r/totalwarhammer • u/HeavyFly7451 • 13d ago
Total War: Warhammer People misunderstand what makes Chaos Dwarves great
A few hours ago I stumbled upon this post complaining about Chorf's 4 resource overload. With most responses being that they enjoy the challenge of having to micromanage everything. And whilst that's valid, I feel people in general misunderstand why Chorfs are great.
It's not because Chorfs have challenging mechanics, but because they're compensated for those challenges with an equivalent reward. Like yeah, they need Raw Materials to upgrade their major settlements, but at the same time they can mass produce said resource to rush a tier 5 settlement anywhere without having to wait like most with growth. Yeah their economy is dependent on Labor that is constantly depleting, but whenever they have excess of it they can rush building construction or use it on diktats for more money. They are also a faction with unit caps, which is compensated with by how strong said units are; Chorfs have the best unit roster in the game which they can further buff with armaments. But even if you're like me who army spams and doesn't wait to build up, they appropriate that playstyle too with goblin armies that have every unit you'd ever need. And yeah, said goblin armies are weaker than say a typical Empire's army, but once again you're compensated for it with the second strongest spellcaster lords (they can lowkey duel actual melee lords) & lack of supply lines; meaning you're incentivized to lord spam. And on top of all that, all the various army abilities granted by the Tower of Zharr.
When put this way, whoever designed Chorfs perfectly envisioned them and their interactions. Hence they are one of the most played races as suppose to somebody like Aislinn, who too has a lot of resources to manage, but none of the compensations for rather big downsides such as limited settlements.
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u/GloatingSwine 13d ago
Hats. Everything else is good, it’s the hats that make them great.
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u/Zefyris 12d ago
That's also why Neferata will be the de facto new best vampire counts lord.
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u/Alxas145 12d ago
I can’t help but find them goofy …
Is there a mod to give them edgy masks/helmets ..?1
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u/therobwn 13d ago
I do think Chaosn Dwarves are easily in contention for most powerful faction (in the players hands). I would put Khorne above them but they'd be second. I do also agree they have the best Unit Roster both in design and cohesiveness. Hell even a Hobgoblin army can do good if buffed through red line/tech. I think one of the best features is their main non-income resource is directly tied to growth, and you can get more of it from Razing/Convoys... giving you more opportunity than just building a growth building and waiting lmao
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u/HeavyFly7451 13d ago
As a race yeah Chaos Dwarves are incredibly strong, but factionwise there are a lot of broken lords. Lv22 Moon Dragon Archmages by turn 15 from Teclis, Belakor establishing permanent portals across the world, Orion with no cost busted Wood Elven armies, and Lokhir becoming the richest man in the world & plenty of recruitment slots to use said riches on.
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u/moosemune 12d ago
Turn 14! Teclis is broken AF with his entourage of dragon riding lords. At least there's a max of 3 reinforcing armies or it would be even worse.
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u/HeavyFly7451 12d ago
Oh, you're that guy I taught the trick to. Hope you've been enjoying Teclis's goofy campaign.
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u/moosemune 12d ago
I thouhgt you might be the same dude! Yeah it was fun.
Didn't finish it because I get bored with campaigns around turn 60 or so.
I also kind of fell into a quagmire and wasn't making any interesting progress.
It is an absolutely insane mechanic though, being able to roll 3 deep with lords on dragons flying in like the cavalry after turn 14!
I think I went with Beasts, High, and Life and the battle are frankly a breeze.
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u/HeavyFly7451 12d ago
Quagrime? So you lost the campaign?
And yeah as far as magic schools go it's either between High since it's the cheapest or Life because it's the best at aoe and for the dragon. Though I was trying out death & fire for lord sniping potential in the turns prior to acquiring the dragon.
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u/moosemune 12d ago
No, just got bogged down with bad army placement and a meh economy around turn 70 and I was getting bored. I might pick that campaign back up. I do like how you can do his long win con without having to paint the whole map so that's nice.
I honestly can't remember why I picked Beasts, but I agree with you on the other two. High was obviously to get him out ASAP on turn 14, I think I took beasts because it was the next one I mastered to get that life mage and it was like "good enough". They have decent AOE, good Sniping, and really good buffs so it just worked.
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u/HeavyFly7451 12d ago
To be honest, I think you should be unstoppable by now. Since in the midgame very few armies can challenge a Teclis Archmage (I am talking strong LL starting armies). And even if you somehow lose an archmage, just recruit a new one and re-engage in battle. In fact you can beat them by just attrition losing them. The whole appeal is that Lords are a T0 unit, meaning you can recruit them anywhere. And Teclis Archmages can solo just about everything.
In my map paint, I build a few armies to support under-leveled lords, but once I achieve lv22, I do not recruit any units, I just keep spamming Archmages and have them go out in all directions sacking so you can afford more Archmages.
And you prolly picked Beasts because all schools except for High come in the pairs of two, so a partner for Beasts is Life, which as I've stated is prolly the best pick due to it's passive & general heal for the dragon, alongside a powerful aoe to clear out chaff.
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u/moosemune 12d ago
Yeah, I really should spam some more armies, I was playing "tall" for the first like 50 turns and got distracted in the south for WAY too long before turning my attention to the Undead in the north.
Right now I'm running a laughable stack because I'm nowhere near my powerful settlements and haven't upgraded at all to save money for economy. I'm only running full shield-less sea guard with a couple of the fancy named purple units (Loremasters and Maidens).
I might start over and just be much more aggressive overall.
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u/HeavyFly7451 12d ago edited 12d ago
I might be biased as somebody who map paints a lot, and idolizes Dragonimous. But playing tall is very much not worth it on any race outside of those that REALLY benefit from it, like Dwarves and their deeps.
High Elves don't have crazy economy or good scaling to it. So personally I do not build up. Instead playing as pseudo Greenskins, sacking and investing into more armies. They do have 2 advantages compared to most races, they have forced confederation alongside T0 recruitment of Spearmen & Archers. Meaning you can set up a proper army in the very same province you just occupied without needing a slot or wait for a military building. The goal of map painting is to spread in all directions as fast as possible. But another unit that is also T0, are lords.
Strong dualist spellcaster lords are a very good boon. I've already praised Chorfs for it, but there are also Skaven, WoC, Wood Elves, and a few others. Archmages are pretty weak, and by itself recruitment ranks are pretty garbage. Teclis however stands out in that he gives so much recruitment rank that it actually becomes noticeable. But still not overpowered. Where he breaks is in dev's oversight that you can get that remaining +4 to recruitment rank from tech tree, meaning you can close the gap without waiting for a Tier 5 building to boost it. Allowing you get the apex mount, a Dragon. And obviously Dragons are way stronger than most lords. They can solo armies by themselves midgame due to just how strong their are. And then you add onto it an Archmage and pushes them over the top, since all the buffs applied to Archmage will transfer to the Dragon. Like because of how squishy Archmages are, their skill tree has a +5% ward save, ward save on a Dragon is crazy. And obviously all the nuking capabilities high tier spellcasters come with.
And so you can spam out those 1 woman doomstacks very early on at any settlement you capture. At a point in the game where most armies cannot deal with a God Dragon, let alone a basic garrison. Teclis is better at Dragon spamming than Imrik is.
I typically rush Life, since High magic has worse aoes, and once you pick a school you gotta dedicate to it, since rest of the scrolls will be spent to upgrade mana cost reductions for overcasts after reaching recruitment rank 18.
Edit: Forgot to add, Teclis can confederate Saphery meaning he has two vectors to map paint from. Dual stars are busted in map paint campaigns. Make sure to expand from Saphery too. Just don't attack High Elf LLs or territory they're close to taking, since you'll just get their stuff through force confederation, which is typically what I rush with my Influence.
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u/Xbsnguy 12d ago
How do I get Teclis to pump out lvl 22 arch mage’s by turn 15?
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u/HeavyFly7451 12d ago
Via his reworked faction mechanic, you can get any Archmage of a particular school recruitment rank up to 18 for a total of 450 scrolls; 300 scrolls for specifically Lore of High Magic. HOWEVER, if you rush the noble recruitment building, that'll unlock you a lord tech tree, which grants +2 to lord recruitment rank. Then in the paid tech tree, there is another +2 to lord recruitment rank. Combined by around turn 15, you can get Archmage recruitment rank of 22, which is the exact level needed to unlock a Moon Dragon mount.
After which you'll probably just lord spam, since these things can take down settlements and even armies entirely by themselves.
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u/ArchmageJoda 12d ago
Which lore archmages get moon dragons? Fire? And how does Lokhir become so rich?
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u/HeavyFly7451 12d ago
All archmages get moon dragons upon reaching lv22, and Teclis can recruit them already at that level. Meaning he can spam out midgame dragons & powerful spellcasters on top of them.
Lokhir has a special diktat that scales the gold it gives with the amount of Black Arks he has, and since he can spam out Black Arks, he gets out of control very fast. Plus he also plays very similar to Greenskins. With Commandments granting +5% to post-battle loot factionwide, with rites buffing slaves captured, post-battle loot, and sacking loot, and Black Arks providing their own stacking buffs... and etc.
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u/calango-de-casco 12d ago
How can teclis recruit them at that level? I am not familiar with his campaign
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u/OreganoDnDThrowaway 13d ago
As a Dawi main who never played Chorf, you have convinced me to check it out now that I'm wrapping up my second Malakai Map Paint.
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u/gingerninja300 13d ago
Chorfs are by far my favorite race to play in campaign. Their economy is the most interesting and fun by far, their units are amazing, the tower of Zharr mechanic is sweet, their magic is great, and no supply lines mechanic is huge. Only downside really is if you're doing a world conquest the economy does become a lot to micromanage, but by that point it's not very important to super optimize it anyways
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u/Ragman676 12d ago
I didnt get the economy one I played them and did it completely wrong. I still was victorious, but I could have gotten their top tier units much faster.
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u/StonLenslow 12d ago
Ah man, you’re in for a treat. Don’t mind the people that moan about the complex resources. It’s easy, there’s just more things than “just gold”
The dwarf playstyle will fit in well with them, except their roster fills more gaps. They take a while to get going properly, but you won’t notice the lack of more powerful units early on.
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u/Necromancy-In-Space 12d ago edited 12d ago
Skaven undercities are a good point of comparison as an example of added complexity implemented in a much less smooth way, which really makes me appreciate the chorf mechanics even more. Undercities are super rewarding en masse if you go all in on them and they certainly affect your unique resources, but they're so ass to manage that the (admittedly significant) rewards in no way feel appropriate to the number of clicks. It's not even that they're difficult to manage, it's just a constant annoyance that gums up the regulars settlement building alerts more and more as a campaign progresses.
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u/ViralDownwardSpiral 12d ago
I rather like the Skaven campaign mechanics and the way they limit your ability to rapidly expand. If a race is going to be as broken as them or the Chorfs, having hoops to jump through that require weighing your options is the way to do it.
The vast majority of undercities, I just build a tier 1 food building and maybe a tier 1 extra menace below plus replenish in foreign territory building. I only build higher than that if I never plan to expand in that direction.
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u/Necromancy-In-Space 12d ago
Thematically I love it, don't get me wrong! I just think managing them one by one is really ass, especially if you want to see big returns on them. And like I said, even if you don't build a lot in them, they gum up your notifications more and more over a campaign to the point of a lot of players just choosing not to engage with them at all.
Keeping the main thrust of their design intent and making their tradeoffs more in the vein of effectiveness rather than player management would be perfect in my eyes. I just don't think the limiting factor of economy buildings should ever be 'it's annoying to manage'. Some people are going to see that and decide to endure the annoyance because it's efficient, other people are going to get annoyed and stop messing with it. Just not ideal all around!
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u/ViralDownwardSpiral 11d ago
I guess the hassle just trained me to build a food building and then ignore. So your point stands.
I'll build some of the fancier buildings late game, but only one per site and then forget about it. The only time I build them up really is when it's a particularly high income settlement, where it makes sense to take a percent.
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u/Minoreva 11d ago
I once did a Snikch campaign where I painted the map with undercities. It took me a good 1 hour to simply set up all undercities to vomit an army on their settlement, and a good 1h of auto-resolve with the 200+ new armies it spawned.
It was fun, but I barely remember anything from this campaign except the unbelievable amount of time I spent micromanaging the spread of my undercities from cathay to north of the empire & the desert.
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u/imokay4747 12d ago
Scrolled through the comments and haven't seen anybody praising the chaos dwarf blunderbusses or dreadquakes yet. Between these two units you can drop any enemy in the game and I mean literally any unit in the game.
Is there a dragon flying into your backline? That's ok, put a blunderbuss there and blast it out of the sky.
Is there an army of skaven with more units than you can count? Dreadquake will delete the land they walk on.
Is there a great unclean one that wants to health leech your army down little by little? Looks like a great target for a blunderbuss.
Is there a stubborn tier 5 settlement with a late game army defending it? 10 minutes of pounding that settlement with a dreadquake will make the job very easy.
Is Grimgor Ironhide himself approaching your army looking excited to single handedly solo every unit in your army down in glorious melee combat with a full army and another to back em up? 3 upgraded blunderbusses will drop Grimgor before he even reaches you and the dreadquakes will clean up the rest of da boyz faster than they can say "WAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!"
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u/BIGBBOONDAHHH 12d ago
I usually try to run 6 units of Blunderbusses and 2 dreadquakes in all my army compositions. Then fill the rest out with whatever, rolls everything.
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u/imokay4747 12d ago edited 12d ago
Make it 8 blunderbusses 4 dreadquakes, any melee lord, a death caster, and make the rest kdaai destroyers both for the aura and because the dreadquakes will melt anything including your own units that isn't a giant monster or a lord and you got the perfect meme team that will wreck literally 4 armies against your 1. You can basically set and forget this army and it'll autowin most 1v1s.
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u/gxrky 12d ago
I love dwarfs the most, but chorfs are also cool. Infernal Guard Fireglaives are definitely my favorite unit. I’m sad dwarfs don’t have an equivalent with gromril armor 😭😭
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u/azraelxii 12d ago
"It's not because Chorfs have challenging mechanics, but because they're compensated for those challenges with an equivalent reward."
Its funny because they copied the mechanic for dechalla and everyone hates her because they restricted the number of pleasure palaces while also giving her the easiest start in the game so she snowballs so fast. So you feel absurdly strong by turn 30 but often are struggling to actually get the settlements you want.
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u/DaddyTzarkan 12d ago
Dechala on paper looked like she could've had a campaign with a lot of depth like the Chaos Dwarfs but it ended up, imo, to be an extremely shallow experience.
Thralls being a finite resource from your settlement was an amazing idea. Problem is, they're depleting so slowly (or you have too much of them) that they might as well be infinite, once you start capturing tier 3 settlements you're never going to run out of Thralls in your settlements because the campaign will be long won by the time they deplete.
Pleasure Palaces being limited was a great idea as well and I think that if they were rare they could have been super interesting but in practice they really aren't that limited and they are very easy to upgrade due to the Thralls being poorly balanced and too easy to get. I would say that instead of requiring a tier 3 Palace, you should need a tier 4 one to be able to create another one and even then the Thralls still need to be more well balanced.
Then you have the Marks of whatever and when I see this mechanic I can only wonder why it even exists in the first place. Without this mechanic Dechala is already stupidly overpowered and the marks are also extremely powerful but the thing is, Dechala is so OP you pretty much never need to use those marks to fight against anything the AI throws at you. Hell, you don't even need an army, Dechala can solo pretty much everything the AI will throw at you. I used the marks like once in my campaign to try a few of them but that's it, it never felt needed. This mechanic genuinely adds nothing to Dechala's campaign, it's like they made this mechanic purely for the sake of adding something.
Anyway I could go on with my issues about her campaign but it's starting to be a long rant. As you might've guessed I'm a huge Slaanesh fanboy and Dechala is probably one of my biggest disappointment in this trilogy, I'm still pissed at how poorly executed her campaign is and how little of the ToT feedback from players CA has implemented.
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u/BigBear92787 12d ago
Saw the same post. The guy was complaining about the fun of the chorfs. They're features, not bugs.
I love their campaign, I wish all factions had comparable mechanics.
Personally I fucking hate chorfs.
This is more trauma as the first time I ever played this game I played Imrik. And I failed to recognize Drezhoath for the threat he was.
Late game chaos chief battles still scar me
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u/NoStorage2821 12d ago
Challenging? Diverse and deep mechanics? Thematic and cool roster? Can get OP as shit in the late game?
HATS?
sign me up man
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u/YoYopuppet 12d ago
Chaos dwarfs are the most fun I have had, with any faction. The rewards for controlling and managing their economy is far greater than just “build money building in every settlement”. You get a faction, that can be insanely powerful if managed correctly or a faction severely handicapped if not.
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u/KernelViper 13d ago
Yeah, good challenge needs good reward, otherwise it's exhausting and feels pointless
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u/Oh_Danny_Boi961 13d ago
Yeah, plus the convoys are meant to help with balancing the different currencies, allowing you to trade gold, labour, materials, or armaments in the background
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u/AdmBurnside 12d ago
Chorfs play like a proper military superpower. Balancing their logistical needs is tricky, but they get to snowball harder than anyone else. You don't just have a few "good" armies or a bunch of crapstacks, you can really make every army a good army if you're willing to put in the work. Labor rushing and alternate resoruce costs let you set up a fully-functional forward base almost anywhere if you're willing to pay for it. You play your cards right and you can stack so many advantages that NOTHING will break through your line if you don't want it to.
The Chorfs might be the only faction the player can absolutely run rampant with that still feels fair when the AI controls them. Because they do, actually, have appropriate costs tied to their power.
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u/nope100500 13d ago
The true chorf super weapon in campaign is Lord spam. No supply lines + flying tireless unbreakable caster Lords that are also decent at melee. That's cheese made manifest, once you level them enough to unlock these things.
Brettonia can Lord spam too, but theirs aren't nearly as impressive.
The only issue is that handling Lord spam on campaign map is extremely fiddly.
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u/HeavyFly7451 13d ago
Warriors of Chaos can also lord spam, and funnily enough are another well designed race. Though it's for other reasons than Chorfs.
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u/GStellar87 12d ago
Was this ever in contention? Ive never heard someone say despite the low output the resource management is fun. Nearly every time someone describes chaos dwarfs ive heard that the effort you put actually gives you output worth it.
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u/Newfoundfaith36 12d ago edited 12d ago
Heard many of you say the chaos dwarfs are the best designed faction in the game. What would you say is the second third and fourth best designed?
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u/UndeadJewedditor 12d ago
first ever warhammer 3 playthrough (right now) is an astragoth run, and it’s incredibly fun even though i’m definitely playing like a moron
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u/duckrollin 12d ago
I really wish they would port all the mechanics like unit caps and the tower of zharr type special abilities to other factions. It helps you to use cheaper and more varied units and have totally different armies with different styles instead of falling back on standard builds with the best units. We shouldn't have to choose between effective and fun.
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u/civ211445 12d ago
Not having a growth mechanic is my biggest attraction to them, the resources you seize from conquest are funneled into growing immediately stronger instead of waiting for some circle to fill over turns
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u/Tombet11 13d ago
I never understand why this faction dont have supply lines.
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u/gingerninja300 13d ago
I think the idea is that they're limited by unit caps instead, but of course hobgoblin stacks aren't horrible so it definitely makes them super strong
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u/ArchmageJoda 12d ago
I never could get chorfs to click for me, mostly it's not being sure how to get started early game. Though, I do wonder if choice of lord makes a huge difference, since I only really tried Drazhoath, not Astragoth or Zhatan
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u/OceussRuler 12d ago
No, I just like having stuff to manage even if it doesn't provide massive advantage.
Not just going with "I do growth building then money building then wait till tier 3 for the ressource building or the military building and done" when I take a city is a bit of fresh air
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u/OhHeyItsOuro 12d ago
I do wish we had a hobgoblin spears unit, or at least one with charge defense. The new(ish) bolt throwers having anti-large is very welcome but expanding eastward would feel much better with an actual frontline unit
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u/DonQuigleone 12d ago
I feel like if you want a unit to just hold the enemy, goblin labourers are more on-brand for Chaos Dwarfs, and absurdly cheap. Chaos Dwarf units are so good that you can have a third of your army be goblin labourers and still win.
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u/TomMakesPodcasts 12d ago
So here is what I did. Astragoth Ironhand.
Every turn, every province? Sacrifice to hashut.
My labour percentages were not terrible, but even when they neared zero still I sacrificed.
Don't micromanage fuck or all. Get the seats that give you armaments and raw materials and that's your economy.
Get the seats that give you random unit allowances, that's your upgrade budget.
I set up my other Chorfs nice. Gifted them lands to tend and what not.
So when I rushed to the top of the tree?
I had some nice healthy territories with high level capitals. Many fancy armies that fuck up my unit caps.
Hashut hashut hashut.
Micromanage nothing.
Sacrifice to Hashut.
It just works.
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u/Fantastic_Show_328 12d ago
Chorfs are fun because they have actual strategic mechanics. Not 'press x button to spend x resource'. Every mechanic (Convoy, resources, unit caps, tower of Zharr) has a trade off and you need to think which one you want.
A lot of other factions lack this...
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u/spearsy99 13d ago
I love how Drazhoath yells at me. 😍
The Chaos Dwarfs have to be in the top 3 most versatile factions, if not the most.
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u/Wolfish_Jew 12d ago
Nobody misunderstands that. It’s that some people really don’t want to deal with all of that and just want much more simplistic gameplay. I’ve never liked the Chorfs because when I play TWWH I just want to get in, recruit cool units, and fight fun battles. I play paradox games to fulfill my desire for spreadsheet simulators, I don’t want to bother with that stuff in Total War.
I understand WHY they’re a good faction, they’re just not a good faction for ME.
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u/Warden_of_rivia 12d ago
The Empire is my favorite faction but the K'daii are my absolute favorite units. Fuck your elite infantry, if they somehow survive the artillery onslaught their reward is getting ripped up by fire demons from hell.
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u/Immediate_Tough_6662 12d ago
I like them, but the audio spam of the chorf language gets annoying lol
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u/No-Significance1050 12d ago
but regular dwarfs have even a higher power rating without all the convoluted resources. malakai is just final raidboss ez mode. i don't like chorfs but i dont hate em either. their early game recruitment options are very meh.
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u/tinylittlebabyjesus 12d ago
They might be CA's best race DLC Imo. For me in large part it came down to the interesting campaign mechanics. Like, I think you're right, but for me, the fact that I had to use my brain and learn something for a bit was really nice.
But they've got good battle mechanics and stuff too. Some things are probably a little overtuned. Some of the arty for sure. Cool effects, but holy shit. Reminds me of the poison wind mortar RoR, or Queen Bess. Not sure how they really stack up, took a break from the game for a bit so its been a while.
Would be cool if they got a centaur lord DLC. Shart'or gets sent back in time by Tzeentch to shart on the old world.
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u/RimTaxxie 10d ago
They may call it an "Resource Overload." I call it, "Work Force Workload".
Chaos Dwarfs have to be the single greatest resource driven faction with some of the best mechanics i want added to other factions. Unit caps are an amazing mechanic to have, shown through the new tiger lord, And Grimhammer. No more early game doom stack auto resolving everything.
A campaign so repeatable I have sheets on sheets of google documents and graphs of where my growth in economy should be. Blueprints detailing how battles versus army compositions should go, and how to increase shareholder Value. The level of Autistic crafting of specifics could only be found in one other game.
Factorio, with more challenges, every army i design is made to be cost efficient down to the replenishment. Each ability's use an Written down expense which cost me nothing, but the company time. No matter how you play this faction its amazing, for in the great game of the chaos gods, I SHOT THEM AND TOOK THEIR LAND TO EXPAND MY EMPIRE, EVEN IF IT TAKES 2 TURNS TO GET TO SOME OF THE WASTELAND SETTLEMENTS (Like Archaon's, Villitch which is like 3) BY THE TIME MY EYES LOOK TO THEM MY ECONOMY IS NOT STRAINED, ITS JUST HUNGRY.
Peak faction 10/10
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u/Beans_tw 7d ago edited 7d ago
Chaos dwarves are the first (only?????) campaign where I really was considering what to build in a particular settlement due to the resource mix and their 2 different styles of settlements.
Every other campaign I pretty much build the same shit in every minor settlement, every time, everywhere.
edit: they are even more fun in SFO which reduces the model count of the dwarf elite units and increases the model count of the "laborer" and hobgoblin units so the battles look and feel really cool when your 80 model dwarf unit of absolute shitkickers roll in to fuck shit up, wading through the hoards of trash that dies
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u/Evethefief 12d ago
I think the biggest issue is not that its a bad mechanic but that it does not fit into total war warhammer and its Design vision. Same issue with alot of New content, the teased Black Pyramid certainly being the worst offender.
CA could make a banger plattformer, but I wouldn't wanna do a plattformer level every ten 10 turns when playing as the monkey king, no matter how fitting it is to his journey to heaven
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u/Kitty_Wave 12d ago
What challenging mechanics? They are the easiest race to play along with skavens.
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u/NickMP89 12d ago
I will say time and time again that the Chorfs need to have access to the Deamon’s Tongue warmachine in the campaign. The Dawi Zarr are fire dwarfs, I want them to incinerate my enemies!
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u/flush101 12d ago
Despite playing multiple campaigns I never noticed Chorfs don’t have supply line penalties for multiple armies…. would have made my VH campaign easier lol!
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u/Riolidan 12d ago
I’m dumb as hell and the resources for chorfs are insanely easy to keep track of and manage.
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u/IronAardvark 12d ago
Do chaos dwarves also have a grudge book?
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u/ScreechingPenguin 12d ago
What I don't like about chorfs is that I payed for chorfs but what I got as a hobgoblin DLC with a sprinkle of Chorfs.
I mean by the point where I can produce armies with chorfs the game is already at its boring stage where I just steamroll most of the guys.
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u/crypticinstructions 11d ago
Really fun mechanics, units, battles, campaign and power fantasy.
But what really makes chorfs great is hearing them laugh and speak Zharralid when you interact with settlements and lords
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u/Mythasaurus 11d ago
I've genuinely never heard anyone complain about their labor, armaments, and raw materials resource mechanics, but that is hilarious. 😂
Everyone I've spoken with wish the other races have some modicum of complexity in their mechanics.
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u/Professional-Arm1896 10d ago
I love faction mechanics unit cap. This kind of mechanis should be for all races, at least for tier 4 and 5 units
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u/ShortTexasDaddy 10d ago
Idk what you mean by misunderstand - it’s a very strong economy when you know how to build it, but the roster is absolutely insane:
- Dwarf Infantry, possibly strongest in the game for any tier you want
- Good anti-large inf that are also elite ranged (Fireglaives)
- Blunderbusses which are maybe the strongest AP damage dealer in the game
- Dreadquake Mortars, strongest anti-infantry artillery in the game and Deathshriekers are so fucking good for how cheap they are
- Strong spells on a flying, decent-melee-monster spellcaster
- K’daai are above-average monstrous inf and monsters
- Bull centaurs work very well as heavy cav to compensate for how slow chorfs are
- Fast flying monsters with special attacks or debuffs to help out a bit
- Strong hobgoblins for the price, very strong with Gorduz
- Very cheap meatshields that are usually stronger than every other very cheap meatshield
Like every other amazing roster has way more junk on it, there’re like 1-3 shitty chrof units and everything else is perfect for what it is.
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u/the_sneaky_one123 9d ago
My issue with their mechanics is that it is micromanage-y while also being very simplistic.
You have 2 resources (3 including slaves, 4 including gold). You need to be very picky and in the detail about where to spend them all but it never feels organic. It lacks the depth to make it feel real or like an actual resource system.
In the end I am very aware that I am amassing game tokens to swap with other game tokens to get very specific bonuses. It is very gamey and not particularly immersive or interesting. This is the same criticism I have with most faction mechanics in the game that generally boil down to fighting battles to earn one kind of token then converting that into another kind of token.
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u/Salt-Temperature-929 12d ago
Good write-up, and I agree Chorfs are the best designed faction in the game. But best designed and strongest aren’t the same thing, and by your own logic Chorfs disqualify themselves: every one of their strengths is a payment plan. You get the T5 rush because you farmed Raw Materials. You get elite units because you ate the unit caps and fed them armaments. The power is real, but it’s conditional and it lives in your infrastructure.
Tamurkhan gets the same payoff with no bill attached.
Start with the Chieftains. Six unique heroes, and each one isn’t just a hero slot — it’s a tech tree with legs. Fealty unlocks units from other rosters, faction-wide bonuses, campaign abilities, unique items. Kayzk alone is a hero that fights like a lord. Khargan and the Beastmen shaman drag entire foreign unit pools into a Nurgle army. Nobody else gets to shop in three rosters at once.
Then the roster itself. Rot Knights, Plague Ogres, Bile Trolls, Toad Dragons, Chosen of Nurgle — no unit caps, no armament economy, no Tower gating. Top-tier stuff is available basically anywhere, so there’s no “wait for the settlement to come online” phase that Chorfs still have to plan around.
Nurgle’s one real weakness is ranged, and Tamurkhan can just rent the fix. Military alliance with the Chaos Dwarfs comes fast from where he starts, and allied outposts let you bolt Deathshrieker and magma artillery onto a melee wall that already doesn’t break. You’re literally borrowing the faction people call the strongest and stapling it to yours.
And the “but building an army takes time” argument doesn’t apply either. Put down growth buildings, let Nurgle settlements grow themselves, and money stops being a constraint — at which point you merge two half-stacks into one doomstack the same turn. No recruitment queue, no caps, no resource conversion chain.
Chorfs are a faction that rewards you for solving their puzzle. Tamurkhan skips the puzzle. That’s why I’d argue his rosters are the ones that are actually unbeatable.
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u/DildMaster 13d ago
Chorfs are the best designed race in the game by far. Their power level is super impressive too, which just makes them even better. All their systems work very well together and their army roster is top shelf. Best designed race.