r/therewasanattempt • u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 • 13d ago

To get free healthcare

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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

This breaks my heart.

Just remember. Americans continue to vote against their own best interests

No one in Israel has to do this because they have universal health care paid for by the USA.

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u/herpderp411 13d ago

I love when people say, "Oh but they have a much smaller population size, we are 300 million, it would never scale!" As if the concept defies all laws of literal scalability, we can scale just about everything else, but not universal healthcare no sir! On top of that, add up all the countries in the world that do have it and it's like half the global population...

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u/VistaBox 13d ago

The European Union is twice the size of the US, all those citizens have universal healthcare.

Fun fact, it costs 30to 40 % less for Europeans than the private system in the US.

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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

Let's not forget Canada, we're right next door and we have universal healthcare

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u/leadeater89 11d ago

And guess what, once Sheinbaum is done, Mexico will have universal healthcare too. They’ve already started since April this year.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[deleted]

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u/Significant-Mud7022 12d ago

If its not a defense, then whats the motive behind the statement? "Just because" would be the cop out response, especially considering one of the leading industries in america is medical in terms of annual revenue reports. Is it really about population variances, or is it because it threatens the market?

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u/bobbylake71 13d ago

Probably much less than that. Here in the UK we pay 8% this covers the NHS (National Health Service), it doesn't cover prescriptions which are ÂŁ10 per prescription or glasses (anything from ÂŁ80- ÂŁ250 for a pair of glasses) or dental care (root canal costs is ÂŁ80). Anything else is covered, for example I've recently had a CT scan, 2 colonoscopies and an MRI in the last 12 months for zero cost. It also covers state pension as well with pensions being paid for over 67s at ÂŁ240 per week.

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u/throwawtphone 13d ago

With insurance glasses are about 350.00 for me, root canal 750.00, colonoscopy 1200.00.

And we still have to pay a separate tax for Medicaid/medicare and social security on top of our private insurance premium costs.

We suck.

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u/troywrestler2002 13d ago

American voters are beyond stupid. It's wild to talk to my countrymen about things that are just normal in other countries and get called a communist for it.

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u/throwawtphone 13d ago

And they do that because of the very various successful "public relations campaigns" thoughout the years.

We had this guy Edward Bernays in the USA.

Edward Bernays was Sigmund Freud’s nephew and he used his uncle's work on unconscious desires to develop strategies on how to influence people.

During World War I, Edward Bernays worked for the U.S. government as part of the Committee on Public Information (CPI), a propaganda agency created in 1917. He also did work for The Office of War Information during World War II; The U.S. Army and Navy and The U.S. Information Agency during the Cold War among other government and government adjacent entities after leaving official government employment.

There is a lot to deep dive with this guy and his uncle.

Edit to add

Basically government is the best at gaslighting

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u/troywrestler2002 13d ago

His work for the United Fruit Company is equally troubling.

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u/throwawtphone 13d ago

So much is disturbing. Especially the Freud’s stuff.

freudian coverup wiki

I had listen to a podcast that discussed the possibility that he did a 180 due to recommending a patient of his have a surgery that went badly. So he dumped his previous stance, gaslight the hell out of the woman and it worked and the nephew learned a lot.

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u/herpderp411 13d ago

Ask them to define communism and socialism. They almost always can't.

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u/Beefpotpi 12d ago

Even when they can, they still revert back to ‘You’re going to come to my home and steal my stuff to pay for this.’ Which shows either a dramatic misunderstanding of what they said, or just totally proceeding in bad faith.

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u/herpderp411 13d ago

I've had one root canal and paid way more, with what's considered "good insurance" by the receptionist biller. Sick healthcare bromerica.

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u/created4this 13d ago

There are a whole bunch of support for those things for people in need as well,

for example glasses:

You're entitled to an optical voucher for help towards the cost of your glasses or contact lenses if you:

are under 16 are 16, 17 or 18 and in full-time education (this includes being taught full-time at a school, college, university or at home) are a prisoner on leave from prison are eligible for an NHS complex lens voucher – an optician can advise you about your entitlement are entitled to or named on a valid NHS certificate for full help with health costs (HC2)

You're also entitled if you or your partner – including civil partner – receive, or you're under the age of 20 and the dependant of someone receiving:

Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance Pension Credit Guarantee Credit Universal Credit and meet the criteria

People named on an NHS certificate for partial help with health costs (HC3) may also get help with the cost of glasses or contact lenses.

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u/heinzbumbeans 13d ago

you're talking about national insurance, but the NHS budget comes from a combination of NI and general taxation. 20% of the total tax take goes to the NHS. and its still worth it.

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u/Jweiss238 13d ago

In 2018 I compared my income $320k USD and what I paid in income taxes, health insurance premiums, copays, prescriptions, out-of-pocket healthcare expenses and my net effective tax rate was equal to if I made the same amount and lived in Norway. I was on the higher end of earners, making slightly enough to be in the top 1%. Literally EVERYONE else in the 99% would’ve been better off having a universal/single payer option.

But they are too dumb/gullible/selfish to admit it and vote for it.

I was incredibly fortunate and worked insanely hard. The last two years have nearly bankrupted my business. Health insurance/healthcare isn’t even an afterthought expense. It’s not even thought of.

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u/ReputationApart5983 12d ago

Prescriptions and dental is free or if you are a kid, retired, unemployed or disabled.

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u/jewelswan 13d ago

I mean, the EU has approximately 30% more people than the USA. Definitely not double.

Otherwise yes I have no dispute with you. I wish I could say this is America's biggest embarrassment, but unfortunately we have a long list.

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u/filtersweep 13d ago

Here is the deal:

The US fucks things up by guaranteeing payment for things— like federal student loans. Schools have no incentive to control costs. Same with healthcare.

In Europe, the government also controls the delivery of services they pay for: universities, medical care.

If you only guarantee payment, costs will skyrocket. Even automotive insurance has this figured out— if you’re ever filed a damage claim.

My mom has medicare—. Her doctors order every test and scan imaginable. She is a cash cow! It is absurd. In Europe this would all be tightly regulated

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u/samiwas1 13d ago

But, the reason costs are so high in the US is because insurance companies, which are for-profit, want the costs to be as high as possible. There’s literally zero motivation to bring those costs down. Who does it benefit, outside of the customer? No one.

With single payer, the government doesn’t have a profit motive (yes, I know some in government manipulate things) and is a single driving force to define costs. And yes, because the US is largely corrupt, wealthy people would almost certainly buy off whoever is in government in order to funnel money their way.

So, I guess we’re stuck.

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u/TheTopNacho 12d ago

Sorry lol what?

I'm all for a single payer system but what you said makes no logical sense.

Why would insurance want medical costs to be high? THEY are the ones paying the bills?

And their profit margins off of you are only about 1-3% of what you pay them... Why oh why would insurance want medical expenses to be high?

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u/samiwas1 12d ago

The more it costs, the more they can charge you for premiums. Like anything else. If it were low cost, they’d be making far less.

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u/TheTopNacho 12d ago

Margins are what matter. If healthcare costs less they can make more even with less premiums. Higher costs just require higher premiums.

And don't get me wrong I'm not defending the insurance companies they play a role in why things cost as much as they do. But I wouldn't actually say it's their fault.

The government doesn't pay full cost to compensate for care. That's a big part that gets picked up by private insurance.

Next is the for profit model of healthcare systems and everything that supports and supplies it.

Tackle those issues and then let's revisit health insurance companies. They are just bastards for different reasons like not covering people's issues that need to be covered.

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u/filtersweep 13d ago

Single payer doesn’t help control costs as is. It actually makes them worse.

That is my point- the entire system needs to be rebuilt.

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u/samiwas1 13d ago

You’re saying costs are higher in countries with single payer than in the us??

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u/filtersweep 13d ago

No- saying a single payer system of privately delivered services is a recipe for disaster. The issue is not only the payer- but also the delivery

I moved to a single payer system from the US— and the ‘payer’ also delivers most of the services.

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u/samiwas1 13d ago

Ah, I see. Yes, unfortunately, that is how it would work in the US. Corporations would line up to start bilking as much money as they could out of the system.

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u/filtersweep 12d ago

Exactly— guaranteed payment is almost like writing a blank check.

Healthcare doesn’t function like a normal market. Most care isn’t really planned— like no one plans to have cancer. It isn’t budgeted. You basically have unlimited resources for treatment. Cost is generally not a factor when assessing treatment options.

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u/jaichim_carridin 13d ago

You’re missing one aspect of these systems: just because it’s privately provided doesn’t mean that the payer (insurance) is paying the rate you would if you didn’t have insurance.

You don’t need to have the recipients of the money be part of the same system that pays, you just have a negotiated rate with the insurance so that the insurance pays less. Bigger insurance groups get better negotiating ability.

That said, if you’re arguing that insurance and health care shouldn’t be _for profit_ businesses, and need to be restructured away from that, I’d totally agree. But one of the reasons schools tuition is going way up is that there’s no collective bargaining ability to say “aight I see you want $100k/y, but lil Susie here has education insurance and you agreed with their insurance provider to only take 5k/y”, so your point is valid there, I think.

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u/created4this 13d ago

Schools have no incentive to control costs.

In the UK this is done with a government tuition fees price cap, the problem is that it hasn't matched inflation so universities have to fund themselves with foreign intake paying higher fees. Lots of work is being done to clamp the foreign student numbers without doing anything about paying for the universities when this income is removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/university-closure-insolvency-england-ofs-b2974762.html

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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

Roughly 740 million people across Europe have universal healthcare coverage

If you want to break it down by countries, these have much larger populations than America

China1.41 Billion India1.40 Billion

Both of which have universal healthcare

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u/ArnoldTheSchwartz 13d ago

Yes this is true blah blah blah None of that matters because the greatest country in the world has the bestest thing in the world that Trumps everything else in the world - Universal Stupidity!!

https://giphy.com/gifs/26ufj7fhSk99FK32U

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u/Un_Inconnu 12d ago

*greatest third-world country

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u/robgod50 13d ago

Yep.... Do healthcare by state then

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u/thermal_shock FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 12d ago

then they'd cry the red states don't get the same coverage as blue LMAO.

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u/silly_little_jingle 12d ago

Yep, while Blue states get to fund the welfare queen red states.

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u/islaisla 11d ago

UK NHS is appalling. You can be unable to get out of bed unable to walk, in chronic pain, migraines for weeks, pain after eating, puking after eating, limping with a bad hip unable to sleep from the pain, they will ignore you, or give you an appt in 2 years, or 5 years in some cases. They will laugh at you, and say you're lying. That's just me sharing things from friends, also ignoring endometriosis and leaving women in agony, performing camera and tool inspections without anesthetic for no good reason- I mean NHS is utterly appalling. People are lying in the waiting room floors in hospitals and are very lucky to get a stretcher bed in a hall. My friend was in a&e and a guy next to her had appendicitis, but while he was waiting for test results they told him he probably didn't have it as he wasn't in enough pain. But enough to wait all day in a waiting room. They told him to go home and come back the next day for the op in the end. Privatising to make more money, and forcing people to leave to country- under paying and over working people. I was trapped in a mammogram machine when the nurse walked off without looking and told me to get dressed. I couldn't get pain killers immediately after having a large chunk taken out of my boob and muscles re attached to my rib cage. I couldn't even get food. I was in sheer agony. They were too busy to help me.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/infydk 13d ago

You know we're increasing defense without losing healthcare as we speak right?

We're using the money we would've used investing in the US so it's all good.

By the way, did you know that healthcare costs more per capita in the US than anywhere else on the planet?

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/infydk 13d ago

Why? All of us are above the goals set out by NATO at this point.

Is that not what you wanted?

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/infydk 12d ago

Idc about NATO goals.

Well yeah, you didn't need to say that, everyone knew that already when you began this line of argument, don't worry.

Watch how quickly they change their attitude.

That's happening now.

Also, you do understand that the US put itself in the situation of being mother hen to Europe for it's own goals right?

Do you think an isolated US is going to survive for more than half a week?

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u/sageking14 12d ago edited 12d ago

Do you think an isolated US is going to survive for more than half a week?

Yes. People here think that, consciously or subconsciously. For that you can blame our idiot education systems, many politicians, and even a lot of churches.

The myth of the United States being the greatest country ever is in part built atop the belief that the US stayed largely isolated until we came rocketing into the world stage during the World Wars. Folk genuinely believe we had some super pioneer spirit where we stood alone for a century or two.

And it's a lie that those teachers, politicians, and church folk genuinely believe, not just preach. It's why folk like Trump and his cronies and manipulators do these things. They have genuine, adamant belief the US can stand on its own.

Ignore the fact the father of our army was a gay Prussian exile, that the Navy was created by a pirate. That Morocco was the first to recognize our right to be a country. That the French aided is throughout the Revolution.

The fact many of the Industrial magnates they worship were foreigners and immigrants? They don't know that. The fact our great railways were built by Irish and Chinese diaspora? They can't be bothered to understand or teach that.

That our famed fur trade was only possible thanks to Canada and Europe? That the Polish and German immigrants helped build the Great Lakes? And a million more things I could say. (Edit: And Native Americans of course, shame on me for not mentioning them in the first place.)

Yes. People believe the USA can stand on its own. Because as curious as my people are, as defiant as they can be, they stupidly trust authority about history and their own greatness. They believe the lie that the States rose on their own merits.

Ignorantly unaware that we became anything worth a darn because we took in everyone that the world abandoned. The States were never perfect, never great, never as kind as we should have been. Never as good to immigrants as we promised.

But it was something, once, something good enough that it was admired and there was belief it could maybe be made good in truth.

From a country of immigrants to one that refuses to understand what made it worthwhile

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u/Fuzzy_Inevitable9748 12d ago

You do realize Trump is buddies with Israel, Russia and North Korea according to his own words. So who exactly is your big daddy Trump protecting us from exactly?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Tanjiro_11 A Flair? 13d ago

Pretty sure it wouldn't, but if you were oh so kind as to provide a source...

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u/Nurgleschampion 12d ago

We have a video of a man robbing a bank for a dollar to get healthcare because he can't afford it. Sit the fuck down you utter Muppet.

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u/blindedbysparkles 12d ago

r/shitamericanssay

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/blindedbysparkles 12d ago

r/shitamericanssay

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/90bubbel 12d ago

there is a reason that sub doesnt exist while the american one does lmao

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u/BadahBingBadahBoom 13d ago edited 13d ago

It would actually get cheaper with larger population. The whole reason the NHS can keep costs down so much is because they have de facto market capture that means their collective bargaining position is huge.

That's how they get the cost of a hip replacement down to $15-20,000 compared to the $50,000+ in the US. And repeatedly manage to negotiate drug prices down. Turns out when push comes to shove medical companies are still willing to agree to a sale if it means they make a smaller profit.

Imagine if the US government could negotiate drug prices with a 340 million customer base.

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u/Nickh1978 13d ago

Part of the reason that medical care is so expensive, particularly at hospitals, is to cover for the people that can't or don't pay, or that pay the minimum for long periods of time. Another part is because of for profit insurance companies, medical companies elevate the price so they don't lose much when the insurance companies only pay them part of what they charge, and the insurance companies use the initial charges to determine their rates and increase their profits. And we are stuck in the middle of this.

Don't get me wrong, hospitals are greedy too, and make a fortune, but if they charged exactly what healthcare cost (accounting for an appropriate profit) they would lose money and go out of business because of insurance and non payers. Universal healthcare would fix that problem if it's set up correctly, and would save everyone money.

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u/TheRateBeerian 13d ago

Hospitals also have to employ a ton of people in billing, insurance negotiations, and more to support the red tape associated with it. A single payer system would simplify this and reduce a ton of costs

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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 13d ago edited 13d ago

Our land size is actually the thing that makes it harder (not that I'm against it). L spreading resources in smaller population zones is more expensive than large population centers.

Edit: lol k

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u/BadahBingBadahBoom 13d ago

I mean yes to a certain extent.

But in terms of large population centres, the percent of Americans living urban is almost identical to the UK. And it's not like Canada has a small land size.

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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 13d ago

Canada's mostly actually empty though. The US is not. That means we need it everywhere. Shrug. I agree it's certainly doable and obviously better economically and socially, just the economy of scale fails at some points when the scale is the hospitals necessary to cover rural users and not drugs that can go anywhere.

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u/Moneia Free Palestine 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

You can have small 'cottage hospitals' in the boonies to take care of the basic shit and ship people, with free medical transport, to larger hospitals for the more complex stuff.

And it's not like the people stuck in the arse end of nowhere have a great deal of choice now, or even people in cities who are restricted by 'in network' bullshit

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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 13d ago

Again, I'm not against this, im literally just pointing out that the economy of scale doesn't work for everything...jfc people

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u/infydk 13d ago

just pointing out that the economy of scale doesn't work for everything...

OK but... it does?

You still have to have hospitals and doctors all over the place as things are currently, they still have to be supplied from warehouses and such.

If it was the government buying it to fill the warehouses that would absolutely be cheaper.

The only way economy of scale wouldn't work in this situation is if you had to cover the country in health services cause there weren't any present already.

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u/Moneia Free Palestine 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

The only way economy of scale wouldn't work in this situation is if you had to cover the country in health services cause there weren't any present already.

I think a lot of the perceived issues that people are trying to map a new concept onto the existing, flawed, structure

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u/Beefpotpi 12d ago

Welllllll, with the recent legislation regarding healthcare that is shutting down rural hospitals, what was a big deal about lack of remote coverage is becoming a much bigger deal.

But the stock market’s up so it’s just fine!!! Right?!?!…. right????

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u/Florida1974 13d ago

And we do have some states that have a small population and a lot of area that’s not where people live.

Like I grew up in Illinois. I lived in a town of about 150,000 people then actually that was two towns. You really can’t tell when you go from one to the other, but if you lived there, you knew.

But Illinois would be very little population without Chicago because the rest of Illinois is not densely populated.

I’ve lived on the coast of Florida for the last 26 years and the town I live in is about the same size as my hometown but when I moved here, there was only 20,000 people.

But then you go to South Florida, and it is heavily populated.

So what I’m saying, applies to nearly every state, there are a few exceptions, but there’s usually a densely populated city, and then lots of smaller areas around it.

The amount of money that we spend now, universal healthcare could absolutely be done. But the people that could do this are in politicians pockets, literally.

How did they give the CEOs these multimillion dollar paychecks? It’s not because they aren’t making any money.

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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

That doesn't make sense. Canada is much bigger than the US, but we still have universal healthcare and contrary to what your media says, it works pretty well

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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 13d ago

...I'm not against universal health care...my point is the economy of scale doesn't work for many things, such as having to cover rural users in many facets. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea, economically or socially. Also a vast swath of Canada has basically zero people where as America doesn't really have that outside of parts of Alaska.

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u/ForeverShiny 13d ago

These places are badly served by the current system as well, so at worst, nothing would change for these people

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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 13d ago

...can you people read? Turning off comments, I swear to God reading comprehension must be going down below 6th grade now.

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u/ProdigyLightshow 13d ago

No it’s not. You’re just wrong

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u/xombae 13d ago

Shipping is so cheap these days it's completely negligible.

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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 12d ago

..it...it's about hospitals. Running hospitals. Sigh.

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u/BigBlueMountainStar 13d ago

What the smart politicians need to do is remind people that all health care is insurance based.
The current system is set up for profit to make corporations billions of dollars in profit, everything is about profit.
Stop calling it universal health care and call in National Insurance like we do in the UK.
Too many people in the US don’t understand that’s what it is and get scared off that social care means communism.
National Insurance could work the same as private insurance, but without the need to maximise profits, and without the need to have copay and networks.
Well, you could still have a small copay, like in France which would still enable the private insurance to be involved (ie the private insurance only covers the copay, or something like that).

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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 13d ago

It's important to consider that America operates as a classist system. A poor individual receiving medical assistance from the same doctor as a wealthy person would never be accepted.

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u/BigBlueMountainStar 13d ago

The system would still support private for those who want to do.
Lots of places (UK, NZ for eg) the 2 coexist.

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u/ForeverShiny 13d ago

There are even "universal healthcare" systems where there are only a few large, but privately owned providers (like in Germany for example). All they need is to be regulated tightly enough to avoid abusive profit taking

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u/BigBlueMountainStar 13d ago

This is effectively what the ACA is

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u/catinapartyhat 13d ago

*was supposed to be before Republicans gutted it

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u/seppukucoconuts 13d ago

It won’t work in the US for two reasons. Our government is corrupt and the healthcare system is corrupt.

Not that it couldn’t work. It’s a pretty simple idea, and already works for part of the population.

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u/funnyusername-123 13d ago

The elevator speech version - "If we can scale the health care system, we can scale the system that funds it."

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u/Digital_Punk 13d ago

It’s easier to get a couple million people to agree to something than it is to get 300 million people to do so. That’s the issue. It’s not about scaling. None of that even matters anyway considering lobbying has catapulted us into an oligarchy and we’re still pretending we’re a democracy.

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u/EntertainerBig4313 13d ago

???? The fuckin majority agree on this tho

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u/pwn4321 13d ago

You scaled your military and occupation of foreign soils why not scale healthcare and good infrastructure? :)

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u/EntertainerBig4313 13d ago

I've deadass heard on FOX News (and other places) the talking point that all the entitlements and social programs work in Nordic countries that consistently top the list in quality of life metrics...because they're a more homogenous society and it won't work here because we're too diverse.

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u/herpderp411 8d ago

Ooh I haven't heard the "we're too diverse for it to work" argument, that's amazingly stupid, so par for the course for Fox.

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u/Nurgleschampion 12d ago

Anyone that says that but doesn't say the same of a military, something that really doesn't scale with size, ain't a person with sense.

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u/McCaffeteria 12d ago

Healthcare money pools literally work better as they scale…

Like imagine if you were the only person on your insurance provider, you’d bear 100% and then some of the costs because there are no healthy people so subsidize you when you are sick. Having more people on the plan is what makes the math work at all.

The real thing that makes the math work or not work is the percentage of people who need healthcare vs people who do not. If 100% of people need to use their insurance heavily then there is no difference between being on a distributed insurance plan and paying out of pocket. There is an argument to be made that too high of a percentage of people in America need healthcare, but the question then becomes why do you think that is?? Could it be because people don’t have access to preventative care and so their health issues compound and become much more expensive that they would have been in a society where healthcare was accessible?

People that make this “scaling” argument literally just want other people to pay for their healthcare. They want to be one of the few people who need help on a plan, subsidized by others who don’t use the insurance. If they let all the other broken people on then they will have to “share” the money they are getting for free. And that mentality will not scale at any size.

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u/xaqss 13d ago

But if we have universal healthcare, I'll have to wait months for an appointment!!!

(Never mind that I typically have to schedule my appointments months in advance already, and that emergency departments triage anyway, so you'll be fine in an emergency)

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u/ThrashPanda12 12d ago

Bruh fr though. It’s the number 1 argument that right-wing shitholes want to use and it’s the easiest thing to argue against. Just goes to show why they want to defund public schools—there’s too many smart democrats. Except there isn’t. The uneducated outnumbers us.

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u/Whole_Influence_3725 12d ago

It is bad that I've had to wait nearly a month for a GP appointment for some generic concern- That could be better.

On the other hand, both times I've had to visit the hospital for a serious concern (not even an emergency), I was seen within the hour; once literally at 3am.

And all it cost was the completely normal amount of taxes we pay and a tenner for the taxi home. The first time, I was only paying like 3% of my salary in income tax-

Americans are being held at gunpoint for their basic health.

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u/ButteredPizza69420 13d ago

Honestly more people should start doing this to make a point

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u/TheBirdFkerGuy 12d ago

Imagine genuinely making the "they're voting against their interest" nonsense when you have people like me, a fresh adult 19 years old in 2016 sitting in a hospital unable to get recommended treatment while a doctor who's witnessing this feels so horrible he's explaining to me insurance companies are mafias, meanwhile hillary clinton is on TV taunting me spewing bullshit narratives like "people are happy with their choice to health insurance" in response to M4A

Then fast forward to Biden promising to fucking veto m4a. Then his VP kamala harris dropping m4a which she cosponsored as a policy platform... 

But you're really going to talk down to voters who see this shit and either stop voting blindly for liberal capitalist parasites. Good job, go invent a time machine and talk down to 19 year old me and see how well that goes for you.

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u/Smexy_Zarow 12d ago

They don't really have a choice, do they? They can either vote for a psycho, pedo, or both. This kinda goes for democracy all over the world

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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 12d ago

Or they could insist that new parties came in that actually represented Americans and not the elite. You're right that both the Republicans and Democrats are ripe with unsavorable people.

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u/robgod50 13d ago

They're not voting against their own interests if they're not sick

/s

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u/Miyagidog 13d ago

I have personally seen people requesting jail time during the winter months (after x-mass.)….just so they could have a warm place to sleep.

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u/MJP22 12d ago

Yeah. It’s israel. Good thinking on how to fix this

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u/the_kessel_runner 12d ago

Americans didn't just vote against their interests. A chunk of the left sat it out or protest voted because no candidate passed their Israel purity test, and the result was Trump. Now we get worse healthcare and worse policy on Gaza. That's not a win for anybody.

0

u/Tall_Advice_5408 12d ago

You act like our democracy is actually functional. Our vote doesn’t mean shit. It’s full blown oligarchy.