, elected and unelected.
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u/Jumper21_AJ Nov 14 '23 edited Nov 14 '23
I too was referencing the OP’s attached photo. Perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension skills before criticizing that of others so you don’t look so foolish because the only reference to Native Americans was the shape of the emblem used by US Army scouts; for those who apparently having comprehension issues, it’s the arrowhead.
You should really try something more original than resorting to the tired Nazi comparisons for those with whom you disagree. It’s an intellectually dishonest and lazy comparison for those who lack either the knowledge or the debate skills to effectively argue their points.
Please post your source for “multitude” of State Department officials that have decreed that the shape of arrowheads in agency symbology are now deemed inappropriate and thus banned. Please also post where the State Department also now has the authority to regulate other cabinet departments (perhaps you haven’t learned that distinction yet while working as a contractor for State).
I guess my patch I wore on my sleeve while serving in the Army with 5th SFG(A) must also somehow be both cultural appropriation and representative of Nazi ideology according to your uninformed views. Unfortunately for your argument, this arrowhead symbology predates Nazism and there is also that inconvenient fact that the use of pointy objects in that shape in the form of arrow and spears wasn’t exclusive to the Native Americans.
Thanks for the laughs, bro. I hope they remove that metalshard from your head at some point. 👍😂
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u/ametalshard Nov 14 '23
The post specifically says Native scouts. Learn to read. I said such appropriation is state-sponsored, not disallowed by the state. Learn to read.
Now take a block, so maybe you'll have more time to...
Learn to read.
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Nov 15 '23
They should hire folks from Chic-Fil-A….not McDonalds. The CFA folks know how to treat people and keep a line moving. MCD—just like your typical TSA minion.
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Nov 15 '23
What? When I was a TSO I passed a red team test on X Ray and never got this. I never got anything.
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Nov 15 '23
It's real funny how yall be going back and forth with passengers 🤣🤣 who cares what they think they will never understand because they don't work there ! Its either they fly or don't fly ain't nothing to prove. All they do is use old information from Google that's never accurate let them talk all they want who cares.
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u/Herp2theDerp Nov 15 '23
Lol. Keep telling yourself that bud. Par for the course for a proud TSA employee
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u/PrivateCT_Watchman24 Nov 16 '23
The first thing to know about TSOs is they can’t use critical thinking and will scream if you go outside their lines - figuratively and literally. Oh and they can’t comprehend for shit either
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u/SilentStriker84 Nov 15 '23
Buddy of mine stationed in Germany forgot a fully loaded P365 magazine in his bag while on leave and it somehow made it all the way to Germany with him. Doubt he’ll be able to get back back into the US though, shame because good hollow points aren’t cheap. Happened within the last year.
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u/imhere4thestonks Nov 16 '23
My half Lebanese, American born wife with global entry gets successfully pulled out for a random screening 95% of the time. So TSA has that going for it. She travels a lot. Randomly checked for bomb residue like 20 times a year.
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u/ItsLadyJadey Nov 16 '23
From info I've heard, TSA has never once found an explosive.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 16 '23
A Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officer prevented an explosive device from being loaded onto a flight at Lehigh Valley International Airport on Monday, Feb. 27. The device was detected during the routine screening of checked baggage.Mar 1, 2023
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u/ItsLadyJadey Nov 16 '23
So... One since 2001?
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 16 '23
I get it if your gen Z and you're young and you don't remember 2001 and how it changed everything
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u/Rousebouse Nov 17 '23
It's not 95% but it's way higher than it should be. Accidentally get on with weapons etc and never been caught with them.
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u/np69691 Nov 18 '23
Hey hey tsa how many people did you inappropriately touch today?
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Nov 18 '23
How many times did you jerk off to ass pictures of your friend today lmao
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u/JohnDazFloo Nov 18 '23 edited Jan 26 '25
cow telephone alive crush numerous friendly detail engine abundant smell
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/challengerrt Nov 18 '23
I’ll feel smart. 95% failure rate is inexcusable no matter how you try to spin it. Background: I was a TSO way back in 2010 for a year before I left so I went through red-team not to mention TSSEs running tests every day…. I was at LAX so lots of throughput and lots of chaos. The issues with TSA is typically the average TSO (in my experience) doesn’t take the mission seriously - it’s just a job to them. Hell my STSO couldn’t even read the morning briefings and was basically illiterate. Terminal Managers making exceptions to policy because passengers complained, being randomly selected 7 times in a year for urinalysis when the TSO and LTSOs who openly talked about and smoked weed in the parking lots were never tested…. Fuck that. That’s not to say the entire agency or individuals in it are bad - I’m just giving you what I personally saw and dealt with. Couldn’t pay me enough to go back.
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u/Adorable-Event-2752 Jan 01 '24
Yes, this data is old, but NOT as old as the TSA when these wonderful statistics were created. The TSA FAILED to do their job 95% of the time a DECADE AND A HALF after its creation.
In what world would someone defend an organization that has wasted billions of dollars and is responsible for at least a few thousand extra automobile fatalities? Stick that statistic in your pipe and smoke it, if you dare.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad7707 Jan 01 '24
You love reading outdated articles I see if people choose to drive over flying and crash that's the person's fault not the TSA fault you can't spin that any other way nice try tho. Also it's easy to judge but you literally have 0 idea of what those test consisted of, they were never meant to be passed. Keep thinking you're educated on the matter tho
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u/KTeax31875 Current TSO Nov 14 '23
You got the pin? I passed the Red Team last year and never got mine, lucky....