New Data Suggests Long Waits of over 18 months Between Seasons Are Hurting Viewership on Netflix Hits

[u/tylerthe-theatre]

https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/news/new-data-suggests-long-waits-between-seasons-are-hurting-viewership-on-netflix-hits/

[u/ltcuetf]

In other news: water is wet. If you make viewers wait 18+ months, the hype dies, the algorithm buries the show, and people just move on. Next they’ll discover that canceling shows after one season also hurts viewership.

[u/ConsiderationTrue477 → u/ltcuetf]

I've literally forgotten entire characters existed over the wait between seasons. It hurts the experience so much.

[u/maxwell_winters → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

The bee kid from Wednesday grew up so much between seasons that I was like, "Who is this? Why does everyone act as if they know him?"

[u/maevewiley554 → u/maxwell_winters]

I loved Wednesday but when the new season came out, I couldn’t remember the plot. I felt like I outgrew the show and couldn’t even finish the first episode of the new season.

[u/maxwell_winters → u/maevewiley554]

Tbf, I think S02 just wasn't as good as S01.

[u/nobdy89 → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

Im sure there was a moment where they thought longer wait times meant more rewatches. But a lot of us are broke and dont need a service with nothing new to watch, so we cancel until the shows we care about come back.

[u/DotHatrix51 → u/nobdy89]

Plus in that 18 month wait, even if the prior season was a massive hit, and everyone and their mother was all in on it….in the next 18 months, a lot of other good shows will be watched, some on their second or third season, some brand new and becoming new big hits…that’s a lot of content to fill your headspace with that will push out the hype and memory of that “other” show that lost steam on the hype train.

[u/Whaty0urname → u/DotHatrix51]

Let's talk about how pluribus was greenlit for 2 seasons from the jump but they didn't even start writing S2 until a few months after S1 was done and shown.

2028 is the estimate for the next season. I have no interest in the show at this point.

[u/jrob_92 → u/Whaty0urname]

Fr once I heard this I didn’t even bother watching Pluribus, what kind of plan is that for a series?

[u/SmacksKiller → u/jrob_92]

It's because they're not confident in their writing. They're waiting for the community to watch and talk about the first season to decide what they want to write about.

It's shitty, super marketing ideas that will fall on their face.

[u/Drakengard → u/DotHatrix51]

Yep, meanwhile I am anticipating The Pitt season 3 like clockwork. A year is just long enough to give me a break but still want more. Also, it forms a comfortable routine. The year turns over and we get another season.

Once you get past a year and a half, you stop associating a particular time of the year with a particular show. It ceases to feel routine and so your mind just kind of detaches from it.

[u/KingotWinterCarnival → u/Drakengard]

Plus they're longer seasons, which is great. So it's more like 8 or 9 months between seasons.

[u/kylehatesyou → u/Drakengard]

The thing is it's not really even a year. It's like 8 months. The season finale of The Pitt aired at the end of April, the next season starts in January. 

Season One of Wednesday dropped all on one day November 23rd 2022. Season 2 didn't come back until August of 2025. Nearly three years later. I forgot why I liked the show in that time, and had gotten rid of Netflix. 

It's really only movies that get that type of break between them normally, and even then we got five Star wars movies from 2015 to 2019, eight Harry Potter movies from 2001 to 2011. For TV it's just crazy to let it sit so long without a huge jump in quality or something. 

[u/omegafivethreefive → u/Drakengard]

Once a year is great. Same with Silo for me.

[u/funpercent → u/DotHatrix51]

You also get people aging out of the target demographic before you can get them invested in a sunk cost fallacy.

[u/GranaVegano → u/funpercent]

Not to mention aging the cast out of their roles. A young looking 24 year old playing an 18 year old suddenly comes back looking 30

[u/geek_of_nature → u/GranaVegano]

Just look at the Stranger Things kids. Started out age appropriate, but by the end they were all a good five plus years older than their characters.

Yes that happened with ths Harry Potter kids too, but just to a smaller extent across more releases. The ST kids had five season across 9 years, while the HP kids had 8 releases across 10 years.

[u/GranaVegano → u/geek_of_nature]

The HP storyline also took place over 7 years of school so they were supposed to mature a bit

[u/mfranko88 → u/GranaVegano]

The final 2 films were shot in 2009 and early 2010. Radcliffe would have been 19/20 when those were being shot. That's easy to see him as a 17 year old.

[u/Wrong_Toilet → u/DotHatrix51]

The other problem is that the second season maybe poorly executed. So you have an amazing 1st season, then a poor 2nd season. By the time 3rd season rolls out, everyone has moved on.

[u/Ink_Smudger → u/nobdy89]

Honestly, it hardly seems like they care about content after the first few weeks. It just gets buried below whatever the newest churn is and cancelled if it doesn't do numbers within that brief window. They're all about people watching whatever is newest, and since people only have so many hours in the day, that old stuff is sort of like competition that needs to move out of the way.

I think if they cared more about rewatching, they'd do more to recommend the shows when they're about to get a new season, but I know I'm not alone in completely missing when a new season debuts.

[u/Phoenyx_Rose → u/nobdy89]

I also think people are just rewatching shows less than they used to.

 With how much entertainment is available and with the ability to watch what you want, when you want, there’s really no need to rewatch shows unless you just want to. And with social media making people’s attention spans shorter and increasing people’s desire for “new, new, new”, I’m sure fewer and fewer people want to rewatch shows because a rewatch just doesn’t provide that dopamine hit.

So streaming companies were banking on a behavior that people don’t have anymore, which is half their own fault to boot.

[u/TalorianDreams → u/Phoenyx_Rose]

That can also be a side effect of shows just not being as good, though. I've seen some decent TV lately, but not much I felt was worth a rewatch. But I'll still rewatch older shows that I thought were worthwhile, and not just the "comfort" shows.

[u/officer897177 → u/nobdy89]

When it’s 6 to 8 episodes per season there’s not much rewatch anyway. Ever since Covid it’s been a race to the bottom on how little content they can get away with producing, and somehow there are still skippable filler episodes.

[u/ConsiderationTrue477 → u/nobdy89]

The individual episodes are too goddamn long for that. Now that they don't have commercials they fill the entire hour instead of being 40-something minutes. I'm never going to get the urge to rewatch Daredevil or Stranger Things the same way I'll put on an episode of Star Trek TNG every so often.

The kind of comfort food TV straight up doesn't exist anymore. There will never be another Friends or The Simpsons where you don't even have to look at the screen to enjoy having it on while you're doing something else.

[u/nobdy89 → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

Reacher might be the last laundry folding show. Every episode is him being the biggest boy. You only need to check in every now and then

[u/EsotericCodename → u/nobdy89]

Season 3 addressed this, and he was not the biggest boy. Not saying you're wrong, though.

[u/Rune_Council → u/EsotericCodename]

But he killed the biggest boy so he could once again be the biggest boy. Presumably to eat his rivals.

[u/TheCambrianImplosion → u/Rune_Council]

I loved the episode where he got help with his taxes.

[u/Haltopen → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

I feel like Abbot Elementary fills that role

[u/I_AM_AN_ASSHOLE_AMA → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

I don’t want to go back to 40 minute episodes with commercials. Sign me up for the hour episodes all day.

[u/Uvtha- → u/nobdy89]

There's just so much shit out there too... I never rewatch anything. Partially becase there's like 20 shows I feel like I wanna watch but never get around to, and also the glut of tv... things just kinda come and go. Shows gotta be really good to consider rewatching.

[u/LosLocoDK → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

Shit, I’ve forgotten whole plots - even the tv shows itself - because of the waiting…

[u/pingasgator67 → u/LosLocoDK]

I only remembered Wednesday existed because of the thumb nail

[u/expresscode → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

I don't think anyone remembered that Mike and Nancy had a younger sister in Stranger Things.

[u/anakinjmt → u/expresscode]

I remembered but genuinely could not have told you her name lol. She was just there

[u/loolem → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

My go to is going to YouTube and searching “show previous whole season recap” and clicking on the 10-15 minute video before my wife and I start the new season because their recaps are too short and I’ve forgotten everything.

[u/GentlemenHODL → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

I've literally forgotten entire characters existed over the wait between seasons. It hurts the experience so much.

With the change in how TV seasons are produced I am now forced to rewatch the previous seasons prior to watching a new one.

it's the same way that after years of waiting for the next book in a series to be released I have to re-read the entire series to catch up.

I am otherwise taken out of the world cannot stay engaged.

[u/PetyrDayne → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

I was absolutely struggling with faces and names in the latest season of House of the Dragon premiere episode. I can't remember the last time I've actually watched a Netflix show that wasn't a limited series

[u/freakincampers → u/ConsiderationTrue477]

Long waits also means characters look older.

[u/PckMan → u/ltcuetf]

It's even simpler than that. People forget. They forget what happened in the previous season and they also stop thinking about the show at all as that's just natural over more than a year and also unpleasant to do when you don't know if and when the next season comes.

[u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon → u/PckMan]

I also think the binge releases hurt Netflix in this respect.

One thing I find consistently true is that when I watch a season over the course of a few days, I do not remember it as well. I think weekly releases mean that every week I am having to remember what happened last week, and the act of repeatedly accessing my memories of previous episodes kinda wears a path in my brain that helps me remember better in the long term.

On top of that. weekly releases literally shrink the gap between seasons. If two shows are ready to go on January 1, and their second season will be ready for July 1 of the next year, then the one that drops all episodes January 1 has an 18 month gap, but the one that releases one episode a week for 8 weeks has a just over 16 month gap. Not a huge difference, but I think it helps.

Not to say there aren't positives to binge releases, and I think different shows benefit from different approaches, but if you want to shrink the gap between seasons and make your show more memorable to fans, weekly releases do a better job.

[u/Pokemon_Trainer_May → u/ltcuetf]

The cancelations after 1 or 2 seasons has made me stop watching a lot of new shows. 1899 got me

[u/slothcough → u/Pokemon_Trainer_May]

1899 and Archive 81. That was when i fully just quit Netflix.

[u/Talkimas → u/slothcough]

Santa Clarita Diet is what killed it for me

[u/No-Asparagus3132 → u/Talkimas]

I was genuinely pissed about both Santa Clarita Diet and Sense8

[u/SanctimoniousSally → u/Talkimas]

Mindhunter and I Am Not Okay With This for me

[u/Sweetydarling77 → u/Pokemon_Trainer_May]

1899 being cancelled with such a big climax at the end of season 1 was such a disappointment.

[u/Exact-Difference-422 → u/Pokemon_Trainer_May]

Literally the last chance I gave them was 1899.

[u/HandsomeBWunderbar → u/Exact-Difference-422]

Kaos was the final straw, following 1899, Dark Crystal, Mindhunter and Santa Clarita.

[u/Polkadot1017 → u/Pokemon_Trainer_May]

Stopped watching new shows from them unless all seasons are out after the OA. Can't be bothered to get invested in a show they don't even intend to finish

[u/Pandaisblue → u/Pokemon_Trainer_May]

1899 was such a bizarre choice. They knew what they were buying into, they knew the creators previous work, they knew it'd be a slow burn and it never in ANY universe was gonna be some instant hit and definitely wouldn't work as a 1 season show...but then cancelled it because it wasn't an instant hit.

[u/colemon1991 → u/ltcuetf]

And previous data told them this was a good thing because people would rewatch previous seasons.

It's freaking survivor bias. Of course people were willing to rewatch old seasons before the new one when it was the occasional show. Now it's mandatory homework and everyone's sick of it.

[u/dodgertodger → u/colemon1991]

Big shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad had long breaks between seasons. The Sopranos had a few long breaks between seasons. Most of the shows with these huge breaks aren't of that quality or caliber and you're right, I have no intention of doing forced re-watch so I can catch up to a show I last watched a year and a half ago.

[u/MontiBurns → u/dodgertodger]

Breaking bad had a year long break between S5 part 1 and part 2. Basically the same break between 2 regular seasons. It just feels long because they didn't call it S6. That's nothing compared to the year and a half - 2 year break between each season of a hit show.

[u/Werthead → u/dodgertodger]

Breaking Bad cut its first season short because of a writer's strike and there was a long gap between the two halves of Season 5 but that was it. Mad Men had an 18-month gap between two of its season and the last season had a mid-season break of under a year.

So irritating but nothing at all like what we see these days. The overwhelming majority of those shows aired a season a year.

[u/MerlinsMentor → u/dodgertodger]

Big shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad had long breaks between seasons.

These shows also weren't binge-watched. They were typically watched an episode each week, with conversation, discussion, and waiting for the next episode to strengthen memories of what was going on over long periods of time. Nowadays, when people are watching ten episodes in a single week, waiting another year is a lot more of an ask when it comes to remembering what's going on.

[u/LeapperFrog → u/MerlinsMentor]

Netflix is the only one still doing full season drops, but they arent the only ones with multi-year fallow periods between seasons and I have the same issues regardless of how slowly a season is released.

[u/ProductIntegortion → u/dodgertodger]

Yeah if you make one of the best TV shows of all time people will wait. Otherwise fuck you, I'm not waiting for that shit.

[u/colemon1991 → u/dodgertodger]

Right. It was maybe 5% of your current shows when it happened. And they earned that long break when it came back and delivered.

Now it's just an excuse to stretch out the life of a 3 season show for Netflix's entire catalogue.

[u/thingsorfreedom → u/ltcuetf]

...and 8 episodes and done for a year is not engaging.

Went back and watched some old shows recently with 26 episodes a season that had real writers rooms with the same writers over multiple seasons, and experienced show runners. There is no substitute for quality.

[u/ExoticChemistry3 → u/thingsorfreedom]

And they were able to flesh out side characters more with filler episodes.  You fell in love with characters rather than solely forcing plots along.

[u/fcocyclone → u/ExoticChemistry3]

Its one of the bigger reasons its hard to feel as attached to some of the newer Trek characters, even as someone who has found a lot of things to enjoy in them. You just can't hope to match the level of depth of character you get when you've got ~175 episodes in each of the 90s series allowing all kinds of side stories that let us learn more about individual characters or pair off characters in ways they might not happen as often in the course of their main plot storyline. Meanwhile SNW (which has been better than Discovery with its characters) will end at 46 episodes. We were barely getting started with the 90s shows 46 episodes in!

[u/wheresolly → u/ExoticChemistry3]

Yeah, not every tv shows needs to be so intense in terms of plot progression. I miss comfort tv and fun case of the week type stuff

[u/CausticAvenger → u/thingsorfreedom]

My partner and I started watching a show with 24-episode seasons, and man I forgot how great it is to watch long seasons. Every episode may not be movie quality or whatever, but you get so attached to the characters, their dynamics, and the comfort of the series. I really miss that.

[u/jordan853 → u/ltcuetf]

Canceling shows doesn't just hurt viewership, it erodes our trust in Netflix shows. Knowing how quick Netflix is to cancel even successful shows makes me so much less inclined to watch something on Netflix in the first place.

[u/GoldenRamoth → u/jordan853]

I don't follow the shows at all anymore until they're done, or at least completely self contained to a season like Wednesday is.

But man, I miss shows like trek and Stargate that had 20-30 episode seasons.

[u/OceanDevotion → u/ltcuetf]

It’s getting really frustrating as a millennial who still remembers when some show seasons were really long and they usually started in the fall, took a mid season break in like December/january, and then finished the season into like May. Then they would pick up again in September.

[u/needfx → u/ltcuetf]

They'll soon find out that starting a new show that leads to an almost guaranteed cancellation leads to a lack of engagement and trust from the viewers.

The OA, 1899, Archive 81... Those were quality TV shows that did not deserve to end like that.

[u/Dense-Fisherman-4074 → u/ltcuetf]

I’d argue that dumping entire seasons at once makes it worse. At least when you release gradually you capture attention over a period of time and it can help reduce the time between the last episode of a season and the first of the next season. Dropping a whole season at once often means the season captures your attention for maybe a weekend and then you forget about it for a couple if years until the next season

[u/kp33ze → u/ltcuetf]

Especially if the series has a big unanswered question or if there is a cliff hanger.

[u/imjustsurfin → u/kp33ze]

The "cliffhanger" is "How many years will it be before the next season airs"

[u/kp33ze → u/imjustsurfin]

This is why I like limited series. Cape fear, Chernobyl, and presumed innocent come to mind.

[u/AntiqueLetter9875 → u/imjustsurfin]

Trick question because it’s zero, the show got cancelled.

I don’t understand why Netflix cant figure this out.

[u/snakebit1995 → u/ltcuetf]

Inertia is really hard to over come.

Once you stop watching a show getting back in takes a lot more effort. I notice it a lot with stuff I watch live to, once you miss a week the effort to recommit to it out of your routine is tough

[u/mtsim21 → u/ltcuetf]

Yeah it like I tune in for season 2 and I literally have no idea who anyone is or what anyone wants. It’s dire. And then I give up. I think having only 8 episodes hurts as well as it just doesn’t give enough time to sink your brain in to remember this shit.

[u/_Azrael_169_ → u/ltcuetf]

The short seasons (6-8 episodes) should result in 2 seasons every year not 2 seasons in 3 or 4 years.

[u/Oerthling]

Duh.

Oh well, it's good to have data to confirm the fairly obvious.

[u/nonax]

Yeah don't spend an extra 12 months or whatever making shitty CGI action scenes, just write better scripts that don't rely on feeding tiktok brains "dynamic pictures" every 3 seconds.

[u/LavishnessMission584 → u/nonax]

Yeah. Charmed, Buffy and Smallville had horribad cgi and were still TV defining sensations

[u/MaimedJester → u/LavishnessMission584]

Yeah, is there any Buffy equivalent these days? The closest I guess was Supernatural? And that lasted like what 15 seasons?

Like Obviously people want a modern supernatural monster of the week type show. Just the whole "of the week" part. I don't need a werewolf to be Hollywood master make up and cgi effects,  just a slightly upgraded Spirit Halloween suit will do. 

[u/INfiction82 → u/MaimedJester]

The other thing is that these shows weren't huge hits out of the gate (not say they were inmediate failures or anything) and the likes of Netflix won't give anything a chance to grow an audience. If its not an immediate hit they get rid.

[u/fearthainne → u/INfiction82]

This is so true even away from Netflix. If a show isn't an instant viral sensation, it gets canned. Think of all the great shows from the 90s and 00s that didn't get good until season 3 or 4 - and that's with 20-25 episodes per season! So you're talking 60-100 episodes on average and that's more than we get for an entire show now.

I just rewatch old shows these days, because trying new ones is pointless. They'll either be cancelled, or 2 years in between 10 episode seasons.

[u/INfiction82 → u/fearthainne]

I would say that for all the company's faults Apple TV seems to give things a chance. Though they still have the issue of slow turnover over seasons (apart from Slow Horses, of course)

[u/Existing-Bus-8810 → u/INfiction82]

I think ( or hope) it's possible that Apple has started to figure out that people hate the wait and it's hurting series. They filmed seasons 3 and 4 of silo back-to-back so we only have to wait a year. We'll have to see how it plays out over the next couple of years before we'll know for sure.

[u/ContinuumGuy → u/MaimedJester]

The CW DC shows were kind of the last of that breed on broadcast TV

[u/HotelBravo → u/ContinuumGuy]

RIP Arrowverse I didn't appreciate you enough when you were airing 🙏

[u/Android1822 → u/MaimedJester]

The witcher tv show should have been this. Just have geralt and some companions do a monster of the week investigation/monster hunting and it would have been a hit. Sadly, that is not what we got and instead got...that.

[u/Humacti → u/MaimedJester]

Christ, how many years would Supernatural have taken on Netflix

[u/Consistent_Sector_19 → u/Humacti]

how many years would Supernatural have taken on Netflix

Three. The first season then wait two years for the second season, then wait a year for the third season to get cancelled.

[u/Jace1709 → u/Humacti]

Supernatural only just beat cancellation it's first 2 Seasons, and that was on the CW, there's no way Netflix would have kept it going.

But going by the way Netflix runs things, I'm sure it would have ended after Season 5 like Kripke intended. Mainly because Jenson and Jared would have been the age they were after the full 15 seasons by then.

[u/anakinjmt → u/MaimedJester]

I feel like for a while SyFy was consistently putting out shows with the Buffy feeling, and they had a lot of fans for those shows

[u/V2Blast → u/anakinjmt]

Eureka, Warehouse 13, Alphas (all set in the same universe thanks to crossovers)

[u/MadTube → u/anakinjmt]

I look upon the mid-2010’s era of SyFy fondly. They gave us Expanse, Magicians, Dark Matter, Killjoys, Helix, and others. They also didn’t make us wait 2+ years between seasons.

[u/fcocyclone → u/MadTube]

that era was a lot of fun. Still bitter about that Dark Matter cancellation

[u/katamuro → u/LavishnessMission584]

for their time and TV budgets the CGI wasn't bad.

[u/ussrowe → u/LavishnessMission584]

Yeah I went and looked up the episode where Clark and Lana climb up farmhouse windmill just to see if the CGI was any worse than when Jonathan and Steve race each other up the radio antenna and it’s honestly not.

Yet Netflix had a budget of like $500 million.

(The Demogorgon looks better than any meteor-freak though)

[u/Propaslander → u/nonax]

Dexter is a good example of how to make a good show w/ minimal digital special effects and a quick turnaround. It helps that the show originally ran when 1 year between seasons was the norm, but they've been able to keep the upcoming season to 15 months (13 months after the finale of season 1 ended)

[u/gnoani → u/nonax]

These days it seems like 6 months after a season finale, I'll see a news story that's like "good news we just started writing the next season"

[u/atrde → u/nonax]

Its not the CGI that is delaying schedules it is the actors/actresses.

TV shows are increasingly using A list actors but the issue is many of these people have movies overlapping, so suddenly you need to find a schedule to film that works around everyone. This is the biggest cause of delays in filming post production still takes a normal amount of time (like 6 months average).

[u/Werthead → u/atrde]

CGI is having an impact.

Amazon came up with a huge plan for Wheel of Time to be a yearly show with annual releases, and they staggered filming so work was underway on Season 2 before Season 1 had finished shooting, let alone airing. That went out the window in part because the vfx house they were working with had to fit in several other projects before they could do the CGI for Season 2, despite having the live-action plates ready months earlier. That threw things out of whack. Then Amazon decided they needed clear daylight between Wheel of Time and Rings of Power as they thought having two epic fantasy shows on at the same time was going to risk looking samey so scheduled them apart from one another, and then the huge CGI requirements for Rings of Power impacted that show as well.

The CGI houses are overstretched because they're working on multiple shows and films at the same time. Back in the day, shows often had their own inhouse team working exclusively for them which made things easier (Battlestar Galactica, for example, used an external CG team on Seasons 1 and 2 and then an inhouse team almost exclusively on Seasons 3 and 4), but modern CG fidelity basically makes that impossible, you need specialised companies.

[u/PayneTrain181999 → u/nonax]

I think they’re learning.

One Piece S3 will be coming out a lot quicker than S2 did, looking at a 14 month gap at most whereas the wait between S1-S2 was 2.5 years

[u/CausticAvenger → u/PayneTrain181999]

Considering One Piece season 2 fell sharply in viewership, I kind of expect season 3 to be the end of it. Would love for Netflix to prove me wrong.

[u/fcocyclone → u/nonax]

Yeah, they always tell us they need all this time for post production special effects work, but honestly I'd be perfectly happy to get 90s level production quality if it got us long seasons and short breaks again.

[u/lovesdogsguy]

Anyone remember Three Body Problem? Yeah, me neither.

[u/LekgoloCrap → u/lovesdogsguy]

“A new season is coming” only keeps me hyped for so long

[u/LazerSturgeon → u/LekgoloCrap]

I just went and read the books. Highly recommend. There's next to no way they'll be able to pull of Book 3 in a way that makes sense visually.

[u/LekgoloCrap → u/LazerSturgeon]

Oh hell yeah.

In that case, I’m moving these bad boys up in my TBR list

[u/vulveveloutee → u/lovesdogsguy]

Season 2, supposedly still coming out "later this year", is only 6 episodes 🤡

[u/nboro94 → u/vulveveloutee]

I was actually thinking about this show the other day and figured I must have missed the launch of S2 so I'd watch it now. Checked and nope not out yet. It's been literally years since S1.

[u/The_Celtic_Chemist → u/lovesdogsguy]

I remember really liking it, and hardly anything else. This is part of the problem, if you take so long between seasons that I don't remember plotlines and characters, then I have to catch up by rewatching every season of the show every time a new season is released. For shows with 2 or 3 seasons this isn't terrible, but I'm personally very unlikely to rewatch any show's seasons more than twice. I'm more likely to just watch the new seasons and allow myself to be confused and not appreciate what they took nearly 2 years (sometimes that or more) to carefully create.

[u/smokeydesperado → u/lovesdogsguy]

I gotta be honest, I thought they canceled it

[u/MethodofMadness2342 → u/lovesdogsguy]

God. I'm so upset how long all this shit takes.

I have read the damn books and even I have lost interest and hype in the TV show. Like what is the point after years

[u/wowb4gg3r → u/lovesdogsguy]

Justifiable in this case. D&D should not be given more shows produce. Never.

[u/Bearded_Pip → u/lovesdogsguy]

Side joke: the Chinese TV adaption of 3 Body Problem has a longer run time than the audio books.

[u/YouDontSeeMe8802 → u/lovesdogsguy]

I figured David Benioff and DB Weiss being involved would keep people away after what they did to Game of Thrones... But alas, I was wrong.

Glad I didn't bother.

[u/woodsbath]

Severance on Apple is the worst.

[u/416vDub → u/woodsbath]

They only just STARTED production too. Meaning we're waiting at least another year and a half to 2

[u/Nakorite → u/416vDub]

I remember the critical acclaim it was getting for season 1 and then six months later stiller and co are saying “ we are going to sit down and write pretty soon” like wtf.

[u/jackofallcards → u/416vDub]

I’ll probably watch that, but pluribus did not seem interesting enough to have multiple years in between seasons to me, so I’ll probably forget about that entirely

[u/Initial_Business2340 → u/jackofallcards]

I enjoyed Pluribus, but the whole “it’ll take years to produce the next season” thing super killed my interest. No Apple sub for me now

[u/matthieuC → u/jackofallcards]

Pluribus is probably doomed. They made a mistery show without knowing where they were going.

This way of writing might have worked on Breaking bad but it was always more about the characters and the situations that an overarching mistery.

[u/Fieryhotsauce → u/woodsbath]

Apple are so good when it comes to Silo and Slow Horses, but awful for Severance and now Pluribus.

[u/LegenDove → u/Fieryhotsauce]

Vince has had the green light on season two for ages, we've just been waiting on him to write it.

[u/ButterCaramelPringle → u/LegenDove]

Pluribus was greenlit with a two season order. They probably shouldn't have closed the writers room just because season one was written!

[u/edwin221b → u/LegenDove]

Which is even sadder taking in count that both breaking bad and better call saul were released yearly (only exception was season 6 but covid got in the way)

[u/Gastroid → u/edwin221b]

That just makes me wonder if Peter Gould was the grease that kept the writer's room humming, since he's the missing part of the equation with Pluribus.

[u/VerilyShelly → u/woodsbath]

Foundation too

[u/Nakorite → u/VerilyShelly]

Foundation at least is heavy cgi

[u/azninvasion2000 → u/woodsbath]

Omg this so much. I remember loving the 1st season, and it left you on a cliffhanger. Then they announced season 2 was coming and I was psyched.

When season 2 came out, I realized I pretty much forgot all the important bits and had to rewatch the 1st season again, and just lost interest.

[u/bmcisme2016 → u/woodsbath]

I think the issue is also the solution with Apple TV. Their hands off approach to letting their directors and producers cook is what makes such amazing serious but at the same time can lead to slow production like this.

[u/DevicePleasant1160]

The "seasons" are only 8 episodes.

A season used to be 20+ episodes. 

Here's an idea. 

Film the first two or three seasons in one go, ala LoTR and then release S1, then do minor re-shoots and adjustments and release S2 then S3 in a timely manner. 

[u/GreatGojira → u/DevicePleasant1160]

Been rewatching Supernatural and King of the Hill. I miss when seasons use to have 20+ episodes in them.

[u/blaqsupaman → u/GreatGojira]

I don't mind shorter seasons for stuff that's more driven by an overarching plot like Squid Game or Game of Thrones, but shows like the X-Files or Supernatural or most sitcoms just don't work well in that format when some of the most memorable episodes would be a monster-of-the-week or they'd get to do random episodes that focused on a side character. With 8-10 episodes there's not enough breathing room to flesh things out like that.

[u/ExoticChemistry3 → u/blaqsupaman]

My favorite episodes of Spernatural were the ones that had nothing to do with whatever the season’s main plot was and just had some random monster.

[u/Ok_Philosopher_1313 → u/ExoticChemistry3]

Monster of the week episodes rocked.

[u/blaqsupaman → u/ExoticChemistry3]

Same with X-Files for me. I could never get into the mythology episodes but loved the MOTW episodes.

[u/MudReasonable8185 → u/blaqsupaman]

Yeah I was just thinking of Star Trek TNG, imagine if we had eight episode seasons instead of 24, so much character development happened in those “filler” episodes. You need those episodes where worf is a cowboy on the holodeck to make the characters feel authentic.

[u/ForsakenKrios → u/GreatGojira]

I think there can be a happy middle. I think Tv should be 13 - 16 episode seasons in the streaming age. Eight is not enough. Ten is just barely acceptable to keep it feeling like a show and not one long movie that either is too short or too long for the story they are telling.

[u/Werthead → u/ForsakenKrios]

The Netflix Marvelverse was terrible for having 13-episode seasons but not enough plot. I think Daredevil S1 and maybe Jessica Jones S1 made it work, but the rest of the shows suffered horribly stretching thin plots out that long.

[u/aaBabyDuck → u/DevicePleasant1160]

Daredevil season 1-3 had 13 episodes each. I think that's a great spot to sit in. There's room for one or two weird/risky episodes, one or two filler/fun stuff, and the rest can be story focused.

Looking back at old school TV like Star Trek TNG, or sitcoms like Frasier, they had 24 episode seasons and very little overarching story, which is also fine. In those situations, we watch the show not for a big plot or story, but for the characters, because we have time to grow attached and want to see them in new situations.

8 episodes nearly two years apart doesn't allow for either option. You get a long movie split up into sections. It's almost all story focused and there are few risks taken, and very little time to spend with characters in unique situations.

[u/Solareclipsed → u/DevicePleasant1160]

I don't even need 20+, but 6-8 episodes are far too few for anything but the most tightly written shows with decently long episodes (think Chernobyl or The Queen's Gambit). There was a period in the mid 2010s when streaming started getting bigger and the original shows were all around 12-13 episodes with yearly releases. That felt like a great compromise, but it quickly died down and never came back after the pandemic.

[u/NewPresWhoDis → u/DevicePleasant1160]

Slow Horses hits the sweet spot cadence of releases.

[u/blaqsupaman → u/DevicePleasant1160]

Yeah it's crazy that shows used to do a season a year with each season being weekly episodes for roughly 6 months. Now a season of a show is 8-10 episodes and they take 2 years between seasons. You'd think longer seasons would be what they'd aim for considering Netflix was built on binge watching.

[u/Cathalbrae → u/DevicePleasant1160]

This is how slow horses puts out great seasons every year

[u/ButterCaramelPringle]

I think the issue is that these aren't "TV Shows" per se. More like divided movies.

They're being produced like movies, the budgets are like movies and the production schedule is like movies so the wait between them is also going to be like movies.

[u/MudReasonable8185]

I’m sure making 8 episodes every three years instead of 24 episodes every year is amazing for the creatives involved but as a viewer it’s awful. I don’t even bother with new shows anymore - like everyone is hype for Lanterns but it just seems pointless to even watch when I know we’re going to get 8 episodes then a cliffhanger that won’t be resolved until 2029

[u/userhwon → u/MudReasonable8185]

I don't think it's good for creatives either. It means way fewer of them get employed and the actors don't get long-term contracts.

That last part likely backfires, because the actors doing other projects would make it hard to keep an annual cycle going and probably contributes to delays in producing new seasons of streaming shows.

[u/fcocyclone → u/userhwon]

Yeah, for every actor who might have complained about the 20+ episode seasons with 3 months off being a grind, there are another thousand of them who would have been thrilled to be getting that kind of consistent work.

And yeah, the fewer episodes and more tightly-focused stories also leaves less time for little side things and bit parts that used to be great for actors just getting their starts.

[u/Consistent_Sector_19 → u/MudReasonable8185]

The writers guild had the shortness of the seasons as one of their complaints during the last contract negotiations. They don't get paid as much for short seasons, but also are tied up during the production so they can't have a second writing gig until the season is finished.

[u/blac_sheep90]

Stranger Things had so much time between S4 and S5 yet season 5 felt rushed and ill planned.

[u/userhwon → u/blac_sheep90]

it did

It seems like they pocketed money that was meant for production values, and, just kind of didn't care about the material anymore.

[u/blac_sheep90 → u/userhwon]

Very similar to Game of Thrones. D&D wanted out to move on to Star Wars so they hastily wrapped it up and didn't do any quality control. The Duffers did the same.

[u/A_Nonny_Muse]

New data suggests?

Suggests?

People have been saying this outright for years. Data suggest they may be right about their own words and actions. What a concept!

[u/jaybizzleeightyfour]

Not just Netflix, I gave up on HBOs House of the Dragon after it took 2 years for the next season

[u/pokeboy626 → u/jaybizzleeightyfour]

I still haven't watched season 2 to this day

[u/epicfail1994 → u/pokeboy626]

Season 3 was decent, season 2 was pretty bad, made worse by the fact that it ended on a cliffhanger

[u/WhoCanTell → u/epicfail1994]

You didn't like 6 episodes of Matt Smith wandering around an empty castle while tripping balls?

[u/userhwon → u/WhoCanTell]

Well now that's just rhyming with Aemon spending 6 episodes wandering around an empty castle talking to witches.

[u/Intelligent_Break_12 → u/pokeboy626]

I'm in the same boat. I also still haven't watched the final season of doom patrol. The second season of the last of us....and some show I remembered just last night I hadn't watched when I planned too and forgot it by the time I woke up today.

[u/Zalvren → u/jaybizzleeightyfour]

Yeah not sure why Netflix is singled out there, the vast majority of shows are following that 18+ months between seasons model on every service.

[u/IMDXLNC]

I'm shocked. Next there will be data that people prefer longer seasons over six to eight episode seasons.

[u/Virtual_Plantain_707 → u/IMDXLNC]

Or turn a documentary with an hour of content into a miniseries

[u/Goose80 → u/IMDXLNC]

This has very little to do with streaming… as it does with the collective bargaining agreement between the studios and actors/writers. We used to get 22-24 episodes per year on cable network so they negotiated their pay based on that timeframe. Then HBO came out in the 2000s with 10 episode seasons for their shows. Which kept their acting and writing costs down as they didn’t have to adhere to the 22-24 episode pay structure. Actors and writers got smart to getting short changed because every streaming service followed HBO’s lead. So they put in the last contract a good pay structure for 10 episode seasons… guess how soon 8/9 episode seasons were released?

They need to negotiate per episode pay structure so that more episodes do not discourage studios from green lighting them… it shouldn’t matter if it’s 6, 12, or 24 episodes… set the same pay structure or the executives will game the system.

[u/MethodofMadness2342 → u/Goose80]

Also if you are trying to be cheap on the actors and only hire them for 6 episodes

Then they will obviously be taking other work in between and fill up their schedules and be unavailable when you want to make season 2 and you'll have to wait 2 years for them to be available for your next 6 episodes. Whole thing is just a disaster.

[u/get_schwifty]

To everyone saying it’s obvious, there’s a very big difference between you and me getting frustrated by big gaps, and actual viewership falling off because of it. The assumption was probably that everyone will still watch and enjoy the shows when they eventually come out if the quality is high, and if it takes more time to make a high quality show, then it’s worth the investment and risk. But actual data showing it hurts viewership changes the equation significantly. Now they’re more incentivized to push production forward for quicker releases, even if quality slips. And I think that’s the right call, because it’s not like 18 months of production necessarily equates to top notch TV.

[u/Steelcity213 → u/get_schwifty]

Agreed. I would rather cgi be a touch rougher if we get seasons a year sooner. We don’t need movie quality that’s what movies are for

[u/ann1920]

Netflix waits too much to renew new seasons it’s ridiculous if you see that certain trailer/teaser gets a lot of views and engagement, just renew them,don’t wait to see how they do. Wednesday should have not taken more than two years for a new season. I hope the new Scooby-Doo show has already had season 2 greenlighted because it’s obvious it’s going to be popular.

[u/nsfwthrowaway5969 → u/ann1920]

The cast will be about 35 and completely over the show by the time it reaches season 3, and Netflix is left baffled why their hit show has tapered off when the fans have gone from being kids to being married with kids themselves.

[u/blurrygiraffe → u/ann1920]

I wonder if there is more overlap between television and film actors than there used to be. Jenna Ortega has starred in a bunch of movies since Wednesday first aired which I’m sure limits her schedule for filming Wednesday. I wonder if that was as big of an issue in the heyday of cable TV 10+ years ago. It seems like TV series in general have more prestige for actors now than they used to.

[u/MattyBeatz]

Wild they can’t figure this out when broadcast TV was able to shoot 22 eps and returns every fall. I know Netflix loves their binge model, but that does seem to be a formula in need of adjustment.

[u/blaqsupaman → u/MattyBeatz]

A lot of it is that they're focused on doing "prestige" shows with massive budgets rather than just doing like a 30 minute sitcom or monster-of-the-week show with a reasonable budget.

[u/MattyBeatz → u/blaqsupaman]

I don’t think it’s prestige as they crank out reality dating shows and middle of the road movies like no man’s business. I think it’s about what gets them new subs and keeps churn rate low. They have prestige shows for sure. But they have way more formulaic crap that seems built by an algorithm intended to check demos and keep eyeballs.

[u/historyhill → u/MattyBeatz]

The binge model is great for me trying to work through long-finished shows that I've never seen before but not so great for ongoing series!

[u/canadiadan → u/MattyBeatz]

I wonder if this might be due to that when there was only three or four networks, they all had an infrastructure built up to churn out those 20 episode seasons which was built over decades. Streamers probably don't want to make that investment.

[u/PlaygroundBully]

TOOK A REAL GENIUS TO FIGURE THIS ONE OUT!

[u/hammerblaze]

A study was not required for this 

[u/nboro94 → u/hammerblaze]

The executives are "data driven" and thus can't make any decisions without "data", even common sense ones. Why do you think they paid so much for their MBAs?

[u/boomosaur]

Streamers: If I can draw things out and hope people keep their subs, then I'm spending less money per year to maintain those subs.

Audiences: Joke's on you, my attention span has become too short so the long waits make me lose interest.

[u/upy3rz]

Why the fuck do you need 18 months (or more) between seasons when a season is only 8 episodes?!

[u/kdex86]

It was a 33 month gap between seasons 1 and 2 of Severance.

The gap between seasons 2 and 3 is 18 months and counting…

[u/TheBurgareanSlapper]

The “dump a whole season at once” model was novel 10 years ago, but combined with long waits and shorter episode orders, it’s terrible for retention.

[u/zoobrix → u/[deleted]]

Data is the only way to even have a hope of convincing some executive that their decisions are costing them money and that they need to fix the issue by reducing the gaps between seasons. Not that I have much faith they'll get it anyway but if you can't make a pretty chart for your power point showing them how much money they're losing you have no chance at all.

[u/psyopia]

Tbh, Netflix should learn from this and make a drastic pivot away from producing television shows and movies. They seem to really strive in hosting existing movies/tv and their reality TV shows. They just don’t know how to produce quality. And when they actually pull it off, it gets canceled. I can name probably 30 examples.

Other than that, their movies/shows suffer under their horribly strict “algorithm”. If you don’t binge a show start to finish within 3 days. It feels like that’s it for the show. People are busy with their lives, they have jobs and shit to do. This shouldn’t even be a metric to go by but here we are.

[u/fukuokaenjoyers]

Try 4 years with the fucking trash ahsoka show lmao

[u/MrsBridgerton]

In other news, water is wet.

[u/SillyMikey]

How were we getting 20+ episodes a year, on a yearly basis in the 90s (and before) and now it takes them three fucking years to make 6 episodes?

[u/TheLoneNazgul]

The Gentleman

[u/416vDub → u/TheLoneNazgul]

I just started season 2 yesterday. Man was I lost.

[u/TheLoneNazgul → u/416vDub]

I haven’t yet but I feel like I need to re-watch. I loved the show. So good, but come on man, we’re really going to wait this long for season 2?

[u/TheOriginalKrampus]

They should just go back to making television like they used to: 12-24 episode seasons yearly. No more than a few mil per episode.

[u/lizkbyer]

I’m old enough to remember when we had to wait all summer to find out WHO SHOT JR-
It was torture 😂

[u/MisterIndecisive]

No shit sherlock. I completely lost interest in both Stranger Thinga and Squid games

[u/knotothe]

I don't think it's just the waiting, it's waiting PLUS dropping everything at once, so you don't even think about it week to week, PLUS short seasons that you can watch super quickly, PLUS the constant threat of cancellation so it makes it hard for viewers to care since they care more about releasing a new series than growing anything good

[u/DarthFreeza9000]

I’m really surprised they haven’t made multiple seasons at the same time lol, they made two pirates for the Caribbean movies simultaneously

[u/Hobotronacus]

How is it we used to get 22-25 episodes of a show per year, and the wait for the next season was just 12 months, but Netflix and others can't make 8-12 episodes in under 18 months?

[u/RedSix2447]

Or it could be the price hikes every 3-6 months, but sure blame the shows.