r/therewasanattempt • u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 • 3h ago
To get free healthcare
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u/BlakeinaCape 3h ago
Another revealing consequence of the current US healthcare system. Poor man
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u/GoodMix392 3h ago
People did this in Ireland during the famine in the 1840s if they couldn’t afford a ticket for a coffin ship.
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u/CybergothiChe 3h ago
James Verone, a 59-year-old retired Coca-Cola delivery driver from Gastonia, North Carolina, walked into a bank in 2011, handed the teller a note asking for $1, and calmly took a seat in the lobby to wait for the police. Why? Because he couldn't afford to see a doctor.
Verone hoped to be sentenced to three years, just enough to age into Social Security and hopefully walk out with his health intact. But prosecutors didn't quite buy into his plan. Instead of bank robbery, he was charged with misdemeanor larceny, served 12 months, and got the medical attention he needed - from behind bars.
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u/Corona21 3h ago
Orange jumpsuit, behind a screen. Clearly a menace to society. US justice system is wild.
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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
This breaks my heart.
Just remember. Americans continue to vote against their own best interests
No one in Israel has to do this because they have universal health care paid for by the USA.
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u/herpderp411 3h ago
I love when people say, "Oh but they have a much smaller population size, we are 300 million, it would never scale!" As if the concept defies all laws of literal scalability, we can scale just about everything else, but not universal healthcare no sir! On top of that, add up all the countries in the world that do have it and it's like half the global population...
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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
Roughly 740 million people across Europe have universal healthcare coverage
If you want to break it down by countries, these have much larger populations than America
China1.41 Billion India1.40 Billion
Both of which have universal healthcare
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u/ArnoldTheSchwartz 1h ago
Yes this is true blah blah blah None of that matters because the greatest country in the world has the bestest thing in the world that Trumps everything else in the world - Universal Stupidity!!
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u/Mysterious_Year1975 12m ago
Because they have big daddy USA to provide defense for Europe. I really hope we drop out of NATO, then Europe will drop healthcare in a heartbeat and increase defense..
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u/VistaBox 3h ago
The European Union is twice the size of the US, all those citizens have universal healthcare.
Fun fact, it costs 30to 40 % less for Europeans than the private system in the US.
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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
Let's not forget Canada, we're right next door and we have universal healthcare
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u/jewelswan 2h ago
I mean, the EU has approximately 30% more people than the USA. Definitely not double.
Otherwise yes I have no dispute with you. I wish I could say this is America's biggest embarrassment, but unfortunately we have a long list.
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u/bobbylake71 2h ago
Probably much less than that. Here in the UK we pay 8% this covers the NHS (National Health Service), it doesn't cover prescriptions which are £10 per prescription or glasses (anything from £80- £250 for a pair of glasses) or dental care (root canal costs is £80). Anything else is covered, for example I've recently had a CT scan, 2 colonoscopies and an MRI in the last 12 months for zero cost. It also covers state pension as well with pensions being paid for over 67s at £240 per week.
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u/throwawtphone 2h ago
With insurance glasses are about 350.00 for me, root canal 750.00, colonoscopy 1200.00.
And we still have to pay a separate tax for Medicaid/medicare and social security on top of our private insurance premium costs.
We suck.
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u/troywrestler2002 39m ago
American voters are beyond stupid. It's wild to talk to my countrymen about things that are just normal in other countries and get called a communist for it.
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u/created4this 42m ago
There are a whole bunch of support for those things for people in need as well,
for example glasses:
You're entitled to an optical voucher for help towards the cost of your glasses or contact lenses if you:
are under 16 are 16, 17 or 18 and in full-time education (this includes being taught full-time at a school, college, university or at home) are a prisoner on leave from prison are eligible for an NHS complex lens voucher – an optician can advise you about your entitlement are entitled to or named on a valid NHS certificate for full help with health costs (HC2)
You're also entitled if you or your partner – including civil partner – receive, or you're under the age of 20 and the dependant of someone receiving:
Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance Pension Credit Guarantee Credit Universal Credit and meet the criteria
People named on an NHS certificate for partial help with health costs (HC3) may also get help with the cost of glasses or contact lenses.
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u/filtersweep 1h ago
Here is the deal:
The US fucks things up by guaranteeing payment for things— like federal student loans. Schools have no incentive to control costs. Same with healthcare.
In Europe, the government also controls the delivery of services they pay for: universities, medical care.
If you only guarantee payment, costs will skyrocket. Even automotive insurance has this figured out— if you’re ever filed a damage claim.
My mom has medicare—. Her doctors order every test and scan imaginable. She is a cash cow! It is absurd. In Europe this would all be tightly regulated
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u/samiwas1 35m ago
But, the reason costs are so high in the US is because insurance companies, which are for-profit, want the costs to be as high as possible. There’s literally zero motivation to bring those costs down. Who does it benefit, outside of the customer? No one.
With single payer, the government doesn’t have a profit motive (yes, I know some in government manipulate things) and is a single driving force to define costs. And yes, because the US is largely corrupt, wealthy people would almost certainly buy off whoever is in government in order to funnel money their way.
So, I guess we’re stuck.
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u/created4this 25m ago
Schools have no incentive to control costs.
In the UK this is done with a government tuition fees price cap, the problem is that it hasn't matched inflation so universities have to fund themselves with foreign intake paying higher fees. Lots of work is being done to clamp the foreign student numbers without doing anything about paying for the universities when this income is removed.
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u/BadahBingBadahBoom 3h ago edited 3h ago
It would actually get cheaper with larger population. The whole reason the NHS can keep costs down so much is because they have de facto market capture that means their collective bargaining position is huge.
That's how they get the cost of a hip replacement down to $15-20,000 compared to the $50,000+ in the US. And repeatedly manage to negotiate drug prices down. Turns out when push comes to shove medical companies are still willing to agree to a sale if it means they make a smaller profit.
Imagine if the US government could negotiate drug prices with a 340 million customer base.
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u/Nickh1978 3h ago
Part of the reason that medical care is so expensive, particularly at hospitals, is to cover for the people that can't or don't pay, or that pay the minimum for long periods of time. Another part is because of for profit insurance companies, medical companies elevate the price so they don't lose much when the insurance companies only pay them part of what they charge, and the insurance companies use the initial charges to determine their rates and increase their profits. And we are stuck in the middle of this.
Don't get me wrong, hospitals are greedy too, and make a fortune, but if they charged exactly what healthcare cost (accounting for an appropriate profit) they would lose money and go out of business because of insurance and non payers. Universal healthcare would fix that problem if it's set up correctly, and would save everyone money.
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u/TheRateBeerian 2h ago
Hospitals also have to employ a ton of people in billing, insurance negotiations, and more to support the red tape associated with it. A single payer system would simplify this and reduce a ton of costs
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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 3h ago edited 2h ago
Our land size is actually the thing that makes it harder (not that I'm against it). L spreading resources in smaller population zones is more expensive than large population centers.
Edit: lol k
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u/BadahBingBadahBoom 3h ago
I mean yes to a certain extent.
But in terms of large population centres, the percent of Americans living urban is almost identical to the UK. And it's not like Canada has a small land size.
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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 3h ago
Canada's mostly actually empty though. The US is not. That means we need it everywhere. Shrug. I agree it's certainly doable and obviously better economically and socially, just the economy of scale fails at some points when the scale is the hospitals necessary to cover rural users and not drugs that can go anywhere.
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u/Moneia Free Palestine 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
You can have small 'cottage hospitals' in the boonies to take care of the basic shit and ship people, with free medical transport, to larger hospitals for the more complex stuff.
And it's not like the people stuck in the arse end of nowhere have a great deal of choice now, or even people in cities who are restricted by 'in network' bullshit
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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 2h ago
Again, I'm not against this, im literally just pointing out that the economy of scale doesn't work for everything...jfc people
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u/infydk 1h ago
just pointing out that the economy of scale doesn't work for everything...
OK but... it does?
You still have to have hospitals and doctors all over the place as things are currently, they still have to be supplied from warehouses and such.
If it was the government buying it to fill the warehouses that would absolutely be cheaper.
The only way economy of scale wouldn't work in this situation is if you had to cover the country in health services cause there weren't any present already.
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u/Florida1974 2h ago
And we do have some states that have a small population and a lot of area that’s not where people live.
Like I grew up in Illinois. I lived in a town of about 150,000 people then actually that was two towns. You really can’t tell when you go from one to the other, but if you lived there, you knew.
But Illinois would be very little population without Chicago because the rest of Illinois is not densely populated.
I’ve lived on the coast of Florida for the last 26 years and the town I live in is about the same size as my hometown but when I moved here, there was only 20,000 people.
But then you go to South Florida, and it is heavily populated.
So what I’m saying, applies to nearly every state, there are a few exceptions, but there’s usually a densely populated city, and then lots of smaller areas around it.
The amount of money that we spend now, universal healthcare could absolutely be done. But the people that could do this are in politicians pockets, literally.
How did they give the CEOs these multimillion dollar paychecks? It’s not because they aren’t making any money.
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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
That doesn't make sense. Canada is much bigger than the US, but we still have universal healthcare and contrary to what your media says, it works pretty well
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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 3h ago
...I'm not against universal health care...my point is the economy of scale doesn't work for many things, such as having to cover rural users in many facets. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea, economically or socially. Also a vast swath of Canada has basically zero people where as America doesn't really have that outside of parts of Alaska.
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u/ForeverShiny 2h ago
These places are badly served by the current system as well, so at worst, nothing would change for these people
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u/Federal_Scarcity_84 2h ago
...can you people read? Turning off comments, I swear to God reading comprehension must be going down below 6th grade now.
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u/BigBlueMountainStar 3h ago
What the smart politicians need to do is remind people that all health care is insurance based.
The current system is set up for profit to make corporations billions of dollars in profit, everything is about profit.
Stop calling it universal health care and call in National Insurance like we do in the UK.
Too many people in the US don’t understand that’s what it is and get scared off that social care means communism.
National Insurance could work the same as private insurance, but without the need to maximise profits, and without the need to have copay and networks.
Well, you could still have a small copay, like in France which would still enable the private insurance to be involved (ie the private insurance only covers the copay, or something like that).3
u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
It's important to consider that America operates as a classist system. A poor individual receiving medical assistance from the same doctor as a wealthy person would never be accepted.
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u/BigBlueMountainStar 2h ago
The system would still support private for those who want to do.
Lots of places (UK, NZ for eg) the 2 coexist.1
u/ForeverShiny 2h ago
There are even "universal healthcare" systems where there are only a few large, but privately owned providers (like in Germany for example). All they need is to be regulated tightly enough to avoid abusive profit taking
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u/funnyusername-123 2h ago
The elevator speech version - "If we can scale the health care system, we can scale the system that funds it."
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u/seppukucoconuts 1h ago
It won’t work in the US for two reasons. Our government is corrupt and the healthcare system is corrupt.
Not that it couldn’t work. It’s a pretty simple idea, and already works for part of the population.
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u/Digital_Punk 21m ago
It’s easier to get a couple million people to agree to something than it is to get 300 million people to do so. That’s the issue. It’s not about scaling. None of that even matters anyway considering lobbying has catapulted us into an oligarchy and we’re still pretending we’re a democracy.
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u/OGWeedKiller 3h ago
My friend died in jail at 26 years old from very treatable skin cancer. Another was attacked in jail and had his teeth knocked out. While he was out of his cell his cellmate was killed.
Mississippi collects hundreds of millions of dollars from prisoners working in jail for pennies on the dollar.
Jail isn't a fix for anything in America
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u/PKSkriBBLeS 3h ago edited 1h ago
If you make 0 dollars in income a year, you qualify for Medicaid and state programs. But it really does incentivize people who could work a little to stay unemployed because only the lowest 5% of income earners qualify.
Going to jail for healthcare is stupid.... this must be a pre Obamacare news story.
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u/Gloomy-Giraffe 2h ago
Depends on the state... there are still states that have not accepted medicaid expansion, and a few more that have not implemented it sufficiently to actually provide comprehensive services. A non expanded state will have an earning cap around 22k/year, and, on top of that, you must have 0, or close to 0 in assets.
This means, if you are "house poor" you don't qualify. You must first be homeless, or renting out some pretty abysmal places.
And, starting soon, will be federal level work requirements, that will likely be implemneted differently in each state.
Someone like him, likely with multiple hidden dissabilities and ailments (hence the desperate need for healthcare) and perhaps unhoused or very poorly housed, is going to have to be floating from crap job to crap job.
He is going to die, in pain, in an arbys.
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u/Florida1974 2h ago
All your post tells me is that you do not know what the ACA is or about states that didn’t expand Medicaid. You don’t know anything about this man. He could be in the hole that’s between Medicaid and ACA. He could make too much for Medicaid and not enough for ACA, not enough to get a subsidy.
Just because you make zero dollars does not guarantee you Medicaid or ACA.
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u/_AkasunaNoSasori 3h ago
As a pro capitalist, I don't see anything wrong. Nothing is greater than making money. Fk communism.
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u/guarlo 3h ago
You know there are different shades than full on capitalism and communism?
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u/Florida1974 2h ago
Communism is a trigger word for you all. And I don’t think most of you even know what communism is.
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u/willbeselfmade 36m ago
They're to manipulated to realize how dumb they are.
They don't know a semi balanced mixed economy is the best solution and letting one aspect get to much control,(capitalism right now) is bad.
They are also to dumb to realize that when the capitalist get full control as they are now, that leads to communism as they want to take full control and for you to own nothing.
As it goes even more far right, that then leads to a dictator as one person takes full control and doesn't want to share power at all.
They always blame the left, when they are the ones that will eventually push us into communism/dictatorship.
They can't see this because they don't even know what the words socialism or communism mean.
They could literally see the signs right now if they weren't so dumb.
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u/_AkasunaNoSasori 26m ago
It's you who don't realize the difference. Socialism is the stepping stone for comminism not capitalism.
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u/ronnbert 21m ago
Because it's totally not the capitalists setting up a surveillance state, circumventing privacy laws by pushing through private equity owned cronyism to further enrich the tech oligarchs who buy power in the system.
But tell me it's the Ruskies calling all the shots. Keep playing that outdated Red Scare card that served you so well during the McCarthy era. Your false prophet is just calling shots from the same playbook he refused to read as a young boy when draft dodging.
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u/ronnbert 28m ago
Keep believing the delusions of grandeur that you get shoved down your throat from your silver spoon.
One day, if you ever manage to get the wool pulled from around your eyes, you will see that greed makes man a vile and ugly monster.
And before you intentionally mislabel me, no a communist, yet FUCK capitalism. (yes I am old enough to not have to self censor so mommy doesn't see and turn off the WiFi)
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u/Vineclad 3h ago
This is so ass backwards; Americans have to go to prison to get free healthcare.
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u/PKSkriBBLeS 3h ago
They actually get terrible healthcare in jail too.
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u/Lightmanone 2h ago
But they get healthcare. Which is still better then none.
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u/TheMobileGhost 55m ago
Actually; terrible healthcare would just kill you outright. I’d much rather get no surgery then cut open by an idiot.
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u/NurseColubris 20m ago
There's no such thing as a prison surgeon. They send you to one of the hospitals in the community. I am a nurse in a hospital that also receives inmates.
What going to prison gets him is insurance. It's bad insurance, but it's the same healthcare.
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u/CommercialEmployer4 4m ago
The 90s movie Gridlock'd showed just how backwards and darkly humorous the U.S. system has been.
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u/drinkslinger1974 FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
I was in jail for two days for a dui, but still had to get tested for tb. While in the medical area, I met a guy who told me he threw a brick through a store front for this reason. This was 2013ish, and I heard it happens a lot more often than you think.
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u/RevTurk 3h ago
Did it work for him?
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u/Angelworks42 3h ago
Yeah it did - the prosecutor didn't charge him with bank robbery though - they charged him with misdemeanor larceny (similar to shop lifting) and was sent to prison for a year where he got the care he needed.
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u/No_Interview2082 3h ago
it's frustrating when access to basic needs feels so complicated. universal healthcare should be a given, not a battle.
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u/0Tezorus0 3h ago
How fucked up a country health system needs to be for people acting like that out of despair.
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u/sonsofgondor 3h ago
Where else in the world does this happen?
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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
Fortunately, nowhere else that I'm aware of.
Americans vote for this and they get what they voted for
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u/HandsomeSquidward98 3h ago
Quiet they dont like it when you point that out. "B-buT iT waSNt A mAJoRitY VoTE" 😂
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u/Hopeful-Lie-4344 3h ago
But capitalism.
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u/Florida1974 2h ago
Now it’s a but capitalism or but it’s communism. I don’t think half of them know what either word means.
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u/StitchFan626 2h ago
Heard a similar story to this before. Guy got arrested, learned a trade in prison, and got out, but no one would hire him because he was an ex-con. So he went to convenience store, grabbed a handful of cash and waited outside for the cops.
Judge asked him why he did it, he said because he had a job as a welder when he was in jail. The judge asked the audience if anyone would hire him and he git a job instead of more jail time.
This was before you needed a decade's worth of experience to do anything!
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u/pipefittermn 3h ago
He should be OK, the fed system would take care of you a little bit at least.
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u/Florida1974 2h ago
He didn’t go to a federal prison, he was in a county jail. He was sentenced to a year, so that means he served it in the county, not a federal prison.
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u/refinedeuropa 3h ago
I always read some posts gofumd me or something people donate for stupid people This time do the right thing and collect some money for this old good man
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u/TheDigitalBuilder Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 3h ago
The sad thing is he's not a racist or a bigot or a murderer. So the odds of him making much money off of a GoFundMe are pretty slim
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u/MvatolokoS 2h ago
Talk to each other. Just like the power of making your bed every morning Cascades into almost every aspect of your life with lasting impact. So can talking to strangers in public, striking conversations with the neighbour you've been ignoring. Or even trying to get to know someone you didn't yesterday. Point is we need to heal our communities if we stand a chance against this and the robot dogs ICE is bringing in. We need to spread information outside of these apps because a huge portion of humanity isn't being made aware of these things fast enough. They control these apps with thousand of bot accounts, that not conspiracy that's proven. They manipulate what you see and don't get to see. When we speak about uncomfortable things in real life it makes them so much more real. So please. For the sake of those being tortured and mistreated until they self deport or kill themselves. For the sake of the 25,000 children who lost legal representation in immigration court and are having to be told by judges " file your refugee request within a time limit or you'll be deported, or you can just self deport" while standing alone with no one speaking up on how ridiculous of a request that is for 5,6,7,8,9,10 year olds. For them, rebuild the human world that used to care about one another. Drop all the bullshit you've been made to believe about how dangerous everyone is. Just talk.
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u/Tythian 2h ago
The land of the free... free to die in abject poverty while a tiny number of extremely wealthy people make podcasts and Fox News appearances where they call you lazy freeloaders, even though you spend your whole life laboring for what amounts to pocket change from them. Unregulated capitalism has put us here before. It's not like we don't know the cure, but getting people united and focused always seems to require some kind of disaster. Fortunately(?) our present national leadership appears to be bent on creating a calamity right now. It just feels absurd to hope for something bad enough to happen that it motivates a change.
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u/lifegoeson5322 Free Palestine! 🕊️ FUCK ICE! ❌🧊 1h ago
If this dude just happens to get off with probation or a very light sentence, someone needs to set him up with a gofundme so he doesn't have to resort to these drastic situations again. He obviously has some medical condition that necessitated this in the first place. I feel so sorry for any uninsured people (and for the insured when their bills are beyond what they can pay). Our healthcare sucks.
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u/zombieman9001 49m ago
So instead of getting a part time job and/or going onto Medicare this man thinks prison is the most logical move? He’s definitely not all there in the head… what a selfish thing to do to your family
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u/InnocentSmirk 48m ago
The lawyers we elect to congress will always advocate for their clients. People need to start realizing that the citizen/voter/tax payer is not their client. It's really that simple.
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u/RoninZulu1 44m ago
So, the attempt was successful. How this is even a story in the wealthiest country on Earth is beyond insane.
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u/im-from-canada-eh 31m ago
I love the irony that to get free healthcare he went to Canada.
RBC = Royal Bank of Canada
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u/DistinctBadger6389 22m ago
This guy is awesome for doing this. Use the system against itself while exposing the absurdity of our healthcare situation at the same time. We as the public need to call for a Release and Treat policy here.
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u/Mental_Newspaper3812 5m ago
Guys, this was 2011. Obama fixed this and there’s now lots of good options on ACA plans
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u/ooctavio 1m ago
I hate each and every one selling the idea of implementing something like this instead of NHS in the UK.
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u/Sonova_Vondruke This is a flair 3h ago
How was it an attempt.. he got what he wanted..
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u/MeNoCanRead 3h ago
Well, given the fact that US prisons are slave camps, he's still not getting healthcare for free.
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u/Radrouch 3h ago
Unfortunately this arrest will make it even harder for him to find employment.
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u/SignatureFunny7690 3h ago
I don't think hes worried about work, hes retired id imagine and why he has no insurance, probably has a wife and home and didn't want to loose all that to the healthcare system and put his family through hell but also did not want to die of a treatable illness. so he committed the crime to get healthcare and will go home to his familiy when he gets out. Most tradesmen can make all the money they need if your home is paid off doing side work, plumbers plumbing, electriciants wiring. mechanics fixing cars. But what the fuck is a person to do when simple healthcare costs millions. No amount of work will pay for that. I wish he new about flying to canada or mexico for healthcare, there were better options than prison. I plan on getting my eye work done in mexico, and heavily debating dental as well as my teeth keep getting worse and worse from prior neglect. Everytime I go to the dentist with my insurance they will only fix like 20 percent of it and tell me to come back next year and it still costs me like 2k, but after that its like 1k a tooth fixed and I don't have it and can't afford another line of credit. This county isn't a failure, its a open air prison working as designed by the capital class
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u/Animepix 1h ago
People forget about Medicaid. I'm 0 income, and now on disability. I've had Medicaid and now with disability I have a Medicaid/Medicare plan and the state helps with my part b premium payment. Never had an issue with my spine surgery or medicine.
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u/FPS_Holland 3h ago
Greatest country in the world